Its a Windows world, much better deal to cough up another $50 to get an operating system that runs the programs people want to use. If you want to try Linux better to do so from the safety of Windows.

oneclick

@discounteggroll: I switched to Ubuntu about a year ago, and I'm happy with it, but it's not ready for mass-market. Even if these things come pre-configured to do everything a windows computer can do, there's still the problem of Adobe's Flash plugin for Linux being a piece of crap, Microsoft Office documents not rendering properly, commercial web sites telling me my browser and operating system aren't supported, and most software--from games to freeware garbage on download.com--not having Linux versions. How many of those returns do you suppose came from people who don't know or care what an operating system is, but were shocked to learn that they couldn't run some crappy .exe file they downloaded? To them, Linux isn't an alternative OS, it's just broken.

schtum

@discounteggroll: Fish? Linux?

Wow, that reminds me of something I read in the Tao Te Ching,

'Running Linux is like cooking a small fish...' (60)

Windhawk

@ian01nl: I have a similar story with a happier ending - so far.

Asus EEE PC - still using Xandros and happy with it. My problem was with the updates in general - while simplifying the interface, they took all detail out of the updates.

Machine will say "You can update to BIOS xxx.yyy". Period. No description of what this will fix. It's the same for all updates - you take what you get.

As I said, I'm happy but I haven't update the original s/w since I got it. Hey, ASUS, you tell me what you're going to do to Firefox and maybe I'll let you update it.

Jim (The Canuck One)

i have an Acer Aspire One, great machine, easy to use...linpus Linux, worked great until acer decided to update it automatically.....breaking the wifi settings ...first return, a month later exactly the same problem, sent in for repair. The Shop wanted to replace the unit but Acer insisted that it be returned!, even though they readily admitted that the problem was their fault TOALLY. so i miss my netbook for about week because of their idiocy....My first foray into non-Apple hardware is thus a major disappointment. Linpus Lite and the acer front end (also MSI,ASUS et al) make it too difficult to add and remove software...the only reason people like XP is familiarity. A DOG you know is less likely to bite you, haha. Strange that really major companies seem unable to sort out a decent OS alternative to XP, user friendly and attractive. So in short (!) time sell the netbook and see what Apple has instead.

ian01nl

Dear Gizmodo,

Please stop flubbing with the mobile "integration" of gizmodo. I have a freaking iPhone, I don't need the freaking mobile site. Furthermore even if after I automatically get redirected to the stupid and lame mobile site, I click on the "classic" gizmodo (which is a retarded name for it, since it's actually just regular old gizmodo), I get directed to the "mobile" posts of the blogs. Furthermore if I click for the next page of the posts, I get an error, not even directed to the gizmodo mobile second page. UHHHGGG it's tiresome. So much so that while I am sitting on the shitter, I often just go to engadget where I get the full unabridged version of THEIR site.

There I said it, while on the crapper engadget is better than gizmodo! So sue me.

In all honesty, it's just a bit hokey to auto redirect and do all this funky stuff, just let me decide if I want the mobile version and for the love of god remember it!

beekerstudios

People would like it, but it needs to have more universalization. Your average Joe does not want to Sudo-apt get everything he wants. Come on that sucks. Especially on a netbook.

Why it will never catch on for desktops. NO GAMES. Cedega and wine both are annoying and a waste fo time. Why did dos/windows catch on? Because they had the games in the pocket.

Food for thought.

Sticky230

it's like giving a child fish for the first time (or at least calling what they're eating "fish"). Cold feet and fear of the unknown will often make uncertain weary of a new OS. Hell, apple had the whole "switch" campaign aligned for such an occasion

give it time, it's easier than you will initially feel

discounteggroll

Wow Windows Xp is still in strong demand.

takashimiike 7

@discounteggroll: Except the Switch campaign was ironically a failure. After one year, Apple lost marketshare. Hence its discontinuance.

OMG! Ponies!

People don't like change. They like being able to download a program from a website and installing it with a double-click. The ability to be in charge of the what to put on when - even if it means possibly installing malware - is comforting.

OMG! Ponies!

@Sticky230: Linux has its own native games, a lot of which would run on a netbook too.
And apt-get is awesome and fast and all, but you don't _have_ to use it.
gnome-app-install (better known as Add/Remove in Ubuntu) and Synaptic provide graphical interfaces for apt-get that are easier for most people to use.

zmjjmz

The real question is how many linux netbooks do they sell in comparison to Windows? If its four times higher as well then the stats mean something entirely different.

Weet

@OMG! Ponies!: Your well-thought-out view is a departure from most Gizmodo comments. I don't like that!

Metkis

This is total cosmic karmic goodness at its best. Here I am with a minute windfall for working during Hurricane Ike, and I have been eying netbooks for months now, waiting with bated breath to pounce on one. I have compared every one that's not Unicorn Like (Lenovo, Dell, MSI, ECS...I'm looking at you, you trifling bitches)

It came down to the Eee 901 and the Acer Aspire One.... I was gonna give Linux a go , but this pretty much seals it for me, and here's why:

1. Too many damn Linux Distros (Flavors)
why must I have to figure what what distro I have in order to get what I want. Fedora, Ubuntu, Xandros, Linpus, Lindows, Octopussy, Red Hat Condom, Suse Homemaker, and they are not all integrated SEAMLESSLY. I know with Mac (gasp!) or Windows, it may be a different face but its the same guts on the inside and I can pretty much port from one iteration to the next. Linux has more damn distros than MGS has Snake Characters.

2. Support is Sketchy at best due to above.

3. Terminal... not all of us want to learn code in order to compute, upgrade or add software, as computer literate as I am, that is a huge turnoff... give me some WYSIWYG and wizard clones and a NICE README file and we are good.

4. Lack of OS continutity and unity.
If we can get it down to one or 2 main distros with "lite" versions of each for netbooks then I may be a convert. But with so much disunity amoung Linux, how can I choose when I have no idea which flavor truly tastes the best...especially when everyone can argue for their specific flavor.

Help a techno-Monk out and tell me I'm wrong

Cordfucious v 2.0.1

@takashimiike 7: That's true, but I'm not sure I'd trust your opinion on Windows... Thanks to your avatar, I imagine you in a navy-green leotard, yellow cape, red eye-mask, with a Windows chest-piece sewn to it -- running around making flying noises.

(Which makes you my arch nemesis, because I have a silver and black get-up with an Apple chest-piece -- except I don't run: I Segway and make flying noises.)

D.E.P.C.

@D.E.P.C.:

My Segway doesn't make a flying noise :(

kmkl

@takashimiike 7:
how sad

vgart

I have been a linux developer and windows user for over 10 years, and have never used Linux on my laptop for more than a few days, and would never reccommend it to my friends who have no reason to run Linux.

Windows is always going to give you a better consumer experience. Plus all of the best open source software like Firefox, etc runs just great on Windows, but most Windows software does not run or does not run well. Plus yes as others have mentioned Wifi under Linux has always been relatively lousy compared to Mac OS and Windows.

brundlefly76

@JEmlay: Your anger is my happiness.

Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E

I feel vindicated and so not surprised. This is what buried the Cloudbook's reputation. When I took my Cloudbook out of the box, it was an unusable piece of garbage with unreliable WiFi and no 3D support.

I put XP on it and it's a $300 dream machine.

markarian

I saw this myself at Compusa. I was waiting to return something and the lady in front of me was returning an Eee PC so I struck up a short conversation with her about it. She said she was returning it cause it was Linux and it didn't work with her companies database. I told her that they made XP versions and she said that they were $500 and for that price she'd rather buy an actual laptop.

danielsmi

Linux fails. Seriously, WTF can you do with it? Even less then OSX. Same old, same old. The average person only knows to go to best buy and buy software. Do the math.

Some idiot talks them into going linux then as usual REALITY sets in and they no longer want a worthless piece of garbage.

Back to windows. Most of our Mac garaphics artists have Windows at home. Not just because they actualy WANT TO PLAY games on their PC but mostly because Apple has priced them into it.

JEmlay

@zmjjmz:

Just because it has native games doesn't meant they are any good.

Friend: "Hey Donjo lets play CoD4"
Me: "Sorry Bro, I can't, playing some NEXIUZ"

donjo

Am I the only one who sees how good this is?? Where can we look up all those returned linux boxes so we can buy for a discount!!
Example

retail 299.99
Open Item 229.99!! same warranty haha

jncarlos

@budboyy2k:

You crack me up, you really do. If it could actually do what I want without requiring me to research every dam thing. And even then it doesn't run the programs I want it to run, and the ones it does it doesn't well/without constant maintenance.

Have you ever tried Dwarf Fortress? It's like that, now I love the game but it took me hours and hours to figure out how to work it and then for a few days there were still things I wasn't sure about. I love it now but you just can't expect that kind of dedication from the majority of people. Linux requires far more from its user than basic computer literacy, and in a world where half the people are barely literate let alone computer literate that's just too much.

Morberis

@Weet:

The use of the term "rate" suggests it is normalized to units sold. Such as returns per X sold.

I'd believe the stat. I'm fairly tech savvy and still find myself ending up back using windows rather than Hardy Herron. Just more familiar and I know were everything is on XP. I don't really see a big advantage from either in terms of use, but I wouldn't want my mom to try to figure out anything new. I've just gotten her to stop downloading crapware/spyware. Come to think of it, maybe Ubuntu would be the way to go for her. No crap halmark greeting card maker software and no crap HP printer photo managing suites! (I hate you, Dell)

Brookespeed

@OMG! Ponies!:
I thought I saw a commercial not long ago about bring in your Windows system and the Mac "geniuses" will switch it over and teach me for free?

Cordfucious v 2.0.1

This is probably because they people that buy it look at it and say, "Wait a second, this isn't XP!" Instead of trying to learn Linux, which is an easier/better system, they just take it back for what everybody else has. And what they're used to also.

-Brett

budboyy2k

@Weet: The quote is about "return rate" so it doesn't matter how many they sell.

mentho

I got the HP Mini-Note when it first came out, with SuSE Linux on it. It was awful... Just a terrible user experience in general: Features of the computer just plain didn't work (like a WiFi indicator light), it was tough to find software that would work, it was slow... I replaced it with Ubuntu (which took some work) and it is now much better. It's still far more of a hassle to work with than Windows would be, though. I don't end up using the Mini-Note very often.

phoenix96

I can't stress enough that it's not just about soccer mom's buying a netbook and being scared that there's suddenly no C: drive. It's mostly that these computers aren't designed at the hardware level with Linux in mind. For the Cloudbook, for example, there are no stable drivers that support 3D video. Also, the on-board USB webcam is only supported in the very latest, bleeding edge revision of the Linux kernel. The included Wi-Fi indicator light and button aren't fully supported and cause problems in Linux.

With a few exceptions, getting Linux to fully work on any laptop is a major undertaking that even seasoned geeks have trouble with.

Another issue is the fact that the most popular desktop environments, such as KDE and Gnome, are far more resource-hungry and graphically intensive than Windows XP, especially when you try to add frilly cool stuff like Apple Dock knockoffs and Compiz Fusion. Couple that with poor video drivers and and a lower-powered system and you've got yourself an unusable trainwreck of an experience with menus that take 30 seconds to pop up.

Using XFCE or something less hefty would help with this issue a lot, but unfortunately, it doesn't look pretty and isn't as user-friendly as KDE or Gnome.

Linux has its place, but on the nascent Netbook platform, it really performs poorly.

markarian

I just got an EEE PC 901 and the Linux OS is utter crap.
Do not blame Linux for these problems, blame the stupid company who install crap disto's. I mean for god sake linpus and Xandros. I wish these companies would get a clue.

I would rather have XP than one of these disto's and I am 100% anti-M$, I have not bought a MS product for the last ten years.

And just to point out two of the Linux Disto's on these laptops are partners in the Microsoft deal. Now that's fishy.

[en.wikipedia.org]

and by the way ASUS, No I do not want my disk's mounted.
/media/name_of_deviceD:

I mean by all mean's make it easy to use but do you need to brake the OS so it feels more like XP :-)

Rant Over

vosester

I wonder which distro is the norm for the returned laptops? Ubuntu is one of the best Linux distros I have heard about (I like PcLinuxoS too), but the ones with gOS, so I have seen, maybe what turns them off. From what I know, it may be a branch of Ubuntu, but maybe the desktop manager makes it slower, things like that. Yeah, fear of the unknown too.

trikkedaddy

@Brookespeed: Good point about the term rate.

And who doesn't love the crapware Dell ships? :D

Weet

@discounteggroll:
Or maybe its because its not what the average user wants.

roflwaffles

@budboyy2k:
So why does it make more sense for the average user to learn to use a unfamiliar operating system than use what they know? Its like trying to convince the world to speak latin as its much simplifier, even though its case system (1st declencion, etc) is difficult to understand for another language speaker. Windows works, which is why people use it.

roflwaffles

i can only seeing the linux desktops working on netbooks for the geriatric ward types and kids who don't know any better. As the other posters have noted, anybody considered a mild power user will hate linux, everything is a PITA even after 10 years of desktop development teams it still is too much of a pain. Having tried Ubuntu last month it is almost there, but still behind leopard and xp. Linux Mint was nearly perfect, but a few problems with the video drivers caused me to stop using it. I do love the idea of having a instant boot to linux gOS for really quick access to a web browser... then boot to xp for real work.

mrbelvedr

Sometimes...... a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side.

Nothing worthwhile ever comes easy

Sheeple.....

rcorrino

@shamoononon has a hebetudinous dog: teach.

shamoononon has a hebetudinous dog

@Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E: I love beer... and the seldom visual of your cats. I'm only half let down tonight.

shamoononon has a hebetudinous dog

@Cordfucious v 2.0.1: Hello my dear co commenter, nice to see you back.

**IX has and always will be a developers first choice and love, basically because Microsoft is an asshole at times and IX is fun. I honestly don't know why a non developer would use it though. I can only imagine the IBS that would ensue should I have to leach my Mother IX.

shamoononon has a hebetudinous dog

@beekerstudios:
Indeed!

This seems to happen across all gawker sites too (consumerist, lifehacker, gizmodo). Seriously gawker techs, can we fix this BS already?!

Crim Law Geek

@undefined: Hear! Hear!

For a web-site that compares every smart phone to the iPhone it is of the utmost hilarity that it simply does not play nice with the iPhone.

KanSer

@schtum: Good points. However, I would also note:
1) The [official] flash plugin is still relatively new for Linux. It hasn't fully matured yet, but I believe Flash in Linux won't be a problem in the [near] future, especially if the Windows market share continues to decrease.
2) MS Office documents generally render fine in OpenOffice, whether it is in Windows or Linux or whatever. Heck, too many users that I have dealt with had many problems because they used Works or WordPerfect and Word couldn't open their documents. The converters messed up much of the formatting (especially page layout settings)...even going from one MS document format to another, like from Works to Word. OpenOffice does a good, albeit not perfect, job with all those file types.
3) Most web sites are getting much better at detecting the browser capabilities and flaws, rather than basing code on the browser version and OS. Plus, their's always Firefox and such that are as fully capable as their Windows counterparts. As for stuff that is truly "not compatible", like ActiveX enabled sties, there is always java. Java is becoming the de facto standard on web pages.

Anyway, long story short is that it's still a little early for consumers, but I don't believe it'll be a long time before the only major difference between Linux's and Window's usability is primarily due to their different ways of doing things, and not because of software support. Windows isn't going anyway for at least a LONG time, but Mac and Linux are coming to the mainstream as well.

geowrian

@donjo: But these are netbooks we're talking about. I don't think anyone would plan on playing any "big" games as the hardware can't cope with it anyways.

The native linux games are about the only games that the hardware can cope with.

shinchan

My experiences left me less than enthusiastic, although Linux is indeed a great thing at heart.

The best thing for me lately has been this little netbook running WinXP.

Sorry, but every computer in my world is running it.
I know it, it knows me. We have an accord.

I can make it work seamlessly with my life and it makes me happy.

Everyone needs to find that for themselves.

(Wow it does make one wax spiritual, don't it?)

strider_mt2k

@JEmlay:

"Most of our Mac garaphics artists have Windows at home. Not just because they actualy WANT TO PLAY games on their PC but mostly because Apple has priced them into it."

I feel for "your Mac garaphics artists" because they're clearly not getting paid enough if they can't afford Macs.

Dearhaw

i try out a bunch of different stuff on my machine, including various linux distros. hardy heron is the closest thing to being workable so far, the real problem for me is that the thing updates constantly, and there is no real way to quickly find out whether you need the update or not. the interface ain't bad, but when you need to get something done in a hurry, or not having to think about what you are doing, i will always go back to what is familiar to me. good old xp.

godwhacker

It's because linux sucks! People like it, and then they're like 'shit, I can't install itunes'.

AlexLand

@mrbelvedr: Hmmm... I'm a bit more than a "mild power user" and that is why I prefer Linux. At work I must use Windows, and often find that it gets in my way.

I really and truly prefer Linux. As a software developer, it just works well for me.

We all have our preferences, but you can't say that power users prefer Windows in general. Or by implication that if you don't use Windows you're not a power user. (Not that that is what you were implying, but some do.)

Linux is a different platform than Windows. I find it disappointing that so many Linux advocates push it as an alternative to Windows. That's not really the case and it causes people to go into Linux thinking it will work the same. Those are the people who should not switch; if they want Windows, they should stay with Windows.

nobodyzhome

oops disregard that first part...

funkyduck

i may not a

maybe i'm missing something, but i never really understood the linux argument. sure, it doesn't get virus's, but probably for the same reason ugly people don't get stds.

so unless one of the flavors of linux get's a MAJOR cash infusion from a steve jobs/bill gates/jerry seinfeld hating benefactor, the linux platforms have pretty much zero chance of putting even a little dent into the golden armor of brand apple/microsoft. sure, there's always going be the unkempt few who like writing their own driver code, but i don't think the average maverick palin soccer mom is going to go for that.

funkyduck

@ian01nl: I have an Aspire One with XP and MacOS on it. It's wonderful. Other than one horrible moment when I was installed Kalyway's MacOS on it and something in the Darwin booter took out the BIOS (a known problem it turns out and remarkably easy to fix - points to Acer for building a computer with the ability to flash BIOS even when the BIOS is dead), it's been a dream.

Under XP the battery life is almost frighteningly good. Video from the hard drive doesn't seem to burn battery any faster than idling - how they did this is beyond me, normally video halves the battery life.

As for the OS - hey, I get XP, which is my main OS and I get MacOS X 10.5.7 with only three issues at the moment - but it runs almost everything - even Garage Band.

So what's not to love?

TheWerewolf

@Morberis: it's all a matter of how easy to get it to work. People care less if Tivo runs LINUX or Iphone runs OSX or blackberry runs windows mobile or using Firefox instead of Internet Explorer...

If LINUX people started making a Netbook Distro that "just works" and leave all the geekyness out, everything would be alright. Also, Hardware manufacturers know shit about OSes, that's why they always go back to Microsoft.

VakeroRokero

@discounteggroll: You're falling into the 'defense by denial' flaw. Getting a child to eat fish is one thing - the child doesn't have skills to determine what's best suited for him or herself - that's the parent's job. But when you're talking computer users, it's rather demeaning to think of the user this way - and it immediately sets up an "I'm better than you" or at least an "I know more than you do" mindset.

People buy a computer *to do something*. That usually entails the use of a specific application - either one mandated by other people (the office for example, or software most of the person's peers use), or one mandated by function (AutoCAD comes to mind, Photoshop being another). If that application cannot run on your choice of computer, then it's not the right OS.

Sure, they can find an equivalent - but *why*? This is the core of the flaw - from YOUR perspective, 'close is good enough' because you perceive all sorts of additional benefits. To the user, 'close is NOT good enough' because they don't consider those benefits enough to overcome the cost of trying other software.

In fact, that goes for the OS itself. Perhaps Linux is more secure and more reliable - but if there's something about it that makes it harder to use, then it may get passed over simply because the end user doesn't rate security and reliability as high as ease of use (which is indeed the case).

Most people I know (myself included) who try Linux grow tired of dealing with its many quirks or trying to find software that does what I want in a well designed UI and then just switch back to Windows or MacOS.

You can blame the customer or you can fix the product.

TheWerewolf

sad to say, but LINUX is still a OS for geeks and to pose any thread to Xp it would require a change of perspective, kind of what Steve Jobs brought to OSX. Windows XP is also turning into a complicated beast that's why most people can't deal with Vista. I have Vista64 and while I like it, I also like LINUX, and that's proof I'm not in the mayority.

VakeroRokero

@D.E.P.C.: kinda like this...?

emergeoriginal

[emergeclothing.com]

click the link for the pic that was supposed to be in the post just above.

emergeoriginal

@undefined:

Your right, I have a friend who bought the mini Acer 8.9 in. Linux Laptop, he he is quite satisfy with it : more security, no antivirus to buy, everything is pre-installed, longer battery life 3:2h instead of the 2:30h with Windows. But yes the average Joe wants Windows , with the 50$ it will have to pay for it, and let's not forger all the software he will have to buy

uomolinux

Truly, the Linux development people do themselves huge dis-service when it comes to spreading the OS.

Here are several critical flaws:
1. No understanding on how users interact with the interface. It's very blatantly difficult, unless you are a Linux geek.
2. The constant "I'm better than you" attitude and their eagerness to call you stupid. People get tired with those attitudes when they don't know how to do something on the OS.
3. No mainstream software application. Software on Linux sucks and are frequently not compatible with what the Windows / Mac world are doing. When you can't be productive, the free OS is really worthless!!

phantom701

@vosester: I know what you mean about the EEE's Linux. Me, I use Kubuntu.

kanon

@Morberis: Most of the time, a disappointed Linux use-wannabe doesn't read the effing help manual/database/wiki/fourm.
If you had just bought a car, you wouldn't return it, would you? No, you'd RTFM.

kanon

@brundlefly76: My six-year-old Kubuntu 8.04 rig has better WiFi than my mother's 1-year-old Macbook, and that's even with WEP

kanon

@kanon: woops

kanon

@schtum: Are you running the Ubuntu or a Kubuntu? KDE 3.5.x is pretty well rounded off now, and can look and feel a lot like XP or OSX, and while 4.1 isn't quit finished, it still rocks.

kanon

Same thing happens with my N800 which has a fairly full browser and better than mobile 800x480 screen. Maybe they're redirecting everything that's not firefox and IE at 1024*768 to the mobile version.

AliyaGebrony

@beekerstudios:

agreed, this mobile gizmod crap is annoying as hell on my n810.

dschep

I think the cause of this is not Linux, but their shitty choice of Linux-based operating systems. For example, who the fuck uses Xandros outside of an Eee?!

Dell gets it right, so why can't anyone else?

Picklesworth

People return Linux-based netbooks so often, I think, because manufacturers put crappy Linux distros on them.

Whether it's an EEE PC running a watered-down Xandros (which, at full strength, has a terrible package management system) or a Cloudbook running gOS (which looks like an unpolish Mac OS X for kids), people would rather return the damn thing than go through the hell of installing another OS through a USB drive.

I think Ubuntu (or, better yet, Xubuntu) will be the savior of Linux netbooks because it's lightweight, somewhat visually-pleasing, and easy to use without looking like it's made for children. Ubuntu Netbook Remix looks even more promising with it's attractive interface and fast boot times.

In the end, this is a classic case of people turning to the familiar rather than venturing into the unknown.

elgilicious

@elgilicious: I just bought the Linux Aspire One, bumped the RAM up to 1.5GB, & installed the beta for Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex... I spent an hour or so typing in the terminal to get everything set the way it's recommended in the wiki, and I can't believe how good everything is going so far. The only thing that isn't working 100% is the WLAN LED, and the speakers are a little quiet. Given that this is a beta loadout, I'm fairly certain any other little niggles will get cleaned up soon enough.
BTW, Giz serves me up the standard site, not the 'mobile' one; I've seen the mobile site on my N800... Bleh.

AmishJohn

well duh. linux isn't made for n00bs. every time I sit down at a linux box I am afraid to touch anything for fear I nuke the thing. granted that's just inexperience on my part but maybe the people buying PCs with linux pre-loaded are want-to-be switchers that don't know much about it either.

squish123

Perhaps this says more about the quality of Linpus Linux and the lack of information and advertising MSI gives to it than it says about the quality of Linux in general (especially the better distros, like Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS).

WareCadiots

@beekerstudios:

I agree too. It's not as if the mobile version is much good anyway. I'd rather just use the RSS feed on a device which can't show the normal site - there's even plenty of RSS-to-wap type scripts about if you don't have an RSS reader.

sparx104

In the world of science, all progress has been done by improving on the work of others, step by steo, year by year. Unfortunately, by and large this has not happened in the world of software, because of proprietary rights, such that all the code is kept secret. The best minds are locked out of the Windows operating system, since they will never be able to see the code, and never be able to improve it. As a result, Microsoft has added nothing to the world's understanding of computers. On the other hand, the OpenSource world has been making steady progess in the open, with all the world to see and improve the code. The Ubuntu distro for example does not require the user to use any terminal commands. All the software a person needs is free and open source, and to install software, it's as easy as checking off a list and clicking the install button. It's secure, stable, and has tight code, which means it has much better performance than windows on the same machine, with the same hardware.

UndineDownie

Even if the return rate is 4X higher for GNU/Linux it is still a pretty small number or there would be more gripers posting here about how bad XP is. Think of it this way. If there are 1000 million XP users in the world and the return rate for XP is 1% that is 10 million returns of XP. With 1000 million GNU/Linux users, the return rate might be 40 million. The ratio of satisfied customers is still pretty good. TFA quotes the MSI guy saying the Wind is a hit in spite of some returns. Maybe they would have fewer returns if they let customers play with them in the store.

AlvaHamjig

Hi Cordfuscious, do you know what you are writing about? Most hardware with Linux pre-installed does not give the buyer a choice as to what distribution it comes with.
No one who is familiar with Linux would find difficulty with any distribution. Most people have one distribution which they stick with.
Who told you that you need the command line and apt-get? Must certainly be hearsay, they lied to you.
Either the majority of such returnees couldn't think their way out of a wet paper bag and probably would accept Windows crashing as something normal.

siddly

1. Xp is out of its support-cycle, enjoy your worms malware and other gunk. 2. Vista is resource-hungry mofo that even Bill Gates doesn't want to be connected with, suck it down MS-people who want to stay safe as pr. 1. 3. MacOSX costs an arm and a leg because you have to pay for the hardware that comes with it, cough up and pretend you made a good deal in order to salvage what's left of your self-worth after being economically raped. In the meanwhile I'm sitting on my eee 901 with Ubuntu Hardy Heron on it, running AWN (which makes it look kind of OSX'y, Compiz-fusion (which kicks Vistas sorry graphicl ass), all the while knowing I'm safe from vira, malware and other gunk which infects the other pestilential POS-OS'es. All fluidly on a machine that is drastically below spec were it to run either MacOSX or Vista. I'm a bachelor in philosophy, not an IT-nerd. The Whiners here are nothing but lazy bastards who have a remote to the frontdoor so that the pizza-delivery-guy can put the pizza in front of them on the TV-table, already cut and halfway digested, BECAUSE IT'D BE TOO MUCH DARN TROUBLE IF YOU'D HAD TO LEARN SOMETHING NEW NOW WOULDN'T IT?

BrunellaNanobots

these are pc that are intended to do specific things, and they do it much better in GNU/Linux than with Windows. I've played with acer aspire one, and is a nice nice experience, and so is asus 90x. How can people use a standard XP interface to use 4-5 programs is beyond my understanding, nor I can imagin how good it works with antivirus continuosly working in background. And when I needed to do something "geek", I was able to do because is still "standard GNU/Linux bash interface". So if you are NOT a geek, they work great If you ARE works great also 4 times return means nothing, would love to know how many happily run GNU/Linux.

AlbernBassus

The first thing msi should do is add a better linux distro out of the box, something updated for example... Six month in the OSS world are like 2years in the private software. So please, just copy Dell for example :)

VictoriaHaeden

What are you talking about. I have put Ubuntu Linux on several laptops and have had very few problems. Trying to use compiz on a netbook would be just stupid. They are not made to run 3d graphics. So of course it would run slow. The same would be true if you tried to run 3d applications under Windows XP. I also agree with others. If you are happy with Windows stay with windows. If you don't mind having to pay for antivirus software every year, and don't mind all the malware and spyware, please stay with Windows.

AlfredFantello

Wow MSI is a really stupid company, I wouldn't buy any products from this company in the future. 1. MSI wind was only shipped on July 28th with shitloads of preorders. So this would be two months of return data, hardly impressive 2. The MSI Wind sucks because they put a crappy 3 cell battery in most, so it get like less than 2 hours of use at best. 3. People who order Linux, are mostly users who want Linux(so computer savvy) or are going to install their own XP(so computer savvy), these people don't like getting shafted with a crap netbook with like an hour and half battery, so they return it. no real mystery here. 4. People who order XP are much more likely to not be computer savvy, so less likely to know the MSI wind battery blows, also it's possible MSI is putting four or more cell batteries in the more expensive versions of their netbooks, which also have XP. 5. MSI wants to look for scapegoats for it's horrible returns, mostly do to it's horrible crappy 3 cell battery, so blames convenient scapegoat, linux.

ChandlerSkital?

1. Most of those people went for cheaper price, salesman told them it surfs web etc, took it home and wow, this is different. 2. If they put a decent distro like Ubuntu on there would have better. 3. It was only a half-asssed effort putting Linux on there. Clearly they were not serious about Linux, maybe just to offer a cheap entry point. Microsoft is winner here again. Companies are able to compete with Microsoft but gutless PC manufacturers don't want to. Microsoft incentives are worth too much for them. So us consumers are stuck with a monopoly.

MerlePeitho

Not surprising given that the average Joe has never used anything but Windows and would be intimidated by Linux. If these companies were smart, they'd collaborate and [1] standardize on an Atom-optimized distro (Ubuntu-remix for the eee works well), [2] create an easy to follow friendly tutorial (that would be installed on all these Netbooks such that it greets the new users when they turn them on), and [3] provide phone and online tech support. That'd make Linux Netbooks more appealing to novice users and make it easier for these companies to sort out various Linux quirks.

ArcherSnipe

mrbelvedr - With all due respect, you obviously have a very limited and somewhat naive definition of what a "power user" is. The power you have over a linux system is absolutely unparalleled. You can't do most of the things you can do in Linux in Windows, and Macs do their damndest to hide or restrict your ability to do most of them on their systems. Linux is also a superior operating system in just about every way for anybody evaluating things on their merits, and who know what "linux" actually is. (A quick hint: If you're evaluating anything involving a GUI--you're not talking about linux.) But here's the rub: Linux is not Windows. If people expect it to work like Windows, they're going to be sorely disappointed. If they expect their Windows applications to work in linux, they will usually be disappointed (though I am playing WOW with Wine, all video settings on max and have a great framerate as we speak). Linux tends to get an unfair shot because it's compared to Windows as if Windows is the ultimate solution and they want to know how close linux comes. They're different, with their own strengths and weaknesses. Linux has its issues. If you're doing anything much beyond web browsing and e-mail, you have to be prepared to sink some time into getting things working, if they can be made to work at all. If that isn't for you, that's fine; use Windows or a Mac. Hardware support in linux is impressive given the fact that most hardware companies won't even so much as help linux developers make their hardware work by providing things like functional documents, but it still means a lot of things won't work, especially if it's the latest and greatest in its class. If that's not for you, that's fine too. Bottom line: Linux is not Windows, and it is not for everybody. That doesn't make it inherently worse than any other choice--I've used it as my primary operating system for years and years and I push all of my systems to the limit. Would I recommend it to most of my friends or family? Nope. Should it be installed on these machines by default? Probably not. Does that make it only for geriatrics and kids who don't know any better (whatever the hell that means)? No. Does it mean it can't do "real work?" Well if it does, I have a stern talking-to coming from my employer. Your opinion is your opinion. Let's keep the hyperbole out.

MacnairPaddock

I work at a computer store that sells the Eee and other linux notebooks. The #1 reason that they are returned is not the fact that linux is harder to use than windows, or even that they bought it by accident, but because they try to install the Microsoft Office that they paid good money for onto it, or any other windows software that is within their comfort zone and it doesn't work. end of story. They go as far as trying to install their favorite programs and it stops there. I am a linux poweruser and its on everything except what I game on (for less obvious reasons) and it does everything i need except run games ( without pulling my hair out).

ReginaFennec

After getting an Acer Aspire One (110), I tried OSX on it.
Not a chance to do that again. It was slow, completely unresponsive at times, but it did turn out to be a good bit of exercise of hackinosh'ing.

I've since installed Hardy on it, and it's a dream. Works flawlessly, there's plenty of really economic software to run on it (where memory and battery are concerned) and it's quick and crisp. No complaints from me.

On the other hand, I haven't really used Windows for almost 10 years now, so I suppose I can't say I have much of a comparison. I just know that there's very little that would make me go back to Microsoft software.

Hvedhrungr

@nobodyzhome: "At work I must use Windows, and often find that it gets in my way."

Probably best describes Windows and Microsoft's Design Philosophy.

Linux has great features, but due to the lack of support from IHV's, it can be a nuisance to use.

AlanR

@kanon: I've used linux since Redhat 4 (yeah I'm a noob), and even with the inroads ubuntu has made, linux still has a way to go for windows ease of use.

Which is why I prefer OS X now. Ease of use, plus unix underneath.

AlanR

honestly... its because WINDOWS PUNDITS RULE THE FUCKING WORLD AND THATS WHY LINUX GETS SLAMMED... PEOPLE GO FOR "WHAT THEY ARE USED TO" INSTEAD OF STABILITY SECURITY AND FASTER OPERATION..

TO ALL YOU WINDOWS LOVERS OUT THERE

F*** YOU!

alin0steglinski

Get a Mac! Problem Solved! DUH!

Faslane66

It's not just the unfamiliar user interface, it's also the unfamiliar applications that turns off newbs. I like Linux, and would convert if my most critical application (Adobe Lightroom) ran native on Linux. WINE won't do Lightroom properly, and a VM with XP or Vista VM defeats the purpose of Linux; you still need a MSFT license. Lightroom is not perfect, but the Linux apps for integrated RAW image management just don't come close to Lightroom

dnheller

linux netbooks exist for the smarter users aka ppl that know how to use linux or know how to install windows themselves... most average dumbass pc users dont even understand the concept of an operating system since they have often been raised on a single line of os (windows).

any strict windows using dumbass that i know whos sat down infront of a mac or linux machine dose not seem to grasp the concept of not using internet explorer, wmp, windows live messenger or office and using something elce.

its kinda sad really...

urbanturban666

that is my point nobodyzhome. you are not a mild power user. you are a super power user if you are a developer... you know a million more things that the average person does. So you can figure out things like dependecies, libraries, etc that the average person just cannot wrap their heads around.

dont get me wrong, i would prefer linux over windows any day of the week for a server, but not a desktop. i run osx for my desktop nowadays...

mrbelvedr

"1. Too many damn Linux Distros (Flavors)" Linux is not the operating system such as Windows XP. Linus is the operating system's core. It is confusing to talk about distro because the distro is practically the same as the operating system. If you buy, for example, Suse Enterprise Desktop, it's well integrated with Suse Enterprise Server. "2. Support is Sketchy at best due to above." It depends on the operating system. "3. Terminal... not all of us want to learn code in order to compute, upgrade or add software, as computer literate as I am, that is a huge turnoff..." You don't need terminal in a modern desktop operating system. "give me some WYSIWYG and wizard clones and a NICE README file and we are good." Often, the Linux-based operating systems provide an easier way to do the job.

RheaDolon

@AlfredFantello: I have ubuntu installed on my Dell Mini 9 and Compiz works just fine. as does everything else. I ordered the XP version because it made more sense, sure the ubuntu version was 100 dollars cheaper, but it would have cost more than that to upgrade it to 1GB of ram and 16GB SSD. at least Dell isn't using a crap Distro for its linux installed netbooks. I just wish they would include the ubuntu as well as a choice for the end user to install on the higher models.

Kellsarah

As many have stated, the problem is the fact that most PC manufacturers are installing these distros that aren't very widely supported by a community as Ubuntu, Suse, or the like are. As far as the things I do on my system everyday, Internet, Email, occasional word processing or spreadsheets Ubuntu works great for me. You don't have to know much in the way of terminal command line to install software or additional packages in Ubuntu. There are two programs that work great for nOObs, There is Add/Remove in the applications menu for software and games, and there is the Synaptic Package manager in the System menu for individual packages. The nice thing about linux is if you want a new game you just search for it in Add/Remove select and click install it is that easy, it is free. If you do run into something that cannot be done by means of these two programs all you have to do is a quick google search on the issue you are having, chances are somebody in the Ubuntu community has already run across the same issue and there is a step by step tutorial on how to fix the issues.

Kellsarah

I think it would be better if they put ubuntu on them. Not because any kind of ubuntu fanboy but because it is extremely easy and it's focus is on being a reliable intro distribution. If someone desires a different distro for their netbook they pretty much already have the know how to google for a tutorial to put it on there.
I wonder how many of the problems people are having aren't with linux itself but with the implementation of it.

almostdvs

@emergeoriginal: That was disgusting.

Zlevee

I think almost everyone who speaks sh!t don´t realize that the majority of hardware issues are due to hardware makers and their lack of drivers for linux. They refuse to make any driver for linux, so the guys that provide your linux os have to do reverse engineering to make a crappy broadcom wifi card work. Last time i checked our "friends" at microsoft only where buisy making a grea...., mmmmm not so great system like vista. And look how cool is it for Vista when it has no drivers for your hardware. Every windows user on the planet switches back to XP (not to mention the resource hunger vista has)

Eimor

@jncarlos:

my thoughts exactly. in the end, i win!!

SleepingMartyr

@TheWerewolf: It's a netbook--its size already reduces functionality. While your comments are fairly accurate, I don't think those applications that are normally used on a netbook (email, web browser, chat) are different enough in functionality to be the only issue here. Linux's email client is so similar to outlook that it is unlikely to be that big of a change. Same goes for Firefox and Pidgin.

I've used Linux at home 98% of the time for over 6 years. The 2% is having to run Adobe Forms to get my current job (only works in Windows) and my recent purchase of Spore. I certainly do not expect to play Spore, or any similar game, on a netbook with a cheap graphics chip. Adobe Forms yes, but that's Adobe being stubborn and not Linux's failure to work. I do understand how that might influence someone who just wants it to work and doesn't care that Adobe only supports Windows fully.

More importantly, and not really discussed above, is that a lot of users do not return them. There is also no discussion on the relative difference between XP and Linux returns. I think the number that are not returned is really a "win" for linux on the desktop in the long run. (I define "win" as a double-digit market share.)

Again, I agree with your general comments regarding users wanting a tool that works as expected without any politics or extra effort to learn it.

shawn_dude

@Sticky230: Ubuntu has a very simple "add software" feature that shields the user from the basic apt-get interface. It is the easiest software download/install application I have used on any of the three major desktop OSs.

There are issues with Linux, but the old days of RPMs and Apt-gets and dependency errors are pretty much gone. The average user will never see those issues again; only us nerds that have to run the alpha version of bleeding edge tech.

shawn_dude

@TheWerewolf: So how do you propose we "fix" the problem of Linux not being able to run Windows apps? That problem kinda sorta goes hand in hand with not being Windows, you know. I love the WINE team and they do an admirable job, but replicating a closed, ever-changing API is kind of a Sissyphean effort.

Your other point falls flat -- Linux (well, Ubuntu and Kubuntu at least, I have no experience with any other distros) isn't harder to use than Windows, unless you already know how to use Windows and are trying to do things the same way you do them on Windows. Many things are easier -- just different. Take installing software for one; the repository system is an incredible advance, and one that I wish had a place in the Windows world.

If there is one thing that always amazes me, it's this: Whenever somebody has a Windows problem, they always think it's their fault. Whenever somebody has a Mac problem, they always think it's their fault. Whenever somebody has a Linux problem, they immediately rant and rave about how "Linux isn't ready for the desktop."

Linux has its own quirks and flaws, true, but so does every OS. With the exception of the infrastructure and ecosystem, Linux is as "ready for the desktop" as Windows, whatever that even means. The only question is, when will the ecosystem be ready -- and that day gets closer with every eee and Wind sold.

HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak

It's important to note what MSI said about the reasoning. "It's not what they're used to" so they return it. It sounds like MSI has a really issue in how they brand their netbooks. I'm making a purchase of competiting netbooks, on Windows and one Linux, and my expectations are pretty clear. MSI's statement doesn't speak to Linux, it speaks to customer expectations.

ToniaDiores

The average user does not even have to figure out dependencies, libraries, etc. - that is what we have packet managers for. No similiar effect to the "DLL hell" exists in regular situations of regular users under linux today. Installing application for Linux is most of the time easyer than it is for Windows as you dont have to worry about searching through the internet nor about differences in software installers. Those are problems common for windows but only rarely appear under linux.

SurupaDisco

...then again with linux I'm not afraid to let people use my computer as with the guest-account login they just can't nuke anything else than the process they are running. Much better than with Windows where I had to explicitly tell them not to touch this, those and these and repeat it all 3 times to make it sure they understood... and yet still have them mess up something ;) Try it, don't be afraid, just don't run 'rm -rf /' as root, ok?

SurupaDisco

1. False. 2. Ignore the elitist-crowd and ask help from OSS-crowd instead. I have noticed a huge amount of "we are better than you" crap right here from *regular* windows users. 3. False.

SurupaDisco

You say: "Most people I know (myself included) who try Linux grow tired of dealing with its many quirks or trying to find software that does what I want in a well designed UI and then just switch back to Windows or MacOS." I say: but you never get a well designed UI with windows - the situation is only slightly better with MacOS. Usability simply does not equal low learning curve, that would be ill logic. And easy learning curve is really what these w-users are after, not high usability, am I incorrect?

SurupaDisco

It meakes sense just like it makes sense to learn riding a car with manual steering - sure, you can ride through your life with automatic, and while at it why not just stick with bicycle & training wheels?

SurupaDisco

I do with Linux propably more each day than you ever do with your Windows... 1st computer runs as remote desktop server, ssh server, web server and locally as a file server... 2nd runs my games including games for numerous systems like native linux, windows, dos, c-64, a500, nes, snes, n64, ps1, etc. Also shows videos from television, harddisk, cd's, dvd's, not to mention music collection... not to mention my music system, Linux takes care of everything media related on my appartment better than I could ever get windows to handle it. I'm also free-time flash-hobbyist, a web designer and a professional programmer (currently php&mysql), so dont tell me that you cant do anything with linux - I have done everything that I have to and topping it, everything I *want* to without Windows since 2002. ...you just dont know anything about linux ;) Good day.

SurupaDisco

Is that an ability? Most (not all) software on linux does not have an "installer" that you run because it is NOT an ability when compared to beeing able to install the same software without the need to search for website, search for download link, save installer separately on desktop and only after that, run it. Beeing able to select software from list and click "install" - now that's an ability. It's not the comfort of "beeing able to" that keeps people within windows, it's the comfort of never having to learn anything, the comfort of not needing to be afraid, the comfort of womb forever.

SurupaDisco

I have used computers since dos 2.11 and do not even run Windows anymore, because it is such a PITA to set up the way I want it. Every time they came out with an upgrade it broke the old methods of doing anything, due to obseleting commands and changing the way things were done. Rebooting every time you install a program or update sucks, most anti-virus programs use too many resources and many of the programs are user-unfriendly. I use linux because the commands never change and I can tinker with things until it works exactly the way I want it to. I doubt that I will ever go back to Windows and I certainly won't buy a Windows computer unless it is a used one that I can install linux on.

PrimaZegan

Just thought i'd give you some input (I've used linux for almost 2 years now) 1. There are alot of distros....but as every linux user always argues "its about choice!" most distros are geared towards something special, like ubuntu eee which is specifically for eee's. Linux is used on alot of different hardware, having just "a few" distros would be way to hard to maintain (many different hardware platforms....etc) 2. Support is far from "sketchy" because the people who say, choose to use fedora will be dedicated to making fedora work. 3. If you havn't used Linux before, well then let me tell you, you can use Ubuntu and never once touch the terminal....seriously, most modern distros are all GUI 4. Lack of OS continutity and unity. Well... the distros are "different" but installing programs work for all distros... You can have any linux program on any distro, Distros are just how its packaged together (in a nutshell)

ViljoDawgin