News Flash: Palm Pre Syncing Borked By iTunes 9

@ivealwaysgotmail10: umm, you do realize that you can still put music purchased in iTunes on your pre right? You just can't sync it directly with itunes. It's really not that big of a deal.

I do think Apple is being kinda juvenile though. I don't really see how it hurts them to allow the pre or other devices to sync with itunes

crsrc

@Kaiser-Machead: Yackety Shmackety... I LOVE that song!

@MTBVibe: Cause as Sprint users, they are pussies.

@crsrc: As much as I agree with your comment, iPhone should be syncing this data in the cloud like Android does for its contacts.

JunoonX

@ivealwaysgotmail10: Until the Justice Department gets involved, Steve & Co will continue down the Microsoft road (well, arguably - going further than Microsoft ever did) of blocking out all competitors. Admittedly, while Microsoft never blocked software from running on Windows, they certainly did everything in their power to make it inconvenient. Apple uses their iTunes monopoly to control the market, and until the government gets involved, they will continue to do so.

As others (Apple fans, primarily) have said, Apple has every right to block the Pre from working, and has a financial reason (iPhone) to do so. We can argue that they have a monopoly and are using that competitive advantage to force their hardware on folks, but that argument is meaningless unless the government believes there is something to investigate. And, if they did, it would be years down the road before anything would be corrected.

All of which is to say, we can be upset with Apple for doing this, but they will fight to keep their iTunes software an Apple-hardware only piece of "free" software.

@anexanhume: hah. You've earned a heart. Keep up the good work!

@anexanhume: Haha you sir will burn in hell. :D

I can't sync my old Creative Zen with iTunes or the Zune software, can't sync my Zune 80 with iTunes, and can't sync my (inherited) iPod Nano with the Zune software...so why exactly does this have Palm Pre owners all up in arms?

MTBVibe

@Eruanno: As long as you backup your phone every once in a while you're good to go. If you don't, well, you need a lesson on using computers

crsrc

@ivealwaysgotmail10: So are you saying that I should be able to pump BP gas at a Citgo station, cause otherwise, that's stifling competition? Apple doesn't owe palm shit, except possibly a lawsuit. Couldn't Palm lose it's USB cert. by pulling this shit?

*sigh*

There's a reason they continued making games after Pong. Watching stuff go back and forth over and over again is *boring*.

This is like a World of Warcraft mod developer complaining that a WoW update made their mod stop working...

Curtis Dietrick

@bazookafox:

@moonphrogg: drag and drop doesn't organize hundreds of gigabytes of music very well.

@Sir Gibler: Thank you! I don't understand why people think other companies should have the right to use Apple's proprietary software? Hire a damn software developer!

Apple isn't responsible for unsupported third-party hardware and blah blah blah yackety shmackety.

And for further news, OS 3.1 made my iPhone 3G go bork, and needs to go through a factory reset. Oh joy!
I wonder if my contacts will go bye-bye now, I haven't done a factory reset before. Hope not O.o

Okay, So Apple isnt anti-competitive by locking the best iphone competitor out of the worlds #1 music purchasing and downloading software?

Palm has a really good point here, iTunes is synonomous with music now and its even unprotected now... so what exactly is the reason apple would lock the Pre out other than to force them down a path they know is impossible? (writing their own itunes alternative and launching yet another music store!)

ivealwaysgotmail10

or just dump itunes altogether. I'm all about the drag-n-drop, personally. Don't get me wrong, I'm a lover of most things apple, itunes just isn't one of them.

moonphrogg

Bork bork!

@appletoad: exactly! palm needs to grow a pair and move on. they need to make something like blackberry desktop manager that can import the music from itunes.

This is starting to feel like the Rhapsody syncing wars again.

It is getting old. Apple should just sue and deliver the KO. Palm is illegally tampering with the USB standard and committing forgery by emulating an iPod and embedding Apple's unique USB identifier.

Go ahead and bitch, but Palm simply doesn't have a right to iTunes' functionality. Make your own UI.

I mean, c'mon..... Who DIDNT see that coming?

bazookafox

@crsrc:

As said above. List everything Apple should do with an Iphone, then go read precentral.net.

You will see a better product, more open company and better user experience.

grubish1

@appletoad: No, he's saying he shouldn't have to go to a Toyota gas station to fill up his Corolla. It shouldn't be a problem to fill up at GM, VW, Mercedes, or wherever.

As far as I'm concerned Apple has no obligation to ensure compatibility with non-apple devices, but intentionally locking them out is Bullsh*t.

something_unique_and_descriptive

@JunoonX:
Palm does this too.

grubish1

@MTBVibe:
as said above, I love it when they break the syncing. I get a better OS withing a few days!

grubish1

I love it when they update Itunes! It means I get new Palm pre features. OS 1.2 it by far better than the Icrap 3GS. Gimme a little better copy and paste (which is coming once they hack this) and the palm phone has the best OS period.

I consider myself an expert on mobile OS's since I work on them every day for work.

Flame on Iphucks!

grubish1

@crsrc: Well, as it turns out it automatically backs up when you plug it in, so I had a copy of everything from 10 minutes back.
All I have to do is put all my music and applications back, which is fine. Remembering all my contacts (and their phone numbers etc.) would've been more of a pain.

@appletoad: because some people use iTunes as their proprietary Media player and sync option. Sure there are work arounds, like doubletwist, but some people A) don't know about it and or B) Aren't that smart with tech to figure it out.

Though iTunes blows on PC, it is a great player on Mac.

Matthew Rebmann

why does this even matter? just use doubletwist.

lostlikeme

If you have music or videos or whatever on iTunes, I say Pre owners should just go with doubleTwist. It can access iTunes playlists and whatnot, AND it will sync with your Pre.

Boom. Problem solved.

electrolemon

Palm update to fix the issue, coming in 3...2...1...

@Monty:

Apple only has a monopoly if they are preventing Palm from creating Pre-tunes software / Pre music store / Pre app store. Palm is just looking for a free ride for an also ran company.

Yeah, I didn't agree with the MS IE antitrust suits and EU Intel ruling either.

Kingteddybear

@ivealwaysgotmail10: If Palm had their proverbial act together they would develop an app like Simplify that lets you get at the non DRM music without direct contact to iTunes.

@anexanhume: *golf clap*

@appletoad: "So are you saying that I should be able to pump BP gas at a Citgo station, cause otherwise, that's stifling competition?"

I'm....not even really sure what point you're *trying* to make here.

@Monty: iTunes is a piece of software designed by Apple originally for the playback and syncing of music on an Apple computer. Then came the Apple iPod, and iTunes gained another purpose, syncing the iPod. After popular demand peaked, Apple released iTunes for windows, for the purpose of Syncing your iPods. Then comes the iTunes music store, a way to purchase music conveniently.

Your argument would be valid IF Apple was blocking the Pre from being able to be synced from a Mac, iTunes or not. This is nothing like the browser problem. Windows DOESN'T have to let devs have access to Windows Media, they do it because otherwise it would be a business failure. Apple can, and will, do fine without a couple palm pre users.

@appletoad: Good luck with that lawsuit. Apple infringes on enough Palm IP to make life hell for Jobs and Co....

tnt-tek

@ivealwaysgotmail10: Actually, what Palm might be better served in doing is tying into Amazon's store - between them and Android, that would make it a real competitor to iTunes and undermine Apples only real competitive advantage...

Timothy Collins

@JunoonX: of course, we could sit here and name the things the iphone "should" do all day. Same goes for every other smart phone.

My guess is Apple has yet to get assurance from apple that apple won't be using users contacts for nefarious purposes though.

crsrc

@appletoad: Right, and why should Microsoft be forced to allow competitors to their web browser, Windows Media Player, and Microsoft Office software to run on Windows? Oh ... Wait.

I agree that Palm has no more "right" to tie their product to iTunes than any company has a "right" to design software to run on Windows. The USB argument is silliness since that is irrelevant to the core discussion here.

That said, Apple certainly has every right to block Palm and will continue to do so. Thank goodness Microsoft is not being allowed to pull similar tricks thanks to the EU.

@OCEntertainment: Well said. I really don't get why Palm Pre owners would even want iTunes, if it's not mandatory. That's like offering a kick in the balls as a feature.

@zeroprime: Last time I checked, Apple wasn't in the business of writing software to sell Palm hardware.

Nathan Chalmers

@MTBVibe: Because apple goes out of its way to break something that works, rather than just letting users know that they're SOL if something unintentionally breaks it.

See, there is a legitimate reason why one company wouldn't want to support another company interfacing with their product, that being they don't want to worry about every little update they do on their end potentially borking that interfacing. So the legit thing to do is say "We don't support other products" and carry on like normal.

When Palm got their device to synch with iTunes, Apple quickly released an update with the sole intent of breaking this (dick move). And now apple is fucked because of that dick move, because every update from here on out that breaks the Pre sync with iTunes is viewed as Apple intentionally going out of their way (again) to be a dick (whether they really did or not).

@Monty:

Do you think Palm has the right to block Itunes from syncing to the PRE?

grubish1

@appletoad: i'm guessing that you're calling them that because it's something you don't get any of.

PaddyDugan

@appletoad:

So, as I understand your comment, You dont actually own the rights to your music? The USB standard means that you should be able to push files to ANY device. If I buy Citgo gas, my car doesnt stop running when I pull into a BP.

grubish1

@Die Fledermaus:

Pointless. If you own a song, dont you have the right to play it where and how you choose?

grubish1

@Die Fledermaus: Just what I don't want, another Media jukebox to keep up with. I already have to import my purchased music into 2 different apps to use my 2 different mp3 players, lets make it 3 for my cell phone!

@appletoad:

I think you mean apple losing it's USB certification for blocking other USB devices? "If" i were to buy music through Itunes,
I would want to use the music anywhere I want.

grubish1

@Timothy Collins: The Amazon MP3 store is already a part of the Pre.

@grubish1: Pointless. Apple doesn't keep you from doing so.

apus

@zeroprime: If Apple just let it ride, and then someday did something that broke it, the expectation would have been set that Apple was supporting the Palm hardware and so it was their fault it broke.

Better to make it clear, "We don't support this, it's not going to work and if it does for now it won't for long" then find themselves with unmet expectations.

And all Palm has to do is to write software that reads the Apple iTunes library (the structure is commonly known and stable, other programs do this) and sync it. And all problems are gone.

@grubish1: no I won't. It's preference. I could make a longer list of stuff the pre doesn't do but the iPhone does. but I'm sure you'd tell me my opinion is wrong so I'm not gonna bother. Anyone that truly argues the iPhone is inferior than the pre is purely going on bias. They are different and they each have their strengths and weaknesses.

crsrc

No surprise. The Palm update was delayed, very likely just because they anticipated this and want to have the fix in 1.2.

I'm sure Apple isn't done either, of course.

I find it vaguely amusing, I guess, although I don't use iTunes so it doesn't really matter to me.

jdale

It's not like they can't just get their own syncing software that uses iTunes... or just let you freaking create playlists.... C'mon, Palm. This is silly.

dcdttu

The only way this upsets me is that it delayed webOS 1.2 from being released. I couldn't care less about iTunes.

ackthbbft

Who cares?

slackinfux

@grubish1: You can still push files to a Pre -- including music files -- just not through Apple's proprietary iTunes software.

I don't necessarily agree with Apple's decision here, but they have no legal obligation to support the Pre in iTunes. If I were an Apple shareholder, I'd probably applaud this policy.

I don't see how this is going to change unless they get paid somehow. iTunes syncing is part of the feature set of the iPod/iPhone -- allowing Palm access to that feature for free would dilute their ability to sell the products. To offset those lost sales, they'd have to monetize the decision somehow. They could charge Palm a licensing fee to use the software and advertise this feature, or they could charge end-users for the iTunes software.

I sort of like the licensing option, but sharing the iTunes sync standard opens up some additional issues for Apple. For on thing, once you share a standard, you now have third parties to whom you must communicate any changes in that standard. Suddenly, it becomes much harder to add new features because you have so many more entities to bring on board with the changes.

And charging end-users won't work either. It's been free for too long to start charging now, not to mention the fact that they'd be giving it away for free left and right to every buyer of either an iPod/iPhone or any Mac. Besides that, I think ubiquity is part of the game plan for iTunes.

As to whether there is a monopoly issue at play here, that's for the courts to decide. I'm not sure how that would play out.

Ideally, I'd like to see Apple retain developmental control of iTunes syncing, but publish APIs for people to share some of its core features. However, I can't see any way to convince them of it as long as they're still in the business of making money.

Dayv

Palm makes some great devices and some great software I am aware that itunes is readily available and on most peoples computers I get that Palm wants to keep this feature alive but how about you make a good alternative because I don't want to depend on a company that is actively fighting Palm.

vgrfx

@appletoad: that doesn't even make sense wouldn't them being p*ssies mean they would be to afraid to speak up now if you called them d*uchebags or aholes etc... it would at least be a better fit but P*ssies not at all. I do appreciate the zeal though

vgrfx

@grubish1: I like that

vgrfx

@zeroprime: I don't really see how Apple is fucked here. Only a minority of the public is even aware of this fight, and the vast majority of that minority isn't inconvenienced by it.

I think you overestimate how many people are concerned by the level of chivalry displayed by tech companies towards one another.

[Also, this "put a funny thing after a colon in your display name" thing is getting really old.]

Dayv

On the one hand, I wish Apple would make iTunes syncing an open (or at least licensable) standard. On the other hand, I get a sort of perverse pleasure out of watching them play Lucy with the football to Palm's Charlie Brown.

Dayv

@Monty: It is not a monopoly if there are other options to get your music onto your player.

Microsoft, however, made a lot of monopolistic actions through the 80s and 90s, ensuring that their OS was the only one to be sold by OEMs, and making sure that their Office software was the one that was recognized and bought.

(Starman) AnalysisDialysis

@Gadgetdon: "to write software that reads the Apple iTunes library"

Amazing that they still haven't done that at all...

(Starman) AnalysisDialysis

Does the Palm Pre actually have its own client for syncing?

If so, why couldn't they just make that to pull your library and playlist info out of the iTunes Music folder?

(Starman) AnalysisDialysis

@Curtis Dietrick: Except the developer is not the one complaining but the user.

silverdee

@met2art: Because otherwise, it would be like asking people to switch houses just to get a new bathtub.

silverdee

@zeroprime: There are several software packages that make OSs go beserk and no one expects the OS companies to come up with fixes for those applications, rather the other way around.Palm will continue coming up with patches for their app to work on the platform. And as any other host of an unwelcomed guest, Apple will continue to try to get rid of it.

silverdee

@(Starman) AnalysisDialysis: Thankfully, NO. There is at least 1 pre owner who likes it that way. I don't need nor want another program to "organize" my music.

@something_unique_and_descriptive: And mis-representing your device ID, or whatever it is, as something belonging to another company is not?

I'm on the fence on this one but I personally believe what Palm is doing is worse than what Apple is doing.

vqro

@something_unique_and_descriptive: In a similarly poor example, it's like getting really really mad that you can't use your Old Navy coupon at Gucci. WTF?

@appletoad: That's a pretty poor example - it's more like Toyota CAN open their own gas stations that are optimized for Toyotas, and if you bring your GM / Merc / VW it might bork your engine. We didn't build it for you, nor can we be required to.

@silverdee: I think it's more like changing apartments. And you know, you do get to bring your furnishings with you. iTunes is just the crappy landlord who made the previous place a bitch to live in.