@Rabid Penguin: I've been with Vista from the early days of Longhorn builds. It was a bumpy road, but overall experience has been quite good once the developers caught up with the drivers and updates.

exstns

@Jagged Toaster: Your right, why should i expect microsoft to make a good product, silly of me. You pretty much backed up my decision to switch, thanks.

iAirmanshirk

The good thing about all this mess is how Microsoft will think twice about screwing the customers once again, i mean why the heck where they thinking when they came up with the idea of stcking Vista Ready sticker to all those machines, knowing what was to come

snitch29

@Stang70Fastback:
That's why it's only released on MSDN and technet. It's for developers and other type people to run it on test machines so that they can prepare their programs for possible changes the SP will induce.

ryusen

@exstns: The only problems I've ever had with Vista involved blue screens while using iTunes.

DISCLAIMER: This is in no way an anti-Apple comment. Just saying, I have a feeling they hardly care how well iTunes performs on non-Apple machines.

Jagged Toaster

@iAirmanshirk:

I gotta tell you all, that I actually sort-of feel bad for microsoft, I mean, they've got this terrible PR problem with vista, and to tell you the truth, the only thing wrong with it is that people have crappy computers that can't handle it. I have NEVER had one issue, i'm 64 bit and I found ALL the drivers I needed and everything. Really I just feel bad for them because they have a "theoretically more capable" product than apple, and they just can't shake the PR.

swoyekr.

@exstns: It has/had it's issues, but I find it to be pretty stable myself. I had some serious issues with it when I first got it, but those were hardware issues due to poor drivers when Vista was released. But Microsoft doesn't write nVidia's or ASUS's drivers or BIOS firmwares. I just had to update my BIOS and drivers and I was fine... but I was an extremely early adopter to Vista.

Long story short: I'd still rather use a Windows box than a Mac or Linux box.

Rabid Penguin

@Jagged Toaster: Must have been wishful thinking on my part, and the hope that I could read less of his wonderful remarks! Oh well!

iSee

@iSee: He may not have mentioned anything about Apple, but it was surely an anti-Microsoft post. Based on the plethora of other comments he's left on the site, I can more than assume he has yet to change his ways, sadly.

Jagged Toaster

@ripfire: Exactly, I just bought Power-DVD Ultra or whatever and it handles Blu-ray fine. Though I would rather just have native Media Center support from Windows.

theDreamer

@iAirmanshirk: You mean Mojave?

Rabid Penguin

@Jon B.: @Jagged Toaster: Do you guys realize that iAirmanshirk made it through an entire post without mentioning anything Apple related, and possibly even without implying anything Apple related! This is an impressive leap (even though his post was as worthless as mine is to the topic being discussed).

iSee

@GTgeek: seriously? I don't understand the appeal of that built-in

The Chad

Damn, how about Blu-Ray support for Vista Media Center?

ripfire

@iAirmanshirk: Don't really get what are the problems people are having with Vista? It works faster than XP, boots up faster, barely ever crashes, works well with most programs, basically it works great. Could somebody please tell me what are these problems people are having, I'd really like to know? Or did I somehow received an early "working" build of the OS?

exstns

I sure hope they didn't stop at just adding 2.1 to bluetooth. it is THE single thing keeping me loathing vista. You simply can't rely on just a bluetooth keyboard and mouse in vista, it is THAT bad.

Supposedly, there's a "feature pack" out there that adds this functionality and some kind of "unified interface", but according to microsoft's documents, you need to "contact your system manufacturer" to obtain it. I built my computer, and every time I try contacting myself, for some reason I get a busy signal by phone, or my email bounces back. Frustrating!

lpranal

@iAirmanshirk: What are you expecting them to turn it into, OSX? Just because you're an Apple fanboy, it doesn't mean everyone and everything else must conform to your standards.

Jagged Toaster

Built-in Hyper-V hypervisor!!!! I've been waiting for that for so long!

Seriously though, I hope this makes Vista a little more stable. I don't have too many issues with it, but it is a little crashy. Oh well, just something I've gotten used to over the years.

GTgeek

@iAirmanshirk: You mean like Snow Leopard?

Dude, stop it, seriously. I use a 17" MBP, an iPod Touch, and heck, I even have the Apple logo on my car, but I accept that people make mistakes (yes, EVEN APPLE) and dont go bashing them.

Good lord man, give it a REST!

Jon B.

I still don't understand why you'd want to try out a Service Pack BETA... even if you have everything backed up - I don't see any reason to chance the possible nightmares that could result.

Stang70Fastback

@iAirmanshirk: They are, it's called Windows 7.

s0crates82

is it possible to fix vista? I say microsoft should just call it a different name, release a few betas to make it look like its a different OS, then re-sell it under that new name. Its a good idea, look into it microsoft!

iAirmanshirk

Okay.

bana

@exstns: You and me both. The only software I've ever had a problem with was Visual Studio. But they fixed a lot of those issues a long time ago. I don't see what the big fuss is about.

Rabid Penguin

•Reliability

Finally!

future-proof

@iAirmanshirk: Hey man, I don't have a problem with your close-mindedness. I'm just suggesting trying something new. *gasp*

Just kidding. Apple FTW, fo sho.

Jagged Toaster

@Stang70Fastback: Some of us do this crap for a living. Knowing if it breaks proprietary software early lets us get a head of the game. Also useful for testing with firewall, AV stuff etc.

token_y_chromosome

vista works 100% fine, i have NO problems with it on my 5 year old computer with 1 gig of ram so if you complain then go to a mac or something since you have no business being around a computer, if my dad figured it out, anyone can. the only thing im hoping for is faster transfers of large files, moving stuff from one hard drive to another and even to a memory stick takes ages.

SakhiMelbo

@Jagged Toaster: only problem ive ever had was it just wouldnt boot completely sometimes.... and everything has been fine... and also all the little things that piss me off insanely, wownt go into detail there

skyline6

Eh, nothing that's much use here. Although I can't really think of anything else they really need to do to it, it works perfectly fine for me.

Gamer4250

@Jagged Toaster: lmao

skyline6

@Zomb: I should ask you that question.

ripfire

@ripfire: Did you read the list?

Zomb

So $300K on Marketing and $5K on actual fixes. Sounds about right.

vgart

@iAirmanshirk:
Umm ya, its already in works. Snow Vista!

vgart

@iAirmanshirk: Vista is excellent now there are no problems if you have a computer made in the last 3 years. Did Steve Ballmer molest you as a child or something. Why don't you back up your claims with facts or can you because i doubt you have used vista. FYI apple is making an update like this its called snow leopard and you have to pay for crap that is even less of an improvement. Don't know if you have seen the windows 7 videos as your implying its the same as vista. There is a major improvement in performance and several things have been completely redesigned. It is no way vista with a different name.

Zomb

my vista works perfect. i i'm not changing squat

diamonddnice

Dress up a turd its still a turd

brutaluser

@vgart: Its funny... Because no one went hard on Apple when they failed miserably on the App Store, Mobile Me, Iphone 3g launch.

mynamesafad

I really don't understand all of this Vista criticism. I have been using it for over a year now, and you know how many major issues I've had with it? 0. None. Nada. There have been a few minor issues, but thats to be expected with any product made to run on such a wide range of systems.

Spartan A24

Something tells me the time crack still stop functioning in sp2

i really need a new crack for my test pc's
and microsoft lied btw you can rearm it 1 time only
after that you have to buy but i ain't buying a license for a test pc

TBM-Fan

I'll just ignore trolls and talk about my own experience.
If SP2 is anything close to SP1, I think it's great.

I mean, no major improvements were announced in SP1 too, but from my current experience so far, all major problems I had with Vista were fixed on SP1.

I mean, before SP1 I go so fed up with Vista I even said "I'm never using this piece of shit lame excuse for an OS once again".

Due to extreme circunstances though, I HAD to use it again. So I upgraded to SP1 and started using it even though I really didn't want to.

But now, 2 weeks later, I'm still using it even though I don't need to anymore. Random crashes, bsods, incompatibility issues, programs that crashed and could not me closed (not even using task manager) and tons of other problems are all solved.

And some games even seems to be running faster than XP, though this might be because of clean install and all.

I seriously didn't think I would be another one saying this, but people should try Vist before judging it.

Specially people who did try it before SP1 and had lots of problems back them.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

@vgart: gee I wonder how much apple pumped into their advertising campigns as compared to actual programing and hardward. Odds are they spent more on advertising just like every other product and service out there.

taftsearlobe33

i dont think i will be even play with vista as i am delaying my next built for release of windows 7.

inertial

@bana:
My reaction too...

Derry Quinn

@iAirmanshirk: The only problem I've had with Vista is when he puts his furry little willy into my ear...it makes me saaaaaad...

T-Will

@iAirmanshirk: I think we have a queen of the apple fanboys....oh lord

efenili

@Derry Quinn: So news isn't always exciting, were you expecting Vista SP2 to include time-travel functionality, or a virtual girlfriend?

bpapa9013

@The Chad: warning: malfunctioning sarcasm detector discovered

Avielus

@iAirmanshirk: It's better to be quite and be thought a douche-bag, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

bpapa9013

@bpapa9013: virtual girlfriend has been there a long time. You thought Dr. Watson was a dude?

Buttertoad

@SakhiMelbo: It's really disturbing to see that this is still not being addressed. It is a HUGE problem, and happens on just about every system. Go search Google for "slow, Vista, file copy" and just look at how many issues there are. This makes me think that Microsoft simply CAN'T fix the issue, which, frankly, scares me. Are they so misguided in their vision that they can't even create a system where basic function like "copy" don't work properly?

This coming from one of the largest, most powerful companies in the history of the world. Just one more example among the list of thousands demonstrating just how completely Microsoft has lost its direction.

hexydes

@Buttertoad:

Dr. EMMA Watson

eldouche

@bpapa9013: Careful to not step in the troll shit.

p3713

@iAirmanshirk:
Fanboy! >:)

I have vista, works fine, yes it sometimes crashes just like mac sometimes freeze *sigh*. Even for everything you mac fanboys say windows/vista is worse for, I say the UI is way better then mac ever will be at this rate.

Here's how I see it. I open a program, on my task bar it shows me that I have a program open, perfect. On mac you can't always be sure if you have a program open or not... One click and program is gone! Meaning you don't have to go through the extra work of clicking on the name of the program and then selecting "close". Which irritates me. I could go on but I won't.

Mac does have a few things that I wish Windows did, but honestly windows has a better UI and that's why I stick with it.

cowpop

@lpranal: I use a Bluetooth Microsoft 7000 Entertainment Keyboard, Microsoft 8000 Bluetooth laser mouse, Logitech bluetooth stereo headphones, Sync my iPhone, and transfer data to and from my Vista laptop, all using a single Microsoft branded USB bluetooth transceiver that came bundled with the Wireless Entertainment 7000 keyboard, on my Vista Ultimate custom build desktop.
The Bluetooth control software is the generic Vista bluetooth control software.. I've never had any issues -.-

Quatre707

@brutaluser:

But DAMN that's a nice suit.

Eptin

@Avielus: perhaps next time I'll use 5 exclamation points. I thought 4 was obvious enough. Actually, I think Chad was being sarcastic himself. Funny comment though, hahaha

GTgeek

@tnash:
"It is our goal that applications that run on the Windows Vista Operating System today and are written using public APIs will continue to work as designed on Windows Vista SP2."

That's like the government saying, "We're building a new road. We hope your cars continue to work on it."

tnash

"as well as addressing crashes, caused by Microsoft code, discovered since the launch of SP1"

Clearly the best part.....

tnash

@eldouche: I LOL'ed.

Ruzzel26

For all of you people claiming Vista is so perfect, I implore you:

1. Set it up where diferent wifi networks have different IP adresses, like the iPhone
2. Find your IP address at all, using the GUI.

#1 is impossible, and #2 takes 3 different control panel applets if you start by right clicking on the network icon

There are huge UI problems with Vista IMO, and a serious lack of focus on usability.

Cetrian

@TBM-Fan: Nope it still works, I have the one that loads before vista starts to boot.

MarieCorcyra

@Quatre707: Sounds like I have to buy a new bluetooth dongle. My bluetooth keyboard & mouse work perfectly on my macbook pro w/ built-in bluetooth, every time. I'd rather have it work on my vista machine (HTPC) because that's what I bought the stuff for.

Do your bluetooth devices let you wake your machine, and still work when it wakes up? Mine doesn't, and it's extremely annoying to have to have wired a keyboard and mouse hooked up to my computer.

lpranal

@Cetrian:
1- wat?
2- Right click, Network & Sharing center, view status, details... what's so hard about that. 99% of the time you don't need to know your IP address.

UofITom

@Cetrian:

windows key + r....

the picture on the windows key is a graphic right?

endless

@Buttertoad: LOLLLL

tartooob

I'm with Cetrian. Vista, especially Vista x64 is in a seriously bad state and needs more than just marketing hype to fix it. For those who think Vista is the best thing, try a quick troll round the fora (forums?) and see what CUSTOMERS have been complaining about for years (everything from major design flaws through to system crippling bugs) furthermore, IMV, if a customer can't see how to use a facility it might as well have rotted on the designers desk.
Do you think MS might precede W7 (or SP2) with ACCURATE documentation?
They could make sure SP2 works first time - hey, there's a new brilliant idea!
Of course Apple went for the throat as soon as they discovered what a mess Vista was really in. And MS response is to rush out the new Windows and hope we're going to pay for them to fix the faults in their product?
Send not to ask what is in SP2 but what isn't in SP2 and why not?

drg40

@Eptin: I know man, It's all white and shiny :P

Shinsplitter

@hexydes: Hmmm... Slow copying? I never noticed. I mean it could be the fact that when I'm doing file transfers I just drop em to the background and wait for it to finish instead of watching the clock... Or maybe it's the fact that Vista's timer is significantly more accurate than XP's was? I've seriously ended up with partial apps/videos/images because of pulling a flash drive immediately after XP said the transfer was finished... I guess I should have listened to the little flashing light on the flash drive instead of the OS though.

And for my typical low blow to apple... At least I can fix my own :D (Actually no hate for Apple, just the stereotypes)

Shinsplitter

@exstns:

There were no problems. People are stupid.

Microsoft came out with an OS, explicitly said it's for the next generation of PC's to start coming out 6-12 months after the OS. Then people installed on their existing PC's and complained how slow it was and had no driver support (just like every other OS before it, because... DUH, it's brand spanking new).

Then 6-12 months later, as they indicated, all new PC's run it just fine. Heck, my niece just got a bottom of the line Dell laptop, and it runs Vista pretty fast. I installed it on my new mid-level PC, and it runs amazingly fast and error free.

This is what happens when people pay attention to tech reviewers from CNN and MSNBC. (The same reviewers who really know sqat about technology, and think Firby was hi-tech.)

Gervy

@drg40: When was the last time you used Vista? I've used it since RC1 and been perfectly happy with it. It ran on a then 5 year old PC with 1.5 gigs of RAM. The "Finalized" version has run incredibly stable on everything from that original box all the way up to my current OC'd Core2 with 5 gigs of RAM. I'm not getting where the system crippling bugs are? I mean I've seen Vista on hundreds if not thousands of computers, and most of the issues have actually been caused by lazy manufacturers not making drivers. Or software manufacturers not wanting to do an update to work with a new OS because it would cost them money.

Hmm... Also the simple truth is when it can run on a custom designed hardware solution, of course theres going to be some incompatibilities with hundreds if not thousands of compnent manufacturers.

Apple has what maybe half a dozen models supported at any one time?

Shinsplitter

@exstns:

Works faster? Boots faster? It might get you to the login screen faster, but that's about it.

How about:

Hogs 2-3x more memory
Allows you to log in faster, but usability takes longer
Crashes more programs
Annoys you by asking you stupid questions
Frequently bombs on older hardware
Gives new meaning to the term "Please wait" by depicting an annyong little spinny circle when you're in a hurry.

I miss anything?

Oh..

Looks prettier

Spliner

@mynamesafad: The 70 some apps i have for my phone would make me think differently about the app store "failing" But WTF would you know.

dillinger23

@iFans, Gather behind me.: that just keeps itunes off of one more PC. Thank you, sir.

im_a_pc

I noticed that on the new HP Media Centers, HP has actually tweaked Windows Media Center to use Cyberlink as the DVD & Blu-Ray player instead of Windows Media Player. This works fine and you get the added bonus of the entire Cyberlink DVD Suite (including Director) free, which is awesome, BUT you can no longer hack the registry to set the DVD player to "Gallery" and create the awesome online DVD library interface like you can with the non-Cyberlink version of Media Center.

I wonder if Windows Media Player will be back and able to play Blu-Rays in SP2 because I miss my cool DVD library.

RacecarBoobTat

Gee...no mention about Internet Exploder fixes. That POS has to go.

FrankenPC

I love Kevin - he RULES.

Mona

@vgart:
Obviously you know nothing about marketing or software development. $5k to make fixes would get you nothing. Ditto for $300k to do a marketing campaign.

cyclocrossmechanic

@swoyekr.: Amen to that. Vista is just about the best OS Microsoft ever did.

aec007

@ripfire: Totally agreed. I have ArcSoft Total Home Theater now, and that has a nice VMC module, but native is certianly better.

scingram

@scingram: Yeah, waht I was really after is a way to transcode Blu-Ray to my extender (360). But I guess that's a longshot. :P Oh well, my next option would be to buy a 50' DVI/HDMI and optical cables. I just don't think I'm ready yet to put my PC next to my tv.

ripfire

@Spliner: I have not spent a lot of time with Vista but barring any evidence from your part none of your complaints can be chalked up solely to the OS, especially since you put "bombs on older hardware" on your list. try installing any os below the min required specs and see if it's just vista that fails. I use an eight year old iBook (yes. cash for laptops says that it's worth $5); I know that Leopard would devour this system so I stick with Tiger. Exactly how "old" is the system you're using?

I'm not saying you're lying, but if you'd just give more details then maybe non techies might be better informed, otherwise they just might take your word for it, even if their set-up could easily handle vista.

iatw

@lpranal:

Yea, my bluetooth keyboard works just fine....about the wake your machine, I know for a fact that my new computer i built has USB ports that can be set to be able to wake up the machine, either set from the bios or a jumper on the motherboard can't remember, but they are specific ports and not all of them.....and i know i used windows installed drivers to for vista

comic0guy

@iFans, Gather behind me.: windows 7? :P

grimdeath9740

I got some baad feelin that Windows Vista + SP1 + SP2 + SP3 + So-So Changes in UI is Windows 7...

The Comedian

@ripfire: I just got a 25' HDMI cable. RULES!!!! Used to stream stuff through the ps3, but this is so much better.

anakin78z

@lpranal: I have logitech bluetooth mouse and keyboard, and it works fine. Never had any dropout issues. The keyboard and mouse let me wake (and sleep) the machine no problem.

anakin78z

Will SP2 add support for USB 3.0 and Media Center TV pack ? Here is a good article . Windows Vista SP2

AureliaJaloofamis