@Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine:
Last time I checked, none of the digital interfaces go above 60Hz. Not DVI, Not HDMI, not Displayport. So that 120Hz TV you bought is really doing nothing that a well made 60Hz tv couldn't do.... and outputting anything over 60Hz is pointless.

b0bcat

@mpjohnst: Sorry, I meant to say that they "aren't" eeking out more processing power.

mpjohnst

@xa3021: Sure, but I feel you are missing the point. It has already been out for 2+ years now and they aren't doing anything innovative with it. They are eeking out more processing power with the same unit, they aren't putting four PS3 into an unique/smaller form factor, etc... It is like putting some new blades in a server and then going, "wow, look how much more data we can process!"

mpjohnst

But now if Frooch had used four PS3s, he would have gotten the most out of Panasonic's 150" plasma.

Nintenboy01

yea well, even if i had four ps3s and the technical knowledge to pull this off, my tv wouldn't handle it.

ilves

@TriggaHappy26: No you are wrong. The power of the two machines is very similar. In some areas the PS3 wins, in others the 360 wins.

Sony's original marketing claims about the machine being much faster than the 360 were basically lies.

One of my best friends is a games programmer who develops for both platforms, and he tells me that the two systems are fairly close. So I'm not just blurting out fanboisms like you seem to be.

LittleJon

Pooh! A single GTX 280 card can easily render GT5 at 2160p or higher. The RSX in the PS3 is essentially just a GeForce 7800 with half the ROPs and memory bus width.

Nintenboy01

@Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->:

Going plaid would just be ludicrously fast

ilves

@impliedsurprise:

I remember this arcade game:
[en.wikipedia.org]

discounteggroll

maybe its just a really good diagram but it seems pretty obvious that if you were to hook up 4 systems, you could quadruple the resolution like that.

Optimus-Prime

Sony and partners can't do anything right or is it just haters doing their usual lowly stuff. I bet it's the latter.

WickedEast1

@G-Ram: He would have had 4 PS3's if someone hadn't bit his hand at the Best Buy.

Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->

@winmac: You mean I'll lose the bleeps, the sweeps, and the creeps?

Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->

@mpjohnst: I disagree, the PS3 has a far superior processor. Four xBox 360's hooked together, if possible, would maybe give you half of a single PS3's power.

xBox sucks!

TriggaHappy26

Yes! A TRUE reason to finally one-up this guy.

+ Watch video

G-Ram

@JazlynJobonomic: Ok! Ok! Uncle already! :P

ripfire

@mpjohnst: "...and the PS3 is really just doing what a PS3 does. "

What? Kicking ass!?

xa3021

@ripfire: Actually, if you look at the document, it shows that the image produced is indeed 240FPS. Each PS3 is producing 60FPS, and each PS3 is offset by 1/240th of a frame, then the frames are combined. Thus, each PS3 calculates every fourth frame of the 240FPS. It is indeed full 240FPS. Perhaps you didn't realize that we're talking about two different pictures here; one 4K image @60FPS, and one 1080 image @240FPS.

JazlynJobonomic

@bosskev: Yeah, as I read more into it, you're right. Stupid me didn't realize "OR" at the headline.

ripfire

@Jason Chen: Aren't you missing the real star of this project, the Sony 19 inch nano-Spindt FED?

BigDogues

@ripfire: No, the 240fps is done at 1080p, not the 2160p, so the 240fps is 240 full fps. The 2160p is done in quadrants...

I would love to know if it's even remotely conceiveable to notice a diff in your standard 30/60fps and 240fps... cool tech demo...

FreshJulius

@ripfire: Hate to disagree with you, but that's not how I interpret the graph at all.

It reads to me that they are interleaving each of the four separate full-image feeds to create a single 1920x1080 image. So, yes, it would be 240 full images per second.

bosskev

I give it an official "meh".

Am I the only one who is not impressed here? Seems like you could bolt for xbox's together to do the same thing (with a different game of course). There are no real technological break-throughs being displayed here other than the FED TV. That projector has been shown for over two years now and the PS3 is really just doing what a PS3 does.

mpjohnst

I'd love to see a Youtube video of that! (kidding, kidding)

rockstarjoe

@ripfire: The whole screen overall would still be 60fps.

ripfire

@Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->: that's too fast...plus you run the risk of getting jammed

winmac

this would make me want to go back to the arcade. i mean it was made obsolete by console tech because we could now all play tekken 5 at home for "free". I don't think anyone would buy 4 ps3's + games + projector just to play this, leaving only the larger arcades to pick this up.

does anyone remember that Ferrari driving game in the arcades about a decade ago? it was a driving simulator with 3 screens and was supposed to be super realistic? i always thought that was cool, even though i was crap at it. they need more stuff like that...

impliedsurprise

@Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine: 240FPS is misleading. If you look at the diagram, it's producing four separate quadrants each at 60FPS. They just add them together and say 240FPS.

ripfire

@gerbick: Ha! Couldn't have said it any better.

ripfire

so I need to buy 4 ps3 to play the new gran tourismo? great...

:3

Ftp1423

@misterwho: Amazing how that works.

Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine

If you hook up 5, will it go plaid?

Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->

@ 240! That's faster than the human eye can see...

Except in high-speed porn mode!

misterwho

wow. now lets set up 10000 and make sky net.

detraya

Ahhh, so that's who bought the PS3.

LoganSix

Ok, Crytek really need to bring Crysis and WarHead over to the PS3!!!!!

CarlosLopez

Once you get passed a certain number of frames per second, I don't suppose it matters anymore, since your mind will still see the same kind of motion because it fills in the HOLY SHIT that's fantastic!

Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine

How about finishing the game for the PS3 and PSP first!?

gerbick

@TriggaHappy26: Those are measures of PEAK processing performance.

Peak performance is never achieved due to other bottlenecks in the system (such as memory bandwidth). That is why people use real-world programs as benchmarks for system performance.

When you read a review of a PC/graphics card system they run games and 3DMark tests in order to find out how fast it is. They never just quote the raw peak GFLOPS performance - it's meaningless.

This is even true of supercomputers. Typically modern supercomputers only achieve <10% of their peak theoretical performance due to process-to-memory and processor-to-processor communications bottlenecks and latency.

So back to the PS3 vs. 360 nonsense. Real-world code running on the two machines is fairly well matched overall. As I say, in some areas the PS3 wins, in others the 360 wins. Any other measure is meaningless.

Of course it's also worth mentioning that we are now in the realm where linear differences in performance do not result in perceivable differences in quality.

Linear improvements in the perceived performance of 3D graphics requires exponential increases in processing power, so even if the PS3 were 2x faster than the 360 (which it isn't in real code) the perceived difference would be small. We are having to apply massive amounts of processing power for fairly subtle things like anti-aliasing and pixel shader effects.

In other words, do not believe the overly-simplified specs. Just like you should buy a camera based on the number of megapixels, you shouldn't buy computing or games hardware based on GFLOPS.

LittleJon

@Optimus-Prime: It's not really that simple. They have to get the machines to share render times equally. It's not as if they have a special disk that just lets you play the upper left hand corner of the game, one for the lower right, and so on, and they just plug them all into the TV. So the fact that they did it without losing any efficiency actually is kind of impressive, at least to me.

Decaye

Let's be serious here. Even if it can show above 60 fps, it's pretty universally accepted that the highest the human eye can detect is about 30 fps. After that, we don't notice much difference. 240 fps is completely unnecessary, at least for video games.

thebigcheese

@TriggaHappy26: Xbox has more memory, better graphics, faster busing. And also games. Fun ones, that people actually buy.

I dunno if anyone told you, but games aren't as simple as math problems. my PS3 is awesome for folding proteins on Life With Playstation, but there's more to running games, which kind of explains why most cross-platform games run more smoothly on the 360.

Decaye

@Jon B.: So true.

sgtteddybear

@TriggaHappy26: "I exaggerated it a bit..."

So that makes it a fact?

sgtteddybear

@TriggaHappy26: The bulk of the console's workload is on the GPU not the CPU and the 360's Xenos GPU outmatch PS3's RSX.

ripfire

@gerbick: Seconded. I'm tired of Sony thinking the Urinary Olympics matters. Finish the goddamn game or shut up, Sony.

novacthall

@G-Ram:

3 ps3's and closest thing he's ever gotten to a woman is playing heavenly sword...

bflorin

@b0bcat: Does any of it really matter to the user? We get it, the PS3 has a powerful processor. But who is going to network four PS3s together like that in a real world situation?

EBone

@gerbick: i have been waiting 5 years for gran turismo 5

purple-pillows

Great! All I need is 16 PS3s to run GT5:P in 2160p and 240 FPS.

...That and the $114,000 projector.

Parkington

@ilves: I know, you'd have to fasten all seatbelts, seal all entrances and exits, close all shops in the mall, cancel the three ring circus, and secure all animals in the zoo?

Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->

@LittleJon: Here is a nice objective article explaining how much better the PS3 is. I exaggerated it a bit, but as you can plainly see the PS3 is much faster.

Summation of article:
PS3 = 218 GFLOPS
Xbox 360 = 115.2 GFLOPS

So.... 4 of each is
PS3 = 872 GFLOPS
Xbox = 460.8 GFLOPS

TriggaHappy26

Amazing!

Now...if only they would produce better games...

Jon B.

@Jon B.: Crysis is coming out for the ps3, and play the resistance series. The only good games for the 360 are gears and halo.

ReapdaSlaughter is teh owner its just what he does

@Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine: hahaha, my reaction exactly.

dogcow

sounds like it was pretty sick:
[www.gran-turismo.com]

would be nice if they had screen caps, though.

spundot

@LittleJon: "Just like you should buy a camera based on the number of megapixels"

Argh! Just like you SHOULDN'T buy a camera...

Where's that edit button when you need it?

LittleJon

@Jon B.: Well at this point I think it beats the Wii at least in terms of software. 2007 was the Wii's best year so far IMO.

Nintenboy01

its a tech demo people, lol. calm down

efenili

@TriggaHappy26: Oh! I should also have mentioned that as raw GLOPS increases the communications bottlenecks become worse. A few decades ago supercomputers achieved close to 50% of their peak performance in real code.

As the processors get faster the memory and inter-processor communications don't get faster by the same amount, so the gap gets bigger and the returns on increased GFLOPS gets less.

I should also have mentioned that it's really difficult to get all the Cell's cores working efficiently. Much of the time several of them will be idle, waiting for other threads to complete.

LittleJon

@LoganSix:
And he got all four of them too.. subsidized by Sony, no less.

crsh1976

@Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->:

What about the bearded lady?

ilves

@Decaye: Yep, especially since the number of polygons rendered per frame by each PS3 is different and the overhead for cross-communication can be high.

Nintenboy01

@thebigcheese: In this case "universally accepted" means "I am talking out of my ass"

[www.100fps.com]

Decaye

@Decaye: Only component on the table is the CPU not GPU, or memory or bus. Read prior postings before chastizing me.

@sgtteddybear: No, I exaggerated in previous post, this post was from research.

TriggaHappy26

Realistically the human eye can see faster than 60fps. And even higher than 100fps. Your brain is just stitching those images together to create a movie and filling in the empty spots. If we could only see at 60 fps, then baseball would really suck since no one would see the ball coming until it hit them.

DakotaLamia

@mpjohnst: I think the point is that you CAN'T "bolt 4 XBox's together". It's because of the cell processor that makes this kinda of processor sharing possible.

MajellaCabatan

@CarlosLopez:

to run it at 5fps!?

aznplayer213

@cristiana: Or you can just have a native 24p reproduction on Pioneer and Panasonic displays.

ripfire

@detraya: shit
lol

mkat_tdc

@Decaye:

LOL. Soooo true.

WickedEast1

@ReapdaSlaughter is teh owner its just what he does: Exactly why I didn't choose the 360.

Nintenboy01

@ReapdaSlaughter is teh owner its just what he does: Listing a couple shooters does not encompass the total amount of good games on the 360.

ripfire

@b0bcat:
One main reason that 120hz tvs exist is to watch movies at their native frame rate of 24 frames per second. A 60hz tv cannot evenly display 24 frames, so (simply put) , it does what is called a 3:2 pulldown, which converts 4 frames into 5, so that every other frame will be displayed slightly longer than the previous. A 120hz tv can do a 5:5 pulldown which eliminates the every other frame being shown for too long.

cristiana

@EBone: it was just a teck demo for the 10th birthday of GT just having fun man enjoy

mpar

@ripfire: What else there is on the 360?

@Jon B.: Complaining that the PS3 doesn't have good games is as old as your grandma's armpit. No matter what games the PS3 has, haters will always keep singing the same tune.

WickedEast1

looks like it would be of limited use, but how about 2 ps3s and 120hz, hooked up to 120 hz tvs which are now available? Or maybe incorporating the tech in future hardware so you can buy a ps3x2 in a single case ( or even a ps3x4 ). I'm taliking a few years down the road, when the hardware costs for a ps3 get cheaper. It's good they're researching this now, who knows....

LandonGalopagus

@G-Ram: You beat me to it.

ltethe

@impliedsurprise: erh.. Im SURE some people WILL... but Im not so sure its many enough to justify having engineers working on it.. -.-

D_Zarster

@EBone: Well maybe if they quit wasting their work time on giz... ;)

ripfire

@mpar: As someone else said, just finish the damn game already. The PS3 has been out for two years now.

EBone

@MajellaCabatan: exactly. The Xbox processor is a modified IBM G5 chip used in the Apple Powermacs. I'm sure to some extent it can be done but not nearly as efficient as a Cell processor.

imTheKing

@LittleJon: I just want to mention that nowhere did I claim the PS3 was better at playing video games. My claim was that the PS3 processor was awesome and far superior to the Xbox 360. It is for this reason that some people, like the people this post is about, buy multiple and link them. My school had 6 linked and used it as a render farm.

I just wanted to clarify, that even though it is my opinion that PS3 is better at games, I did not make that claim here.

TriggaHappy26

@novacthall: Well they do have GT5 Prologue. I guess you can settle with that in the meantime.

ripfire

All that and these fools can't include PS2 backwards compatibility? WTF.

I kinda wanna maybe buy one now that the price has come down, but want my old games upscaled and don't wanna have to deal with 2 Sony consoles + all the wiring in the console rack... :\

ZukeZuke

The guys that make the GT series are nutty... just crazy. I'd like to see their obsessive code tweaking go to some other genre than flipping racing though.

Every time they release a game its so smooth and cutting edge... Let them make an RPG or an FPS dammit. I'm sure they'd like a break anyway.

squish123

@imTheKing: This is true. The PS3 seems to be a more solid machine. I have not heard many cases of PS3's dying and needing to be sent back to Sony. Yet every single person I know who has an Xbox 360 has had the Red Ring of Death. One guy got it twice. That is not an exaggeration.

As far as the games go, Uncharted, MGS4, Socom are all awesome PS3 only games. Xbox has some games I have wanted to play, but I hate the controller feel and refuse to use it.

TriggaHappy26

@ripfire: thats a bit exaggerated. You also have to account for a lot of people wanting a solid piece of hardware that will be reliable and last. There are more than just gaming reasons for buying a system today. Consoles are capable of a very large amount of tasks now.

imTheKing

This isn't 240fps. It's four separate PS3s running a portion of the original image at 60fps.

It's like saying four cars driving 60mph next to each other on the highway are going 240mph. It's simply false. They may log that many combined miles in an hour (or in this case frames in a second), but that's not how fast they were going.

It's good to see this is what it'll take to get the game to run at 60fps, though.

b-radicate

@imTheKing: "Consoles are capable of a very large amount of tasks now."

That's a bit exaggerated. Although I could agree with you on one point that my 360 MCE extender is really handy on my home entertainment needs. But when people buy a console, chances are it's because of the games.

@TriggaHappy26: Let me ask you this: Name me the top 5 games that were ported from PS3 to 360.

From what I see, there are far more 360 games ported to PS3. Ever wonder why?

ripfire

@Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->: LOL!

I was kinda thinking it wasn't such a bad attempt at "humor" until he showed that shot of his bedroom. Now my eyes are burning.

ZukeZuke

@MajellaCabatan:

exactly. Though, while i'm sure you could hook 4 360's together just fine, a group of PS3's is going to win in power. The cell processer is what makes the PS3 work so well when grouped together, it's pretty much made for working together. That's why the PS3 is being set up to be used by universities in their simulations or works well with folding at home.

Not that it helps play games any better than the other, but at least it's there XP

RendiaX

Who cares? Anything more than 60 or 100 Hz in a game is wasted frame buffer. Why don't they spend the extra power on making games, you know, better? And who wants to play a driving game if you have monitor bezels in the middle of your field of view anyway?

mrAnderson

all i need is 1 computer with a Decent GPU to get 240 FPS in Half-Life 2.

ajcali08

@ripfire: Because the 360 has been out longer, therefore has more games. There is no doubt that the xbox has a lot more games by a lot of 3rd party developers. Sony's best games are the ones that are made by Sony companies or franchises loyal to Sony. This is why you have Socom (sony game), Uncharted (sony game), and metal gear 4 (been on PS since PS1). There is no way Sony will allow their best games, made by them to be ported to the rival console. This is the same reason you will never find Halo or Gears of War on the PS3.

TriggaHappy26

@aznplayer213: You throw 10 PS3 units against it and you get 50 FPS ^-^

So yeah it is possible but you need more PS3 to play it

TBM-Fan

@ReapdaSlaughter is teh owner its just what he does:

HAHAHAHA! Only good games for the 350 are Halo and Gears? Oh Lawdy what a pathetic fanboy you are.

Prey521

@ripfire: Really, you can't. The fact they're charging for a glorified tech demo is nothing shy of criminal. They've taken one of their strongest IPs and turned it into an endless tech demo joke, and that's a crying shame.

novacthall

@ripfire: The 360 is easier to build for but is capped in how complex games can be. Thats why there are more games, easier development obviously makes for that. As a system, theres no arguing the fact that the PS3 is 95% more reliable and a better machine over all. You seem like your just trolling any posts having to do with the PS3 to justify why your Xbox is better with games. To be honest, I barely have time nor the wanting to play games to such an extent. I work, come home, run a side business and watch a movie now and again. I try not to base my existence on virtual reality.

imTheKing

@b-radicate: you missed an earlier comment that clarifies that. They also had all 4 PS3s render a single 1080p image at 240FPS.The 2160p image was 60FPS as a whole.

Nintenboy01

@Nintenboy01:

I really doubt a GTX280 could render a 2160p image of GT5 at 60 frames a second.

jeembomb

Cool a tech demo for PSFOUR!

(ahaaha, get it?)

Voohoo

@gerbick: I make correction to this article....

what it reads:
"What's the team a Polyphony Digital doing besides finishing their upcoming Gran Turismo 5 racing simulator?"

What it should read:
"What's the team a Polyphony Digital doing instead of finishing their upcoming Gran Turismo 5 racing simulator?"

if it aint true, it most certainly feels like that to me... wasn't GT5 supposed to be a launch PS3 title?

lulz XD

segamanxero

@gerbick: I agree, I've been salivating over this game for a long time now... may actually make me go out and buy a PS3... so just release the damn thing!

reefer

@TriggaHappy26: Oh please. Only reason they get exclusivity is because they all run under Sony's paycheck. "Franchise Loyal to Sony"? Oh you mean Metal Gear? but I clearly remember playing MGSubstance on the Xbox. Where's the loyalty then? To be fair the same could be said for MS. Even though GoW was exclusive for 360 (paid for MS most likely), the same engine was still used for UT3 which came out for both platforms.

But one thing you will rarely see is a 3rd party initially developing for PS3 and porting it to 360 and there's a reason why.

ripfire

@gerbick:

Amen.

I had been trying my hardest to not even buy a PS3 until GT5 was released.
But upon the rumors of Polyphony pushing 5 all the way to a PS4 caused me to finally buy one and GT5P about three months ago. Sadly, driving around the Nurburgring in GT4 finally got trite.

Webran61

@imTheKing: "The 360 is easier to build for but is capped in how complex games can be." Is that why 3rd party developers who port their games to PS3 have to "downgrade" their titles that's I'm recently hearing about from a Sony exec?

So now I'm trolling? You're saying that I'm justifying Xbox games are better than PS3 while saying that PS3 "a better machine over all"? Feeling comfortable on your high stirrups?

I have no problem with gaming platforms when it comes to games be it on PS3 or 360 (as long as its good). PS3 as a hardware is spectacular, but it leaves software as an afterthought which pretty much sums up Sony's model.

ripfire

@b0bcat:
might wanna recheck your facts there slick...HDMI can indeed do 120hz with no problem. it has been able to since HDMI 1.2

deadatbirth

@b-radicate: sorry , I posted a comment that reflected what you said in this post.
good point btw!
-mad

madlogik

2 things

1: is more FPS like LOUDER SOUND ?

2: ... It's still 60 fps ... per machine ... 4x to fill the projection screen ... you can add up 60fps times 4 ...
for this you would need either 1 ps3 @ 240fps or 4 if you wish but each running at 240 fps too ...

thanks for reading it felt good.

madlogik

@ripfire: Yeah and this is a post about a "tech demo" showing what they can do. Why bother coming in here and spouting the same thing over and over: "name 5 games blah blah blah". Your history shows that youve been in every single post so far concerning the PS3 posting about how you can play games on a 360. I hate to be the one to really call you out on it but I mean come on now, let people talk with each other in some civil respect about the post at hand.

End of the day, PS3 owners are able to use their systems whether it be for Blu-ray, Gaming, Media streaming or Folding.

imTheKing

@ReapdaSlaughter is teh owner its just what he does: WTF? 360 has tons of great games!

Ariel_Wollinger

Guys, I have the sony 4K projector at work. Can someone borrow 4 PS3s?

Ariel_Wollinger

Actually fighter pilots are up in the 400fps recognition area

droopy1592

so does one actually hook up multiple ps3s in parallel to play a game like this? It is simpler than I think it is? Would I need a copy of the game for each machine? I would love to do this to bump of the framerate on games likes gtaIV

genghiskhan

Wow, that's really cool. I hope it makes it to the final game like Forza 2's multi-screen rendering.

photoboy