Some Pricing Details On Last.fm On The Xbox 360 Emerge

@Voyou_Charmant: you fail at understanding capitalism, utterly and completely. "welcome to capitalism 101" is spot on, it's just when you get to capitalism 102, you have to unlearn all the ideology you learned in the first class.

@triggerx: no, it shouldn't be free, and it's not; you have to pay for the console, right? making the consumer pay for an entire service in order to use one application is silly (and greedy). there are a lot of ways this could be remedied: it could just be straight up free (it should), the netflix application could cost a small fee upfront ($10-$15) with no monthly fee, or the application could carry a very small monthly fee in and of itself.

@douchebagantics: I was thinking the same thing. Last.FM is great for scrobbling and checking out some new songs but Pandora just seems to have more to offer when it comes to the stations. Pandora knows my music taste way too well.

@Roger_Wilco: I haven't seen recent numbers, but an article I just pulled up from 2 years ago said they LOSE $126 on each 360 they sell. It's probably come down since then, but I'm pretty sure their goal isn't "more hardware sales" in order to give away free services.... it would be "more hardware sales" in order to sell more games. I agree they want to become an all-in-one family entertainment system, but if they PAY you to buy the hardware, then turn around and give you FREE services, it's a money losing scheme. Sure, they want to be an all-in-one entertainment system, but they still want the bulk of your time, energy, and money going towards games. Maybe the happy medium is to offer a $20/yr plan that gives you all the "gold" services except gaming?

What the hell is last.fm?

Seriously.

shiftyeyedgoat

@triggerx: I hope you have a lot of wood to knock. Oh that does not sound right at all. I have a late 2006 model that i have played a handful of games on...it's been on for maybe 200 hrs over the course of it's existence. The dvd drive is failing, it sounds like a vacuum cleaner and locks up periodically. Luck of the draw. MS is lucky there is no lemon law for electronics.

I agree that xbox is for gaming and for those who do a lot and like online gold is a great deal with a nice perks like netflix etc. for those that aren't so into it or just like single player experiences gold doesn't add much. it seems like MS is pushing the xbox towards a more all in one family entertainment system. the core and hard core will always buy games but i think they would entice more hardware sales by bundling services like netflix.

Roger_Wilco

wish it was the slacker service instead.

Daren

@Roger_Wilco: Knock on wood, I have 2 launch 360's, and neither has let me down yet. The one in my living room gets constant useage... each week, probably 4 hours of gaming, 10 hours of streaming movies from my server, and several extra hours goofing off surfing around hulu and youtube. By no means a power user, but yes, it really is my dedicated media center, the only thing I dont (cant) use it for is first-run and live shows (but can any box do that yet?).

As for the nickel and dime business, I will still contend that the XBox is still primarily for gaming, and the online gaming experience that Live provides is definitely worth $40 a year... I don't view them as nickel and diming me... either I pay the single fee or I dont... all the other stuff (Netflix, last.fm) is bonus. Am I trying to pay $40/yr for Netflix and last.fm? No... I can get that stuff on my PC/Laptop/whatever for free. I'm paying $40/yr for the gaming service. Now, for those that don't want gaming, should they just give you all the goodies for free? Maybe... But trust me... Microsoft truly wants you to play (and buy) games... they don't make money giving you free stuff.

@xrikazen: I agree with you. I very rarely play against other people online, but I would like some of the other features, which could easily be brought to Silver. But MS has decided to use every way possible to enhance the value of Gold over silver, so every interesting new feature becomes gold only. I almost wouldn't be surprised if Facebook and Twitter integration is Gold only too.

@Roger_Wilco: about your side note, i have an early-2006 model Xbox that i've left on for days with a game running (rainbow six vegas) because i forgot about it. No problems whatsoever, yet. I doubt there will be any problems with the newer version xboxes, as long as it has proper ventilation

@hooked-on-tronics: yep, half the noobs that torrent would never throttle anything but their penis.

i'm kidding, but not really

I don't think it's going to cost anything. If it does, it will likely be something added to the LastFM account, not XBox Live. The $3.00 subscription isn't even something they really push, you have to really look for it and it only offers a few things that wouldn't otherwise be available.

@xrikazen: I hate that people think things should just be free to them for no real reason, whatsoever.

You're paying a fair market value for a service that offers goods and services in a convenient package. It's that simple. Welcome to capitalism 101.

@triggerx: I don't think he is under the impression that it cost nothing to develop just that this whole nickel and dime business model is getting out of hand. Netflix (and last.fm) integration could be used to drive sales of the hardware alone because the Roku does the same thing cheaper at a one time cost. I'd like to see some sort of bundle cause just adding on more bills to pay is not attractive.

On a side note...how reliable is the xbox? can they really handle being left on constantly to stream movies and music and act as the living room media center MS envisions?

Roger_Wilco

@xrikazen: There are 3 additional ways to get Netflix on your Xbox besides having gold membership. 2 of those ways are free. Then there are additional ways to get the service on your TV without even using your Xbox.
It just so happens that if your a Gold subscriber then you have yet another way to steam Netflix.

Also there is normally at least one deal each calendar year to get 12 months of gold for close to half price. I just tacked on an additional 12 months (so I'm good until the end of 2010) for 30 bucks.

CaptCaveman

I think they should've got Pandora instead of Last FM. Ive used both and Pandora is far superior in user interface and I think is better at choosing the songs you will prefer.

douchebagantics

@triggerx:
Theres also Steam, which in term of users n popularity I would wager eclipses Live by a fair chunk.
No ad's on my free PC version, it's one of my major quips with the 360 that anything that isn't the base unit they charge for, or if it already cost they charge more. Games are good, Live is okay(honest the few times I've used it at a mates it's not really shined out as "This is worth £50 a year", it works, eventually, but not a shining star), just it's all the little stuff on top that they do is "uurgh!" :@

@deanbmmv: Can't speak for GFW Live... does it really have all the features of Xbox Live? I agree they are the only company charging for on-line play, but I can't disagree with why... it's arguably the best and most popular... supply/demand... if it was bad and unpopular, they would probably make it free. Finally, as for the "$3 a month on top"... I don't think that's true. I think the free Live version will equal the free regular version... the $3 is optional only if you want no ads.

@triggerx: By far, the smartest comment (and commenter) I have ever read. It's criminal that you don't have a gold star. +1 for you!

CapitalJigga

@Wewtaco: *now* Facebook

Wewtaco

Just watch, not Facebook is going to cost something. Twitter probably won't, but I actually wouldn't be suprised if Mr. Zuckerberg wants to get a little cash off this partnership.

Wewtaco

@triggerx: MS's free GFW Live on the PC is as a good/the same as the version they charge 360 owners for though. Bit of double standards. And they are the ONLY company that charges for standard on-line play, and all it is is handshaking, its still client hosted.
And then on top of that they charge you $3 a month for a free service. only need to sub if your outside of US or most of EU, and Live isn't even offered in most those places.

@inspiredEpic: To be fair, there's no extra monthly cost associated with the Roku box, which provides almost exactly the same functionality.

pixelate

@facepuncher: To be fair, a properly throttled torrent shouldn't interfere with the bandwidth used to run a game. Unfortunately, the tendency with torrents is to go ape shit on any available bandwidth for faster download loots.

hooked-on-tronics

@facepuncher: Thanks dude. I think they're complaining about the $4/mo because either 1) They continue to think that Nintendo's and/or Sony's "free" online-gaming offerings somehow come close to Live's... they simply do not. or 2) They are Microsoft haters (hence the "m$" in the other dude's post) and would find something else to complain about with Live even if it were free.

@facepuncher: No no no.. you're too kind... you can't just not use it... you need to not use it AND publicly announce that you also hate the company providing it and how they are trying to make money on it.

@secret_curse: I failed to mention that I setup my router with traffic priority. Most people don't bother setting it up.

@inspiredEpic: no. unless i missed something

@triggerx: your logic is spot-on today. I totally agree, you'll probably make $4 at work just taking a hearty shit after lunch. It's not the $4 a month that i think people complain about, it's the fact they have to pay that just to play online.
Don't like paying a sub fee for gold? then don't

@Save me: agree. I'm not a big music listener while playing FPS games, but racing games are great. I'll probably try it out, but end up going with a custom soundtrack.

@xrikazen: then don't use it? I'll probably not use it unless there's comedy stations.

Plus, there's plenty of free radio stations online you could use (pandora)

@triggerx: No kidding. Why does everyone think they are entitled to everything for free. Not having a gold membership doesn't stop you from using your PC to access Netflix or Last FM.

@triggerx: Excellent point!

@Mr. Pie: Yeah i agree, people who think they can download shit on torrents while playing online games are the ones with red latency and cause everyone else to lag out while they have no problems. Selfish bastards....

Ooohhhh... you really think that *eventually* they'll announce all the details??? I'm on pins and needles to see how that risky prediction turns out! ;)

@Cinephile: I think the gig will last... I have a Gold account and if the feature is sitting there, I'll use it.... probably goes for the millions of other Gold account holders as well. And really? Can everyone stop wining about a $4/month Live service? I mean really... go take a look at your Comcast bill... my guess is that it's well over $100... if Comcast added $4 to your bill, you wouldn't even notice it!

@tok3ninja: It's not the same thing, audio streaming can take up to 128kbps if there's such a stream, most online radio station have 64 and 128kbps streams. A DLC download can take all of your connection if the servers are healthy, and a big download can take aswell a pretty big amount of upstream, what can mess with your game.

@triggerx:

You make a good point.

+ 1 heart

@BlindsidesDork: what? are you kidding? The basic connection for my country is 3mbps, and dude, I played unreal tournament over a 56kbps modem, don't tell me you CAN'T stream and play online with a 3mbps/600kbps DSL (I've got 20MB/1MB cable)

@tok3ninja: You, my friend, is what I refer to as a LAGGER, thank you and your equals for ruining my and most people's xboxlive gaming

@Cinephile: Supposedly there are ads ont he last.fm site too.

If you want a last.fm ad free, then you spring for the sub charge.

I just think of it as a perk for the gold members.

Daveed

@drakino: Gold isn't that focuses on matchmaking. Netflix is tied to it as well. Sharing rental video with friends will also most likely be tied to Gold.

Xeno

@drakino: XBox is a gaming console... you're paying for the gaming infrastructure... if you don't use it, it doesn't mean you don't have to pay for it. I wish life worked this way, because then I wouldn't have to pay taxes... I pay for GM bailouts even though I don't drive a GM car, I pay for my neighbor's house bailout even though I don't use his house... hell, I even pay for 200 minutes of cell service each month that I don't use... why? because I know that the cell infrastructure needs to be paid for even if I don't use it.

I'm glad they are adding these (mostly) free features for Gold-only members.

It makes the $30-$45/13 months LIVE subscription even more worth it in my opinion.

Haven't tried Netflix yet, but do you get a discount if you use it with Xbox Live Gold?

@Save me: while I play consoles.

So you have to get a gold account and then on top of that pay for the service too when you can just get the service on its own through the internet?!

I don't think this gig is going to last very long to be honest. Your being charged extra just to access a service you can access elsewhere without an extra tax levied.

Cinephile

Cool, but Id rather have my computer blaring streams from pandora while play comsoles. $3 is nice, but I already have the internet for that.

Besides, custom soundtrack works just fine. Too bad MS has a patent for it though, or else PS3 owners would be able to enjoy it as well.

@xrikazen: So you think that the development, integration, and support for the Netflix feature is free? You should call up your internet provider and tell them that you want your internet for free because all you are gonna do is stream Netflix, which you already pay for.

@tok3ninja: Now wait a minute... Just above this you argue that streaming shouldn't be a problem because you run bittorrent and Halo at the same time. Which is it?

secret_curse

i HATE it that m$ makes you have a gold account for this kind of stuff.

maybe i'm still upset about Netflix. i'm already paying for the service, don't double charge me.

@tok3ninja - gigabit won't make a stink of difference

xrikazen

Why does Microsoft feel the need to tie their subscription service to other subscription services? The 360 could be a great media device for non gamers and act as a gateway to get these people more interested in gaming. But charging $50 a year for a service mostly focused on matchmaking on top of Last.fm or Netflix prices is just odd.

Microsoft has an army of lawyers, I'm sure if they wanted a piece of the pie, they could negotiate a 10% cut or so of any Netflix or Last.FM users using the 360 to subscribe to those respective services.

drakino

Do you know any date details?

@tok3ninja: 10mbit ethernet would be more then enough to allow an online game session and streaming radio, and have bandwidth to spare.

DLC downloads likely stop to prevent game playability issues due to performance drops, not because of bandwidth concerns. Performance in this case either being due to the 360 OS using very little CPU power when a game runs, or to also avoid thrashing the hard drive so much as to interfere with the game reading from it.

drakino

I don't think streaming radio will run very well with an online game going at the same time (i.e. CoD/Halo). Considering DLC downloads stop when you play some/most online-enabled games streaming might be out of the picture as well. Maybe if the 360 came with a gigabit ethernet port, connected to a gigabit router, and connected to a gigabit-enabled modem it can happen. But that's an ideal and very small group of users.

@BlindsidesDork: I gots the new dsl now i cans play games and talk on talker machine at same time! :0

moneymaster93

@BlindsidesDork: An audio stream would only use a fraction of your download speed actually, assuming you have a remotely decent cable connection. And (depending on the game) some games use considerably less bandwidth than you might at first think. Still, I wouldn't expect that feature to be available either.

@BlindsidesDork: I do.I run Bittorrent and Halo 3 at the same time and no problems.

Streaming and online radio station while playing online games probably won't happen...how many people have that good of a connection?

BlindsidesDork

meh. not worth it IMO

Dilpickle1