Cheap, Thin Laptops Suffering From Cheapness, Thinness

@rulerofthemoon: like the macbook air didnt have that awesome problem of cracking hinges.. that werent covered by apple.. applecare.. another great product.. lol

@John Soares: Pssssst.... Macs are just expensive PC's with solid operating systems.

Russell Lynn

@electricarchie: unless you're telling us your MBP was glued to a desk and broke today, that's one of the most non-sensical comparisons i've ever heard. was this supposed to be an ironic comparison?

Accelerata

@electricarchie: What next? Will you use it as a hammer?

halloweenjack, King of the Wild Frontier

@COCOViper: There's a difference between working with material that hasn't been stress-tested over time, and skimping on necessary materials. Also, I've had an iceBook for eight years now and haven't noticed discoloring, and *checks iPhone 3G* I don't even know what you're talking about with the phones.

halloweenjack, King of the Wild Frontier

@Atriel: I still think it'd be better than raw plastic, and a bit of weight never hurt anyone when you consider it's keeping the laptop together. Better than going all aluminum, and the metal doesn't have to be fancy.

telepheedian

@TheWerewolf - Causing headlines!: I kind of take exception to that whole "you buy it expecting to toss it in a year or so and get a new one" disposable electronics mindset...

ghmlco

@aec007: One reason Apple did the unibody design is that you simply can't stamp an aluminum bottom and leave it at that. You need more metal and parts on the inside to reinforce the structure so it doesn't flex and warp.

You could try stamping a thicker piece of aluminum to combat this, but there's a limit there and now you're also increasing the expense by using more material, which also is going to make it thicker and heavier. Not good.

ghmlco

@helfrez: I've dropped my 2007 mbp a few times. Twice in the incase neoprene sleeve, and once while it was in the sleeve inside a bag. All three times something on the case bent. My power jack is slightly bent in, there's a huge ding in the front left corner, and the worst of all: the last one bent my CD drive shut. I had to gently pry it open with a screwdriver.

electricarchie

@COCOViper: ugghhh don't remind me about the iPhone cracks. MIne has several. They started appearing literally days after I got it..

electricarchie

@Shezbo: Interesting point. That means my 5 year old Dell Precision desktop, that I paid about $2,000 for way back in 2004, has cost me about $1.09 a day, not including new peripherals purchased over the years. Considering the amount of work I've gotten out of it over those five years, that's not a bad deal. By contrast, my 2007 MBP, which cost me $1,800 in October of 2007, has cost me $3.29 per day. For a computer I haven't even installed Photoshop on yet, that seems like a waste.

electricarchie

The extension of the problems in making a thin netbook to netbooks in general is faulty.

The very thin netbook is a tiny niche market of the much larger general netbook market which features primarily 9" and 10" devices that are 1.5" thick. When you get to those proportions, everything changes. The plastic can be thicker and the internal design (such as the one in the Aspire One) can allow the motherboard to be segmented - allowing it to flex without stressing the board.

My A1 is one of the most solid laptops I've owned, even though it's all plastic. I carry it in my shoulderbag everywhere and toss it around and it just keeps working. It has fairly thick chassis plastic and the motherboard is in three parts set up as a butterfly on either side of the vertical centerline... This means that if you flex the laptop along the long axis (bending across the short axis down the middle) the boards can flex too. You can't really flex it along the short axis because it's just too thick.

Also, as someone else notes: there's a fundamentally different consumption model for cheap - you don't buy it expecting to make it a family hierloom - you buy it expecting to toss it in a year or so and get a new one.

If it's cheap enough - you don't really care because you keep getting new ones with the lastest technology rather than holding on to a much better built, but substantially more expensive device.

Netbooks are, primary, small, light, cheap with good battery life. To try and turn them into luxury or status items really kind of misses the point (looking at YOU Sony...).

@rulerofthemoon:

Yes because the white Macs never had a plastic discoloration problem, or an overheating problem.

And the iPhone 3G never had repeated cracks in its plastic.

COCOViper

@Bertone77-the heart click worthy?: Fiberglass is just really hard to mass produce.

Xeno

@helfrez: I think there should simply be head on collision tests.

Accelerate a thinkpad to a considerable speed, and let it run against a MacBook Air coming from the opposite direction at considerable speed. Observe.

Thats how we figured out which toy cars were the best when we were kids. Time to adapt it to laptops. I think the unibodys will crush the thinkpads because they have a large, evil slab of actual glass in them, and the unibody is rock solid. Thinkpad magnesium cage will get all bent out of shape. Though that black plastic is pretty tough.

Ok so a thinkpad may under normal usage conditions last longer but that's beside the point. Oh and my iPhone 2G made from steel (!!) and glass will crush any other mobile out there.

orthorim

@nutbastard: Well...okay.

-but only because of your enthusiasm.

@TallDudeFromBrazil: Good industrial designers are a bit like good architects: they know enough about engineering to know when they need to hire an engineer.

Nanotubes, is there anything they can't fix?

@d★nger the pirate: Yup; that one's been around forever.

And, boy those designs look vaguely familiar.

@Brandon Liu: wat

SoaringDisbelief

@aec007:

oh but methinks 10 cents is a little optimistic - raw aluminum is hovering around 73 cents a pound, but for something structural like this i'd want like some 6063 or another alloy with reasonable toughness, which would put it at around 25-40 cents just for each sheet.

@TallDudeFromBrazil: No, they probably have an industrial design background. But I do see where you're coming from.

SoaringDisbelief

@aec007:

stamped aluminum < machined aluminum, but that goes for price too, so maybe yer on to somethin here...

@aec007:

No, each one might not be THAT expensive.

But a plastic case costs pennies, while a metal one will be closer to a dollar. Multiply that by ten thousand(an estimate of a conservative first run quantity), and the savings are obvious.

@strider_mt2k:

Look Strider, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

I know the commenters made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that the boards will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the commentariat. And I want to help you.

@John Soares:

lmao.

@Shezbo:

well a netbook, being 10" or less diagonally, would have considerably less flex than a "thin, cheap laptop" which might be 15", maybe even up to 17" diagonal.

Job said : code name: Ismack.

Brandon Liu

@Brandon Liu: wat

Kaiser-Machead

First week back Job said : We(Apple) have a $299 super awesome Plastic AppleNeverCrack (ANC) thinner stronger & lighter then Mac Air with 5 year warranty and made in Indiana to put these 2rd rate made in China MSI, Acer out of business for good in the works ! with that we will regain our 10% market share and takeover the world ( with the help of the new age PRK leader Kim Jong-un.

Brandon Liu

@helfrez: Actually, it was more of an aluminium laptops are better thread. Speaking thier opinion relating to their use of a specific laptop. Just like your opinion and experiences.

The entire idea behind the unibody is for strength. The design does not differ that much from the pervious gen.

Also, I understand you were ranting, Im not fussed about correct spelling or grammar, at least try and make sure your sentences easier to follow.

@butaneko: Compared to plastic, and when the entire goal of the product is to be inexpensive, yes.

secret_curse

If you really want a thin laptop that will last, you're just going to have to just suck it up, bite the bullet and get something with proper high-grade material, like the Lenovo Thinkpads, that pack a lot of ruggedness into its thinnest examples.

Kaiser-Machead

A stamped aluminum bottom cannot be expensive. The die might be, but once it's made, they can make bottoms like sausages, coming out of the punch press at a rate of 1 ~ 2 per second.
On a very high volume quantity as these netbooks are made, that would be about 10 cents a piece.

Clearly, Doug Freeman from CNET has no manufacturing experience.

There is no excuse for making flimzy bottoms... just know how.

aec007

@butaneko: surprises me too. I can't believe using a piece of aluminum that's been stamped into the shape of a laptop case would add that much to the cost/price.

J_Frank_Parnell

When a company starts building crap, the company's profits nosedive. Example DELL

mikegriffin

Whew.

Good thing I wasn't coming here looking for any kind of serious materials discussion.

Please by all means, continue the pointless platform bashing.

@tok3ninja: Whats ur point ?? both of u....What ?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

Brandon Liu

Aluminum is that expensive?

butaneko

@John Soares:

@telepheedian: this doesn't sound like a bad idea. Although I think part of the problem with most of the suggested solutions is that this niche exists not just because these laptops don't cost a lot but because of the weight. Metal is weighty. Even aluminum.

Atriel

Maybe some sort of metal plate behind the bottom plastic plate for reinforcement. Probably doesn't even have to be solid, maybe an X shape, with a border so people can grab the sides.

telepheedian

@CraziestGadgets.com: It's supposed to be thin.

telepheedian

Congratulations. It's a PC.

John Soares

how about thicker plastic?

if you just stick your laptop on a desk and never move it, as i'm sure many people do, then the flimsiness is no issue.

@AreWeThereYeti:

Yeah but a GOOD industrial designer probably has an engineering background / experience / knowledge.

TallDudeFromBrazil

Couldn't they use a fiberglass re-enforced plastic to save cost and add strength? Going to Aluminum or Carbon-fiber would push the price way up but there has to be a "cheap" hybrid plastic than can do the job.

[en.wikipedia.org]

@Jeremy82465: good, cheap, fast. pick two.
less words.

@Jeremy82465: High Quality, High performance, and cheap. choose 2.

(adapted slightly to be relevant

Aaron Monroy

duct tape

jerritp

@rulerofthemoon: Isnt there a saying for this? Something like:

You can have it good and fast but it wont be cheap, good and cheap but it wont be fast, or cheap and fast but it wont be good.

@PlayerX: Except that when they start dealing with twisting forces, cracking and strength, that is "engineering"... by definition. You want someone who knows their tensors and static analysis for that.

AreWeThereYeti

@mesiikittie: You underestimate the power of the dark side, paduan.

Good industrial designers are just as useful as engineers in dealing with problems like this one.

Hasn't been cracked? I got that.

USB_Humping_Dog

If this problem is solved it won't be because some industrial designer tweaked something. It's an engineering problem. The engineers will figure it out.

All hail the engineers. OooooAaaaaOoooo

@ospreyguy: Does everything have to turn into a Apple is better thread? I think Thinkpad are the most rugged non-Toughbook laptops out there. I've been a long-time thinkpad user, and they just go one forever and take a serious beating. My parents recently knocked the old R40 they use sometimes, off of a 5.5ft mantle down to a brick hearth....it landed right on the edge of the h earth, to the edge of the bottom of the laptop by the usb * audio ports....WHAMM...broken? Not a chance, oneside of a large gouge of plastic scraped out of the side of the machine, and popping out one ram chip, the sting didnt seem to mind! I was so amazed, i wanted them to do it again just to see if it would break.

I think that while unibody is kewl and strong, it sacrafices to much function for the sake of "design". I would love to see some drop tests on a unibody macbook in those conditions. Oh and over the years the only thing they have done is replace the battery ($40 ebay user replacable) so tha argument that..it will last you 5-6yrs and you wont care is a scam. Plenty of people use computers until they break of get to slow for the task they have too do. /rantoff

helfrez

I think this is why the mac is so popular. They are a more rugged laptop in a still small form factor. Yes they cost more, but like John said take the cheapo PC and put it in Aluminum and you get a MBA pricing (or damn near). The you find it you keep it commercials never take the construction / build quality into play.

I just really like the feel of a MB it makes me all secure feeling on the inside. Like keeping a gun in my car. Won't be worth 2 shits when I get carjacked and it is in the glove box but hey I have the warm and fuzzys..

ospreyguy

Lets wait for the real world tests shall we?

interesting point. It sort of substantiates Apple's claim that they won't build crap. IT also confirms that cheap mean compromises.

rulerofthemoon

You pay $299 or $399 for a netbook... the expectation is you're getting something cheap.

Having a netbook for a year now, i'm just waiting for the day when either the screen goes or something else "comes apart."

In reality, it less than a dollar a day. To bad my Starbucks' wasn't just that.