President Obama Isn’t Actually Trying To Hijack The Entire Internet

@92BuickLeSabre: And you know what else? It's more efficient this way. We have a federal system for a reason. There will be fires and floods and earthquakes and hurricanes. We spread the risk and we spread the reward. We have economies of scale. It benefits none of us to have regions of the country that are poor or left behind or bankrupt. We are all stuck in this thing together, if we don't look out for each other then over time we become so stratified that we can't accomplish anything. And if you honestly believe that no safety net, no public education, no highways - none of the things that are necessary to hold us together - are important, I recommend taking a look at any one of the many countries with a truly tiny wealthy elite and a mass that has been left to fend for themselves. Let me know how well it has worked out.

*passes out on desk*

@Rabid Penguin: I don't really think Bush is stealing oil. I just said that to make myself giggle.

And why? Because it is consistent with my ideals of Justice, Ethics, Patriotism, Democracy, Federalism, Christianity, personal morals, humanism, decency, and what it means to be an American. We look out for each other. It's the social contract. We could abandon each other like we are Burma or China or the Sudan. Or we can take seriously that we are One Nation,Under God Indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for All. One Nation. One People. It's what my founding fathers taught me. It was why they abandoned the Articles of Confederation for the Constitution. It is what my ancestors and my family fought and died for.

If you don't believe in the Social Contract, that is fine. We simply disagree about what it means to be a Citizen of a Nation.

And the rest of your little ditty (now at the top of the page) is nonsense, and you know it. The folks in government may disagree on how to interpret the Constitution, but most of them take it very, very seriously. On both sides of the aisle.

I apologize for the unusually blatant sincerity and sentimentality. It's late, and my guard is down.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses
Yearning to breathe free
And I will hold them to my bosom
And explain to them my plea.

I will end the corporation
And the greedy business too
You will come to rely on government
For everything you do.

I am President of the United States
Monarch, Ruler, King
I will protect you from yourselves
And you won't have to do a thing.

We will make the cars, control your health care and we'll run the banks.
But as to the question of abortion, it's above my pay rank.

We're tough because we care for you and your freedom stands in our way.
How can we embrace you if you're able to turn away?

And in a time of trouble
Do not fear and do not fret.
For I your lord and savior,
Bring you Obamanet.

It doesn't really matter what the Constitution has to say,
Because nobody in government has read it anyway.

@92BuickLeSabre: If you live in the ocean you're gonna get wet.

If you choose to live in tornado alley and a tornado hits your house why should someone in a different state be forced to pay for it?

If you choose to live on a fault line and an earthquake destroys your house why should someone in a different state be forced to pay for it?

If you choose to live below sea level and water destroys your house why should someone in another state be forced to pay for it?

People know the risks and yet they still choose to live there. It should be up to the state and local levels along with charities and donations to fix the mess. Why should someone who chooses to live in a state that's above sea level be forced to pay for it?

A lot of people don't even want to move back to New Orleans, so why should I (who lives in a different state) be forced to pay for a place people don't even want to live?

Also, if "Bush is stealing oil in Iraq" is true, and he's no longer in office, but we're still in Iraq, is Obama now stealing oil from Iraq?

@marmalito: Wow. That was a long comment... a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

If you're comment was serious then you're loonier than most posters here.

@Seiven: here here!

@Rabid Penguin: Why do you think our rights are continually eroding, if not because it is the will of corporate influence?

What motivation do politicians have to take away our rights other than conforming to corporate pressure?? This isn't the middle ages. Wealth, status, and authority are not provided by violence and oppression, as was the case in earlier times. Most politicians are initially elected because they are likable, and they are likable because they are evidently sociable (i.e. - people persons).

It is mind-control of the proletariat that confers power in today's world, and it is the corporate machine manipulating the government that is wrestling away our freedoms.

They can't tax us? What about the hundreds of billions of tax dollars that go into the coffers of SOCIALIZED defense industry corporations? These are private organizations that exist in an insulated, taxpayer-funded vacuum free from competition. They create their own no-bid contracts using the revolving door in washington that they created. What do you think Cheney, Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, Iraq, etc. is all about?

They can't imprison us? What do you think the war on drugs is all about? Similar SOCIALIZED corporations are constantly exerting pressure on government to boost 'security' and 'law enforcement' industries. They do this by encouraging arbitrary quotas, boosting the prison population, manufacturing criminals and exaggerating the need for a police state. An entire generation of violent criminals started out as minor drug-offenders in need of simple therapy. Instead they were trapped in an increasingly apathetic, ruthless legal system from which there is little hope of escape. Whatever happened to our right to fair and proportionate punishment?

They can't force us to do anything we don't want to do? There was little to no support for a war in Iraq in 2002. There were many voices in the U.N. calling out - with EVIDENCE and authority - against the rush to war. It was the cowardly denial and negligence of these facts in the corporate media that made this war possible. That FORCED this hell on us. No - not just us - on the world. If the news had called bullshit on Powell, and focused our attention on what caused our bloodlust in the first place (remember? September-fucking-eleven), there would have been more than just impeachment proceedings.

Meanwhile, the economy "collapses"... and the mega-corporations consolidate their holdings.

@streetceltic: If Russia or NK cyber attack the U.S., they will cyber attack the government, and the government already has the power to manage the security for their own sites. They don't need any more power over the internet as a whole. Not to mention Obama and his buddies don't know much of anything about how the internet works, so giving him any power over it is just dumb.

It's just his administration's plan of centralizing power on the president even more than it already was. You know when this country was founded that the president was far weaker than they are now? The balance of power has shifted dangerously into the hands of one person in government, and giving them any more power is just making it more dangerous.

Kev50027

@92BuickLeSabre: You answered number 4 with number 3 pretty much.

Zomb

@92BuickLeSabre: that sounds like socialist muslin talk right there... go home, traitor! (lols?)

@svgjjc: yeah glennbeck.com never gets their facts wrong

@The Analrapist: I'm pretty sure your evil government created the constitution and has the power to edit it to their liking.
If by not having freedom you mean we can pretty much do anything we want w/o hurting anyone then yea we have no freedom

/facepalm

Zomb

@d_r_e: or Save me from the Obama Death Squads

/facepalm

l2 read bill and not watch fox news.

Zomb

@svgjjc: He saying read the above article where it says the bill actually doesn't give him any power he didn't already have.

Zomb

@alpha24seven: Yea we should be able to keep it from getting that bad, but emergency plans are never a bad thing.

Zomb

@svgjjc: Okay, I went to your link and read everything there. Because I like to stay informed on all sides of an issue. But there wasn't a single credible piece of information in your own source to support your implications. Sorry.

There are legitimate complaints, honest arguments, reasoned critiques, and valid fears. And then there is imaginary paranoid crack-pottery. I'm afraid this was a part of that last group.

@random_droid: I have read extensively on this. It is the innocent first step at yet another power grab. If you trust him you are a fool.

svgjjc

@The Analrapist: Glenn Beck...is that you? It sounds like his paranoid ramblings.

@streetceltic: Exactly. I think people can get along just fine if the Internet needs to be disabled to stop a country like NK from messing shit up. God forbid you couldn't twitter your friends about how scared you are.

@svgjjc: Yeah, but he's NOT going to take over the Internet. Learn how to read.

@Kev50027: I agree. I'm all for personal freedom. But what happens when Russia/North Korea cyberattack us? If, our Gov. have no power what could it do? Nothing, and then they could disable our systems and these SAME people be singing a different tune. "Why the hell the Gov didn't stop this?" Well it will be because you didn't think they should get involved. I.E. BITING YOUR OWN ASS. The Gov will be blamed either way. There is no winning with most of you.

streetceltic

@92BuickLeSabre: I would have promoted your comment myself, but I have not been granted a star (coughs) yet.

WTF? Doesn't our government have the resources/people to keep it from getting so bad as needing to "flip the switch"?

WTF MFers. I'm sick of paying taxes for their weak ass attempts at who knows what.

This is ALL about control and little about security. Rockefeller and the entire security industry said so.

alpha24seven

@JoeKhurr: Hey I’m an Analyst and a therapist thats an Analrapist

@Kev50027:

It's not moving towards 'shutting down the internet.' It's moving to 'in the event of an emergency, dispatching experts to help remedy the problem.'

@[www.youtube.com]
This was a call for public service, as in the Peace Corp, as humanitarian efforts increase the acceptance of the United States amongst citizens of foreign countries (as in, "Hey let's not strap a bomb on and blow the shit out of the US embassy. Those dudes gave me food and warm blankets, they are allllllright"), instead of placing the burden on our military. That's how you get truly welcomed as liberators. National security is not just a military issue. Failing schools, health issues, environmental issues, crime, energy and the economy all effect our national security (beyond the scope of planes flying into buildings, but in terms of Americans starving in the streets and living in poverty). Americorps was positioned to help battle domestic issues that weaken our country.

Politicians are all the same - the want power and money. Your personal freedom and the Constitution are in their way.

Ask yourself what you'd be thinking if Bush was pulling this stunt and was trying to scrape personal info off Facebook and Twitter.

You think this guy is any different because he's half black and cool?

svgjjc

here from the Senator who wrote this bill:

""The Internet is a "fearsome awesome problem" and it would have been better if it had never been invented.""

Oh and then there is this little gem from him :

"…it would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years." -David Rockefeller, Bilderberg Meeting, Germany 1991.

[uncensored.co.nz]

svgjjc

@commentotron: back in my day, teabagging meant something TOTALLY different

3Djesus

@superberg: but then where will our snarky gizmodo comments and articles come from??? :*(

JoeKhurr

@bnetter12: That I love myself.

(I would've thought that much was obvious.)

(Actually, technically, I was trying to promote the person I was responding to by promoting the thread - like the way this response approved your comment - but the same logic applies.)

@superberg: +1

@92BuickLeSabre: Why does it say you promoted your own comment.

I don't think this is much better. The idea of the internet is that it is non centralized. There is no one person that can shut the internet down. Anything moving towards that end is bad, and government getting involved is even worse, since we saw how they fucked up getting involved in so many other things.

I believe in small national government, and personal freedoms, aka I'm a libertarian. This bill is bad because it's more legislation that doesn't need to be there.

Kev50027

@d_r_e: veterans should get free health care. That makes sense, they put their life on the line for their country. For the average lazy bum, they didn't do shit to deserve healthcare, and they should have to work to deserve it.

I would hope that if I went into a foreign country with a high likely hood of getting shot for years on end, I would be able to come back and have some sort of healthcare.

Kev50027

@SGTalon: You can tell how intelligent a person is simply by observing their view on life.

Life isn't about me, it's about WE. You don't think that everyone chipping in so we can all afford health care is a good thing???

Hey, kindergarten called, they want you to f*@king stop being a douchebag and share.

SJRNWT

@Russell Lynn: Actually, it really wasn't true since even the original version restricted his control to connections to government systems. your connections to private sector parties would have been explicitly out of his control.

the healthcare sections were also not ambiguous either. i read them. i was not confused at all. what i was confused by was how you could possibly reach the conclusions some people did, especially since those same provisons already exist in the law today for existing health programs. the real issues in the healthcare debate are being drowned in a sea of manufactured issues.

Accelerata

@waltcoleman: Well, that's the thing - the Bush admin didn't 'propose,' they just 'did' and got pissed when people talked about it.

Inebricus

@dbett: the original bill also only applied to connections to government systems. the connection between you and your porn provider of choice would be safe.

Accelerata

@The Analrapist: So sayeth a sodomizer.

JoeKhurr

@d_r_e: My favorite "keep the government out of medicare!"

LOL. Silly teabaggers.

commentotron

@Eulatos: - " Of course in the EXACT same sentence every time they say, "Dont take away our Medicare!!!" "Dont take away our medicaid". These programs are both government run, so do you WANT government run health care or no?

Indeed. Also, I find it funny that no one bitches about the FREE health care that veterans receive.

@Steeplebomb: Healthcare *should* be a public service, not a business. It is in the best interest of a government to keep its citizens healthy. Your health is not something that you should have to place a bet with a bookie for so the payoff can help cover your hospital visit.

coyote1284: P.E.T.U.

@drewls: If nothing else, I appreciate your attempt to show that there is a common ground between us.

@drewls:

The difference is you don't end up with a disgustingly unfair and bloated bill at the end of your life saving health care visit if it all happens in the U.K.

You don't have to solely rely on the N.H.S if you live in the U.K. There are plenty of private insurance options if you can afford it. The fact that the system is designed to take care of everyone if needed regardless of your financial situation is a hell of lot more comforting than the joke that has become the U.S medical system. Again, if you can afford it, plenty of private doctors and private hospitals in the U.K. If you can't the safety net of the N.H.S exists and you don't take home a whopper of a bill at the end of the day.

As for denial of expensive drugs and care for the elderly; that's pure conservative drivel. No system is perfect, but bring those same denial comments into how the American insurance corporations operate. Same denial requests for expensive drugs, operations, etc. and plenty of death panel boards within these insurance corporations writing you off if you cost them too much. At least the U.K has health care for all. The system in the U.S sucks and I'm living here in the U.S and have lived in the U.K and I know which system I'd take if I didn't have any health insurance.

Lee Millar

@Jim Topoleski: The biggest problem with American healthcare and biggest hurdle for a viable national healthcare system is that American healthcare is a business, not a public service. Hospitals are kept above their overhead by insurance and pharmacutical companies. Free markets are great... for commodities; our health IS NOT a commodity. We shouldn't have to pay a bookie (insurance) and place a bet (premium) on our health just to pay for our emergency hospital visit (deductable).

coyote1284: P.E.T.U.

@92BuickLeSabre:

"Well, I apologize for my obvious lack of knowledge about anything."

I didn't say that. In fact, I hear that your knowledge of outer Mongolian limericks is unrivaled on any gadget blog.

It is your blind trust of the government that is what I am questioning. That blind trust indicates a severe lack of understanding of both civics and history.

drewls

@92BuickLeSabre: I merely used the 2nd Amendment issue as an example of lawyers being able to argue over a strightforward statement and 4 judges AGREED that it does not pertain to individual gun ownership...if such a thing as that can be argued and 4 justices AGREE with those trying to re-define it...then any vague law can also be argued and only 5 of 9 justices are all that will be needed for that vague law to be called CONSTITUTIONAL.

this is truly inarguable.

this is why any law giving the President more power must give EXACT SPECIFIC limits on that power...such as "shall NOT seize private networks"

@92BuickLeSabre: Sorry man, you overshot the "so bad it's good" line with that one. I didn't even groan. But I'll give you a B for effort!

Eventually the government will take away all our rights in the name of protecting us from the unidentified bad guys. In the eyes of the government the only ones that stand in its way of total control are its people. Why do you think we have the Constitution just to be cool or to try to protect us from our leaders? Vague laws are the catalyst for government controlled society, look back at history, but on a different note humans like a sense of control it give them the idea of security just as long as we have our creature comforts, so give us faster internet, bigger TV’s with new Video games and we will all fall into place and be happy. What is so wrong if the government takes over anyway as long as we have a good standard of living? It’s not like any of us really have any freedom now anyway.

Umm...perhaps read the article?

It WAS true that the bill HAD language that would have allowed take over of any "critical infrastructure information system or network."

And then the outrage (which Mr. Herman is now ridiculing) resulted in changes.

Personally, I wasn't bothered by the initial version. But the revisionist history does kinda bother me.

dbett

@SEDAGIVE?!: Aw Shucks. Thanks.

@SkippyTheMarine:

1) Yes. Because I read it as a matter of the power to coordinate not the power to do. And I believe that the executive could have (and would have) claimed the power to do with or without this bill (regardless of political party.)

2) No. But I get the counter-arguments.

3) Worse. And I don't get the counter-arguments.

4) You got a few days?

@Steeplebomb: Huh, even though I didn't think I needed to, I actually addressed this point explicitly in the comment you are responding to.

You are being both too cynical and not cynical enough.

@gaiking: See above. And while your concerns about the 2nd Amendment may be valid on their own terms, they are not actually at all analogous to this case from a Constitutional Law perspective. Unless your point is merely that lawyers will always argue that the law means what they are paid to argue that it means, in which case - see above.

Rush Limbaugh does not approve this message.

Dethzilla

@aec007: You sir, are a moron if you believe that.

@BaileyWhale: I agree completely

@Steeplebomb: ...Agreed... power corrupts....and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Partisan politics aside...I don't want anyone to have a magic button that shuts ANY of my shit off. Have you read the fine print on FCC labels on just about any electronics?Liberty or Death. I don't want your free shit...and I don't want to be FORCED to pay for anyone else's "free" shit. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" No thank you. How about "Don't Tread on Me!"

"When people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." -Thomas Jefferson

@92BuickLeSabre: Sorry to say it but you are wrong on point #2. Power that is not explicitly granted ENDS UP being granted by default, because lawyers will always find what they want in ANY law unless the law explicitly and specifically forbids it. Just take one look at the second amendment..it states that people have a right to bear arms and 4 of 9 supreme court justices were prepared to pretty much eliminate it....that is not good because it means that 4 judges say the law says one thing and 5 say otherwise..if such a plainly worded statement as the second amendment can be parsed and torn apart...imagine what they could do with a vague law.

BUT HE'S A COMMIE NAZI THAT WANTS TO ABORT ALL THE BABY JESUSES!!!!!!

@Russell Lynn: mediocre... yeah I think you need to travel more like to the real world.

@Voyou_Charmant: Are you saying you thing "free" healthcare is actually free? Where do you think the money will come from?

Steeplebomb

@Russell Lynn: Do you know how much of a pain it would be to call all the companies up to just "pull the plug"? Really now think a bit.

I was going to throw my two cents into this debate, but then, after reading all of the comments, I realized that it would be an act of futility. Those who trust the government don't see anything wrong with this bill, while those that don't trust do. If that is no why you feel the way that you feel, then I apologize. All of us have come to our opinions through our own self-examination of the facts as we see them.

Then in the middle this forum devolved into a health care debate where anecdotal evidence was thrown around like a fact and then we were suddenly invaded by face huggers and Aliens.

Rather than throwing around my own opinions, I have a couple of questions to ask:

1) Before you decide if this bill, or any bill that grants extensions on governmental powers, is a good thing, ask if you would want a GOP president and GOP congress to have these powers (Or vice versa if you lean more conservative).

2) Is peace and security more important than liberty and Freedom?

3) Would a business without government regulation be better or worse for the population and environment?

4) Neglecting the fact that most countries in the world have price caps on medical procedures, why is the US Health Care system the most expensive?

Just some thoughts.

SkippyTheMarine

@Russell Lynn: Um the US makes up the UN. Last I looked the headquarters of the UN ARE in the US, unless NYC suddenly became a new country.

And your right it gave points to having a option, because THEY HAVE the option. We have nothing. Who cares how good it is if you at least have the option of having health care, or dying a slow painful death because civilized life is beyond your means.

And your last paragraph is moronic. We dont give everyone the best, if we did we wouldn't be having this debate. Even PAID PRIVATE healthcare in the US is considered worse than most nations. I pay thousands a year for my company, yet one of our employees now has to shell out thousands because while the surgeon on a necessary surgery was covered, the anesthesiologist wasn't. Our health care is a disaster, only someone blind to the truth of the matter would EVER say it is the best.

Jim Topoleski

@mikieed: if Liberals are dumb, then what are Republicans? Mentally retarded? All you have to do is go read some comments on Fox News to grasp how insanely STUPID the republican following is. I'm personally independent in choice, but I'll side with the left for now. Especially after seeing the idiotic actions of the Republican party.

imTheKing

@92BuickLeSabre: How can you believe this? I can think of multiple examples where a vague law has led to executive abuse. How about Nixon's manipulation of executive privilege? How about W's expansion of executive war powers? If a law like this passes, than its up to the executive branch to interpret it, and I don't see anyone, regardless of party, erring on the side of too little power.

Steeplebomb

Ok--I'LL say it: We all know the first time obama gets the notion that the people don't like him, or are talking bad about him ( already told you to report them )---he will pull the plug.
The only way we will be able to communicate will be like Paul Revere did.

I can see it now: " OK guys, they are rising up against me---the presidency is in jeapardy---national emergency---shut it down now!"

Talk about shutting people up....duh!

jr

GodwinLycus

@Voyou_Charmant: Off-topic but calling someone simply an idiot doesn't make you right. The fact is that many corporations are moving their facilities to other countries due to heavy taxation in the United States. His arguement may be off-topic but not an idiot.

@Russell Lynn: If there was a massive DDoS on our network infastructure itself, coming from some botnet in Europe, the government would be able to disconnect all European connections to maintain the functionality of the US network, rather than have no networking.

@Ybother: Hmm... 25-40% of your hard earned money. Sounds like Fidelity or E*Trade's fee policy to me.

Besides, if you don't pay taxes, how are you going to drive your truck around? How much did I-40 cost? Or maybe your for turning all of our highways into Toll roads to pay for it. Do you think roads build themselves? How about your national defense? One F-22 costs $500 Million. Nearly $2/person in the US. How do we pay for that without taxes? Or how about Social Security or Medicare? We'll see how many Tea-Baggers show up at townhalls if republicans tried to take those away. And guess what SS and Medicare cost a lot of money. That money comes from Taxes. Or how about turning on your drinking water? What, you thought that you $20/month water bill paid for your 10,000 gallons of potable water? Yeah, just try to go to Wal-mart and buy 10,000 gallons of water for $20. How about 911 service, police service, fire service, prisons, immigration, etc. etc. etc. IT'S TAXES THAT PAY FOR THESE THINGS!

If you hate taxes so much, I suggest that you try, for one month, not to use any of the free services offered to you by the Government. That means you can't use any roads. You can't call 911 in an emergency. You can't drink water from the tap (or even cheap bottled water for that matter, as it is just tap water.) No garbage collection. No sewer. One month. Best of luck.

dallasmay

@Gormania:

And everyone here in the US has family members who would have died without our health care system as well.

NHS is the largest employer in Britain. I'm going off the top of my head here, but I believe it's like 1.3 million employees, most of whom are administrators. I believe that the NHS is the third largest employer in the world. They are choking your government to death and Britain is but a tiny country in comparison to the United States.

That doesn't even go into the denial of expensive drugs and care for the elderly that goes on.

drewls

@drewls: *sigh* Well, I apologize for my obvious lack of knowledge about anything.

A couple of notes, however. (1) I am making the idiotic assumption that this edited paragraph is not the entire bill. (2) Actually, powers not explicitly granted are not granted by default. Statutory interpretation is not, in fact, governed by the "OMG! Mom didn't say we couldn't principle."

Does that mean that an executive couldn't choose to "interpret" the law to do whatever the hell they want to do? Of course not, but they don't need this bill, which contains limiting language, to do that. They could just yell "National Security! National Security!" and do it anyway.

They do that with Wars all the time, even when they don't have authority to do so.

But thank you for calling me a slave-in-waiting. It was the first time I'd ever been called that, and I live for new experiences.

@Voyou_Charmant:

Why did Obama say that he wanted a 'civilian national security force' that is 'just as well funded as our military'?

Here he is saying it in his own words:

[www.youtube.com]

It's possible there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why he felt the need to call for such a thing. And the huge expansion of Americorp could be a coincidence as well.

But why did he say that? Who are they going to be fighting? Who is the enemy? What is the emergency that warrants such a force? IS Americorp going to be made into that force?

These are reasonable questions given the quote from Obama and the recent expansion of Americorp. Reasonable answers from Obama would be nice.

drewls

@gaiking: I told my girlfriend that we should go to an anti Iraq war rally this weekend than I remembered those were only around when Evil Bush was in office. Now that cool guy is in charge its not a problem anymore? The same shit is going on with Obama as the president.

LEWD98

@92BuickLeSabre: Are you kidding? The more vague a law is, the more power it gives to the enforcers of the law. A law like this, if one is to be enacted at all, MUST be VERY specific as to what CAN and CANNOT be done.

So, apparently, you blindly trust the government to have good intentions with regard to enforcing a vague law that gives blanket power. If you had any knowledge of world history or even US history, you'd be quite leery of such things.

As a citizen, you should question the government no matter what 'party' controls it. Otherwise, you're nothing but a slave-in-waiting.

drewls

@sumocat: The nerve of these guys.

I am happy to hear it was "softened", but saying it was NOT TRUE is a lie, it was true until they changed it. Just like there was an ambiguous section of HR3200 about panels that help decide your healthcare options and one on end-of-life care that was not spelled out plainly enough until they removed it.

I still don't know that the President or any government official needs access to private networks. If its a dire threat you call the company and they pull the plug.

Russell Lynn

@Voyou_Charmant: Well, yes. You've obviously proven here that you are the standard liberal-brainwashed drone. No use talking to you, since whatever you have there to function as a mind is made up, and cannot be allowed to be confused with some real facts.

Ybother

@Jim Topoleski: Because the countries that make up the UN are not biased against the US at all right?

That report gave automatic points to countries with a public option because it was not about how GOOD the healthcare was it was about AVAILABILITY.

Give everyone mediocre at best health care and you go to the top of the list. Give all but 10 - 30 Mil people the best and you are near the bottom.

Russell Lynn

@dallasmay: What do you call forcing you to fork over 25-40% of your hard-earned money and then either wasting it on $5000 screwdrivers or benefits to illegal non-citizens? In plain English, that's called robbery. Not theft, but robbery, since theft is done on the sly, and robbery is forcing you to give up the goods at (figurative) gunpoint.
You may not be "singled out" by the government, but mass robbery doesn't make it less of a robbery.

And, while you still have recourse against a private business be it by going to small-claims, or simply stopping to do business with them (and letting all your friends know about it), go try to do something about the unfairness of government...

Ybother

@Darklighter: You mean he's a quack?

(Eh? Eh? Canard? Quack? Ahhh, I love the word canard.)

@Voyou_Charmant: Alas to the young, being force fed media dribble, unable to think for themselves. Alas to the old finding themselves in a world that only vaguely resembles the one they remember. Alas to the middle-aged, the 70s really fucked them up.

Woe to the world begotten by greed covered in rampant tyranny. Gone is the once mighty republic, catering now to the needs of the vocal few while the many suffer in stoic silence. Gone is the once proud nation governed by ideas rather than televised popularity. The cancer spreads under the mountain of debt until at last it ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.

RStormgull

@gaiking: How? These important words "help" "direct" "the national response" "in coordination with relevant industry sectors."

However, if you are going to base your opinion on what is not said, and therefore on what does not exist, well, there's not really any way for me to counter that, is there? So, kudos. By citing directly to your own imagination, you do, in fact, win.

@92BuickLeSabre: He's propagating the old canard about how everybody can go to the emergency room. I think. Or he could just be nuts.

@The_Gas_Man: There is no free market for health insurance. There never will be. The barriers to entry are too high.

the president could "order the limitation or shutdown of Internet traffic to and from any compromised Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information system or network."

Meaning if a Critical network is being hacked then the President can shut down any tragic in and out of that particular network to control damage to the network. What is bad about that?

Next you'll be telling us he doesn't want to kill old people or that he wasn't born in Kenya.

sumocat

@EpiphyteCorp.: Oh gees... Its like that classic The Simpsons episode where they shut down Krusty the Klown and all of a sudden all the kids are outside playing, having fun, making friends, with rainbows and butterflies and the moment the show starts up again, the playgrounds are empty and all the kids are back inside again.

tenazrael

@waltcoleman: (1) is both (2) is left (3) is true (4) is not one I'd heard before.

More importantly? I would have said "No shit the executive branch should be able to coordinate public and private efforts in the case of an emergency. It's their job."

Hell, I wish post-Katrina the Bush Admin had taken control and coordinated anything other than delivering trailers to the wrong place at the wrong time.

@92BuickLeSabre: "In the event of an immediate threat to strategic national interests involving compromised Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information system or network" help to "direct the national response" to a crisis, "in coordination with relevant industry sectors."

and how is the above saying he cannot seize control?...what it doesn't say is as important as what it does.

@SGTalon: ..."Every American DOES have health care."

"Every American DOES have health care."

"Every American DOES have health care."

I've read it three times, and I still can't figure out what even remotely accurate thing you could be saying.

@Kaiser-Machead: I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

coyote1284: P.E.T.U.

@Hiphopopotamus: Why would they need internet access. It's just going to be a bunch of guys with wagons, cruising Florida shouting "Bring Out Your Dead!"

@waltcoleman: The nutjobs you cited aren't specifically left wing.

takeshi

@SGTalon: In this economy I can't afford Kool-Aid, I have to settle with Flav-o-aid.

coyote1284: P.E.T.U.

@drewls: Read first. Comment second.

I wonder how the complete psychopaths on the left (9-11 was an inside job, Bush stole 2 elections, Bush is stealing oil in Iraq, Cheney is hiding Bin Laden until days before the election) would feel if the Bush admin and the Republicans had proposed the same legislation?

@tenazrael: Give the govt. an inch of power and it shall take 10,000 miles.

@Rabid Penguin: Yeah.. you havn't had a serious, non-profitable illness or injury yet, have you? Consider that you have no right to healthcare -it's a privilegde, and you're correct, it can't be taken away. It's the law to insure your car, not you... something is seriously wrong.

Denver80203

@coyote1284: P.E.T.U.: and also kinda prove the point of the original poster based on the basis of the comments.

Jim Topoleski

@Sollus: I'm surprised your comment got promoted. Especially considering that the first article about this topic clearly stated some scary sh!t. Just because a second article comes out that says they will "soften" the bill doesn't exactly take my fears away.

tenazrael

@drewls: Agreed....the hypocrisy with this guys followers is profound...if any Republican tried this I would be equally enraged.

@D.E.P.C.: I want your body.: You sir are ignorant for asking such a question. Of course there are no ignorant people on the left... never have been, never will be.

tenazrael

so all he gets to do is unplug the government's computers from outside networks when they get attacked?
but that means he's not trying to steal it from us!

noinamg

@D.E.P.C.: I want your body.: ....good grief your profile name made my response look creepy.

@Sollus: +1

Denver80203

@The_Gas_Man: The original comment wasn't about healthcare in the first place. It was about how uneducated people will continue to believe what they are told by their "trusted news source" in spite of a contradictory reality. Way to attack one part of a comment and completely disregard the entire point.

coyote1284: P.E.T.U.

@Jstick:

Wow! Senator Olympia Snowe right here on Gizmodo! Welcome, Senator Snowe!

drewls

@D.E.P.C.: I want your body.: no there cant be ...because lefties think EVERYONE ELSE is ignorant.

Ahh, so it's all okay unless he 'may' 'find it necessary'...what a bunch of useful idiot ass covering nonsense this article is.

If George W. Bush had tried any of this bozo crap, people here would be whipped up into a frenzy over it. Well, it's time people grew up and realized that government power grabs are to be fought, regardless of whether or not 'your guy' or 'your party' wants them.

drewls

I always thought Obama and Myles Dyson looked way too much alike. ...Ah T-800....you are so insightful.

Seeing as this has turned into yet another health care debate, I'd just like to say I live in England and health care won't bring about the apocolypse. In fact, I have family members who would have died without NHS care.

Ask Stephen Hawking, he'll agree.

Gormania

@Voyou_Charmant: Truer words haven't been spoken.

The German Socialist Party thought their country was in crisis when they took over the auto, banking, and health care industry too. Jews were dirty and going to be a burden to the system.

It's all about the definition of "help to" and "crisis".

CEOself

@2-7offsuit is ioos: How scary would that be? You look up foot fungus and get a page "it's time for you to die," it prints out a prescription, and says "take this to your nearest pharmacy for your death pill, the authorities will dispose of your body."

Obama passes the SkyNet bill?

and btw, Sean Fallon - really taking credit for that photochop up there? Looks like it took about 2 minutes to slap together. Adding the signature probably took the most time.

@Sollus: Is there anyone ignorant on the left? Just curious.

@SJRNWT: Every American DOES have health care.

OOOOOhhh what you mean is you want ME to pay for everyone ELSE to have health care.

SGTalon

@Rabid Penguin: So when an insurance company denies you coverage on some technicality (a fact that bankrupts or even kills hundreds of thousands of Americans every year), you don't see that as, in effect "taking away" your right to access affordable health care?

The belief that companies are benevolent is what is naive. Companies are profit-seeking entities and nothing more -- and that's great, it provides for tremendous innovation and growth. But it also means that people on the fringes of society (ie, those who cannot afford private health care) can lost in the mix. All that Obama is proposing is that there is a cheap public option for those on the fringes of society so they can purchase adequate health insurance for their families.

You are setting it up as some sort of all-or-nothing- division between "the private market" and "government controlling everything". It's simply not true. It's no different than the government directing where roads and streets go instead of leaving it only to private companies to build for-profit roads (and thus build them only where there are lots of people).

This really isn't that difficult, people. Get a grip.

anfield

@Hiphopopotamus: Of course. I assumed WebMD was the Death Panel.

@fargi:

Look at the social Security mess, now imagine what will happen when these incompetents get a hold of Medical care

THAT is what many of us are scared of, they can't manage a simple retirement system, how can they manage something infinitely more complex?

zophiel

@fargi: Private organizations can't take away your rights, they can't tax you, they can't imprison you, they can't force you to do anything you don't want to do. If I don't want to support one company I can choose to support another, and private orgs cant do a damn thing about it. Government is a different beast altogether... if you don't realize that you're... well, naive, odd, crazy...

Though I probably shouldn't have even responded to "Voyou_Charmant." This thread was supposed to be about Obamanet, not Obamacare. I apologize.

"[the] shutdown of Internet traffic to and from any compromised Federal Government or United States critical infrastructure information system or network."

CAN THEY NOT DO THAT NOW? Seriously, I'm yelling that. If a system is compromised, what's the first thing you do? Pull it from the 'net. There needs to be a bill that permits the President to do this? What?

Ayeco

@Sollus: yea and I am sure they are on Giz... I am a republican and this article was informative.

Jstick

@Rabid Penguin: Why do people consider they are more free leaving things in the hands of private corporations instead of leaving it to a government?

fargi

This article is pointless because the complete psychopaths that are out there(birthers, truthers, extreme right neo-cons) have already made up their mind about what this means. Which is unfortunate that ignorance is king in this country.

Sollus

"We have to hack the internets!"

"Which ones?"

"All of them!"

jmeltzer

@The_Gas_Man: "1) No one is against "affordable health care", and 2) "affordable health care" is possible in both the free market and otherwise."

We have had a a century for this to be a true statement.

Guess what, it isn't and has never been. We have old people running the boarder to CANADA because the US healthcare system is so awful. We have the worst and least affordable health care system in the entire industrialized world. Thats not democratic spin, that is actual FACT provided by a UN committee that was created to study that.

So no free market can not provide affordable healthcare. It has had many many years to try, and has failed every single time. You can never expect a market thats whole premise in existing is screwing people out of as much money as possible to provide something that is a basic need.

Jim Topoleski

Hey, let's have this discussion dissolve into an off-topic shitfest of partisan bickering, centering on healthcare!

Oh wait. It already has.

Segador

All these Dumb Liberals hate Savage/Beck/Limbaugh/Hannity. Lol i think its so funny that you are scared of the Truth. Obama's Health care bill will only Limit your freedom, your choices, and will enforce more goverment control over you. Real america Doesn't want this Disaster they call reform.

mikieed

In times of an emergency, the Health Care Death Panels will still have internet access, yes?

@Rabid Penguin: I'd say he was quieter, and only middling dishonest, as required by politics. More honest than his competition, but saying one politician is more honest than another is like saying that one kettle is blacker than another...they're both pots.

All_Thumbs - R.O.A.C.H.

@Voyou_Charmant: "and that affordable health care is taking away our liberties"
You've certainly downed a few glasses of Kool-Aid yourself if you think "affordable health care" is a synonym for "socialized health care".

1) No one is against "affordable health care", and 2) "affordable health care" is possible in both the free market and otherwise.

Either way, they have nothing to do with this article. Giz is the one who reported on it before, and they've screwed up their update to the story by claiming the original story wasn't true (it was, until the bill was revised).

The_Gas_Man

This picture is disturbing. i cant look at the president in a "Tee Hee" pose.

@Voyou_Charmant: I don't think there is anyone saying there's anything wrong with having affordable health care. They're against government controlled, and government run health care.

"no matter what it is will be explained to the dumbest by the loudest in the most dishonest terms possible."

That's probably how Obama got elected then huh? He was louder and more dishonest than the rest.

@ospreyguy: And he would do it at the behest of the security experts working for the banks.

worsethannormal

@SGTalon: Aside from being bizarrely off topic, you're simply an idiot. No time spent explaining just how stupid you are would change the fact that your brain doesnt-fucking-work.

@ospreyguy: I don't see that in there anywhere, but again "Right to bear arms" could mean that you don't have the right to own guns but you have the right to hang mounted bear arms on your wall...interpretations suck.

Side note about your name: We've got a pair of osprey that nest here. I set up a crappy camera to watch them.

Joseph_Shaw_520

If the US hijacks the internet, they will be just as bad as Iran (whom they love and praise so much for doing the same thing).

ploopsy

@soulfinger: Um, I don't see the feds handing out candy when you make a deposit/withdrawal.

@BergenCountyJC: 1969 WOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! YEAH!

Doesn't even matter.

When there are people like Glenn Beck and Michael Savage saying that AmeriCorps is pretty much Obama's personal SS and that affordable health care is taking away our liberties and people continue to listen to it, literally anything, no matter what it is will be explained to the dumbest by the loudest in the most dishonest terms possible.

So basically it allows the president to pull federal networks and infrastructure off the internet in the case of an emergency.

+1 for the picture.

kingbob337

@dallasmay: I can... but then again I work for government.

@SJRNWT: I'm far too sober to talk politics. Next topic Giz!

EpiphyteCorp.

@Geisrud: That would certainly be a force to be reckoned with. May the Gods have mercy upon those bureaucrat's souls should it ever come to light.

EpiphyteCorp.

@Kaiser-Machead: Game-over man, game-over!

Courteous_Gentleman

The thing is...

The chances of Obama pulling some switch and turning off the internet are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... so so so soooooooooooo low, it astounds me that people in America make such a big deal out of it.

There's much bigger issues that need to be solved, like health care for every American.

I know an issue like this is entitled to it's news time but I think it's gotten too much attention.

But that's just me.. lol

SJRNWT

@Joseph_Shaw_520: The problem is/was that a business only does that for their own information. This has the potential for Big O to say "Oh man that crazy hacker has threatened a bank, SHUT DOWN ALL INTERNET BANKING FOR ALL BANKS!!!" Thus bringing the entire banking system to a hault, including stock trading and all ATMs...

ospreyguy

@MostlyHarmless: Healthcare debate - ever heard of it?

Sadly there's a large number of folks that are already beyond the deep end and looking for anything to blow up over.

@Daemonicus: In my experience, it has typically been quite the opposite. Can you tell me a time when you were unfairly singled out by the government? I can give you LOTS of times where I was unfairly treated by private businesses.

dallasmay

@rimshot515:

As long as everyone gets "free" healthcare, food, money, rent who cares what it takes right?

I hate freeloaders. Get a job losers!

Oh wait we can't they are all being taxed into oblivion to pay for all this free stuff.

SGTalon

Whether you buy into the hysteria or not, the mere fact that the hype even exists reminds me of this classic scene.

EpiphyteCorp.

It's stuff like this that make me realize that the Amish must be getting it right after all.

reddingofish

@OCEntertainment:

Drink some more coolaid fanboi!

SGTalon

This sounds like a description of the events leading up to the plot of Die Hard 4.

Hello Mister Walrus

@rimshot515: Benjamin Franklin never had to fight the Xenomorph. I'm just gonna throw my obligatory "Fuck the Patriot Act" in there for good measure.

Kaiser-Machead

@soulfinger: Actually we do hear people complaining about that. But we have laws so weak in that sector that we can't do anything about it.

dallasmay

"It doesn't matter what the bill actually says, all that matters is what I believe it says."
-Steven Colbert

dallasmay

@soulfinger: indeed but at least the banks sweet talk u and use lube while bending u over .... the gov't is usually not that nice lol

@MostlyHarmless: Well, considering "some" are still ranting about death panels, my guess is that they will run with this for as long as humanly possible....

Solange82200

@thechansen: Can we start calling it Mobile OSX?: Oh yes, they will... just watch.

aec007

@thechansen: Can we start calling it Mobile OSX?: i see what u did there =] lol

@Kaiser-Machead: "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin
(cough cough Patriot Act cough)

As long as the WoW servers are unaffected, everything will be okay.

@MostlyHarmless: I'm sure I'll get an email from my crazy wingnut aunt in about 6 months claiming "OBAMA WANTS TO STEAL YOUR NETZ OH NOES! SCARY ELEVENTY!!!"

soulfinger

@Daemonicus: You're being screwed by the big banking system every day. I don't hear people complaining about that?

soulfinger

Ahhh the politics of fear.

Next the will come for our guns....

/facepalm

@OCEntertainment: I agree. I see that as nothing any corperation wouldn't do. Sounds like they just want to make sure they can pull the plug on information thats been compromised. Lots of public sector places do that already. I know if a box here is compromised first thing we do is pull it off the network to prevent other stuff from getting hacked.

Joseph_Shaw_520

1984

BergenCountyJC

yes, but much like anything else the US words oddly and open to interpretation will be used to somehow screw ppl in the long run lol

I fail to see how even the original language of the bill, unaffected by Senate procedure, implied that Obama (or his administration, or any political figure) could've "shut down the internet". In any case, thanks guys for clearing up this little mess.

Side note: That picture still rules.

I wonder how many will still rant about the bill (if and when it gets signed) over the language that simply is not in there.

You know, if the Xenomorph were to tear-ass through the nation's capital, and my iGoogle page suddenly had a flashing banner saying "OH SHIT WE ARE FUCKED", I don't think I'd complain about privacy or overreaching powers.

Kaiser-Machead

@Rabid Penguin: Oh yeah? You think so huh?? Then answer this:

How can you argue against socialized health care, yet show no sign of anger towards the socialized military companies that stole billions of dollars in Iraq?

Do you have even the faintest notion of how the federal budget is allocated?

Hey the free healthcare veterans receive is well deserved and yet the government sucks at providing health care to them. Healthcare is not a prilage to unproductive fat americans or illegal immigrants! its for hard working AMERICANS!

MargaretGlabrio

@Rabid Penguin: However, while we're on the subject of roads, do the roads really need to be closed for maintenance 364 days a year? That seems like a waste of tax payer money. Why tear of a perfectly good road to put a perfectly good road in it's place only to tear it up again the next day? The government can't run anything efficiently, effectively, or without hemorrhaging money... let's give 'em health care.

@92BuickLeSabre: "And if you honestly believe that no safety net, no public education, no highways - none of the things that are necessary to hold us together - are important"

And I didn't say none of those things are important to me. I just said the federal government should stay out of most of it, and leave it to the states, local governments, and the people. I don't think the federal government should be involved in education. But should the federal government be involved in making interstate highways? Yes.

@92BuickLeSabre: (administers heart-click)

drjayphd

@92BuickLeSabre: I was tired when I wrote that ditty too. But I thought it was humorous... but everything is funny when it's late.

I guess I believe that it's more Christian, more moral, more humane, more decent, and more American, for an individual to willingly donate his time or money to a cause rather than having the Government force him too. We do look out for each other, and we do so without the need for legislated theft.

We are citizens of one nation, but there is also a reason why we are still broken up into states with separate state and local governments. If one state says you can carry concealed weapons, and another state says you can't and that's important to you, you can move. But whenever the Federal government imposes something you have just lost that freedom to move... everyone is equally screwed.

The federal government should not be running our health care, or the auto industry, or most of the things it runs. That is not the job of the federal government. Shouldn't this stuff be left up to the states and the people within those states?

@Rob Yeahok: Scaremongering is pretty toolish, don't you think?

Dont be a tool. Obama will use that weeeee lil provision to do just like Bush did with the terrorist threat level scheme.

They flip the switch when its politically expedient.

Dont be a tool.

Rob Yeahok