In before the first porn related comment.

jayhawk11

This upper echelon of the DSLR/video hardware market is something I know nothing about, but this seems to make a lot of sense; a system that is configurable now and upgradeable depending on need and budget. What does it mean for the average consumer? Hopefully a lot less grainy shit on YouTube!

weatherman

That's just crazy!

saicode

*creams pants*

mushu

@jayhawk11: Nope, the first one was porn related, kinda. He seems to know what's to come.

mangochutney

I love the last line on the red forum post: Oh, and by the way, 3d.

gordeaoux

Canon has just crawled under a rock.

citizen024

It doesn't look very 'portable' does it ? Like for carrying around on a neck strap or something....and doesn't look very ergonomic either. I'll stick with my D200 thanks....

RedEye

yes it is fucking awaysome, i just looked the pictures and it is really really awaysome, all the way up to 261 mega pixels holy S***..
and it can use cannon and Nikon lenses. damit it si pretty awaysome..
so here goes the next pay check

orappa

@markarian: I'd argue it's not about the glass nor about the hardware.

If you don't have talent, an expensive camera system will not enable you to shoot good photos or videos

wingbatwu

WHo-ah, mxrssbb. But...but... mama ieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. MUST HAVE the... Square Things... stereo...ah ah, I'm melting...

PastorDoodah

That document looks spectacularly unprofessional.

I agree with markarian on the lenses, how can they possibly beat decades of experience from other companies.

Anyway, if I had $30000 to spend like it were change I'd get one.

It's like building with very expensive Lego's.

Herman

I, for one, welcome our new transforming camera overlords!

tuacker

@markarian: dont these things use Nikon or Cannon lenses?

i have to say this is one hell of a product, the fact that over the years if you love your camera all you would have to do is switch out the sensor when the hottest new one comes out is fantastic, and would save photographers a truck load of cash over the years.

add to that i can use my collection of lenses that i already have and you have one hell of a camera to take on nikon nad cannon.

spider2544

Oh, hey, a vertical grip.

markarian

I wonder if people will actually shot videos with it.

I mean, building stuff with LEGO was always the most fun part.

mangochutney

I highly doubt RED will make serious waves with still photographers. RED doesn't have decades of lenses to back up their system and I don't think that their "SLR" configuration would ever fall close to the 5D MkII's (comparably) cheap $2700.

They're going to have to design all sorts of other accessories too, like battery grips for vertical shooting, macro extension tubes, hotshoe flash systems, etc.

Most of the pro's will tell you it's all about the glass (which is admittedly debatable), but it's hard to believe RED can suddenly jump in and think they can make optics up to the quality of Canon, Nikkor, or Leica.

Don't get me wrong, for video, the RED is boneriffic and I'd love to have one. 28K, Jesus FREAKING Christ...

markarian

I think it moved.

Eauboy

@weatherman: I seriously doubt your average consumer is gonna drop several thousand dollars on their video setup

Nickbee

meh...

r0ckface

@wingbatwu:
If you at a point when you start to discuss hardware, i always asume that you have at least some talent.

Redwraithvienna

I rather buy a car with that or better yet a house.
you can drive or live in one of those.

Somadis

@markarian: Did you miss the part where they say their system is compatible with Canon AND Nikon lenses?

J. Nadeau

@markarian: you can use Canon and Nikon lenses, as well as any pl mount lens.

r0ckface

So...the Tripredacus of digital cameras.

OK!

justhesh

@orappa: Only one?

mangochutney

@tuacker: Thank you, I've been waiting for that one.

mangochutney

@mushu: in response to 3D PORN!!!

waveman216

Uses Nikon and Canon lenses and...

Whats to stop them from getting people like Zeiss, Leica, Tamron, Voigtlander, Sigma, helping them to build lenses?

miburo

It should actually compete with the mid-hi range of DSLRs... $2500 for sensor + grip + IO + battery + storage = ? Probably $4-5k?

jwardell

Most of these look like weapons from Dead Space.

jdbaile3

Wow, some very interesting stuff here. I like the idea of a modular system. But the proof's in the pudding -- I want to see actual images samples and clips and real production machines. When are these things supposed to come out?

Dirk

Nothing to fear for Canon/Nikon ... this is aimed squarely (pun!) at the Hassleblad/Phase One crowd. Strictly a studio camera.

XerxesLolzords

@undefined: @markarian: They built this camera modularly for a reason. They've already announced that there will be multiple lens mount options including accepting Nikon and Canon lenses.

FreakinSyco

@XerxesLolzords: no it's really targeted at film-makers, and yes there is a DSLR component here, but I think it's more aimed at location scouting, and capturing a couple of frames, mind you with the same sensor that one is going to use to film the moving picture with. No I don't think jo-schmoe photog is going to be interested in this. In fact 2 photogs I know of, didn't even know what I was talking about when I mentioned this camera to them. But as a film-maker this camera intrigues.

beekerstudios

@Nickbee: On the flipside, for the average film-maker, who wants to, forgive the phrase, make somewhat "epic" looking films, without the "epic" budget, even the scarlet brain is more than your average high-end HD pro-sumer camera. You'd be surprised what people drop on stuff.

beekerstudios

@mangochutney: Maybe he gets paid once a year, the poor bastard.

Bitstuff

doesn't look very 'SLR' to me, rather looks like a system with a screen in a viewfinder …

redkitten

I like companies like RED. Not only do they make great products but they make the products look great. It's a new day in marketing.

Joseph

Accepting lenses through an adapter means one thing for photographers... No autofocus/IS support.

mconheady

and it STILL won't run crysis... right?

gonzam

@weatherman:
Yes, these aren't for amateur videographers. But they make feature film making very much more affordable. And they blur the line between stills and video in a very interesting way. Canon and Nikon just indicated this. Red is producing products that in all likelihood will be remembered as making this fully possible.

xThadd

@Somadis: You can buy a 3,000 house? Sign me up stat!

PEOPLE STOP LOOKING at the end, if you want to compare apples to apples, go check out what a panavision camera costs, and the cost of developing film, and the cost of waiting to see your dailies, etc. GEEZUS.

APPLES to APPLES, a high-end pro-sumer camera still doesn't touch the scarlet!

beekerstudios

@RedEye: yah because that's who this camera is for, tourists

beekerstudios

@beekerstudios: by more, I mean offering more, more resolution, more flexibility, more paths to upgrade, etc.

beekerstudios

@markarian: Don't discount RED's own, or third party, CINE-sourced optics. High end video, which RED obviously provides, requires higher-quality optics than still photography. This may end up more expensive than a Canon, but IQ could arguably be much better, especially in video.

As for the adapters for Nikon and Canon lenses, what's the conversion factor?

nikox

@rewinditback: $2,500 scarlet is 26k more than 5d mkii?

beekerstudios

@mangochutney: it's first and foremost a motion picture camera. The DSLR aspect is, as I see it, very secondary. Even your high-end HD camera is toping out at 1080p, this does 3k-5k for a similarly priced "video camera".

HD 1080p - 1920x1080 (square pixels)
2K native resolution - 2048 x 1080 pixels
4K native resolution - 4096 x 2160 pixels

And the fact that you can over-crank it (high fps) is icing.

beekerstudios

@citizen024: Why? This is not a 5d mkii killer. This is a camera in a whole different class ... and with that class comes about 26k more in price.

Its comparing a Kia to a Tesla. They serve the same purpose - to get you there - but are aimed at two different crowds.

rewinditback

This thing is very cool, but it is NOT competition for Canon or Nikon. I can get full frame 135-sized cameras from Canon (~$3000-$8000) and Nikon (~$2600-$4600) that are amazing tools for still photography. But just the full frame sensor "brain" is $12000 from RED. And that's before I add the grip, viewfinder, power pack, recording module and lens mount. What you end up with is a Frankenstein camera that drains your wallet, and offers very little in terms of capability in return. A still photographer would be much better off with a pro Nikon or Canon system than this rig. That said, I think RED is pointed at the special effects world. Stuff like Bullet Time in the Matrix was created by a bunch of Nikon SLRs in a ring. I bet RED wants that market by using its modular approach, and ease of working with other cinema components. And that market is not too sensitive to price. Cool - hell yes! But I'll be hanging onto my Nikon pro gear for some time it seems.

BambalinaKenndey

@jwardell: if RED is really looking to sell this stuff, they would/could allow third parties to build some of these other things (grips, storage, add-ons), so they can focus on the film technology (the brain). I think you are right though, that 2500 is just for the brain, so it's clear the other stuff is going to hit our pocket book a little bit more.

beekerstudios

i'd say that if all the products ship on time and in quantity, RED will have completely shattered the mold for the modern "camera." and i hesitate to even use the term camera anymore. it's more of a "digital still and motion image capture ecosystem." hah.

TonyRockyHorror

Having actually read the release...

This is genius. It deals with all the current issues within digital cinematography. The upgrade path is finally logical.

xThadd

Not sure what I think about the modular'ness of this. Am I supposed to be reconfiguring this out in the field? Personally, I don't like changing lenses frequently. Too much opportunity for crap to get into area's that are clean.

When I think of camera design, I also think of firearms. Do I want a Glock (very simple, one button, does one job really well), and a rifle? Or one gun that can be reconfigured to both situations. Personally, I think that with the one gun situation, you get a gun that doesn't perform particularly well in either situation. But having to two separate, specialized guns, you get the best tool for the job each time.

newgalactic

@beekerstudios: Well, photographers do carry their equipment. Maybe not on the sidelines of a football game, but wedding photographers don't use a tripod. So size and ergonomics will make a difference to wedding photographers, combat journalists/photographers.

newgalactic

@beekerstudios: How much for all of the accessories? i was just throwing it out an absurd price.

rewinditback

@Somadis: Now, the thing is the prices are LOW. $2,500 + ~$2,500 lens/kit = a more than HD camera (3k) shooting at 120 fps on a 2/3" sensor. That's $5,000 vs a Sony EX3 shooting 1080p on 1/3" sensor for around $8,000. Plus the Scarlet is infintely upgradeable and due to sensor has the beautiful depth of field with out the need for Red Rock Micro. True EPIC is pricy, but nowhere near its competitors like the Geneis or CineAltas. IE $50,000 vs $250,000

NicoletteOgodai

Sweet lord. Can't wait to see the output of these things but for my money I'd stick with the full frame 5dmkII.

Just the "brain" is $12,000 for a 36x24mm sensor ... maybe I'll pick one up on ebay in 2035 when they've come down in price a bit.

broho

That "comically giant JPEG" is only 800*13k. Each frame of their Epic 617 has *twenty-four times* as many pixels.

Matthew Hughes

HOT!!!

Digital Freak

@beekerstudios: The $2500 RED doesn't compare to the 5D. The 5D has a full frame sensor (the RED $2500 only has a 2/3) and the cannon kills it as a still camera as the $2500 RED can only shoot a 4.9MP still compared to the 5D's 21 MP. Don't get me wrong, I think he new RED offerings are awesome, I just don't think you can really compare the two as equals.

PeeZed

"Monstro" -I loove it.
I wish more companies named products like this.

pete

Sorry, if I had the money for this, I would buy Hasselblad instead. I do not see anything really new here, it is just a body, a back, and exchangeable components. Yay.

maztec

@nikox: Was waiting for someone to make a point about the conversion factor. Canon's own EOS mount for it's pro camcorders adds something like 6X to the focal length.

spaceman37

@Herman: I agree with markarian on the lenses, how can they possibly beat decades of experience from other companies.

Easily. By including mounts for those lenses with decades of experience.

twoeightnine

They look so bulky-huge-utilitarian-awesome.

Chewbenator

@Herman: Unprofessional? Red is a different type of company than all the others, more "hip" if you will. So, it makes sense that their press releases would also be different.

You sound just a bit too stuck up...

photophile

@mangochutney: Maybe he's talking about the Scarlet, that's do-able on 1 paycheck.

davidm

@r0ckface: ditto.

kinda ugly. The marketing around it looks so amateurish-Impact-font-90s-GM or something.

I'M BIG 'N BOLD! ...AND HAVE NO TASTE!

iomatic

Must. Buy. Need. 65 Megapixels. Now.

Josh_Geyer

Actually, this system leverages decades of lens development by being compatible with Nikon or Canon SLR lens mounts. Folks, the proof will be in the execution and details, the functionality and ergonomics, but this is designed to be the Holy Grail of digital cameras -- a hybrid device that is fully functional cross between still photography and motion video.

HDBoys

Can I be the first RED fanoi, there I said it!

beekerstudios

@rewinditback: Yah I would say 26k is quite absurd.

beekerstudios

@PeeZed: you forgot to mention how the 5D is going to flicker like a MOFO has a "film camera", and btw can only do what 1080p? 29.97? Great for flashes in the pan (more than enough for most), but is still not a film res. I would rather have a solid pipe feeding data continuously, than one that shoots data in short spirts. Yes the 5d overall can capture higher res images, but those are singular photos, not continuous. I will give you the full-frame sensor, but still that's not an apples to apple comparison. A full-frame sensor with a smaller pipe.

beekerstudios

@newgalactic: this is probably not for you then

beekerstudios

@mconheady: That would be a definite dealbreaker. Unclear at this point, but I did see some language about data transfer through the adapters so it's very possible to still have AF and IS.

snubz

Was hoping for a DSLR-centric camera that shot great movies. As a travel photographer, this is not for me. Looks inconvenient to pack and use for still use.

Plus, are all the viewfinders EVF? I'm not going to be looking at a screen to compose my shots anytime soon.

snubz

HolyshitHolyshitHolyshitHolyshitHolyshit...">HolyshitHolyshitHolyshitHolyshitHolyshit....

HOHHHHH-LEE-SHIT-UH!

HolyshitHolyshitHolyshitHolyshitHolyshit...">HolyshitHolyshitHolyshitHolyshitHolyshit....

Aaron Martin-Colby

@szrimaging: umm...that was supposed to be ungodly uncomfortable.

szrimaging

@beekerstudios: I don't know. It looks like it may be modular enough to replace my Nikon. I shoot ski, so I am in the field and hand held a lot. But it does look ungodly comfortable, so I think a D3 is still better bang for the buck.

Now if only I had the bucks.....

szrimaging

@beekerstudios: I use a D200 professionally.....what are you trying to say?

szrimaging

@beekerstudios: Wait, the Scarlet has a force-field, too? To keep other cameras from touching it? I definitely want one now!

jswilson64

It's not a DSLR. There's not a mirror and prism for composing. For stills, it's basically a (VERY) fancy version of the point-and-shoot digital camera. You're using the imaging sensor for composing.

And still vaporware, right? Those aren't real product shots, are they?

jswilson64

As a videographer and photographer I really, really think this is going to change the game. Imagine working at a news agency and shooting photos and video with one camera and one learning curve (assuming you can compose a shot and carry your equipment with you). You can get content for print and web/video from one person. Plus when you're shooting video at these resolutions pulling stills is easier than it has been in the past (not that that's recommended, but as a last resort).

This will change the way people make films and shoot video (it already has), and it's only a matter of time before they tie up the photo end as much as they have the video end.

dontbescene

@jswilson64: lost in translation huh?, I responded earlier, meant to say "PEOPLE STOP LOOKING at the high-end".

beekerstudios

@szrimaging: that this is for film makers, get off your high-horse, was just saying this product is not for you.

beekerstudios

So now that we've seen all the renders, when do we get to see a physical object?

WolfDemon

@markarian: Cooke makes some of the finest lenses for motion picture photography.

"The Cooke RED Set includes: a Cooke S4/i 15-40mm, T2.0 CXX Zoom and Cooke S4/i 50mm, 75mm and 100mm, T2.0 Prime Lenses, a protective glass cover for the CXX Zoom lens and a rigid carry case to hold all four lenses."

r0ckface

@spaceman37: I've tried to use the EOS conversion before on theXL1, it was a mess. The magnification factor was ridiculous unless you have a really wide angle lens.

r0ckface

@markarian: Don't get me wrong. I think it will be a great camera. But it just makes me worry that the RED modular setup might end up being a jack of all trades, master of nothing.

And yes, I was going to mention the crop factor. I don't know how it will all work, attaching Canon and Nikon lenses with different backplane measurements and such. Also, can the RED communicate autofocus info to the lenses?

I am sure their glass is very nice too, but my point was really how MUCH they will make. Really, RED cameras will get optimal results with RED lenses. So how many lenses will they make? Will they make macros, telephotos, tilt-shift, primes?

Again, while I think RED makes superb video cameras, I just don't see professional photographers (the only ones who would dream of dropping this kind of coin on a still camera) defecting to RED's system.

markarian

This thing reminds me of the Stoner Weapons system, which may have been one of the best weapons ever made, but it was too complicated for the average GI to maintain in the field.

"The Stoner 63 is more than just a single firearm; it is a modular kit, which contains about 15 sub-assemblies. Different combinations of those sub-assemblies (barrels, feed units, trigger units, sight units) allow the assembly of various firearms on the single receiver unit..."
[world.guns.ru]

Gary_7vn

@spaceman37: the whole system is modular. i.e. the canon, nikon, pl, b4, c mount, or red mount lenses will attach without any focal length change.

most people here seem to think its aimed at the DSLR world. It's not, in fact it's not a DSLR, there is no mirror. Red calls it the DSMC (digital still and motion camera). and it is primarily focused on digital cinema, images comparable to 35mm even 65mm motion pictures. They threw in still capability because they could, and it means buying less equipment that way.

dubalstr1

Sweet! You will might have a tough time getting pass airport security, because they want to see work ; )

trailingedge

@mconheady: I'm seeing the electrical contacts in the adaptors, so AF and IS should be doable. Note that RED's decided to go with in-lens IS with their own lenses, too, so they should be able to do that.

What I'm guessing on the AF side is that Canon EOS lenses have full AF and only the newer AF-S lenses from Nikon would have full AF.

vinzer

@beekerstudios: You're the one who's lost in translation. Try this sentence for size: "a high-end pro-sumer camera still doesn't touch the scarlet!"

vinzer

@beekerstudios: How about another apples to apples comparison? For the same $3000, you're set with a 5D with a 35mm sensor with better still capabilities than a RED with its 2/3" sensor.

I appreciate the low cost of professional video this presents, but some people here are looking at the still capabilities, since Jannard has been quite the hype-machine with it.

To quote you, "GEEZUS."

vinzer

@beekerstudios: It's you who should get off your high horse, tourist.

vinzer

@markarian: I actually think that the modular system adds to the appeal of the RED system. You don't have to upgrade videocams wholesale by going the way of RED, which means it's much more economical in the long run than, say, Sony's CineAlta system.

Need a better sensor? Swap out the 2/3" one with the 645 one for much cheaper than buying a whole new camera.

Of course, these are really not for me, a mere hobbyist photographer, but I can see the value proposition by going the RED route if I was an owner of a small production house.

vinzer

@citizen024: How? Last time I checked, Canon is one of the top two heavyweights in the camera industry, with a commanding market share. Most people who are into photography know and respect Canon. Only a small percentage of those even know that RED intended to create a hybrid (though they will know come NAB next year or something).

It seemed to me that RED even backtracked on Scarlet and Epic plans and redid them in light of the 5D Mark II. And the images they showed in the lead-up to the announcement are CG renders (as Jannard himself mentioned in the RED forums), thus leading more credence to the notion that they have redone the idea in light of Canon's news.

Finally, that RED has an adaptor for the Canon and Nikon mounts says as much as who's really in the seat of power. Perhaps RED hasn't moved much of their own lenses to be confident in going at it by their lonesome.

vinzer

@mconheady: Yeah, plus the already mentioned 6x magnification effect. Not too good for wide-angle shots.

djangopool9

@BambalinaKenndey:
Sorry to say, Canon was used in the Matrix time slice effect: [www.photographyblog.com]

djangopool9

@weatherman: On the other hand, this completely ignores the fact that YouTube still limits the resolution of their videos on their end. The day they'll stream 1080p video, much less some of the insane resolutions offered by RED, is still some way off.

icelight

@beekerstudios:

Plus, the average filmmaker will soon be able to rent a RED setup to save even more money.

You'd be a fool to "buy" this unless you had a few million dollar commitments.

Renting is always the way to go if you only make one or two films a year... especially if you don't make much or any money.

MichaelScrip

@Herman:

> "Anyway, if I had $30000 to spend like it were change I'd get one."

Not me. I'd buy a normal professional camcorder... and spend the rest on lights, microphones, etc.

If I had a feature film to shoot, and could make money on it, and it had to be shot on a RED system... I'd rent a RED... not buy!

MichaelScrip

@Herman: @Herman: Red has already been selling cameras and lenses for a while now and they've been gaining universal approval. Not to mention that Red also accepts the film industry PL mount and that Cooke Optics and other film optics companies have been supporting Red for a while. They don't have to BEAT decades of experience, they just have to use it. FYI Red's founder started Oakley and as a result has connections to lens expertise for multiple markets.

GiraldoCestrinus

@nikox: "High end video, which RED obviously provides, requires higher-quality optics than still photography." Really? That makes no sense to me. The resolution of still images is LIGHT YEARS beyond what any display is showing these days, so why would better optics be required for video? Especially once you add in the factor of movement in video versus the ability to study a still pic. But I was wrong once before, so I suppose it could happen again. ;-) Care to elaborate?

RhettGalumphing

Even with interesting specs, I dont think that the red dslr will penetrate the high end market that incredibly well...however the mounting options for your existing lenses is rather nice

Munich33

to the comments regarding RED lenses. a red prime is prices 19975$, and zooms are priced over 6500$. all aimed to professional video market. they are made in colaboration with cooke who makes lenses from 1890. i guess the lenses are very good, probably better then canon or nikon

GodwinJules

@vinzer: ZING!

beekerstudios