Malcolm Turnbull Wants You To Move House To Get Better Internet

Malcolm Turnbull is meant to be the man. He's the minister ultimately responsible for the National Broadband Network. So why did he jump on Twitter and bash someone for not being fortuitous enough to live in an area with decent broadband? It's smug, and wrong.

So what's he done?

Malcolm Turnbull went on Twitter yesterday and responded to a small business owner who was commenting about lack of access to communications infrastructure in her area.

Her name is Julia Keady, and she wrote:

Bought a house in Ocean Grove. No NBN. No Cable. No ADSL 2 or 1. Back to the dongle. Prehistoric. @TurnbullMalcolm. Not good enough! #nbn

Sure, Julia probably could have been nicer about her complaint, but nevertheless, she probably didn't expect the Minister for Communications to belittle her because of where she chooses to do business.

Wow.

Australia's a big place, and getting communications out to regional areas was always the plan of the National Broadband Network: to cut down the tyranny of distance to make Australia the smart country, but instead we're stuck in dumb fights with each other.

The tweet shows an odd two-facedness from the Minister, who usually proclaims himself as a man of the people

He'll stand up in Parliament and profess to be the man to get the job of the NBN done, unlike the time wasters in the previous government.

He put out a broadband speed test and report card for the nation, and pledged to install the new fibre-to-the-node National Broadband Network in the areas with the least amount of access. Presumably, Malcolm wants to be looking out for people like Julia in Ocean Grove.

But instead, we get petty insults traded between constituents and ministers online. It's rude, and out of touch.

Newsflash, Malcolm: not everyone is a dot-com multi-millionaire. Not everyone can afford to buy a house in Mosman and run a cable connection to our homes. Nor can all of us afford a decent wireless plan with adequate usage that can stand in for a wired broadband connection.

Abusing constituents and small business owners on Twitter isn't the way to get your message of progress out to the people.

We won't be reaching out to the Minister for a comment on this one. Who needs another meaningless sound bite, anyway?

Shape up Malcolm, your privilege is showing. [Twitter]


Comments

    He doesn't get it. Why should someone be forced to move to a broadband rich area to get a decent connection?

      actually you're the one who doesn't get it. If she had been living there for years and years and she wanted faster internet. Yes she can ask for it and say stuff like "our area needs infrastructure"

      But she was moving house, and apparently the internet is really important to her. So why did she deliberately choose an area with no decent broadband access? If cafes are important to me, then when moving I would look for areas with great cafes. If hospitals are important to me (let's say I have a long-term illness that needs regular checkups) then I would make sure the area I move in to has a hospital nearby. If skating is important to me, I'll look for skate parks etc.

      She can't blame the government for her own stupidity.

        It was a stupid choice, but this is Australia and we don't really have much choice. Either way, her point still stands.

        Ocean Grove has DSL. they ran out of ports. She did her research. Stop defending bastardy

          wwwyourbroadbandcomau would have told her whats available. She didn't do her research. Stop defending the stupid bird trying to blame her stupidity on others.

            actually, that site says that my grandparents house has access to DSL, but I know for a fact that there are no available ports (something which even the Telco's don't know until they physically send somebody to do the connection), all the research in the world can't save you from the uselessness that is the Australian Telecommunication industry.

              However it does say that there has been no ports for her area since 2012. Research would have told her everything she needed to know.

            You could not be more wrong and misinformed if you tried. The best you can get when buying a house is a generic answer (broadband is available yes/no). Then once you move in and install a phone number you formally apply (you cannot do this until you have the line). It is at this stage they then advise whether there is port capacity at the exchange. It sucks but that is how it works.

            The yourbroadband site is a unreliable as it uses a generic average number for the suburb then pretends that this number is specifically for your house. Here is a quote about the site from the recent Senate Committee hearing as provided by witness Dave Abraham: "I bring two tests: both McMasters surf club and Killcare surf club reportedly have 17 megabits per second potential speed for their download capacity over ADSL2. I can report from committees of both those clubs that there is no broadband infrastructure in those two surf clubs, zero, nothing. "

            To use your eloquent phrase, the "stupid one" certainly is not the businesswoman who contacted Malcolm. Ignorant people should be wary of using phrases like that - it often ends up being unintentionally ironic.

              So you're saying that yourebroadban is wrong? It says there are no ports, she moves in and there are no ports. Yep, the site is way off. Couldn't be more wrong.

              You know I didn't see any speed estimates on the port availability site.

              Perhaps if the regulatory environment made it worthwhile for ISPs to construct new infrastructure it would be built.

                In all honesty, ISPs build infrastructure where it is profitable to do so. So yeah, they'd build infrastructure in the metro areas and compete with each other. Chances are they wouldn't see a large potential profitability in rural and regional areas, however.

                  So you agree that the regulatory arrangement creates a condition where competition is discouraged, resulting in over supply in metro areas and under service in regional areas.

            Says I should be getting 8-12 Mbps, i get 4.

            stop trying to defend a pathetic situation we are in for internet in Australia.

            I currently have ADSL, I sync at ~17Mbps. I put my address in, and the response is:

            Completed Looking up your address
            Completed Determining your Exchange
            Completed Determining your DA
            No Number Checking your phoneline
            COMPLETE

            Now what?

          I'd guess that should be her reply to his question then.

          It is actually a major issue, testra has had an upgrade freeze on for the past 5+ years ever since the nbn was announced. Several places cannot get even a phone line as testra refuses to run copper etc.

          So as capacity outgrew exchanges and even backhaul became and issue testra gave a great big FU to everyone. The lack of ports is directly to do with this problem.

            That is complete BS. go to Telstrawholesalecom then adsl and then plans. There are a heap of links to all manner of adsl info, including upgrades, new Dslams and even Tophat sites which was only completed partway through last year.

            Optus on the other hand has had a freez on all fixed line development for close to 10 years since the ACCC denied SingTel's demands for regulated access to Telstra ADSL2+ ports.

          And if Labor had won the election, she'd still be in the exact same situation.

            Because no construction is quicker than slow construction, right?

              No. Because Ocean grove wasn't even on the 3 year rollout map.

          @TurnbullMalcom Just curious: - how is a communications minister not aware of the pitfalls and inaccuracies preventing securing a reliable internet connection, no matter how much research you do?

          Maybe instead of being a glib asshole he could look into improving the reliability of researching just how fucked you are for Internet in various areas that service providers claim they can 'probably' service you. (If the line quality isn't too low and 'not worth upgrading'. Or if the ports on the exchange aren't full, but they won't tell you before you move there. Or if the wireless isn't in an un-mapped black spot.)

        My guess is your a bloody moron, or still live at home with your parents, do you have any idea how painful looking for house can be?
        There is so many things you have to take into consideration, and the entire point of the NBN was to enable EVERYONE access to faster or currently none existent connectivity to make our country better for businesses and families.

        Turnbull is a fucken idiot who needs his head pulled out of his ass.

          I know that Australia isn't exactly an intellectual powerhouse on the world scale, but you can do your part to make us not look quite so bad by not making substantial spelling and grammar errors in posts where you decry others as morons or idiots.

          Thank you for your cooperation.

          Last edited 21/03/14 2:04 pm

          Exactly.

        She can't blame the government for her own stupidity.

        She isn't stupid. The infrastructure is.

        We're not that silly! But no ports left in exchange. No incentive for telcos!

          Oh c'mon, it's like moving to the Simpson desert and wondering where your 1/2 hourly bus service is. She's chosen to move to a beachside resort area far, far, far from Melbourne and then whinges about it being someone else's fault when she knew full well there were limited broadband options. Why not beat up Optus while you're at it Julie because no doubt it'll be Telstra dongles down there. Middle class self entitled whinger.

            So because she chose to live away from a Capital city she shouldn't expect any Internet access?

        As a small business owner whose entire operation relies on a solid internet connection I can tell you this - even though my business is hugely successful I can't afford for internet connection quality to be the only factor when deciding to move. There are a ton of other factors and when looking at locations I was put in the position of choosing between places a business my size can't afford and places where I had to compromise on serious aspects.
        Luckily my current location worked out. I can throw a tennis ball at the exchange from where I'm sitting, but I've almost outgrown this location and everywhere I look I'm either getting an ok place where I'd have to run off a couple of wireless connections, places I simply can't afford and places where I can get a good location but barely meet any of my other requirements.

        This is what makes his comment so frustrating. Saying this to a small business owner is on par with telling someone whose car just broke down to get their butler to bring over one of their other cars.

        Last edited 21/03/14 12:36 pm

        Seriously though, where can you find out what broadband is available to you? You can get estimates from broadbandexchanges, but in reality no Telco will tell you until you have moved in, got a phone connection, and they can test the line. Last house I lived in estimated 8mb ADSL2+, all I could get was 1.4mb, my internet was more useful in the early 00's. There aren't enough houses across the road from exchanges for everyone to move within a block radius of them, and a fair whack of exchanges are oversubscribed anyway.

        When looking for this place I asked all the real estate agents about internet, they didn't know, and really, they don't have to care, because they know they'll rent it out no matter how good or crap it is. Luckily my new place is literally across the road from the exchange, but it's still not even base NBN level good.

        Last edited 21/03/14 12:31 pm

        when you move house you have no idea whether or not you can even get the internet at your new place, maybe there are no more adsl connections left, maybe your phone line is too degrated to to use adsl.

        There is no way to know if your landline can support the internet untill you sign up for it and find out that it cant

        Please die in a car fire...

        I moved my business to an area that had the NBN underway, they were working on the very street, they stopped the day after the election and are not coming back. I'm stuck with a business that can't really work with the BB that is currently available. It isn't stupidity, there was a system in place, with hard dates and schedules, we built businesses accordingly, they ripped all that up and replaced it with...nothing.

          All the cable is laid out to my street, but connections never happened because the LNP won the election. I find that painful enough as a resident, must be infuriating when it actually effects your income and smooth operations of your business.

        Internet is important to me. But my last move wasn't exactly flooding me with housing options. With 4 weeks notice, I literally had 3 days left before I found something. It was nearby to my old place, same exchange, walking distance to the city, and in an established suburb.

        But there's no DSL on my side of the street. The only options I have are Bigpond cable or mobile broadband, and I have a dispute with Telstra so the cable option is out. The Top Hat project to add more DSL ports didn't reach my side of the street. Labor's NBN was already going to take over 5 years before even looking at my place, let alone installing anything. I can get dial up, but the single cable path is already taken by the downstairs tenant. I can't move because I have young children, shared custody arrangements, a huge debt I was left as a parting gift from the ex-wife, and affordability of anywhere else nearby that is even remotely suitable is not going to be an option.

        Tell me how stupid I am to move into a house without internet connectivity. Go on, just try it.

        Most down votes ever? Do we have a new winner?

          Those upvoters must be feeling quite lonely about now...

        Sometimes, you dont check these things, and by happen stance, you move into a crappy area, where the infrastructure is not as good as it should be.

        Example: I live near Panorama in Adelaide, SA. The average value of a house in this suburb, is 950-1250k. Now, you would *EXPECT* there to be decent infrastructure here right? We didnt get ADSL 2, until 2 years ago - and even then, our exchange is 5km away. If that's good enough standard for Australia, then you should probably leave, because the rest of us in this country want progression.

        Thanks.

        Turnbull was only asking a question. He wasn't being rude or insulting, just asking a valid question. Some here seem to think it's the Lib's fault that we don't all have FTTH *now*.

        The same thing happened to me in 2011 although I was renting. On a dongle for 12 months until I could move again. I didn't throw a tanty at Conroy. It wasn't his fault.

        Mind you, Labor took thousands of dollars out of our money to supply my 86 year old mother with an NBN connection. Too bad she doesn't have a computer...

          So the next person who lives there can run a business from home, or participate in distance education, or do many other things with it that we cannot imagine yet. Plus it no doubt will make the house sell faster and may even add capital value, as there is now a digital divide of FTTN/FTTP.

          Nielson's law states bandwidth demand grows by 50% per annum, it has been correct for the last 30 years. So within 10 years bandwidth demand will be at 115Mb. Malcom's Fraudband is obsolete already.

        This just shows how out of touch the priveleged elite of the Coalition are.

        The arrogance shown toward the average Aussie battler is breathtaking.

        He might as well have said to her:
        "You are not one of my wealthy mates so fuck off."

        Last edited 21/03/14 9:17 pm

        we're not talking outback. this place is 100km from melbourne. https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-38.2652843,144.5380977,12z

        When i moved house recently from one rural town to another telstra not only couldn't tell me if i'd be able to get an adsl connection, they lied to me, they told me that my existing supplier internode could not get a line whereas they could, they bulshitted me about extra ports being available for business customers, about 2 exchanges when there was one... And the official sanctioned way they provide ports that become available - is it first come first served? Do they supply those that have been waiting longest? Nope its a crapshoot: phone up, they said, every now and then to see if anything had become available. Shit, round here they don't even know what infrastructure they've got. When I first moved to the region I had my line confirmed, and the day of installation was told there was no room on the exchange and I'd have to wait 6 months for an upgrade. I would guess they dont even know what gauge cable they have and how old it is.

        Ocean Grove has no ports available, something she would not have been told until she applied for adsl. Does the minister even know about Port availability lotto?

        So many things in Australia are prehistoric.

        I moved to an area for NBN stage 2, then dickheads like you voted idiots #1 out, and voted idoits#2 in. Now if I want NBN, I have to move.
        WHO DO I BLAME?

        I recently moved from Brisbane south to Brisbane east expecting to have numerous options for internet access. Found that telstra is my only provider in the area, & that I had to use a dongle to begin with, as, like Julia, there were no ports available. As I was moving within a capital city, I did not think I should have to investigate the availability of internet before purchasing in the area. Cost for internet 3x what it was my previous home.

        All missing the point
        I live in 2014 in Sydney Australia
        therefore I expect my provider to have service in my area
        because that is what I pay them for
        WHEREVER my house might be
        dig?

      Time wasters in the previous government? MPs weren't actually installing the NBN themselves and the rollout was happening. Now, nothing is happening and there is NO NBN! There are bits and pieces of a third rate, third world, network that will wind up costing more than the NBN ever would have.

        Having been to places where the weekly wage is $50 Australian, they have better internet than us.

          You are correct dknight1000. Rwanda, Nigeria, Kenya, Morocco, Tunisia for example all have FTTP, as does much of North Africa now, Asia, the EU and the Americas. NZ just did a cost benefit analysis and switched their roll out to FTTP also.

          But at least Australia is not alone; the highly progressive Islamic Republic of Iran is also forging ahead with FTTN.

      Sadly with the digital divide only being made wider by the Abbot government, this is a future I foresee happening a lot...

    If Malcolm can subisidise a move - and get my boss to agree to teleworking or get me another job - in an NBN area, I'll take his side. Otherwise, that's a very stupid and exceedingly douchey comment.

    As much as I dislike how he put it, he kind of does have a point.

    Ms Keady was moving house. Clearly internet connectivity was important to her, yet she chose to move to an area without decent broadband access. I can't speak to the housing prices in Ocean Grove or her other reasons for moving there. However, it does stand to reason that if you care enough about something to complain about it online, you should care enough to do some research first.

    It's like people who move in next to live music venues and then complain about the noise. Do your research, make sure you know what you're getting yourself in for, and take responsibility for your own actions instead of whining for someone else to fix it.

      I agree with this. Sorry when doing my move I do research of where and what is available and one of the first things I look at is internet connectivity; give my ISP a buzz and judge it on that response. No internet no buy.

        this would all be well and good as an argument IF the assumption is she can afford a house in these areas AND we weren't aiming to improve infrastructure to ALL areas.

          Aiming to and completing are two different things though. Neither the Labor nor Liberal NBN plans would have given her broadband access in her new home right now. Turnbull's question is still valid in a time context - if people need broadband right now, availability/location is an unfortunate but necessary thing they would need to factor.

            Again, the assumption is that she could afford to buy in a connected area in order for this to be a fair statement from Turnbull. Even if he is correct, he cannot say this as a public figure. It was always going to backfire.

        Problem with that is that the ISPs tell you one thing, but that's all hypotheticals and then you find out what you're getting is actually far less to nil.

        No you dumb fucking pricks. The internet is like water. It should be available everywhere and not a factor that decides where people need to move to. The government and their pointless cronies can destroy entire communities if this is the case. People will move away and nobody will return and then the wankers will think that they can justify excluding these areas because, "nobody lives there".

          Get over it. We live in Australia and you should know that it's not perfect and availability isn't everywhere yet, so you simply accommodate with what you can at the time. You just don't go make a decision with one of your highest factors not being accommodated then expect change over night. Last time I checked also, the internet isn't like water, it's not mandatory in order to live.

        Just to comment, I recently moved, before I did I called all ISP's I could. All but the 2 major players told me they can't connect me. Optus said yes, the process started and then about 3 weeks later I got a call saying they can't actually connect because they don't have an exchange for my address.

        So Telstra was my only option, I called they and said yes because ports were available. Again the process started, I moved in, 2 weeks after that no internet and no update. I called them up and they told me that there were no ports and I had a 3 month wait for one. Apparently they couldn't add more ports to the exchange because the NBN was on hold and no work was allowed to be done to the exchanges.

        TL;DR
        Even if you do your research and confirm that internet is available, you won't necessarily get it.

        Have some balls and post without a guest account if your going to make a comment like that

        Wrong argument. Completely irrelevant. This is an infrastructure argument, yours is more of an "i like to differentiate myself from people by proving my superiority with condemnation of others" argument. Fact is, infrastructure is an issue. You claim it isn't and that there are magical places where all is available and affordable for everyone. Now, that doesn't sound true because it isn't. Just ignorance dude.

        Australia should just feel shame that their tiny pacific island neighbour of New Zealand has excellent fibre-optic cable coverage and full adsl coverage for 90% of the country. Australia should feel shame that the NBN if and when it is completed will already be orders of magnitude behind the current services that are available in other south east asian countries.

        Except my brother moved into a house and his ISP said yes Internet is possible and fast as did the Landlord, turned out when he'd signed the lease he couldn't get internet. Who pays for that? the Landlord, the ISP or the person who moves there.

      I live 8km from the Sydney CBD. when I moved in, we were supposed to have work started on the NBN within a year, and that was a selling point of the place.
      now that work has been cancelled, and there's evidence that its ever gonna happen.
      I'm sort of happy I'm just renting, because that backflip on infrastructure would surely have knocked a bit off the price of the place.

        well, as always you need to take into account possible government changes and what that might do to your local area. The area I live in now actually does have the NBN, when I initially decided to move here I thought, even if the NBN is cancelled because Labor loses power, it doesn't matter to me because I have other ways of going on the internet. So I moved in fully expecting no access to the NBN, turns out my area was too far gone that they had to complete it. Now I'm connected to the NBN and I have to say, for the extra $30 or so that I'm paying per month I can't see any obvious difference in speed. I only agreed to connect to the NBN because the rebate offer from the local land developer makes it cost me less than connecting to non-NBN plans. But since I can't see any noticeable difference, once my contract's over I'm definitely moving to a cheaper plan.

          Just let me get my crystal ball and check out what else they'll stuff up over the next 10 years or so then.

          If you're paying $30 more having to use NBN then you did before then I think you didn't do a good job of shopping around.

          my point is that there's more to any story than you can take from 140 charters on twitter.
          Turnbull would've been better off getting details before replying.

          Unfuckingbelievable - your moniker is about right; memememe. Sums up the attitude of pricks like Turnbull and his gang and also the type of self-interested, smug wankers like you who voted these clowns into power in the first place.

          Of course you can't see any NOTICIBLE difference.

          Google wont load faster to your eye, blog sites and forums wont be that much faster unless saturated with high resolution/high cpi photos.

          However when you live in a house with 4 other computer users, 1 person is a gamer, 1 person is a TV streamer, have Apple/GoogleTV, have people coming over and need bandwidth to use studies, VERY QUICKLY, the well runs dry. OF COURSE you arnt going to notice anything. This is the issue with Australia - IGNORANCE. Please, dont just post and say "WELL FOR ME, THIS IS THE CASE" Educate yourselves on teh working functions, and then put yourself in a situation of necessity, and *THEN* formulate your opinion. Youre bollocks mate.

          Five bucks says the majority of your content is served from foreign servers, which an NBN from either government wouldn't make a difference in speed changes.

          Try looking at your ping in a game server or something. A ping if 7 is nothing to scoff at.

          As for me, I will say this: When moving from small rural town to Ballarat. My housemate and I did immediately look into where the NBN was being rolled out and whether the change in government effected it or not. It did not and the rollout continues in the zone we opted to live in.

          The house is ratshit. It really is. But the internet should be pretty good in a few months.

      Part of the problem is that you do your research, you ask the telco if they can give you ADSL2 where you want to move to, they say yes, and then when you're actually there they say "oh no, looks like there's too much pair gain."

        Work for an ISP, we don't actually have an accurate response until a phone line is installed at the promise and we can perform an SQ on it (because ADSL is dependent on a phone line). If you move into a new premise with no PSTN, then you may be in for a harsh reality once you order an expensive new PSTN line connection and then try order a DSL connection on top of that.

        Unfortunately I've had to deal with quite a few people in this scenario, and I have no qualms bringing up in the conversation as to why NBN is so important, it removes this silly barrier and stops the dependency on location if you want internet.

        I had to move houses 2 years back due to financial issues, the only place we found suitable to our situation was a new premise further west, after we got the PSTN put in, it was quite depressing realizing that I was now stuck on ADSL1 speeds (150kb down, 50-100kb up).

        Last edited 21/03/14 1:38 pm

      I don't know Jono, I think we need to build skyscrapers at places where NBN is available to house everyone who wants NBN.

      I can understand your point, but I don't think the analogy to moving next to a live music venue holds. A live music venue next door is an environmental condition that I agree should be tolerated by any potential new neighbours, but many would argue (myself included) that access to decent telecommunications services is a right we should be guaranteed as citizens, much like access to health and emergency services ie. it goes beyond mere convenience.

      The deciding factor would be whether you consider wireless Internet access (which is often not too reliable or consistent) to be sufficient to satisfy that right.

        but it does hold though. When you're buying/moving into an area you need to do your research in terms of it's history and future development plans. If you don't, that's your own fault. If I buy 10 hectares in the middle of nowhere, I don't expect to be able to connect to the NBN or get mains power or get water and other utilities the normal way. I expect to have to use rainwater tanks and generators etc.

          Well, you're talking about the provision of essential services so I still don't see how the analogy to a nearby live music venue holds, but let's move on...

          Your example of buying 10 hectares in the middle of nowhere is, if anything, the exception that proves the rule. The point being that Keady wasn't moving to a remote location, so had no reasonable expectation that the provision of essential services would be problematic. Had she set up a homestead in the middle of the Simpson Desert, sure, we could throw up our hands and wonder 'well, what did you expect?' but she didn't...

          One last thing... It's interesting that you invoke the ability to connect to the NBN when considering the provision of a piece of rural land. The whole rationale behind the staggered roll out of the NBN was to provide services to rural areas before they were rolled out across metropolitan centres so if anything yes, you could expect to connect to the NBN, at least before the network was rolled out to Ocean Grove.

          Last edited 21/03/14 1:29 pm

          Do you actually realise how much legitimate information and how many real concerns you're ignoring and pretending just don't exist? Seriously, stop talking, it's embarrassing for you.

      She did her research and knew it had DSL. They've run out of ports (which is stupid in itself, ADD MORE). He may have a point but he doesn't have to be rude. I bet they didn't have this stupid bullshit discussion around this when they rolled a phone network out

      its 2014, you shouldn't have to check in a fairly urban area if you can get broadband or not before you buy a house. Do you have to check if you can get a phone? No of course not its ludicrous and its ludicrous in 2014 that a town 60 mins drive from Melbournes CBD a so called international city that you have to check. It should be seen as key public infrastructure that will benefit us in the future and its not because politicians don't have a clue about how much the thing is affecting and changing the global economy.

      "It's like people who move in next to live music venues and then complain about the noise" - no its not. You 100% know there is music going in. She checked she could get DSL before she bought it and then was told nope you can't because of ports

      Its ridiculous analogy.

      and for what its worth its PRETTY BLOODY HARD to check broadband availability in a place. THey can say yes and then say oh wait no there is no ports. Change the law that if they say yes then they bloody well need to make it happen, none of this no ports crap.

      And malcolms own search tool is useless and has been proven to be so numerous times recently.

      also do we really want to be in such a tech backwater that lack of bb being available is a reason to pass on a house

      LUNACY

      Broadband is key infrastructure like phones and will be for years to come. For some reason people don't get this. Imagine if this debate was happening when they built a phone system

      stupid, dumb and bullshit.

        > Imagine if this debate was happening when they built a phone system

        I read a copy of a speech a while back from the early 20th century when they were looking at building the existing phone network - the question being whether to go with the expensive, high grade, long term solution (i.e. copper) or something cheaper. The speech was basically saying that they should build for the long term, which is how it was voted in.

        So in fact this debate did happen when they built a phone system, and at the time they went with the technological equivalent of a fibre network (i.e. the best tech, not the cheapest tech.)

      The difference being if I move in next to a live music venue I can actually find out what nights they play before I move in. If I move into an area with ADSL, I can't find out no more ports are available until I have a phone line connected and the line tested.

      You can't even fucking test 100% for ADSL2 unless there is an active phone line. Even if there is ADSL2 in the area chances are it's so fucking congested there isn't any ports available anyway! So it is a total cop out and you are obviously just some liberal loving moron.

      No, jono, the point is this: it's 2014, in Australia, a prosperous, first-world nation. There shouldn't be -anywhere- you can't get broadband, if only basic ADSL. You shouldn't -have- to research whether this basic civic amenity is available. You should be able to assume it is, and you should be right, and you shouldn't have to tolerate a lecture from some privileged dickhead who (a) should know better and (b) is responsible for the problem in the first place.

      @jono_hayward here's a test for you. Randomly pick an address off a map. Then ring telstra or telco of your choice and ask what the Adsl options are for that exact address. After a few weeks of stuffing around come back with an answer. Here I'll save you the trouble. "Adsl is available in that area but we are unable to confirm if we can connect you until we have connected your phone at that address, there is room available and have a technician test the line." I have a couple of friends who have been though this process and have spent a couple of hundred bucks each time only to find out there is no room to accommodate Adsl on that line, well they can if they go on the waiting list... maybe... sometime.... no given time frame. Of course because the telco connected the phone line as required to get information regarding Adsl availability, there is no refund option available without a lengthy fight.

      Last edited 22/03/14 3:24 am

    Is it possible Turnbull actually is curious? That maybe he isn't "belittling" Keady, but is actually trying to get inside her head to understand that yes, sometimes it is important to have a decent internet connection where there is none, instead of just moving to where there is?

    I don't know, I just see that particular tweet as needing to be interpreted with tone, and there is no tone on the internet.

      i think its pretty ridiculous that you should pass on a house because of lack of BB if everything else is right.

      he doesn't seem to get that its his job to ensure australia has a world class telecommunications infrastructure which right now it is not.

      If read as a legitimate question it makes him come out worse. Anyone in his position should know the methods of testing internet availability before purchasing a house are extremely flawed and at best unreliable. I'm not going to pin that on him or the ISPs but it's a question that the Minister of Communications should, and I'd wager does, already know the answer to.

      If he was genuinely curious he would've just asked a question, rather than phrasing it like "if it's so important, why did you do the opposite".

      Everything that comes out of a politician's twitter (or indeed mouth) is 100% publicity and point-scoring; this is no exception.

    I know I'm going to get downvoted to hell, but please hear me out.

    This is very similar to people who buy near a landfill site and complain about the smell, or buy near the airport and complain about the noise. Buying in a suburb with no schools with the intention of raising a family, or buying out in the bush and being annoyed because your lost your house in a fire.

    If she bought out in Ocean Grove and wanted internet she should have researched the options available out there before moving, not moving and complaining later... The same process I am going through looking for my first home.

    I will agree though that the manner of Malcolm's reply wasn't very good, it does come off as quite arrogant and rude... Not everyone can be so picky about where they move (maybe she's moving out there for reasons out of her control, we don't know based on a tweet), but I feel like if you didn't do your research before making the decision to buy out there that's no-ones fault but your own.

      I totally disagree, In this day and age in a first world country we should not even have to put getting a decent internet connection into the equation when choosing a home. It should be there like any other utility. Also, there is still no guarantee that even if you do a search to see if an ADSL service is available in the area that you will be able to get a connection. I had that problem with my place in Woonona. This is under 10km from Wollongong you would think there would be a decent internet service?
      I got connected ok when I rented but when I bought in the suburb I was told that there wouldn't be a problem shifting my connection. Then when I moved I found out there was indeed a problem. Eventually I was told that there was no ports at the exchange. I was also told there is no way for them to know that until they actually try and move the connection. So even though my suburb is meant to be able to have ADSL there was no way for me to get a connection and no way for me to know that until I tried.
      Turnbull's response smacks of rich white male privilege and highlights a huge problem with modern politicians especially those of the Liberal party. Their shear inability to understand the problems faced by those that are worse off then they. I would love to see these politician's live off a low income salary for a year and see what choices they have to make then.

      I'll repeat what I said above - this is Australia and options are limited. Our small population and metro city areas mean we literally have no choice most times.

        so it would be acceptable for regionals to not have a phone line because thsi si the comparison. Why in the time they built the phone was there not this bulslhit? because it makes sense to build it like it does now....

      More appropriate comparison would be moving to a home, located in a growing area, which lacks a sufficient sewage system for the increasing population and no obvious plans to upgrade it.
      Citizen: What the hell!? My new house is flooding with crap because the ancient sewage pipes can't handle current requirements!
      Government: Haha! Suck on this sewage pipe, prole! What, you just expect basic infrastructure to be provided by us!? Ha! Go take a shower.

      I don't agree. If you move next to a tip or an airport, you're essentially agreeing to deal with the downsides of that decision. You don't know whether she already knew that it was a downside and agreed to deal with it, but is just voicing a (honestly, pretty justified) complaint about the shithouse internet situation anyway. It's not as though she's gone "oh looks like this house was a complete waste of money because it has terrible net". I live in arse end of nowhere and get pretty decent net (1.5 megabytes per second). Ocean Grove is far more urban than where I live and it sounds like a load of bullshit that it has no broadband whatsoever.

      She has every right to complain, whether she knew about the situation previously or not. It's ridiculous. The point is not "don't like the slow net, don't move there". The point is that this is a problem that needs to be dealt with.

      Last edited 21/03/14 12:37 pm

        Yeah. This entire conversation just bogs it down on the same line of thinking as 'if you don't like the laws, move to another country'. The fact is the conversation that should be happening is 'a proper urban area doesn't have basic infrastructure available to all it's residents, not the advanced FTTH stuff, the basic connections you'd expect to get anywhere with power and pipes, what can we do about that?'.

        Last edited 21/03/14 2:14 pm

      It's not similar, because those problems would be reflected in the price you paid for it, and these things are clearly apparent through standard property purchase processes, such as having the land surveyed. This is not the case with Internet connectivity - property purchases do not require obtaining any information beyond the presence of telephone lines.

      read the other comments, its related to the port availability and its nearly impossible to tell until you move in, install and test the line
      not analogous at all to your landfill comment

      > she should have researched the options available out there before moving

      To quote The Register:

      The source of the first tweet, small business owner Julia Keady, has since blogged the following points:

      * Our research into Ocean Grove showed adequate broadband for our needs
      * When we called to connect our services, we were told there would be no broadband available to us. We did check prior to purchasing our house.
      * Telstra customer service said they would not be putting any more ports into the exchange due to the uncertainty brought about by the NBN

      So, ultimately a Telstra stuffup, exacerbated by policy changes.

      If you've ever worked in telecomms, you'll know that the words "Telstra" and "stuffup" accompany each other with disturbing regularity.

    wow Seriously stupid twit from Malcolm I know for a fact you can't even check for broadband until your in your house and the phone is connected with a number - there is no other way and then there is the issue the checks - one is done to the exchange only (which will give you a false positive) then another on the path to your house from the exchange - EG check your not on a DA/CMUX (Green box) and if ports are available. - I spent over along time in Port lotto wating for a port I started the "RIM port hell in new estate" thread on Whirlpool. Malcolm comment shows he as no idea what he's on about!

      actually, yes you can check for that. You're the stupid twit here. I checked my area for broadband potential before buying my land. All you have to do is go to the different telco websites. Or do a google search, it's as simple as that. Most telcos will tell you whether or not they cover a certain area or plan to cover it in the future.