[img|http://edge.alluremedia.com.au/m/g/2011/10/QantasGrounded.jpg|center] Qantas has officially grounded its entire fleet today, and stopped all domestic and international flights as part of an ongoing and messy dispute with the airline’s three unions.
Photo by Ryan Pierse/Getty Images
Qantas has been fighting with the Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA), the Australian International Pilots Association (AIPA) and the Transport Workers Union (TWU) over pay, working conditions, and the continued outsourcing of jobs internationally. In addition to grounding its 108 aircraft in 22 airports around the world, as of 8pm Monday the airline will also be locking out all of its domestic employees who are involved in the dispute.
Worried that the unions were “…trashing our strategy and our brand”, Qantas head Alan Joyce claims that the grounding and lockout “…is the fastest way to ensure the airline gets back in the air”. While, not surprisingly, the Transport Workers Union feels the decisions are “reckless, unwarranted and disgraceful”.
While the dispute continues Qantas is offering full refunds for flights cancelled due to the industrial action, as well as the option to rebook them at a later date once the situation has been resolved. And travellers who’ve now found themselves stranded internationally will be able to claim reimbursements for food, accommodations and alternate travel arrangements.
If you happen to be affected, Angus has posted a short guide for stranded passengers over on Lifehacker Australia.
Lifehacker Australia also has an FAQ regarding refunds for grounded flights.
[Qantas via ABC Australia]
Barry Allen
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 10:37 AMMore rabid corporatism.
They can’t increase the employees pay, or stop moving jobs overseas with relaxed laws and conditions, but they have no problem doubling Alan Joyce’s pay packet. Absolutely ridiculous…
Wardski
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 5:39 PMRabid corporatism?? Are you f-ing kidding??
Qantas has every right to move jobs overseas and why not when you’ve got dumb arse Labor Party loving unions running the show. The only loosers here will be the unions and the work force trusting the unions with their livelyhoods.
Alan Joyce deserves every $ for standing up for Qantas and saying enough is enough. The decision to ground the fleet was a hard one, but will cost a mere $250M a year, and they’ve got a $3Bn money pile to draw from – so its not Qantas thats ultimately loosing here. This dispute could go on for many years if it needed to, and without much impact to the business financially.
If Qantas didnt shut it all down and had to deal with a series of strikes and union stupidity, this would cost the company far more than just doing what Qantas did.
My advice to the Unions causing this dispute – STFU and let the workers get back to work before its too late and they lose their jobs un-necessarily..
np
Monday, October 31, 2011 at 1:56 AMI do not blame Qantas management taking a stand against the unions. Despite all my travelling I have only flown with Qantas a mere three times. The first time was to the States and the air hostesses were rude and openly hostile to passengers (you could tell had been at the job waaaayyyy too long), the second I was held up in a crappy Asian airport due to “union disputes” (delayed 5 hours) and the last time I was held up again in Sydney (coming back to Melbourne) as all the Qantas ground staff walked off to have a meeting (that one lasted hours). At that stage I swore NEVER to fly with them again. And I have not. It’s been 8 years of hassle free, pleasant flying since then.
The Joker
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:04 AMThese knuckleheads need to get their shit sorted….and that’s all sides as there will be no winners. The unions are forcing Qantas to outsource and offshore more jobs so job cuts will be greater than they would have otherwise and they are cuasing huge damage to the Brand. Qantas risks losing it’s faultess record of never losing a plane and it’s brand is being damaged because travellers can’t rely on them to get to the destination on time. Passengers are losing/have lost confidence and will seek alternatives so that they are not inconvenienced. No matter how you look at it, everyone loses and the brand is being badly damaged and will take many years to repair if it ever can. The value of Qantas on the share market will be much reduced making it a target for takeover….and guess what you union fools, if you think being the highest paid in the Australian airline industry isn’t good enough, wait until someone takes you over. Then you will really know what being screwed is about. You should all be working together to build Qantas and make it the premier airline in the world. That way Qantas will grow and actually need to hire people and would be sensible to pay well for the loyalty and effort put in by the very people building the company….and put the damn shareholders last. A healthy company will automatically look after it’s shareholders.
Chris
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 2:02 PMLook after the share holders, what with a 65% share price drop and no dividends, and for doing so well the board and CEO gives itself a massive pay rise. To go along with his massive pay rise he destroys the brand and all good will so he can give himself another pay rise.
Wardski
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 5:59 PMAll caused by union disputes.. Tell the unions to STFU and there would never be an issue…
Kroo
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:18 AMHow this has been allowed to stagger week from week by rolling union stoppages just amazes me. The confidence of the flying public has been shattered. I don’t agree with shutting the operations down, but I guess they had no choice when the unions made it almost impossible to trust flying with Qantas. The unions have shot themselves in the foot if this great company goes under or goes off shore. Good job knuckleheads.
Antonia
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:29 AMDo you believe that settling for half a loaf of bread (if previously) you had a full loaf is better than nothing? And so it follows that soon you’ll be struggling for crumbs.
And given that Qantas has, over the years, been convicted of various offenses I cannot accept any “moral” position Qantas may take.
BTW as at 2006, Qantas was 44.5 per cent foreign owned.
Kroo
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 9:35 PMIf the unions can’t barter a deal without forcing the company into drastic measures, then they’re being nothing more than bloody minded. They either adapt or died. Like coach builders going on strike after the invention of the car. This is the reason why they keep pushing services off shore. Keep trashing the brand and there will be nothing for anyone, is that the outcome they want?
Kroo
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 9:39 PMOh, BTW, I wasn’t talking about ownership, that means nothing. I was talking about moving the whole operation to another country. Is that what the unions want out of holding Qantas to ransom for the past month?
Data-Cain
Monday, October 31, 2011 at 10:12 AMerr pretty sure they are moving off-shore because it’s cheaper and better for lining their pockets.
I worked for a company that did all that kinda stuff! Funny how it turned out to be a huge mistake! Jokes on them now! :D
It just goes to show how treating your employee’s like dirt makes them bitter and in turn, your company suffers.
Antonia
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:22 AMOf course the unions want to grow help Qantas grow but management’s first and only concern is to their shareholders. Its union-busting pure and simple.
Why would Qantas have a non-Australian as its CEO? In my opinion its because Qantas wants somebody with no emotional attachment to Australia so when they do something like ground all their planes the CEO won’t have a second thought for all the families (eg caterers) who depend on Qantas for their livelihood losing out.
EMH
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 12:22 PMAlan Joyce has been a naturalised Australian citizen for more than 20 years.
Wardski
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:01 PMAlan has no issues with the workforce. He only has issues with the Union. Dump the union and all the families (eg caterers) who depend on Qantas for their livelihood can get back to work and living their lives…
Rick
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 7:30 PMWith less money :(
Jonno
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 7:48 PMNo, As much as i hate to say it the unions have it right. Alan Joyce clearly wants to ship as many jobs offshore as possible, if they back down their members will lose their jobs. If you think this a good thing your a dickhead.
Kroo
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 9:47 PMA dickhead? Like someone who uses “your” instead of “you’re”. No union is completely in the right. Rolling strikes, disrupting the travelling public is not a smart move or respectful of the public it essentially serves. Guess who the flying public are mad at. Until last night, it wasn’t Qantas. All this while the union delegates get more in THEIR pocket to prolong this dispute, while they hang the members out on a limb.
Richard
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:53 PMWhat does the nationality of the CEO have to do with anything?
Secondly some level of detachment allows them to make hard calls (something that doesn’t necessarily stem from where they were born). Maybe it’s better to move some of the jobs off shore if it means saving the company. If they go bankrupt then they all lose their jobs (aka Ansett).
peterparker
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:30 AMI am not part of any union and I work for myself. But if it wasn’t for union’s, I guarantee that corporations would be running businesses like sweatshops. So the workers that earn $35,000 a year are asking for $1050 (%3) pay increase per year and that is un-reasonable. For a airlines that a while back announced record profits. Shame.
Horsebane
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 1:51 PMThe thing about the guys on 35k a year is, they’re on that wage becuase thats all the job is worth. Its low skill, menial labour. They cant expect big pay rises for work like that. And as for the pilots, their wage ceiling is in the realm of 500k a year, which is more than the prime minister. The unions will kill themselves with this decision, because with no flights happening, there is no money coming into quantas, but a lot still going out. As soon as they lose enough, they’ll start laying these guys off
Reality
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 2:21 PMAs a pilot, working for a subsiduay company of Qantas, let me shine some light on your comment.
My salary is $41k. And I can assure you no aspect of my job is low skilled, meanial work. My PILOT friends working for qantas mainline arent earning substaintially more. Yes there is ONE pilot on 500k, the Chief Pilot of Qantas, responsible for the actions, safety, training and performance of every pilot employed by Qantas and is paid according to his enormous legal responsibility. As for the rest of them, the average pay is 106k. When you divide this by the number of peoples lives they are responsible for, every flight, every day of the year, it equates to less than $1 of each passengers ticket price. Thats less than the cab drivers who drop them off at the airport.
Despite this, the pilots main push in not for more pay. They are asking for all pilots operating qantas flights to be Australian licence pilots. As opposed to asian pilots who havent undergone the same standard of training and licencing we complete in Australia. There is a reason why China Airlines and India Airlines have a worrying accident rate, while Qantas has a clean slate. Its worth fighting to keep it that way.
dave
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 8:48 PMthanks for giving some real info on the situation!
patrick
Monday, October 31, 2011 at 5:31 AMWow that shit load of crap, at least flying a plane is safer than driving, 100k average a month, thats really good pay, try comparing it to other job, Dont dramatise your JOB.
Jonno
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 8:01 PMThis action is by Alan Joyce not the unions.
brave
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:52 AMBullshit. Emotional decisions are reserved for women in managment roles.
Alan Joyce may be an idiot, but his nationality has nothing to do with it.
The unionised workers are greedy, immature sheep led by brainless tools who don’t give a rats ass about Australia.
They forced Qanatas managements hand, and now they’re screwed, and so are people who use this airline. Ansett whent into financial collapse after 66 years… This WILL HAPPEN TO QANTAS if the Unions don’t pull their heads in.
ps, my flight home to see my wife and kids was cancelled.
Nel
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 1:39 PM“Emotional decisions are reserved for women in managment roles”
What is that even supposed to mean? That the role of women in managerial positions is to hand out the tissues and give hugs?? And then I presume you think men will then come in and do the ‘real’ work. That statement is offensive to both men and women.
Penster
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 10:30 PMI reckon your wife and children would be over the moon that you didn’t get home to see them.
lou
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:06 PMyou’re sexist and you think you’re brave hmmm how’s about just self centred and a bad person.
Matt
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:58 AM*cough* it was unions that got us public holidays off and weekends and 40hr working weeks and minimum wages *cough*
Samo
Monday, October 31, 2011 at 8:20 AMNon of which are good for our economy.
jj
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 12:10 PMIts like a nasty divorce….both sides huffing and puffing trying to get what they can and the poor kids (travellers) stuck in the middle.
Steve
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 12:32 PMI think it’s a sad indictment on our media when a reporter from a US tech blog actually reports a story more balanced and less sensationalist than any of the major news outlets have this morning. This country is truly up the shit.
EMH
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 12:38 PMThere are some facts here that everyone is either ignoring or does not know. Here they are.
1. Qantas has 10 unions to deal with, not three, and 7 of those unions have reached negotiated settlements with regard to the pay and conditions.
2. Qantas employees, no matter what their job description, are the best paid in the world.
3. Even when compared with their own union members in Australia, Qantas employees who are members of the TWU are, on average, paid 12% more than their non-Qantas members.
4. There is constant talk of Qantas sending jobs offshore. This HAS NOT HAPPENED and IS NOT PLANNED! JetStar Japan is an entirely new airline that has never existed in Australia. The planned new premium airline, to be based in Asia, has never existed in Australia. Therefore jobs created by these airlines will be NEW JOBS!
5. All Jetstar and other Qantas airlines created outside Australia will bring foreign earning into Australia in a welcome change from ownership of Australian mines and agriculture, factories and means of production.
6. The 3 unions that have not reached a negotiated settlement for themselves are demaindnig a 15% pay rise and this on top of them already the best paid on the planet. Management offered them 9%, which is bloody good in this day!
7. The 3 unions want guarantees of permanency of employmennt. What job has such guarantees today? Any such “guarantee” would not be worth the paper it was written on.
8. The Qantas pilot’s union wants Jetstar pilots to be given the same rates of pay as Qantas itself, in spite of the fact that Jetstar is a low cost carrier and in spite of the fact that Jetstar pilots are very well payed anyway.
9. With regard to Alan Joyce’s remuneration, everyone is very quick to complain about his recent pay rise but no-one seems to want to know that he took a substantial pay cut when he moved from Jetstar to Qantas.
Qantas, in spite of very difficult operating conditions, has managed to maintain a profitable operation overall for some years now, when pretty well all other airlines were losing money. Alan Joyce deserves credit for that. And the fact that Qantas is planning to bring into Australia substantial earnings from overseas is something that should have every Australian expressing pleasure and agreement with the plan which involves no loss of jobs in Australia, no oursourcing of jobs overseas.
Qantas does all but 10% of it maintenance in Australia. No other airline anywhere does such a high proportion of maintenance in its home country. Qantas is and will remain a brilliant Australian achievement unless union greed and public ignorance destroy it.
I am not happy to see the airline grounded but it ma be the only way to inform these three greedy unions that they do not own and do not run the airline. They are merely employees albeit incredibly well paid employees.
Pbh
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 1:07 PMAgreed!
Daniel
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 2:13 PMYou sir have no idea what your on about…. The unions are not asking for a 15% pay rise they are willing to forego a pay rise and are just asking for job security…your comment makes me think your some qantas pr mole hitting up random news sites
EMH
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 5:50 PMI am not now and have never been an employee of Qantas. I have been, for almost the whole of my adult life, some 40+ years, involved in aviation in various capacities includnig as a pilot, bird hazard specialist, aircraft factory manager and others. I would be willing to bet that I know more about aviation and the history of aviation than you know!
It is clear that you are writing from a point of view of profound ignorance or else, perhaps, a stooge of the three unions.
The fact that the three unions want a 15% wage increase is a matter of public record; it is not something that I made up. Perhas you need to read the daily newspapers more closely, before shooting of your mouth in public.
EMH
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:01 PMAnd regarding “job security”, do you have a guarantee from your employer of job security? Or if you are an employer do you guarantee jobs? Of course not, because there is no such thing as job security and any agreement containing such a clause would not be worth the paper it was written on.
Jimmy
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:05 PMI think this whole situation really just boils down to Mr Joyce feeling the effects of guzzling too much cum yesterday morning.
Kroo
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 9:59 PMYour “comment” only serves to prove that the only dickhead in this, is you.
lou
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:13 PMmany of your points above are lies and propaganda. qantas jobs have already gone off shore or been outsourced overseas. this is what pilots are fighting to stop as you’ll see above.
it’s already been made abundantly clear over the last couple of years that the overseas work is substandard to Australia’s safety regulations. repairs and checks are poor and overseas pilots would not be held to the high standard we currently expect. read the above post. pilots are trying to protect their passengers from the constant erosion on safety which Joyce has introduced. not because Asian countries can’t do it well but that the companies qantas are paying are trying to do it for pennies and cutting corners.
Kroo
Monday, October 31, 2011 at 11:37 PMIs this just your opinion or do you have some facts to back it up? EMH is right. No more than 10% of maintenance work is done outside of Australia, but you believe something else. You want to believe that workers are losing jobs to overseas workers. Are they? Proof? The fact that modern aircraft don’t need the same amount of maintenance hours spent on them, should be taken into account. Workers need to keep up with modern techniques not expect the status quo to go on forever and a day. Get real.
jj
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 1:19 PMWhat he said. However Joyce should have given people a weeks notice, I was affected today and cost me time and money to make alternative plans to an Overseas business trip.
ozonocean
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 1:57 PMQuite a little love letter there man.
Love the point about Joyce taking a pay-cut going from Jestar to Quantas, and yet it’s apparently logical that Jetstar pilots should be paid less…?
And now it’s logical that he should get a raise again. Very interesting!
The only logical thing is that pilots doing essentially the same job should be paid the same.
EMH
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 5:57 PMJetstar pilots (who, notably, are not taking industrial action) are paid very generously, just not as obscenely generously as the pilots on Qantas 737 aircraft. It is also worth noting that Alan Joyce even with his very recent remuneration package is still being paid less than he was paid at Jetstar, which has been a spectacular success.
Mr. Joyce’s salary, in cash, is about 2 million per year. The remainder of the 5 million is in shares. The actual value of his remuneration will depend on the price of the shares which have not been worth a great deal for some time now.
As to pilots doing the same job getting the same pay, Jetstar is a low cost carrier so employees cannot be paid the same as a premium cost carrier; if they were the public would not get the benefit of low cost airfares. You can’t have it both ways!
Ozoneocean
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 7:18 PM5 million in shares that he is doing his very best to maximise the value off at the cost of the welfare of his employees and the public in general. That’s not a great incentive for the best sort of performance now is it?
As for the Jetstar pilots, why shouldn’t they be paid the same? It wouldn’t make it any less a low cost carrier, the savings aren’t all made up from the pilot’s pay. That’s not really the philosophy of those sorts of things anyway- you make the savings by cutting back on extras, not by skinning your workers. This just gets more and more dishonest and immoral the further down we go.
It’s no wonder they strike with attitudes like yours!
Thomasnotatwork
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:11 PMGood job in explaining the facts! About time to ve someone to stand up to the unions coz the govt wont
moloko
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 12:39 PMI think the CEO’s $2 million pay rise did it for the unions. Can’t increase workers pay but fuck I’ll have $2 million thanks
EMH
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 5:59 PMThe pilots are demanding a 15% pay rise, the airline offered them 9%. 9% is a very generous offer in the financial circumstances of the world at the moment. Especially when you realise that Qantas pilots are THE HIGHEST PAID on the PLANET!
Jonno
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 8:10 PMPilots are asking for 2.5% payrise, they’re demanding that Qantas pilot are on Qantas flights, therefore not shipping their jobs of shore.
lou
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:14 PMlies they asked for 3% to match inflation check your facts.
giort08
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 12:40 PMThank You for posting this Gizmodo. I dont follow the news much, so lucky for me I am an avid Giz and Kotaku reader :) Now I’ve got to hope they get their shit sorted before my partners flight in 3 weeks time.
Muskrat
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 1:42 PMJoyce gets paid less than A380 pilots on a per hour basis. Screw the militant unions.
Chris
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 2:04 PMAnd how many A380 pilots make 3 million a year and give themselves another 2 million.
I have a friend who is an A380 pilot and I can tell you he earns nothing like that.
Ozoneocean
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 3:35 PMIt’s because the fool is making moronic assumptions about per-hour work. As if with the nature of a pilot’s job they’re able to work a straight 40 hour week or something. Typical right-wing noob living in his own economic fantasy land where CEOs are magical masterminds who create wealth and workers are just interchangeable cogs who add nothing.
EMH
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:05 PMMost of the CEO’s remuneration is in shares and options, not cash. His cash pay is around $2M per year. Additionally Mr Joyce does not determine his own remuneration, that is done by the Qantas board and the shareholders. I note that at the recent shareholders meeting an overwhelming proportion of shareholders voted in favour of Mr Joyce’s remuneration package.
Ozoneocean
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:47 PMAnd the CEO has no influence over this what so ever?
Regardless, you’re wonderfully well informed in the intricacies of all these shenanigans, but far too pro Joyce to be at all trust-worthy.
Ozoneocean
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 3:31 PMAnd if he worked the same as them for it, then he’d earn it, but he doesn’t. The useless fool just kills off our only Australian airline by his crappy management.
Any of those pilots could do HIS job in their sleep. It’d be far less stress and far less work.
Chris M
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 4:15 PMGo fuck yourself muskrat you troll, you’re an idiot. Pilots make a few 100k a year, not a few million. International flight pilots make the money, domestic don’t make as much. Alan joyce is a fucking moron, seriously, he does not in ANY way shape or form deserve a pay rise. Who the fuck in their right mind believes they deserve a 2mil payrise a year when the guys who are fighting for a payrise are making a fraction of that? Screw him.
EMH
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:10 PMApproximately three years ago, or more, the base salary for Qantas a B737 captain was $240,000 and that of a Jetstar A320 captain $160,000. On top of those salaries they get generous allowances for meals and accomodation while travelling. There have been at least 2 wage rises for these classes since the figures above, so they are now getting substantially more than the annual base salaries shown above.
The bigger and heavier the aircraft the higher is the base salary and the longer the routes flown the higher are the allowances, for good and obvious reasons.
Muskrat
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 8:56 PM@ Chris M…whatever anyway that was Joyces comments this morning. You have NO idea you noob tool.
luigi
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 2:31 PMbullshit. Quantas are terrible as a company. I stand for the fact the union is striking. Do you guy realise how dangerous it is to send your planes to China and be inspected by a barely qualified engineers who nip and tuck everything they get their hands on? (Aus media does not portray it but Chinese articles and Hong Kong media) and yet no one sees the fact in the last 5 years there have been more then 50 incidents where a plane has had minor to major (emergency landings) errors. Quantas upper ech are just money hungry bastards
Wardski
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:06 PMQuantas is spelt Qantas BTW.
Qantas planes have been serviced for years at overseas ports. What makes you think that having them done in China will change the quality of the workmanship?? Qantas go through strict quality controls as it is, and their selection of a fleet servicing co will be as tight as.
Qantas are like every company in Australia – demanding good value for services – to keep their fleet in the air. Would they compromise on safety? I doubt it. Does this make them money hungry bastards? Maybe, but maybe not. Have you thought that maybe Qantas is just trying to keep the ticket price rises to a minimum, in the best interest of their millions of travellers each year???
EMH
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:14 PMQantas has only ever outsourced 10% of its maintenance and that is only because some aircraft are outsie Australia when they become time limited and maintenance must be carried out, whether it is needed or not. No other airline can make a claim to have so little of its maintenance done in house.
William Hortle
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 3:32 PMBoth sides are at fault. The unions are greedy and Qantas should have given at least a week of prior notice, since it would have had the same governmental response anyway.
Joyce’s pay rise is well deserved, point out to me another airline that’s made a profit.
In the long run, Qantas is hamstrung by legislation. As a national carrier, it actually has national security commitments that prevent it from seeking low cost services overseas, yet government (both parties) have not provided appropriate compensation or work relations flexibility for Qantas to compete effectively with other airlines that can source lower cost services overseas.
Ironically, work choices may have prevented this dispute from happening.
Ozoneocean
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 3:38 PMLooks like Joyce has been reading Ayn Rand. It’s just too bad that reality doesn’t fit into the mould of his far right-wing “Atlas shrugged” fantasy.
Kroo
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 10:10 PMWhy don’t you bugger off to your occupy Melbourne meeting and leave your petty minded ideals back in Cuba where they’re more than welcome.
PJ
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 4:07 PM“If you happen to be affected, Angus has posted a short guide for stranded passengers over on Lifehacker Australia.”
Page Not Found?
Matt
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 5:41 PMJust something funky going on with the Link – look in your URL bar after you paste it in a remove everything before http://www.lifehacker.com.au will take you through.
Lebowski
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 5:34 PMThe level of considered thought evidenced in these comments makes me despair for the state of our nation.
Wardski
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:08 PMAgreed….
Bob
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:13 PMHas anyone got any figures on how QANTAS pay rates throughout all the different jobs compare to those in other airlines in Australia?
Ozoneocean
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 7:22 PMJust ask EMH in the comments here, I’m positive he could send you out a highly detailed spreadsheet along with illustrated graphs, a pie chart and a very nice Powerpoint presentation, all skewed to paint a rosy picture of Joyce’s postilion and why those “greedy” workers are so very, very bad.
Rick
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 7:38 PMAgreed.
Kroo
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 10:15 PMIf you have any worthwhile facts and not childish looney lefty rants to contribute, we’d all like to see your evidence behind your *cough cough* comments. Proof, not bullshit, then you might be taken with an ounce of seriousness.
Alice
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 6:32 PMSo some unions asks for a pay increase (that’s less than the annual inflation rate) and for job security (which is different to a promise of a job for life) and the company decides to shut down and people here think that the unions are at fault?
lomel
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 7:31 PMSome interesting stuff on here:
http://www.twu.com.au/home/campaigns/qantas/?Page=3
Union planned a 4 hour stop work starting at 7am, in response they were locked out of work from 3.30am
Theres also a link to amendments to the fair work agreement they were after, 5% payrise for two years
BenDTU
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 7:45 PMThe customer loses. Hooray!
lou
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 8:32 PM2.5% pay rise for pilots is still below inflation. its not unreasonable. millions to a CEO like Alan Joyce. that’s unreasonable.
Tim
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 9:24 PMThere’s no doubt both sides are at fault here, but is the union so stubborn not to realise that crippling the company these people work for will not only not get them what they want, but most likely end up with some of their members losing their jobs?
Unions deserve our respect and gratitude in protecting workers rights and conditions, but not at the expense of the economy.
Qantas need to give something here as well, the workers do a good job, they deserve to be treated fairly.
Kroo
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 10:27 PMI’m sorry to spoil your love in here, but respect and gratitude for the unions? Their only objective is to serve themselves and treat their members like canon fodder. I know. My father worked in the transport industry for over 30 years, and every time there was an election for union leaders, the knives, threats and stand over tactics reached all time highs. The “If you don’t support our man, we know where you live” type comments to members made it quite clear who they were looking after. Themselves. They will use the Qantas workers to further their power by trying to make a name for themselves out of this. Ask yourself this. When is the next leadership election of the TWU happening? Very soon I bet. There’s your reason.
lou
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:20 PMI’m dude do you work a 16 hour day plus “half” day of 8 hours on Saturday? no? well that’s cos of unions. 8 hour days. some unions are corrupt like some politicians are corrupt and some companies are corrupt. without unions we’d have no minimum wage. no protection against wrongful dismissal. workers are the meat in the sandwich.
Kroo
Monday, October 31, 2011 at 11:30 PMI am a dude that works more than 8 hour days, all day saturdays and some sundays. Why? I work for myself. I EARN my living the hardest way. Not by bludging off others. Nobody owes me a living. Nobody owes Qantas workers a living. They work, they get paid. We all know of people who don’t do their share, but get paid the same anyway. Unions are basically representing the majority that want to work and the rest that don’t but want the benefits anyway. You want something, go out and earn it, not put your hand out expecting someone else to do it for you.
David
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:58 PMUnions are a good thing in general – companies can and will exploit workers horrendously if they can get away with it (made in china!). The balance of power can swing too far the other way as well though…
Hard to say who’s in the “wrong” with this particular dispute, there’s so much misinformation/propoganda floating round.
Ken
Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 10:14 PMwhile the CEO and Director earning $55-$15 million per year and have no money to pay for workers?
Who really trashing the brand?
But lucky we do have other airline to choose while Qantas ticket expensive with no service nows day.
EMH
Monday, October 31, 2011 at 9:12 AMWhere on earth did you get those idiotic figures? The CEO gets $2M per year plus shares and options, which cannot be exercised for some time yet, the the value of $3M.
Anyway the grounding is now over and the airline will begin flying again this afternoon.