Since the mass uptake of P2P file-sharing, Australia has been spared the individual piracy lawsuits that are voraciously popular in the US. Could this long-standing stay of execution simply be because copyright holders haven’t really bothered? A law professor from the University of Technology Sydney has told the ABC that there are no “legal reasons this approach couldn’t be taken here”.
The professor in question, Michael Fraser, is also the founder of Copyright Agency Limited and vice-president of the Australian Copyright Council. Both organisations, which are non-profit, look out for the interests of copyright holders.
… broadly speaking, if they [the copyright holders]provide enough evidence, it’s not unusual for courts to grant subpoenas so that more evidence can be discovered, so that people can start a [legal]case if they have the mind to.
Fraser speaks specifically of recent events relating to Exetel. It came to light that a company, called the Movie Rights Group, asked the ISP whether it would provide the details of some 150 users, if Exetel were subpoenaed.
Before you start burning your hard drives, Fraser is unconvinced individual lawsuits are the way to go, despite the barriers preventing them being thin to non-existent. He believes the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft (AFACT) and ISPs themselves, will eventually agree on a industry-wide approach before this happens.
Suing downloaders won’t solve piracy: expert [ABC News]
Perri
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 2:15 PMEveryone these days downloads movies, music, games and TV shows. If the downloader loves the media they’re more inclined to go to the cinema, go to a concert, buy certain games and purchase the a full TV series on DVD… and they would never get this profit if they weren’t exposed to it through P2P clients. On the other hand go ahead and sue everyone who downloads. One person will buy it, make 100 copies and sell for half the price of the original sale in a dodgy Footscray market stall. You know it, I know it.
Scoon
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 2:55 PM+1 million
Micky D
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 5:58 PMNot really. I haven’t been to a cinema for about a decade. I haven’t bought any music for about the same time. I am watching more tv series on my computer from downloads so I can avoid advertisements.
Perri
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 8:33 PMThat’s actually quite sad… and a poor excuse for laziness.
downloader
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 3:02 AMI would pay for every movie I download if it cost the same as a phone app on the market or app store. However, these guys try to gouge us with $30 per person for a movie or $30 for a CD. I can buy a computer game which entertains me for 150 hours for $35, or I can pay $30 for a movie which entertains me for 2 hours if i’m lucky. They’re ripping us off so I rip them off until their prices improve. Plus every movie I download at the moment is crap, the quality has seriously declined to the point it is a major risk to go to see a movie at the big screen!
Adrian
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 9:43 AMWhy is this sad and lazy? Just because he downloads his music and movies rather than buying it, doesn’t mean he is not partisipating in a normal social life. Just because hae has not been to the cinema for a while doesn’t mean he stays at home avoiding the world.
MotorMouth
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 10:33 AMGet real! The price difference is a small measure of the relative costs of producing a stupid app and making a feature film.
Who pays #30 for a CD? My biggest gripe with iTunes is that an album usually costs more than it does to buy the CD from JB Hi-Fi or even amazon.com. What’s really annoying is that we get 8c a song on iTunes (96c an album) but we make $1.20 per CD sold, regardless of the price paid by the buyer. SO not only is iTunes ripping you off, it is ripping off the artists, too. CD’s offer better value for everyone. P2P is stealing other people’s intellectual property.
Iain
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 6:50 AMWhether it’s sad or not, it’s the reality for most people. With the costs of living ever increasing, people are staying home and accessing downloadable content, the majority of which is pirated.
EckyThump
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 9:47 AMHow ridiculous, just because you get your jollies doing it your way doesn’t mean its what anybody else wants!
EckyThump
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 9:48 AM+1 cept I move mine onto a media player and watch em on the big screen! #]
MotorMouth
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 10:21 AMThat is absolute rubbish. The music industry has been completely and utterly gutted by P2P. Yes, the big record companies are still going OK but it is the grass roots independent labels, the labels that used to foster diversity and nurture talent, that are disappearing at an alarming rate. So now the big labels use things like X Factor to find new talent.
I’d suggest it is having a similar effect on the film industry. In Sydney, we used to have a network of independent cinemas – Valhalla, Mandarin, Academy Twin, Dendy – who only showed independent films that you would never see on the big screen otherwise. Now most of those cinemas are gone and the ones who are left survive by showing the same films as Hoyts and Village, with a smattering of foreign language films. Independent film-makers like Peter Greenaway or David Lynch used to release high quality, well funded films on a regular basis but you just don’t get those kinds of films anymore because the money is no longer there for those second and third tier independent films.
You guys sit there and say you’re sticking it to the big music and film companies but the fact is that those guys are untouchable and the people you are really hurting are the very people most of you would want to support. You only have to look at how homogeneous both industries have become to see how much poorer we all are, thanks in part to P2P.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I should mention that I am a copyright owner who has been totally screwed by P2P. Our independent German label has decided not to release any more stuff because it is no longer viable. Even though they have bands on their roster who can pull big crowds live (we even got to play at a big festival over there a few years ago), that no longer translates to sustainable album sales, either in physical CDs or digital (only around 10% of our royalties come from iTunes and other digital services).
Now, you can say that we can make money from playing live but the fact is that most of us cannot. Support bands often have to pay to do big tours and getting on the bill at a festival is only worth a few hundred bucks unless you are a headline act. 15 years ago I think I might have been able to sustain myself as a full-time performer/musician but today I can hardly even sustain it as a hobby, things are so bad.
Scoon
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 4:25 PMThis may be true, but how is going to see major movies or paying $30 an album going to fix this?
If it was not a threat to the big studios and they were indeed ‘untouchable’ then they wouldn’t be worried about p2p and wouldn’t bother going after people with lawsuits.
Antonia
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 10:29 PMI’d say that the network of independent cinemas in Sydney is disappearing because property developers are offering the owners of said cinemas buckets of cash.
Cheshire Cat
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 1:18 AMDistribution methods change. People need to chane with it. I gave money to the indie torrents film ‘the tunnel’ to support a new idea and still haven’t even downloaded my free legal film yet. Rack head by their own words sold less records for in rainbows etc….. But made more money.
Typewriter sale men cried too… Ever think we as society may have stopped valuing music as we once did because it is so freely available (on demand radio, YouTube etc)
Cheshire Cat
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 1:20 AMRack head = Radiohead. Stupid auto correct.
NattersOn
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 6:19 PMA simple fact throughout history is to adapt or die!
Unfortunately, alot of the media organisations which are closing their doors, have not rolled with the times and updated fundamental business operations and market distribution mechanisms. Instead, opting for heavy handed, often onerous ways to protect & control dwindling profits.
Additionally, feel the discussion around P2P being an immoral practice, which robs artists of their intellectual property (and profits) is misleading and incomplete. A difficult truth to accept may be that artists themselves and distributors (as can already be seen to a small degree) need to ‘compete’ by providing superior white-market products at more realistic prices. As afforded by low overheads of online mediums.
Unfortunately for artists, feel it is simply a case of P2P being an exceptionally easy and freely accessible medium, with great value add provided by an active global community with ratings & interactive comments, as well as centralised knowledge bases and access. I.e. a great product, where morality is not clear cut and is often vaguely considered where the old adage of ‘everybody does it, why shouldnt I?’ applies.
In summary, strongly feel artists should be paid for their work and that the current difficulties are simply a balance being fought over value. Use of online medium to offer a ‘better’ service and product which pays artists fairly for their contribution = winning?
P.S Not talking about proprietary fruit vendors or otherwise being the correct medium. Maybe there already is one. Dunno?
Cheers
Penmonicus
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 10:57 AMI’m sorry you feel that way sir, but at BigSound in Queensland recently, it was the Indie labels who were quite excited about the future of the music industry.
Plenty of musicians are breaking through, and plenty are out there making a living. Just because it’s [possibly] harder now than it was in the mid-90s doesn’t mean everyone else is to blame. It just means you aren’t doing it right.
Rappo
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 at 9:40 AM1. Release your own stuff, it’s not that hard now days.
2. It’s not surprizing people don’t respect copyright holders, as they don’t respect their customers. Sure a lot of artists are getting screwed hard by their publishers, but the publishers are screwing everyone, I guess you are the sorf who is in favor of extending copyright duration retroactively. If it weren’t for retroactive extensions I doubt the issue of piracy would be anywhere near as significant, as a lot more would be freely available. (Giz: could you do an article or something on what would now be public domain if not for retroactive extensions)
3. Price-fixing in Australia is horrible, Music, Games, Movies, we tend to pay twice the price, regardless of exchange rates.
Charge decent prices and stop changing the social contract (that’s what copyright is). If you release your own stuff you can keep 100% of the profits, heck release it for free on a website and make money on add revenue, or chare a reasonable fee, it’s just not that hard for indie’s anymore. (I’m not saying they can make lots of money, but if your art is only about the money then you are a sell out and your music probably sucks)
James Finnigan
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 4:32 PMAlso, copyright laws in the United States provide for statutory damages, whereas in Australia, copyright holders are only allowed to claim for actual loss suffered.
It’s not worth paying thousands of dollars in legal fees to go after someone who’s only downloaded a few movies; it’s much more in the copyright holder’s interest to sue people who distribute infringing material.
ThatIsRight
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 9:28 PMWhat is sad is the fact you assume he is lazy and he has no excuse. He might have health problems or something else that he has not explained. Please don’t be one of those trolls who always claim the worst of things.
Sean
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 7:53 AMPrecisely, this is the reason that it hasn’t been done in Australia; the inability to seek large punitive damages claims. They don’t want to go to the effort, cost and bad press of suing someone for $50.
It’s not due to any altruism, understanding or lack of desire on their part.
Brad
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 2:17 AMWhat are you basing this on? Section 115(4) of the Copyright Act 1968 (cth) clearly says the court may reward damages. Admittedly, I have not researched any case law, but it seems somewhat explicit.
Link: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s115.html
Aliasalpha
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 5:05 PMWant to stop piracy? Give people the same service that the pirates provide at a fair worldwide price without usage or regional restrictions.
As an example, the BBC could get a lot of money from me if they put up 350mb DRM free AVIs of Doctor Who the day it screens in England (or even the next day), I’d happily pay 2 quid per episode AND I’d buy them on DVD when available because I also like physical copies. As it is, they’re losing half the potential money they could make because they’re not providing the service I want. I want to give you my money BBC, make it happen & we can all be happier.
Cheshire Cat
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 1:25 AMIsn’t there a new BBC iplayer app?
Max
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 9:48 AMThat’s not as convenient as having an actual DRM-free file, which can be played on pretty much anything, rather than requiring an app, and requiring a constant internet connection to watch.
Penmonicus
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 11:02 AMThe problem with this is that they have existing exclusive agreements with distributors/channels all throughout the world. Every content maker will have to wait for their existing agreements to expire before they can start doing it this way.
Think about… Lost, for example. Whatever channel that was on here in Aus – how do you think they’d feel about their viewers being able to watch the program online, with no ads?
Shane
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 6:27 PMThe reason it happens here is simple we get jibbed in just about everything over here, From hardware to software we pay sometimes double the price even though our dollar has been above the US dollar in past months. And the other point is already mentioned, Why do we have to wait months or more to see the same episode of a series compared to US,UK etc etc
People are willing to pay if the price is reasonable, I have gone from buying copied games from dodgy stalls at sunday markets for $10 each to buying all legit games from a UK retailer for $40 each, That price is still under half price compared to any shop here and it includes free postage and like I said all boxed legit software!
P.S. Store is http://www.ozgameshop.com give them a go for PS3,Xbox,Pc,Mac,Wii,DS/3DS dvd and bluray and more
Yarr Matey
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 6:50 PMI’ve been downloading my TV shows for years, mainly because I can’t stand Australia’s delay in screening the shows, or having to put up with the ads. Saying that, I own a lot on DVD. I try to buy the shows I love, though will often keep my downloaded copies on my PC cos they’re easier to watch. I don’t pirate movies much, though I always go to the cinema to see the good ones when they come out, then patiently wait for them to come on Blu-Ray so I can enjoy them fully at home. I absolutely love music, my MP3 collection is about 10,000 strong, but I wouldn’t have anywhere near as wide a range/taste if I hadn’t pirated stuff. Many of my favourite bands I have seen live, both here and overseas and I have bought the CD’s of the bands who deserve it.
Essentially, if it werent for piracy, I would not know of as many TV shows or bands that I now love, and have spent money on to support.
That, and in the states they have things like Unlimited Netflix per month for $8, here we pay that for 2 overnight new releases from the video shop. That needs to be looked into as well.
DraftPunk
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 7:50 PMIt’s all about the price. Give me a reasonable price for anything and I’ll buy it. As others have said, the US has Netflix for $8 per month for unlimited streaming, and they were bitching about price increases, we have bigpond where it’s $6 for each new release movie! Games are twice the price here for no reason other than to price gouge us. The industry will need to pull their heads out of their asses and open their eyes before they get this right. They just don’t seem to understand their customers. It has nothing to do with people wanting to pirate content, it’s about paying what’s fair, and right now we are getting screwed. So why the he’ll would we play fair when they don’t?
Daffyflyer
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 8:49 PMIf I could get TV shows in HD, the day they air and advert free for a few bucks an episode, I would!
Since Steam came out I really haven’t pirated a game, except for in the case of games that didn’t supply a decent demo, and that was usually followed by buying it off steam if it was any good and binning otherwise.
Also since I found “Good Old Games” http://www.gog.com/ I don’t even have a reason to pirate old games that are hard to buy.
Give me cheap and easy digital distribution of all the media I want and I’ll happily drop money for every bit of it I consume.
wiz1974
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 8:16 AMwell said Daffy. I completely agree am in the same boat. I have bee ‘pirating’ stuff since the days of the Commodore 64 (early eighties for those not old enough to remember), but I have always paid for what I really wanted if I it was a reasonable price. These days it is very rare I pirate a game, simply because on steam I can buy the game at the same price they are charging in the states, or close to, and not feel like I am being penalised for being in australia.
Give us the media at the right price and we will buy it simple as that.
Duke
Saturday, October 8, 2011 at 9:41 PMThe arguments have all been heard before.
IF I did pirate stuff, It wouldn’t fill me with a sense of self satisfaction at sticking it to the man. It wouldn’t feel like I’m doing anything noble or even ethical. But at the end of the day when everyone else gets it for nothing and the means to acquire it are essentially anonymous, faster than any other method and ridiculously easy… the vast majority of us will do it (THEORETICALLY myself included). Doesn’t say much for 10,000 years of “civilization” does it :\
Thingo
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 12:04 AMHumans are 75% water (so some say) and like water we will find the path of least resistance. The App Store is a shining example of go with the flow. I’ve spent a fair bit of money on apps but not so much on movies and music. It has to be made easier than piracy. And by easier that includes price not just convenience.
Steve
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 12:32 AMThis kinda hits the nail on the head. If you don’t want people to pirate, make the legitimate option less of a chore than torrenting (which is so easy). People want to watch the newest shows while remaining up to date, release a subscription-based streaming service like Netflix with tv episodes being available just as they are in the US… Not being released half a year later on Foxtel.
So many people would cough up a $30 a month or so for this type of plan, because it’s easier than torrenting, peace of mind, and no guilt about pirating content.
Adrian
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 9:55 AMPay per view, The old video store did a roaring trade at floging rental movies at $1-5. With downloads the video store has become a relic of the past but the business is still viable for on line. My local library can distribute an ebook or audio book for a time limited period. Why can’t an online video shop do the same?
Ig
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 11:02 AMExactly. The record (movie) sellers have to realize that when they sell CD/DVD they don’t sell the content, but only the convenience.
They never did, in fact. Since the beginning of the recording industry anyone in possession of necessary technology could record (and own) any song for free off the radio or during a concert. The only reason people bought records was (and is) to avoid the hassle of recording and packaging.
Now with digital media, computers and P2P networks that hassle became very minimal, certainly less than the $30 the sellers still think they could charge for a disk. Their services are now simply not worth what they are charging for them, and no amount of copyright legislation and enforcement will change that fact.
Michael
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 1:03 AMMost of the shows I watch aren’t available on congenital media at appropriate times and iTunes is a complete ripoff here and its crippled compared to the US version.
For instance why can’t you get HD downloads of your content for your computer
Chris
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 6:15 AMSee, you would pay X dollars to have the episode up instantly or the next day but the networks won’t do that because they are paid more by advertisers, so you could maybe download it but it would probably have ads.
Vanessa
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 10:14 AMMaybe if everything wasn’t ridiculously overpriced in Australia, people would be more inclined to purchase rather than steal. Apple and Amazon are good examples of how Australians are charged in some cases twice as much as Americans. How about we all start addressing the serious issues?
Simon
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 10:23 AMI’ve just got back from living in the UK for 4 years and cannot believe how much we pay for stuff here! Appropriately I have kept my UK bank account going for the sole purpose of keeping my UK iTunes account!
JJJ
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 10:34 AMLet’s all try to remember how the cry baby corporate thieves put all the local live musicians out of a living when they first peddled their wares. Now we are doing the same thing to them, after decades of being gouged to keep executives not artists filthy rich. It’s called karma baby!!!! Sweet sweet karma!!!!
MotorMouth
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 10:35 AMJust so you don’t get the idea I am a lone, pissed off has-been, here is what Robert Smith from The Cure has to say – http://www.thecure.com/blog/default.aspx?nid=21082
Nicholas
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 2:42 PMWarning guys, all-caps ahoy.
I was going to read it, it might have been interesting, but nooo to all-caps.
Cheshire Cat
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 1:37 AMAnd now listen to Radiohead or nine inch nails? I think even page and plant had something similar to say about it all. And I like their music a lot more than the cures =p
What about girltalk or 2 many djs or the other wonderful mashup djs? I’ve seen “Rip! A remix manifesto” and he sure made sense in that.
Cheshire Cat
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 1:50 AMAlso the monetary premise of his little rant is flawed. Why should a song writer get an average wage for a few songs compared to the guy working the checkout for 8 hours a day 250 days a year? These two jobs aren’t comparable.
And if you can’t sell 2.5 million songs for 1cent a pop in a global market then it can’t be that good. People wouldn’t even think twice about paying for it if it was 1 cent a pop. They’d probably purchase a he’ll of a lot of music.
Dano
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 11:29 AMUntil they give us Hulu in Australia and Cheaper iTunes, I am going to continue to pirate whether they like it or not.
MotorMouth
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 12:24 PMHow is that fair to the artists who make the stuff? Just because you have a problem with iTunes, doesn’t give you the right, moral or actual, to screw over hard working artists who are being screwed even more by Apple than you. It is just a bullshit justification for stealing from people who deserve to get paid for their work as much as you or anybody else.
Cheshire Cat
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 at 1:19 AMJust watch American hulu via VPN etc. Then people like motormouth don’t have a leg to stand on.
I’m sorry but we live in a global society now. The fact that you offer it for free in one country now means it’s free for all. After all those countries/companies use free trade when it suits them.
If you want to wall off your product that’s fine. I think you’re stupid but that’s ok. If you offer it for free all over the place in a bunch of different formats then you can’t really complain at people for then accessing it for free.
chaoticlusts
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 5:51 PMI’ll add another +1 to the statements of ‘the second we get access to netflix or one of they’re similar performing competitors I’ll sign up’ I’m aware they aren’t over here cause sorting out IP is a nightmare, but at least in regards to tv shows it does present an odd situation.. we can ‘support’ the shows we love in Australia by
A. Watching it on tv when it airs, downside being this does basically nothing to support the show (unless it’s Australian produced), the companies only care about watching numbers from major demographics not us…by the time it gets to us they’ve generally already decided if a show/episode is a success/failure. So you can support it…kind of..that way
B. buy the dvd/blu-ray boxed sets. Basically same downside as above..these come out so long after a shows aired that again it isn’t even counted towards a shows success and sure some of the money spent will eventually find it’s way back to the creative minds who brought you the show but with our hyperinflated prices those creators see a trivial % of the money you spend.
C. If you want to actually support the show as a meaningful statistic that the production company will track you could buy the dvd’s online from America as soon as they are available (of course if it’s not a running series you may not have had a chance to see it legally by this point) or setup a proxy in the US that is capable of streaming netflix (expensive and complicated) or find someone over there you know pay for a tv for them have it programmed to turn on and show the shows you want to watch then download them yourself (the downloading part at that point is no different than a DVR)..this last one sadly not only contributes far more to these shows than you could within Australia but also would work out cheaper (even paying the electricity cost for your friend)… that alone should tell you how broken things are :P
and honestly I’d say another reason we haven’t seen individual lawsuits isn’t just about the amount of money a lawsuit could receive (though that’s a big part) but also how the modchip lawsuits went in Australia in the past. They risk similar decisions on certain situations in terms of ‘fair use’ given the difficulties in obtaining services here that are enjoyed elsewhere the situation could occur that they discover a person downloading shows via torrents. Take them to court only to find out said person watched the shows on tv/bought the dvd’s but downloaded them anyway because there was no official service offered too us to get that kind of content, so for convenience they downloaded something they already ‘owned’ and if that suit occurred and they lost based on fair use it could go very very badly after that.
simply if they want to jump through legal hoops to significantly affect piracy and their profits in Australia the absolute best way they could start is sorting out the legal issues around a broad library streaming service (ie netflix). I’m assuming one of the biggest obstacles in that is likely old agreements with the main free to air tv channels (though that’s a guess)
Cameron
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 11:52 PMYeah, something like Netflix would be great over here. I keep my downloading strictly to shows since I have no ratings box, and I will often still buy shows I’ve torrented in the past. I never torrent games, movies or music – there’s no excuse with them, and besides, I like a cinematic presentation with films, so theater+Blu-rays from Amazon.
Gothioso
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 10:45 AMi agree cameron, i tend to only get tv shows we dont get here and have often rebought them when they get here, and i buy blu ray from amazon purely because they are the same region and often a lot cheaper
Danny Allen
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 11:15 PMNo Admiral Kendal Ozzel love? Spent a whole minute putting that together…been waiting for the right story to bust it out again ;)
DomDies
Sunday, October 9, 2011 at 11:19 PMITT: Entitled teenagers who feel the world owes them everything.
LGB
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 5:13 PMThe US and other countries have been pursuing this Individual Copyright Lawsuit crap for over 10 years now and it virtually has had no effect…
Movie studios, record companies need to take a leaf out of the Gaming industries book and do more to secure their merchandise.
Lets face it Music is ridiculously easy to copy, even straight from the CD.
It’s a bit like setting up a veggie stand on the road side with an honesty jar for payment and then whining about people not paying for what they take. Umm Derrr what did you think would happen.
The Movie industry – At least has done something about making it difficult to copy DVD’s. And Blu-Ray take to freaking long so most couldn’t be bothered besides the software is hard to get, expensive or a pain in the arse to use.
In the end it works out cheaper to buy a freaking copy.. Blu-rays and DVD’s are cheap as chips these days anyway.
But… I have to ask.. How the fuck(excuse my french)does a studio copy of an unreleased film make its way to a bit torrent site?
And Security at the Cinemas is equally ridiculous. Most cinemas these you could walk in with a video camera in your hand and no one would bat an eyelid.
As far as I can see it mainly comes down to securing your shit people.
As for TV shows – Well its a bit of mute point as most commercial stations allow you to download episodes of you favorite shows from their websites…
Jim Smith
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 10:51 PMI buy movies I like, all on blu-ray, all on amazon. I’ve got quite a library.
I download movies I otherwise would never pay for, like nick cage films.