@tkohrs2002: No it's just when those green blooded, pointy eared know-it-alls show up to tell us what infantile morons we are...

Jrsy is the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude

@tande04: what they are doing is not making any sense to me. Yeah, you make a good point as to why don't they look over their build logs but just why are they looking at outdated tech if they can build a better version now?!?!

WD40

Hmm here on long island we have an unused appollo lunar module at the cradle of aviation museum. I am surprised nasa didnt come and take it (grumman built them here on long island).

Bye the sounds of it they might even remember the museum has it.

majortom1029

@Toastie: wtf. that scares me for somereason. what are u implying

tkohrs2002

Why didn't they just go over to sound stage #5 and check out the Moon landing set, er, uhm I mean, those guys really did go to the Moon. I was just kidding about the whole sound stage thing...

Jrsy is the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude

Don't worry, on April 6th, 2063 you'll all understand why it took so long for NASA to build our next spaceship...

Toastie

What is Elizabeth Smart doing there?

yashichi8bit

I'm amazed as Sean that 49 years ago we had the technology to get to the moon and back several times so succesfully, but what I don't understand is why we seem to have come to a stop in terms of progress with the space program.

Neil Degrasse Tyson talks about this in the folloing video-

+ Watch video

IamNotToddDavis

Wait, I'm confused.

Its an interesting read an all but shouldn't they have that information? Maybe it got lost in an analog to digital conversion or had been refined so much over the years that the original is corupted but still doesn't make much sense to me.

If I make pies I don't keep a part of my original pie around so that I can take it apart and reverse engeneer it. I just take out my old recipe.

tande04

If only they actually went >_> Seriously... you would think the scientists would have left blueprints or something behind >_>...

vgerik1234

@strider_mt2k: I think NASA pretty much coined the phrase, flying by the seat of your pants...

"Hey guys, we've got this big-ass rocket and what we want to do is strap you in the nose of it, launch it into space and see what happens, er see what's up there. You know how those Airforce guys get all the chicks. As Astronauts you'll score even more than those guys. So what do ya say, you in?"

"Sounds ok to me."

Jrsy is the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude

You aren't kidding, Sean!

If you read about the early research into these things you can see they were willing to try all kinds of interesting ideas.

Very few were practical.

strider_mt2k

I think it was an episode of wired science that said a lot of the stuff they used for the space travel was lost because they rushed to build it. They used a lot contract work where they did not get all the documentation for, not everything was understood (crappy documentation?)and a lot of those companies no longer existed after they reached the goal of landing on the moon... so they must reverse engineer a lot of stuff..

awdark

actually the museum has alot of the apollo era stuff. Like a command module,m the lunar module that was going to be used for apollo 18 before it was cancelled.

One of the Patrons here at the huntington public library worked at grumman and was a project manager and was actually in mission control for some of the missions.

IF they are looking at older stuff i am wondering why this stuff is still sitting here.

majortom1029

tande04: NASA has a deal with the Smithsonian where they agree to give all their left over stuff to them as long as the Smithsonian keeps it in good shape.

As to why they don't have that information any more. Many government agencies aren't shy about purging stuff deemed no longer necessary. When the Apollo program was canned wouldn't be surprised if some middle manager decided all the technical details had to be dumped as well. Also consider that it was all made by contractors. If the contract didn't specify the construction blueprints had to be submitted they would not have been.

NASA has tried unsuccessfully to get stuff back from the Smithsonian to actually use for space-flight. There were actually two Sky-Labs built. One went into space and one went to the Smithsonian. After the one in space was de-orbited NASA later tried to get the spare back from the Smithsonian, but were not able to do so. I don't know what the specific reason that was given.

BlowfishAvenger

Well, they're probably just getting some in-depth info. I have to have a hands-on with a gadget to see how it feels, looks, etc. Same with space vehicles (that makes it more important...). I would imagine that it would be easier to understand and build if they've got some past ideas in existance instead of a 3-d model on a screen. I'll ask and report back if I come up with an answer (I love living on the Space Coast!)

alexmg2420

Go to the Cosmosphere in Hutchinson, Kan. They have the Apollo 13 module there, among many other wonderful things. It will blow your mind.

Yes, that's Hutchinson, Kansas.

LoganAdams

@tande04: This is a publicity stunt. Does this make sense now?

jkr's bold comment

@vgerik1234: Seriously. I think back then they didn't include project documentation as much as "lets git er done!"

ripfire

@tkohrs2002:

The governments of Earth went into an uproar with the revelation that an alien ship landed in the United States. It was demanded that the Vulcan crew meet with the New United Nation's Council.

MyPetFly

i would imagine the one they went to go look at in dulles, va actually went to the moon and back and would show real world stress and what not. on top of the fact that it was built by the lowest bidder who probably didn't keep the best records, why else do you think we can put a man on the moon but Cadillac can't build a car where the bumper doesn't fall off?

yungjerry703

@LoganAdams: Was going to mention that myself. Probably one of the best kept secrets in the country, in the middle of Amish country, and they have a SR-71 on display, Apollo 13's capsule, a V-1, Apollo 11's parachutes -- it's an absolutely hilarious and ironic treasure, but definitely a treasure. It's a shame so many people don't know about it.

Recoil

@vgerik1234: Actually, they did not.

There are a lot of diagrams, but very few notes explaining critical (and confusing) pieces of these designs. The triumphs of our early space program were accomplished at a very frenetic pace, and documentation just wasn't a priority. Beating the Russians was the focus.

Unfortunately, most of the engineers who were building this stuff at NASA at the time are no longer physically able to answer any questions about it. So, we go back to Huntsville and start taking apart the rockets, and look at the other tech that got us there. Then we apply new materials, electronics, and other improvements.

macserv

@yungjerry703: Rust. Moon dust is non-corrosive.

shockwaver

@IamNotToddDavis: I bet the obstacle had something to do about taxpayer's money.

ripfire

@shockwaver: its a line from Chris Rock's stand up act a few years ago, not a direct reference to the ceramic heat shields in question. now to quote Jerry Seinfeld "maybe if we didn't go to the moon people wouldn't have anything to complain about"

yungjerry703

@WD40: maybe they never had an old design to begin with, the moon landing was actually fake, they even fooled mythbusters, son of a b*tch!

diehippiedie

@Toastie: Thanks for reminding me about world war 3. :(

bobojuice

I can be proud to say that my grandfather helped work on the Apollo rockets. Maybe they should give him a call.

jlawson

These new engineers unfortunately were never taught the fine art of 'UNROLL THE PAPER, HOLD DOWN THE CORNERS AND LOOK AT THE DRAWINGS'.

Ednonymous

@BlowfishAvenger: That bit about Skylab sounds like an urban legend. What would NASA want with it? The first Skylab orbited empty for a long time after the last mission. It was perfectly usable, but NASA was out of money and equipment to use it. Skylab and the Apollo-Soyuz Test Program used 'left over' Apollo hardware. Once it was gone, they were done.

MegaZone

Nerd 1: What did you get for Christmas this year?

Nerd 2: An Apollo heat shield!

Nerd 1: Cool!

Nerd 2: What did you get?

Nerd 1: The Blu-Ray of "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull"

Nerd 2: Owch! That's worse than coal in your stocking!

Nerd 1: Especially these days, with the price of fossil fuels!

Nerd 2: Good point!

Nerd 1: Ha-ha-ha!

Nerd 2: So, when's President Obama gonna fulfill all his campaign promises?

Nerd 1: Next year, after the holidays... just wait, you'll see... and you'll be amazed at the change!

Nerd 2: If you say so.

(Brought to you by the Committee to Elect Obama)

EricAlder

@tande04: A lot of what was done on Apollo was made up as they went along. And, believe it or not, a lot of things never got documented properly. There was a lot of on-the-fly engineering and trial-and-error, and sometimes when an original design didn't work well they came up with improvements during the build and then it was just done that way from then on - and no one got around to logging all the changes. Now most of the people who worked on it are long retired, or dead, and that knowledge is gone.

Partly because when Apollo ended the attitude was "We'll never need this again, don't bother." So no effort was made to capture that knowledge at the end of the program.

And, in some cases, documentation that did exist has just plain been lost. So the original items are the best source of data.

MegaZone

@majortom1029: Actually, Apollo 18's CSM was used on Apollo 17 - they shuffled the hardware after canceling the missions.

MegaZone

@loganadams..

"among many other wonderful things. It will blow your mind."

like what?

chumleyex

@chumleyex:
like an experimental machine that actually gives a blowjob directly to your brain.

Parapraxis

@MegaZone: I know that NASA asked for it back. Maybe they were just shopping for options and so didn't press the issue, I don't know.

I assumed at the time they were looking at options to put something in orbit quickly.

SkyLab was a beautiful piece of work. You're right that most of it was made from surplus parts. Which is part of what makes it such an impressive job to me.

BlowfishAvenger

@tande04: My master's thesis involved some work on reentry guidance for Orion and I remember my advisor mentioning that the "recipe" for the TPS (thermal protection system) material was proprietary and the company that owned it went under and took the secret to the grave. Nobody really cared until now and unfortunately most of the people involved are dead. I believe they stopped using it too because it was made of some super toxic stuff that would be hard to push past environmental regulations these days.

McTwist

@IamNotToddDavis: Neil Tyson video take two-

+ Watch video

IamNotToddDavis