Welcome to copyright licensing.

ZAPPO1123

This won't end well.

takashimiike yes really

@the_sidewinder: Indeed. If it's used in an educational context then it falls back into that fair use thing... same reason teachers can copy pages out of books that say "DO NOT COPY" across the bottom and distribute them to the class. It's for education, so copyright does not matter much.

greatpear411

Now you know: [xkcd.com]

unfletch

@natenovs:
Well, Vista computers would have to offer those ports in the first place ; )

My guess is that this was just a software oversight on Apple's part and will be fixed in an update, especially since some content works and some doesn't.

JHB8000

@the_sidewinder: In Canada, that is

the_sidewinder

@Spyrojoe: I don't know about the US, but there are workarounds when used in an "Educational" situation

the_sidewinder

Not that I'm pro-DRM or anything, but wouldn't playing a movie on a projector for a class be illegal unless you specifically obtained permission from the publisher saying you could play the content in public.

Spyrojoe

so - this is worse than what i've seen that 'drm-laden' vista do. any apple fanboys wanna take anything they said back?

natenovs

DRM sucks, it locks people who honestly acquire media. It DOES NOTHING to prevent those of us who pirate media and or circumvent DRM protected media.

Dont get me wrong... Im all for copyright and intellectual property protection, but DRM is not the way to protect your works.

segamanxero

@the_sidewinder:
Yep totally agreed. When you get your stuff legally, it causes the most hassel. It does not stop hackers, but normal people.

As Steve Jobs might say if he wasn't affiliated with Apple, its a "bag of hurt." That's my whole opinion of itunes, DRM and and all that BS copy protection. It does no legitimate copy protection whatsoever.

nosauten

That's all DRM has ever been able to do. Anyone who wants to get around DRM can and will. Those that DRM is meant to stop, aren't even affected by it, as the source that they are using doesn't have any.

DRM only hurts the honest non tech savvy people.

the_sidewinder

@getz76: "When my friend John, a high school teacher, attempted to play Hellboy 2 on his classroom's projector with a new aluminum MacBook over lunch, he was denied by the error you see above. "

He was probably just trying to watch a movie during his break.

Bootes

I wonder what, John, the high school teacher's lesson was on, involving Hell Boy 2? ::enter speculators' comments::

onewiththewurlitzer

@undefined: I want to know which teacher is trying to show "Drillbit Taylor" to their class. is that some sort of ethnography?

PobreGizmo

So the lesson to be learned here is to stop purchasing hi-def content through iTunes?

Jrsy is the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude

@getz76: I vote for Bill Nye

the_sidewinder

@Spyrojoe: Educational settings are considered fair use and do not infringe upon copyright. See here for more info:

[www.copyright.gov]

onewiththewurlitzer

What the hell is the teacher doing? Hellboy 2? How about some basic math, you lazy American brats?

getz76

YEAAHHHHH DOWN WITH THE PIRATES

mpar

No walls.

The Brain

@Spyrojoe: Where's the line between public broadcasting, and just inviting some people over to watch the movie with you?

teexcue

@the_sidewinder: Here's info on the "Fairuse" thing ;-)

Dearhaw

@Spyrojoe:
Actually the clause is "non-commercial" screening. And education is non-commercial, just as lending a DVD to your friend is also non-commercial. The only requirement is that you've actually paid for the content, otherwise it's all illegal in the context of piracy.

For this reason, some teachers used to be cautious about screening content they recorded from TV, since TV networks never really disclose this kind of "fair use" clause.

terebakashi

@natenovs:

Perhaps you missed the part about how this is presumably a hardware issue (see the sentence where it says "Macbook"?) and not a software/OS issue. I.e., if you run the exact same version of OSX (currently 10.5.5) on an older Mac, you're not going to have this problem.

And if you think Apple is, or will be, the only hardware manufacturer that's building in HDCP into their hardware, you better wake up and smell the coffee. I had to upgrade my HDTV last January precisely for this reason (it couldn't play DVD over DVI). And there will be, if there already isn't, a Vista laptop with the same.

On another note, couldn't the high school teacher simply connect his laptop to the projector using VGA (or *shudder* S-Video) to play the movie? I guess he just didn't have the appropriate adapter, but it is misleading to suggest it was impossible for him to play the movie on the projector; it should've worked fine as long as he used an analog signal.

Dearhaw

So, how ling until HDCP circumvention adapters are brought to market?

jkr's bold comment

@Jrsy is the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another du...:
Nope, this same protection exists on many other formats as well.

HDCP is built into Vista, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and I'm sure it'll unfortunately find it's way onto many other formats in the future.

How does the customer benefit from this?

Terc

Hmm, not sure I get the concept.

A. Thanks for buying that movie/album from us. You can only play it back on specialized hardware that makes sure you're not going to try and back it up. Oh, and you'll need to buy a new copy for each type of device you'd like to play it on.

VS

B. "Steal" the media, play it back on whatever you want, make as many copies as you like, share with all your friends (and thus get them excited about it). Convert it to whatever format you like. (Oh, you want a copy for your iPod? Ok! How about a copy that fits on a DVD? Sure. One for your great new 1080P TV? No problem, use the original)

I fail to see the advantages to option A.
I wish I could get my money directly to the Artists.

Terc

@Jrsy is the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another du...: The lesson here is that you should do the same thing I've been doing for many years. Pirate things you've bought. I believe in paying for things that are truly worth it (probably not Hellboy), but I just stick my purchased copies on a shelf and use my pirated ones. I support products I like, but don't let any of their DRM bullshit prevent me from using what I've paid for.

Boycotting is always an option, but I don't see enough people really understanding this stuff to make it work and I really like my movies and games. ;)

Bootes

@Terc: The only thing inaccurate about this statement is that there's probably no need to convert it, because someone else likely already went to the trouble.

The ONLY drawback to piracy (other than the artificial legality issues our media industry has injected into our government) is that there is no accurate way to compensate the creators of the content if you decide to go this route...and that is the fault of the media industry to begin with.

hexydes

@Dearhaw:

That's going to be exactly what it is. They included the new port, but didn't update the software to disable HDCP. (The technology isn't widespread enough yet to make it worth it being enabled)

JHB8000

Sadly, I am more interested to know why a teacher is wasting class time showing movies and not TEACHING.

DRM has a work around I am sure.

critifur

Does Requiem breaks this?

phr3ak

@JHB8000: Which sort of dings the integrity of the whole Apple chant of "it just works". It just works... unless it doesn't.

Preyfar

his surprised me because Apple's 20' 23' and 30' Apple Cinema Displays do NOT support HDCP. I guess I will be stuck with the only option is to steal videos instead of buying them.

UptonEgonon

@critifur: It was at lunch.

CarrerCrytharis

@markarian:

yeah right, hypcorisy indeed.. why hdcp now?

djangopool9

A teacher wanted to play a movie to their class - isnt this against copyright? I agree that not being able to use what ever monitor you want is out of order, however, what sort of turkey broadcasts they are breaking the law?

bins

@nosauten: As sociopathic as Steve Jobs is, he at least was against DRM from the very start.

markarian

@Spyrojoe: "Educational" does get away with more stuff and have other protections, but this doesn't even touch that. As others have said, you are allowed to display the content for non-commercial purposes. Many anime clubs around the nation watch their shows/movies several times a week via a projector. Even the MPAA hasn't tried to claim that it's copyright infringement...and they, like the RIAA, claim almost anything you do is.

Did you never watch movies in class?

geowrian

I think XKCD Said it best http://xkcd.com/488/ DRM makes people into pirates.

YardanKabolla

If this is true, it's absurd. I can't imagine that public displays of movies is a significant copyright issue - I mean, when was the last time you were actually invited to a back-alley showing of Hellboy II in someone's basement where they actually charged you a dollar to get in? The real piracy is still in the P2P networks and the street-level commercial duplication.

weatherman

Forget about the (Devil's!) DRM for a moment and consider the fact that this was one cool teacher. I had the most ironic and sarcastic awesome history teacher, but even she wasn't as cool as that.

Bitstuff

@YardanKabolla: how true. when will these wankers learn? I wouldn't even mind paying for movies if they'd let me. but no. they only let people buy these dodgy knock-offs that break after 5 minutes :)

testrack

@bins: why would it be against copyright?

taftsearlobe33

@getz76: is Lazy American Brats a question?

taftsearlobe33

Apple, it just works...

Joseph

@djangopool9: It's something they have to put in to be able to sell some stuff in the first place, the greedy movie studios (TV-stations and Record Companies) demand it.

Just like how they want Apple to charge different prices for music, movies and TV-shows, when Apple said no to NBC some time ago conserning this they completely puled out of the iTunes store.

L_A_G

This is why I pirate my movies/music, less of a hassle and if I find that I actually like what I'm waching/listening to I can support the makers by buying a real copy.

And don't give me the "you're stealing from honest working people" lecture, the entertainament industy is so full of greedy pircks and idiots (who implemented stuff like DRM and HDCP) I don't care if they are left without a job...

L_A_G

I decided to move my iPhone to another computer, but don't know how to sync all the crap, particularly music. It used to be you just put the music on the other computer, or just sync your device with the other computer. But no. I friggin' hate iTunes. I want everything in 192+kbps mp3s and hands off. And when I think of all the money my friends and siblings are throwing down the rathole on music from iTunes they won't be able to play on anything but Apple devices it really pisses me off.

Take your DRM and shove it, Apple.

stryder100

Yet another thing that simply doesn't happen on a PC.

vista64guy

Yeah, HDCP non universal playback sucks. But imagine if the pro-pirate POV was applied to any other industry:

"Yeah, I steal my computers, and if I like them maybe I'll buy one. If only there was a way to pay the systems engineer directly."

So who are the "artists" who should get paid for movies? The actors who are already overpaid to begin with? Should all the other people in the credits not get paid, from gaffer to bookkeeping, since they're not artists?

And to answer "how is this good for consumers?" The main benefit is if movie companies can make a profit, they'll keep making movies which ensures a stream of new movies for consumers, just as computer company profits ensure a stream of new computers.

I'm not saying it's good in any way to limit the use of any movie you buy in any way. If you buy it it should work on everything everywhere. But the idea that pirating is the answer, as if pirates run around buying things they like (if you do you're one in a trillion), belies that fact that without movie companies there'd be no movies.

As Chuck Norris has said many times: "without angels there'd be no rainbows, which is why I buy my angels rather than pirate them."

frigg

If this isn't a case for HandBrake, I don't know what is. I know that a file extracted and compressed from a standard DVD is not going to be even near HD quality, but it's sure as hell serviceable enough to get the job done, and not have stupid restrictions. Unfortunately, this is not so much an Apple problem, but a content provider problem. The MPAA thinks that everyone is out to get them all the time (and to some extent they are), but this sort of bullshit only gets more people to circumvent their restrictions. I can Netflix their crap for months and rip DVD's and send them back at my leisure for just a few bucks a month if I were so inclined.

Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine

@stryder100: No FLAC? No money from me; fuck off Apple and your obsessively possessive limitations.

Bitstuff

@stryder100: This is why you avoid the DRM'd music, buy only from Amazon.com's mp3 store and/or iTunes Plus, this way you're never restricted by DRM.

Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine

@vista64guy: I'm fairly certain that this has come to PC's first. Remember, Blu-Ray/HD DVD formats have been released on these for some time now, whereas they haven't even come to Apple yet.

Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine

Nothing will stop me from buying movies on iTunes faster than the inability to watch it how I want to watch it.

DRM continues to shoot its content creators in the foot.

magicant

Um, Hellboy 2 educational how?

zanella

@PobreGizmo:

Shop teacher...sorry in advance

Stabio

@magicant:
What I find a little odd is that other 'protected' media worked on playback, which suggests the DRM is different on newer content like Hellboy II. This situation sucks, and, in some ways, is similar to what early adopters went through, i.e., I bought this HDTV (or projector, without HDCP), and now my new DVD/Blu-Ray (with HDCP) won't work with them on HDMI.

Geraldo

Ah. Fabulous. The resale value of my Mac Pro just went up significantly.

"DRM makes people into pirates"

Yes, indeed, and...

"DRM makes manufacturers into enemies of the people"

fyngyrz

I'm hoping the teacher returned his Macbook for a refund? Since output to a projector is what one would expect to be able to do with a laptop, clearly it's defective.

Jeffrey McManus

Yet another reason I'll never buy from Apple.

KLanD

@taftsearlobe33: While I do not endorse or oppose his post,

"How about some basic math, you lazy American brats?",

yes, that is a question.

kazemizuhi

@the_sidewinder: Ok, so let me throw this out there.

I might be in the market for an LCD TV and Bluray player within the next six months. I want to be able to play anything and everything on the TV. I'm considering 1080p, but I might settle for 720p if the price is right.

1. What capabilities do I need on the TV in order for it to be compatible with this HDCP crap? Just "HDCP Capable" slapped on the box somewhere?

2. Do I need a stand-alone Bluray player to play discs, or would a PC with a Bluray drive work just as well?

blackmage439

@jkr's bold comment:
Been out for a while now. Google Spatz-Tech.
They make boxes where HDMI with HDCP goes in and HDMI (and DVI) comes out with no HDCP.

pete

@Bootes:
The lesson here is to rip all DRM'd content into a non-DRM'd format. If you can't do this, don't buy the content at all.

pete

@bins: It falls under "fair use" although I'm sure if big media could they'd get rid of that too. They don't want fair use, they want a "pay us money and i don't give a crap if you can't use it like you want" use.

DvBoard

@natenovs:
This is a hardware issue, specifically a video card issue.
HDCP is baked into video cards now, so platform doesn't matter If you had a video card in a Windows PC that HDCP-compliant and a monitor that wasn't, and it was connected to the monitor with a digital connection (DVI, HDMI, display port), most hi-def content won't play (Blu-Ray, hi-def iTunes movies).
Of course Apple didn't have to make iTunes content HDCP-compliant, but then the content providers would probably not license the content to Apple in the first place.

pete

@KLanD: Keep watch on other laptop manufacturers. HDCP is not an Apple exclusive. As HD content becomes more and more available over the web, you'll find that protective measures will be all over the place.

Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine

@nosauten: But... he did say that. Yes, as @pete points out it was specifically with regards to music, but I think he hates having to play the party line for video content just as much.

Unfortunately, at this point, its all about keeping the momentum of the iTunes Store rolling, and that means doing some less-than-desirable things.

Then again, a perfectly valid business reason doesn't mean it sucks any less.

ars_workerbee2

@Bitstuff: Are there ANY online vendors that supply FLAC? I imagine there has to be at least one, but I don't know of any.

Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine

@markarian:
Not on movies/video he wasn't. He has too big of a stake in Pixar to rock that boat.
He only came out against DRM on music if I remember correctly.

pete

@blackmage439:
Pretty much every LCD "TV" out there today will be HDCP-compliant if it had HDMI inputs.
The problem only shows itself with computer monitors, projectors, etc., and even some of those are HDCP-compliant over HDMI, or even DVI.
So don't worry.

pete

@getz76: Well in America all our public school teachers are members of unions, and they can't be hired or fired at will, nor are good teachers ever promoted or given merit based pay raises. In addition, no one can choose where to send their kids, but instead are forced to send their children to the school that exists in their district. The result is basically the clusterfuck you have today, where teachers show kids movies instead of actually teach them, and schools don't have to compete for money by providing the best education.

robo

Wasn't Jobs the one to chastise the entertainment industry for it's use of DRM. The more i hear the more of a hypocrite he looks to me. I don't know of anyone that uses as much DRM as Apple does these days.

jeepingeek

The most fun part of this post is watching the Apple fanboys who don't "get it" and think this is some mistake that can be fixed.

Welcome to HDCP. You're late to the party. Please check your "fair use" rights at the door. You're not getting them back either.

axiomatic

@undefined:

ITUNES "Because DRM is how we roll"

cyberlink7474

@UptonEgonon: Oh no it's easy. All you have to do is BUY ANOTHER MONITOR. There. See. Easy.
I actually do believe that Jobs is not a fan of DRM, but it's hard to deny there are some benefits for Apple...

SomeAudioGuy

@hexydes: Agreed. If the original Napster had been monetized instead of shut down, we wouldn't be in this mess now.

SomeAudioGuy

@robo: What money? You want "better teacher" competition, start paying better. We can get pissy about unions and such, but you gotta offer more to get better talent.

SomeAudioGuy

@bins: Jesus Christ, dude, didn't you read the comments above? Educational purposes are free from breaking Copyright law.

rcast1986

@hexydes: Yeah but like someone above suggested, you could always buy the original on some format (say, Ironman on DVD), and then pirate a separate version for whatever other uses you'd like. Hassle? Sure, but at least it's possible to get your cash to the hardworking individuals behind your favorite TV shows, movies, and music while being granted the freedom to use your purchased material (by proxy, at least) however the hell you want to.

rcast1986

@getz76: The article didn't specify what kind of teacher it was. My mother was an art teacher for many years and would often play scenes from movies that had some sort of artistic merit in class to garner any sort of enthusiasm for the arts. So don't assume that it's just "lazy american brats", there are plenty of ways that could be a legitimate use of the movie.

Now if we find out that it was a math teacher showing the movie then yes, maybe they should've been learning basic math instead.

korybing

@SomeAudioGuy: Jobs is a fan of anything that puts money into his pocket.

he barfs up anti-drm shit because he knows people will believe it and because there isnt any way around it that the studios will accept.

it's just now becoming normal for MP3's and will not be NORMAL for movies for a long time.

mikeg916

@ars_workerbee2: I still don't get why people are still basically defending him after this hypocritical, one-sided garbage. Bill Gates, or now Ballmer especially, would NEVER get this kind of pass from the press or public. I can't imagine ever hearing the general public saying, "well, it's something he just has to do to keep MS's momentum rolling."

rcast1986

@jkr's bold comment: for windows?

see AnyDVD.

done.

mikeg916

@Spyrojoe: Technically, yes, but don't tell me you've never had a substitute trot out a VCR and TV checked out from the A/V lab and put The Neverending Story on when you were in school. Unless you went to school in the pre-VCR era, of course.

That said, I wish I had this teacher when I was in school. Mine never would have put on movies like Hellboy II. It was always... well, The Neverending Story.

HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak

@SomeAudioGuy: teachers at public schools aren't exactly starving.

and in fact, by the time they are tenured, most make a decent wage.

move to private schools, where people HAVE chosen to send their offspring, and the pay scale increases dramatically.
Thus the reason the best teachers work for private institutions.

BTW, teacher salaries are public information, so look them up for your local schools and you'll probably be surprised how much they really make.

mikeg916

@robo: except you can choose, just not which PUBLIC SCHOOL your child attends.

you can choose to send them t oa PRIVATE SCHOOL and pay for it yourself.

this is what the whole school vouchers debate is about.

i pay taxes to support the public school system, but if i send my children to private school, i do not see the benefit of those tax dollars, and should receive a voucher for the cost of the public school to be applied toward my private school choice.

there are many other portions of this, but that argument is the crux of the situation.

mikeg916

@zanella: The article didn't specify what kind of teacher it was. Could've been an art teacher that wanted to illustrate a certain art principle through a scene in the movie, who knows. Most High School teachers will find any semi-legit reason to show a movie in class, since it usually makes kids pay attention a little more than usual.

korybing

@teexcue: getting paid by those people or not.

paid by them to watch it = commercial use
not paid and just invited over to watch = private

mikeg916

@Kaiser-Machead's Cookie-Powered LEGO Machine: You have a valid point sir, but Apple always seems to go out of their way to make your DRM ilife as painful as possible.

On another note, I have a custom PC and laptop, so I doubt it'll be in my system anytime soon. Also, the methods of getting around it will appear on the PC way before any Mac even gets a whiff of it.

If I buy an HD movie and want to watch it through a composite video out on an old CRT, that is my right.

KLanD

@jeepingeek: Of course he's a hypocrite. As for DRM, of course Apple wants DRM on everything they sell, that way they can screw you out of more cash while giving you less product.

Now you have to buy 1 copy for your Iphone, 1 for your Mac, 1 for your Apple tv, etc.

(ok I exaggerated on the last part, but if Steve had his way I'm sure it would be that way.)

KLanD

Well, that is enough to stop me buying a new Macbook! c'mon Steve, give us the love, and don't sell your soul to Mamon. Basically this would stop me buying a movie at the iTunes store and then projecting it on my HD projector. How daft is that!

ecobore

@geowrian:

That is flat out false. A friend of mine works for the city we live in and every time the "city" plays a movie of choice in a park, they pay a fat license fee to the license holder.

You are NOT ALLOWED IN ANY FORM to publicly display copyrighted material. Video anyway. It is also illegal to use a radio station as MUSIC ON HOLD without permission.

As for a school.... I don't know, one would THINK it would have to be educational. Otherwise, just because you become a training institution that gives you right to pirate anything you want for the sake of education? I doubt it. It has to BE FORE educational reasons.

JEmlay

@mikeg916: I'm aware of anydvd, I have used it for some time. But that isn't the issue according to the article.

jkr's bold comment

@JEmlay: Yeah.. you need to calm down a little bit. There are legit Fair Use uses and I doubt the MPAA even cares if a school is playing a movie in class. I think you're just getting all uptight about a misinformed viewpoint.

Our city has free movies in the park and there's no way they're paying a FAT license fee for the 30 people who show up.

badweasel

@zanella: In High School I had an "Art of Film" class and we watched movies and wrote reviews of them. It was an english writing class. It was progressive and I think I got more out of that class than I did most other english classes.

badweasel

@fyngyrz:
Not to burst your buble but if it's hardware related you can just use another graphics card in an as-yet-unreleased mac pro with display port connectors.

We just upgraded our Mac Pros to ATI's aftermarket HD3870. I can't imagine the next (i7/Xeon) Mac Pro will be without PCIe slots.

I'm not trying to a bummer here, but wishing that non-current (I mean as of whatever moment is now) computer hardware had a higher resale value is like wishing for the universe to stop expanding.

dialing_wand

@axiomatic: We never lost them. We don't see us losing them either. Want to know why, because we have options. If manufacturer X does this, we go to manufacturer Y instead. X figures out he made a mistake, and BAM, that crap is dropped faster than you can say "Fuck Apple". The only way this would happen is to mandate every video card to include such DRM. That's not going to happen for many reasons.

jkr's bold comment

@zanella: creative literature class? or mythology class? or hero's quest? or costume design? or digital animation?

or simply to reward the kids for good behavior or scores. who cares. it's a classroom setting where cash is not being exchanged for the viewing of the movie.

ArcticLotus

I agree that DRM just victimises legitmate purchases of the product. However, I do feel it necessary to point out that DRM policy is set by the copywrite owner not apple, if Hellboy 2 is HDCP DRM protected it will be because the studio insisted on it. Apple have to comply to the DRM requirements of the copywrite owner or they cannot distribute the movie. The title and focus of this article is all wrong, it should have been about the studio enforcing HDCP DRM on Hellboy 2. It is fair to comment on the fact that the new MacBook's enforce HDCP copywrite if it is present but ultimately the studio who is screwing the legitimate consumer.

EganTurdus

This is why Limewire is still in business -- why buy stuff that you might not even be allowed to use?? What is up with that???

PwnageII

@JHB8000: Actually HDCP ports where a requirement for "Vista Ready." For both in order to get the logo on a graphics card as well as to get the logo on a monitor.

DirtyDogg

@spyrojoe@Spyrojoe: Although that technically is illegal (unless used in an educational situation) more and more people own projectors at home. And who's to monitor if it is only one person on their home projector or a classroom of kids at a school? Issues like this fuel piracy. Plain and simple.

MartinAeneas

@jkr's bold comment: Oh, you said APPLE fan boy. For some reason I read "PC" fan boy. Well I think we both agree then.

jkr's bold comment

I know I'm commenting on this kinda late... anyway-

I'm stand corrected from previous statements posted on Giz and elsewhere, and in the Apple store, that no Apple computer has HDCP (High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection) (not High Definition Content Protection)

The original Ars Technica article says that the teacher used a DisplayPort to VGA adapter to connect to the projector. VGA never has carried HDCP. That sucks for him. And it sucks for whoever tries to use their Apple HD Cinema Displays. Those are DVI, and must be converted ($100 adapter), BUT there is a slight chance that they could be HDCP compliant, but unlikely.

And yes, all the hackers in the world are going to steal the data, not the video signal, so HDCP is pretty much useless anyhow. (I know there is encryption on the data, but it's not called HDCP)

I do, however like where they are going with home movies these days- I just bought WALL-E 3 disc Blu-Ray, which has the "Disney File" "Digital Copy" (every format is digital, dammit!) Let's start calling it "Portable Copy". I don't mind buying a $30 special edition Blu-Ray that gives me options. I do, however, mind paying $15 for the digital copy from iTunes, and I can only use it on my computer or iPod. No standard DVD player. BS. I would love to see Hollywood do what Blu-Ray was designed to do- multiple layers with Blu-Ray, DVD (and CD if they want) that have different formats for all players. HD-DVD did this, so smart. Include the Portable Copy and only charge $20 for a new one, and I'll start buying movies again (Netflix). But that will never happen.

God, I ramble.

DurfDiggler