Thousands Calling For Apology To Founder Of Computer Science

In the British government's defense, Alan Turing was also a cougar.

DimensionWarped

We all get what they deserve because his talent is forever gone. kthx h8rs.

iminahammock

@Killjoy: there should be a statute of limitation on guilt...religion have take guilt to a whole new level though...

dumanue

@ProperBritish: Not to diminish the sacrifices of World War II vets, but the case could be made that, without Turing, the Allies would not have broken Germany's Enigma code and that, without breaking the Enigma code, Hitler would have won the war.

Kind of a shoddy way to treat someone who, it could be argued, saved the whole world.

@zackrobbin: Acknowledging the immorality of others' actions is completely different from apologizing for them. The latter is a purely rhetorical claim of responsibility, and is utterly insulting.

Apologies are useless; tell his story so that the future can learn from it. People forget things after a generation or two and make all the same mistakes over and over again.

gwolf

@spannu: Yeah, but I think he meant Real America.

@DigitalSciGuy: That was the point, Digi. I never refer to things as being "gay". Don't start acting like a fag on me, okay? j/k. I seriously don't.

Jestermeister

@Pope John Peeps II: rexsjain is right. "the only reason this is here is because" it's a geeky blog. for geeks, about geeks, and geeky things.
if you don't connect with stories about computers experts, or care about their lives and contributions to our world, why are you reading Giz?

zackrobbin

@gibson042: Perhaps one can't inherit guilt, but one can inherit certain traits: example "being an asshole".
alternately, one can apologize on behalf of ones forebears to help demonstrate that one didn't inherit that particular trait.
(too many "ones")

zackrobbin

@The Mikekearn of La Mancha: "Trying to make people apologize who have done nothing except be descended from those who committed these acts is stupid." You mean sort of like making the current British government apologize for the acts of a few people 50 years ago? I so agree with you.

P.S. America has done its fair share of "colonizing", e.g. the Philippines, Hawaii, Cuba; not to mention the large parts of the US that were "liberated" from Mexico... The only difference between the US and Europe when it comes to things like slavery and overseas empires is that the US is usually the last to acknowledge that these things are wrong...

theczardictates

@addicuss: I'm not saying that American shortcomings erase Britain's. I'm saying that American individuals should save their criticism until they have righted their own wrongs. In the meantime, let Britons attend to Britain's flaws.

theczardictates

An apology for the injustice done to Alan Turing from anyone not involved is an insult.

Guilt cannot be inherited.

@theoldwolf: I'm sure that by "they", he meant "the british government of the time"

@Spiny Norman: Do you seriously think that anyone would go to these lengths to apologise to a child molester? Even if they thought that treating child molesters the way that Turing was treated was wrong, nobody is going to publicly defend a paedophile for fear of the backlash they would endure. Paedophilia and homosexuality have nothing to do with each other. Turing was simply gay, and was vilified and tortured for it.

@Barion: It never ceases to amaze me how many people make the assumption that homosexuality and paedophilia are somehow linked.

theoldwolf

@tha1bu1: I'm British and I agree that it's effed up. I agree that Turing was a genius who helped our country in myriad ways. I agree that if he wasn't gay, he'd have been knighted at least, and probably ended up in the House of Lords eventually. I agree that he should be given a posthumus knighthood now. However, I don't agree that all Brits should be ashamed of what a few people did fifty-odd years ago before most of us were even born. I'm certainly not proud of it, and I'm glad we live in a more enlightened age where this horrific treatment of a good man could never happen again, but I personally don't feel ashamed. The people involved, if they still lived, they should feel ashamed.

theoldwolf

That's effed up man. He helped the British and this is what they did to him. They should be ashamed.

@theczardictates: pointing out others flaws doesnt make yours disappear. We know this country has done some terrible things (and continues to do them). Many have tried to correct these things and stop them from happening in the future.

Nevertheless no one started this article with HEY ALL AMERICANS OUT THERE LOOK AT HOW MUCH THE BRITISH SUCK. Try not to take it as a jab at your government but as a call to correct what we all can agree was an injustice.

addicuss

put "Please sign this petition"
if turing = prosecuted unfairly
and if address = UK
then
put "signature"
end if

EDIT: Thank you CS101!

and for those that don't know, "chemical castration" isn't some barbaric use of acid or whatever to physically castrate the individual. It's "medication" designed to reduce libido and sexual activity.

Also, he AGREED to this punishment as an alternative to prison. Granted, he should never have been prosecuted in the first place, which is why the gov should apologize. but, like i said, can't put the sins of the father on the son. different ways of life between then and now.

Better Idea. Lets reinstate this protocol.

JaXs

@All Your Base Are Belong To Us: The government still exists, and it can apologize. An institution acknowledging and taking responsibility for its actions is very different than punishing living individuals for the actions of the dead.

Oh, and no, there's no statute of limitation on guilt. I have no problem with forgiving, but things like this should *never* be forgotten or they will continue to happen.

that was a long time ago. "sins of the father", it seems.

although, i'd like to see the british government do something to help right this wrong, and an apology doesn't seem to cut it for all that this man did for them. or the world.

An apology is the least that could be done. They should name an institution after him. For what he did, and how he was treated 55 years is never too late.

NervousFireStarter

I'm loving this side of Giz. Right on.

@m9105826: From Janoff, the creator of the apple logo:

"Anyway, when I explain the real reason why I did the bite it’s kind of a let down. But I’ll tell you. I designed it with a bite for scale, so people get that it was an apple not a cherry. Also it was kind of iconic about taking a bite out of an apple. Something that everyone can experience."

fun story though.

@All Your Base Are Belong To Us: On a side note, slaves weren't only in the south, they were everywhere.

Humans are brutal. Of course the UK should apologize.

SingaporeCr8v

And before anyone else squawks about apologising for actions of long dead men, the bureaucrats and politicians who tormented Turing may be long dead, but the state that sanctioned these actions is still around.

Too late apologising to a dead man. But HM government do need to officially acknowledge its culpability for the cruel and disgraceful treatment that this great man had been subjected to by the country that he had served so well.

@tundraboy:

I'm sorry but I respectfuly disagree. I think you're giving people too much credit for their thought process when they throw out the word "gay" in a negative context.

When someone encounters an unfortunate situation and says "wow, that's gay" I seriously doubt they consider whether or not they mean "This is homosexual in nature and I'm not fond of that particular way of life"

They just mean "This stinks" and that's the end of it.

*no disrespect intended to smelly people

@JordyO:

Of course when people say "that's so gay" or "you're so gay" as a way of ridiculing or making fun of other people's appearance or behaviour, it is an insult on gays.

A little empathy my friend, a little compassion, for people who tread upon harder roads than us.

Seriously? "Almost"?? Jump off a cliff.

kenbennedy

Seriously? "Almost"?? Jump off a cliff.

kenbennedy

They should have done this decades ago.

HJTravels

@DigitalSciGuy: Actually, I don't think you see what I did there. That wast the joke. Naturally, I know it was inappropriate to use "gay" in a negative manner, especially in regards to this story....you know what, nevermind.

@theczardictates: We'll get on that just as soon as you apologize for "colonizing" so many places in an attempt to control the world through subjugation, unfair taxation, slavery, murder, and more. Get off your high horse. Every civilization has committed atrocities, it's human nature. Trying to make people apologize who have done nothing except be descended from those who committed these acts is stupid.

Dear American Commenters: Yes, what was done to Alan Turing was horrible -- and personally I think that being rejected by the government he'd done so much for was actually more hurtful than the attempt to chemically "cure" him.

We'll happily take your input on this just as soon as you're done apologizing to people you've historically wronged through prejudice. I'll helpfully kick off the list with Oppenheimer and other victims of McCarthyism, Japanese-American WWII internees, african-americans, native americans. Oh, and when you've addressed *current* prejudice against gays.

When you're done, the petition will be waiting...

theczardictates

@DigitalSciGuy:

Either that or you can choose to understand that quite often when people use the term "gay" they aren't doing it as a direct insult to homosexuals.

Languages evolve and it so happens that the term 'gay', in the context you speak of, has turned out to mean something different and is not necessarily a shot against the g/l/b/t community.

read: get over yourself. Words change in meaning. Back in the day "gay" meant happy.

@Hintzyboy:

Just make sure you do it in a colorful outfit too, so you can fit in with the theme!

@dumanue: actually I'd say he's got a point. If your asking people to take the blame for something their predessors did then why limit it to 100 years. Either way the people in office had nothing to do with it. So let's start demanding apologies for all atrocities. That said if they wish to apologize hey good for them and good PR.

@TiffanyHaoiet: Almost as bad? They chemically castrated him, thats a heck of a lot worse!

ShadRS

@Spiny Norman: Why would you ask if Turing was a pedophile? Do you ask heterosexuals the same thing, or do you just single out gays? Do you link homosexuality and pedophilia because you consider both perverted?

@All Your Base Are Belong To Us: sure, I'd put the statute of limitation at 100 years...so...Alan Turing is still in this time frame...get over yourself...

dumanue

Almost as bad as the don't ask, don't tell policy that is still in practice.

TiffanyHaoiet

Wtf... man I thought he was frowned down upon for that. I didn't realized the government castrated him and prosecuted him. No wonder he suicide. I thought he suicide because he couldn't acknowledge the fact that he was gay. Thx gizmodo. Oh the petition is for British citizens only! Mention Ada lovelace and Charles Babbage and I'll love you forever.

digitalzombie

Should we seek an apology from all Europeans because their ancestors participated in 'witch hunts'. What about Americans with southern ancestry, should we seek an apology from them for supporting slavery. There must be a statute of limitations on guilt!

@FooSchnickens: Actually, UK has a law stating that the government is bound to give at least a detailed written answer to any petition gathering 500+ signatures in the span of a year.
Not much, okay, but more than you could hope for in many other countries.

@andsowouldi: I use it jokingly myself, and granted there's the same stigma around 'gay' as there is around the N-word, but in a world where you can still be prosecuted and put down by your peers... Call me too PC, but it does sting every time I hear it and I NEVER use it around people I don't know or in very public settings (i.e. the Internet).

As a gay computer science major with a specialization in A.I., Turing has a pretty significant place in my league of heroes. Wish I could sign this one.

@Pope John Peeps II: I came across a number of comments on this thread which raise the question "Why only Turing?". Gizmodo did not raise this petition, they are only supporting it. And as long as you can start an online petition for some other person you knew who was wronged, I am sure we too will be drawn towards helping you out.

Alan Turing because Giz is a gadget blog and has always stayed true to its roots. I don't feel Giz is trying to make people connect to anything, they are just professing their support for righting the unjust done to a person they love and respect. Nothing shallow in that.

@ProperBritish: Or he did get castrated but nobody offered an apology.

Makkuro

I'll be in London in a couple of weeks. Shall I make colorful signs and shout at the queen?

Hintzyboy

@m9105826: Wow, I didn't know that. That's cool.

@DigitalSciGuy: I know so many gay people that use "gay" in that manner, so I think it's okay. I've called them out on it actually and they just say it's a different meaning when used like that.

andsowouldi

An apology should be extended to all homosexuals who were castrated as a result of this program. Why single out Alan Turing? Just because others were less prominent than Turing, does it mean they endured any less suffering or that the practice in those instances was somehow less abhorrent?

atlasfugged

@nicklar: 1) British != Scottish, 2) These are two completely unrelated topics.

salient1

As someone with a CS degree, I have a ton of respect for Turing. And there's no doubt that 'chemical castration' is an incredibly sick and twisted thing to do to another human being. However, I can't help but think this is dumb; afterall, no one in the British government *now* was responsible for what happened then. It was 55 years ago. Chances are the person who will write the 'apology' wasn't even born when this happened. Rings pretty frakking hollow to me.

@roflwaffles is terribly unfunny: Brazilians are (South) Americans too, duh!

spannu

@croush1211: Or that he didn't get castrated first.

spannu

@roflwaffles is terribly unfunny: I don't know why a Brazilian citizen would know it, but it's an American saying, and I hadn't heard of it until now (me = not American).

psychiccheese

@Unspellable: Agreed. People who had nothing to do with the incident should apologize simply because they fill the same post? Alan Turning has my sympathy, but I don't see what good an apology from dead people to a dead person would be.

Being a gay nerd, myself, I often find it interesting what people have to say about things like this, particularly how genuine people sound or the words people choose to echo their feelings about the subject.

While the bias Turing felt in his day was to a despicable degree of severity, it is by no means completely gone. From the comments on this blog to Internet culture itself, the word 'gay' and even the *concept* and insinuation of homosexuality is used with such a negative connotation - and its demoralizing and hurtful. (And don't get on that 'oh it's not that kind of "gay"' shit...)

Even if you can't sign the petition reflect on how you perpetuate that bias today. Your apologies mean nothing if you continue to do so.

@Jestermeister: I see what you did there, too, and I find it rather contradictory to feel sympathetic for him being persecuted for being gay and then turning right around and using the word 'gay' with a negative connotation. Don't mean to start a flame war (har har har) here but you realize that using that word in that way demoralizes hundreds of people every day who *are* gay. I won't be asking for an apology, just some consideration in the future.

@nathrat: I see what you did there, too, and I find it rather contradictory to feel sympathetic for him being persecuted for being gay and then turning right around and using the word 'gay' with a negative connotation. Don't mean to start a flame war (har har har) here but you realize that using that word in that way demoralizes hundreds of people every day who *are* gay. I won't be asking for an apology, just some consideration in the future.

I don't have a UK address- but I may find myself writing a letter instead

BeatrixMunippus

@Parentmk:
History repeats itself. 7 years isn't that long ago.

Unknown2U

go giz go! you rock!

@psychiccheese:
Why would a Brazilian citizen know it but a British citizen wouldn't?

This is a good cause, and a tragic story to happen to a good person. And it's great that Gizmodo is writing an article demanding that the world recognize a violation of this person's basic human rights, which led to his tragic and horrible death. But it makes me feel weird inside when I think that the only reason this is here is because... he was a computer science expert...

I can tell by the thread that I'm not the only one who finds this situation strange. I'm not exactly sure why, but it makes me feel odd that I'm supposed to connect with this tragic story BECAUSE this person is a computer expert. I think that makes a lot of people feel that this might be a bit shallow even if there's a good intention behind this.

@bnetter12: I don't think anyone is disputing that. Merely, shedding light on the actual process that occurred. Still quite sad of course.

As for sex offenders, they at least have it coming in many ways.

Who wrote this story, Joanna Stern or Brian Lam? What were the nature of Turing's relationships, consenting adult or child molestation? A link to a credible biography would be appropriate.

A fellow lived at the same time and came up with the idea of an affordable car and a super highway system. I doubt you'd sign a petition to clear his name.

Spiny Norman

@khdownes: Yes, it still can be used against sex offenders in some states. In California, judges can sentence convicted sex offenders to it at their discretion for the first offense, but it's mandatory if there is a second.

aek8

@TonyRockyHorror: I dunno.. he looks kinda creepy to me.. Then again lots of brits look creepy..

Kev50027

@ARP: I stand corrected on the 09 article, but my point still stands that old articles don't carry much weight.

I don't mean to say that getting fired for sexual preference is a good or right thing either just so you know, however people do get fired from other jobs for things as ridiculous as that on a daily basis. The article is trying to point out people attempting to right a previous wrong, and I don't think anywhere they insinuated that the problem was over either.

@m9105826: Also, the rainbow apple design was an homage to his homosexuality.

@ProperBritish: Someone's bitter that they didn't break the code first, apparently!

Because online petitions always carry so much weight with large organizations, particularly governments.

Not to say it isn't for a worthy cause, though.

A neat Turing story once told to me by my freshman Comp Sci teacher:

Turing had an intense obsession with folk tales, most notably Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. When the government he worked for his whole life deemed him a problem because he way gay, he reportedly dropped into a deep depression (as would I if I had done so much for the Allies in the war only to have the world tell me there was something wrong with me). Anyway, his death was suicide by cyanide poisoning, but rumor is that he doused an apple in the stuff and killed himself in mimic of his favorite story, and supposedly this is where the Apple logo with one bite taken out of it comes from.

@ProperBritish: I would care. And I agree most castration victims should get an apology. Why dont you get right on listing them so i can get to signing petitions.

WyldeChef

take your time. a bit late dont you think? this is ridiculous. i am quite sure castration still happens in some countries today, just because this guy was someone important to computer science doesnt make him any more special than you or me. if i was gay, and they did that to me, you wouldn't care. so why do you all of a sudden care about this guy? surely if it really meant that much to you all you would've found out about this years ago.

im not saying he doesnt deserve an apology, but if he does get one, so should EVERY SINGLE PERSON who had the same done to them as well.

/rant

@random_droid: Why chemically? Can't we be more brutal nowadays?

The Brits are compassionate enough to let convicted (for life) terrorists go home to a hero's welcome. Why not this?

Of course an apology is warranted, as long as it doesn't lead to lawsuits by great-grand nieces, simply wanting to cash in.

nicklar

@Algerad: Castration is bad anyway you say it.

Not to excuse the British government for their horribly cruel and small minded actions, but true genius is often stoked by the hardships and stresses of our lives. From novelists and painters to engineers and architects, the mere existence of that stress and hardship often drives us to greater lengths and sharpens our focus on our immediate tasks.

That all said, the British Government should absolutely apologize for their ridiculous actions and even provide a post-mortem knighthood for one of their most important citizens ever.

And right after they do that, they should call Bliar and get him to apologise to Dr. David Kelly, for, you know, killing him.
[globalresearch.ca]

It's impossible to kill yourself by transecting the ulnar artery.

@MadMonkey572: YOU should be chemically castrated. The world owes a debt to this man, you have any idea how important his contributions were? Who fucking cares if he was gay?

Signed. Thanks for drawing my attention to this.

aThingOrTwo

@aek8:
Isn't this still how they "Treat" peadophiles in the US nowdays?

khdownes

@ARP: they probably feel that firing him for being gay is a better reason than firing him for being an Arab, (and I'm sure the number is much greater than 7).

psychiccheese

@Parentmk: Fair enough. Here is a recent one.
[abcnews.go.com]

Oh and here's one about how we booted translators pre 9/11.
[www.msnbc.msn.com]

@mths: except the only people who would know that (Americans), cannot sign the petition.

psychiccheese

Signed.

Luke Michael Timothy

@MadMonkey572: hope your identity is stolen and you go bankrupt as a result.

TonyRockyHorror

Hell no he doesn't deserve an apology.

MadMonkey572

@nathrat: i see what you did there

@EpiphyteCorp.:
Fantastic book!

on the first day of a crypto class, the professor wrote on the board "Our Hero: Alan Turing"

@EpiphyteCorp.: the part about asdic always made me crack up.

""My husband and I operate a small bed and breakfast," Mrs. Qrrt says. "We should be honored to have an Asdic man stay with us." Asdic is simply the British acronym for what the Yanks refer to as sonar, but every time the word is mentioned in the presence of Alan, he gets a naughty look on his face and goes on an unstoppable punning tear."

He definitely deserves an apology. The fact that they prosecuted him for this is super gay.

@350z-racer: ...which doesn't work anyways...how awful and ignorant of them.

@bill cant fart: Huh? I thought I clicked reply. This was meant for DeusExMatch.

John Hancock is a fancy way of saying "signature"

@DeusExMach believes you have his stapler: That's not a joke, it's a common saying. Just so you know.

@ARP: and you link to a 7 year old article? It could at least be something current to be more relevant. In this day and age 7 year old sources are getting close to ancient at this point.

@LaBibi05: Sigh.

Governments, even those outside of the U.S., are made up of people. There is no justice that will be afforded Mr. Turing for anyone offering an apology now... by persons who had nothing to do with what happened 50+ years ago.

Anybody who knows or cares to know anything about this guy should read Cryptonomicon by Neil Stephenson. Great book!

EpiphyteCorp.

@aek8: oh ok so it wasn't like that. Thanks for the info guys. But yeah still that is crazy that that was actually considered a treatment.

HA! I see what you did there! John Hancock! HILARIOUS!

'cause he signed that famous document directed at the British Government, right? That's the joke... right?

@John Nahajski: I doubt the apology will do Turing any good either. The point is that it's admitting a past mistake, and that's a pretty big thing for a government to do.

@Jestermeister: Nicely done.

uRbAnlP

I would like to sign the petition as well, but I reside in America.

I can't believe they called that "treatment". It's very sad. I hope they end up apologizing.

LaBibi05

@John Nahajski: No, but it will shed light on a ongoing issue of kicking people of the military for a stupid reason. The US about to fire another arab translator just for being gay (that makes 7 or so since just after 9/11).

Yes, thank god we don't think that way anymore. If would horrible if we say, fired arab translators because they were gay.

[www.cbsnews.com]

@snoop_dizzle: Chemical castration is not burning the testicles off with acid, it's a medicine that makes you impotent. It's reversible and certainly more humane than physical castration, but it's still unimaginable that this was a "treatment."

aek8

@snoop_dizzle: Basically hormone treatment according to Wikipedia. "Chemical castration" makes it sound like they're burning stuff off with chemicals, but well, it's not quite that bad (still pretty bad of course).

Algerad

@jcraig: imagine the l on fuck as a ! or nothing

jcraig

Ballin' as fuckl. (or should I say re-ballin')

jcraig

@Jestermeister: I see what you did there.

will the apology change much? it wont be from the people who prosecuted him i think.

John Nahajski

@350z-racer: yeah....ouch :'(

Alan Turing is the fucking man. This is evident in the fact that almost every computer science theory was already thought up by him.

That's so gay how they persecuted him for that!

Jestermeister

"...given experimental chemical castration as a "treatment.""
Oh wow, poor chap. :(