Wow.. the EU sounds like it's got it's stuff together.. A nice change from the US and Ted "The Tubes" Stevens.

GiantEnemyCrab

@smartboydan hates college: thank you mister obvious

thefutureisnow

@Akiyia: no the battery always died on me

ZetaCrossfire

@FIRST!!!: Exception. Acception means something completely different.

smartboydan hates college

@ZetaCrossfire: I've dropped mine 4 stories and it's been hit by a car and it still works.

i guess I'm lucky?

Akiyia

Considering most people will send their iPods to replace the battery if they have to, Apple will dispose of the battery themselves in a proper way. Chances are they'll get an acception.

FIRST!!!

Funny that if it wasn't for the iPhone or the iPod line, I don't think such problem would even be an issue, or at least newsworthy. Go Apple!

Alex7575

ok, that sounds great. And, while we are at it, can we poleeez make USB mandatory as well, like the Chinese? BTW: Does te Chinese iPod have USB (there is still hope...)?

yogibimbi

Rotten apple... went though 8 ipods within a 6 month period. its about time someone told them to get there shit together

ZetaCrossfire

@thefutureisnow:

Clearly it wasn't so obvious to the original commenter.

NeoAkira

@ZetaCrossfire:

You do realize that you CAN replace the battery right?

NeoAkira

@takashimiike 7: *Does it again to hope Zune gets the same treatment*

takashimiike 7

*Crosses fingaz*

takashimiike 7

I see steve laughing at them.

chorx

@FIRST!!!:

Or they just it in landfill in China or other country

k2001

I see this about as likely to happen as iTunes ditching DRM in France. Steve Jobs may as well be declared above the law, because there's no way some braindead law like this could ever pass.

However, in the slim chance Apple actually complies and grudgingly ruins the iPod's amazing design, I have but one thing to say: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

DisposableInterloper

@NeoAkira: actually no, doesent matter everthing i touch thats apples dies. had 2 mac books both faulty had a mac computer again faulty got it repaired and it died on me a week later. me and apple do not agree

ZetaCrossfire

Just make the back of the case pop off more easily (disc drive paperclip manual ejector style?) and have the battery right there to disconnect (soldered on battery? Replace it with a zero-force connector). Doesn't sound too hard to me. Hell, put in a service panel between the user-removable battery and the rest of the entrails if you want to make it less intimidating.

Ethan Allison

Ditto for my iPhone 3G. Apple really did a nice job there.

DisposableInterloper

@newtype2011:
Right, so you're saying that I'd go out and waste space in my bag for clunky extra batteries. Removable or not, I never have more than whatever batteries are already in my electronics.

Besides, my the 4th gen iPod nano's battery is enough to last me through the whole airport process, a 20-hour flight, and leave me with a good few hours to spare. In day-to-day use, it's practically infinite. Just pull it out of my bag, dock it, sync it, and forget it until I need it. A removable battery would be utterly worthless.

DisposableInterloper

@ZetaCrossfire:
Do you not understand how to care for batteries? It's not Apple's fault that you ruined your iPods.

DisposableInterloper

@DisposableInterloper:

What they would lose in lost sentiment from you they would make up when you buy 3 spare batteries from them for your new ipod. You'll comply.

newtype2011

@yogibimbi:
Y'know, there's a whole lot more you can do with a dock connector than a dinky little USB port.

And no, no iPod model since the introduction of the dock connector has had a USB port, save perhaps the first iPod shuffle, which was basically a souped-up thumb drive.

DisposableInterloper

You know, a replaceable battery would not ruin the iPod's rather amazing design. Might add an extra few centimeters to have the back removable with a sewing needle, but it would be otherwise slim and compact, like before. The non-replaceable battery is what detracted me from the iPod to begin with. I really hope this does go through without Apple having any kind of exemption whatsoever because then I might consider buying one. So instead of waiting on Apple to get their shit straight, I can buy the battery and replace the damn thing myself.

MyraJalope

@ZetaCrossfire: Maybe you outta consider that YOU are the problem... only saying, I've had the same PowerBook G4 for over 4 years and and iPod for about the same time. Both still work perfectly.

dambo29

So instead of a company taking responsibility for disposing of its trash, the EU wants customers to do it properly. Dunno if that is wise, but then they are not the US, so...

cylonite

@DisposableInterloper: no you can't do anything more.

jkr's bold comment

I really hope this goes through.
I do wonder though if it happen, what kind of hit the design would take.

khristopher

@ZetaCrossfire: 1 Mac Pro, a 15" Powerbook, 2 iPods and an iPhone, all works perfectly. Please don't come near me

soopafly

@FIRST!!!: I think that actually that rule wouldn't apply if you practically destroy your iPod... For example you drop it in the street and a car runs it over, so you do what? Send it to apple to try to replace it? Hell no! That wouldn't work even if they were so good that ponies and rainbows filled their offices. You throw it away, and you probably would want to take the battery away and dump it in the proper place for that (if you care for the thing that everyone takes for granted and has been under your legs for years - Earth), wouldn't you?

DaSmith

seriously, those europeans regulate freaking EVERYTHING.
"you must provide a user replaceable battery."
"you must make vista more competitive"
"you must lower the cost of incoming text messages"

drewdoog

As a proverb in my country says: "The one that pays for the dinner, orders the music"

DaSmith

@drewdog: I see, you lives somewhere other than a country that is part of the EU and you is envious... Poor baby, go hug your mommy and complain about the fact that you don't have a nice set of people in a big parliament to look after you, the regular person that is part of the consumer mass. Loser! Big corporations have been treating people like s**t for years now! I for one am happy that the EU stands behind its goals and makes a change! And it is the right thing to do, cause if it weren't for us - the buyers - big companies like Apple, Microsoft or some big cell-phone operator would have died years ago. And we, consumers, do deserve their respect and admiration, not the other way around. We should be in charge, and that's what this is all about!

DaSmith

FOR GREAT JUSTICE.

Seriously though, it's pretty much sickening how apple designs iPods to explode after a year or two to force people to buy new ones. Good for the EU.

squish123

Shouldn't that be "dis-integrate"? 8*)

Nothing in the rules says the device has to work after the battery is removed. We have (for instance) rechargable toothbrushes that are essentially destroyed in the process of removing the battery.

While I think it would be nice as a user to be able to change the battery, I understand that:

1) It changes the industrial design of the product. _NO_ change is insignificant.

2) It opens them up to unauthorized batteries, fires, lawsuits, and bad press.

So (if I owned an iPhone) I have to send it back with a few bucks to get a new battery. Big deal.

wpns

@DisposableInterloper: What's that smell? Oh, some fanboy queefed in the comments.

soggy_cheerio

I agree man, what are you doing to your electronics?
I have quite a few Apple products that have never crapped out on me. Except for the one iPod i happened to have sit on. :-b That was user error. lolz

OprahBabb

@DisposableInterloper: You are delusional, if you think that the motivation behind the proprietary dock connector is anything but to separate you from more of your money. It's also the motivation behind not having a user replaceable battery, and not allowing OSX to be run on non-Apple branded PCs. It basically amounts to DRM on the hardware level. HRM, anyone?

Now, this is all good for business, bad for the consumer.

Sure. We could make this device use a standard connector, but then we couldn't sell you something for $20 that you could otherwise get for $5 from someone else.

Sure. You could purchase another battery, but then we couldn't force you to have us replace it.

Sure. You could run this operating system on any PC, but then we couldn't overcharge you for the hardware.

Sure. We could use recognized and standardized protocols for managing remote storage volumes, but then we couldn't force you to use iTunes to manage your music.

Apple and Sony are amongst the most egregious of the offenders. Memorystick anyone?

soggy_cheerio

and i would SOOOOO import me a ipod with a separable battery

segamanxero

@drewdoog: If you wanna make things up to look cool, why don't you let off some fireworks to celebrate not living here.

Oh... wait.

Onouris

@drewdoog:

That cause we know better than to trust corporate greed, with our past, present and or future.

MadCrazy

This would be pretty good news, but it also means all the other manufacturers are going to have to take the same path, some Zen's, Sansa's and Zune's have the same non-removable battery designs...

Sam_Zebian

@soggy_cheerio:
Nah, doesn't quite smell like fanboy. It's actually got the rather bitter characteristic of a Zune & Zen flambé.

DisposableInterloper

good rule i hope they also make a rule so you can replace the harddrive from the ipod by yourself
then you won't need to send the ipod to apple and gets a nice emtpy ipod back

TBM-Fan

@ZetaCrossfire: Are you eating them?

From a guy who switched platforms after a couple of bum Apple products, let me give you a piece of advice.

If Kool-Aid upsets your stomach, the solution is not to drink even more Kool-Aid in an effort to push the old Kool-Aid out of your system. The solution is to stop drinking Kool-Aid entirely.

OMG! Ponies!

@drewdoog: You forgot about, "we're going to tax the air you breath"
"we're putting up cameras every where including up your butt, "for your protection""
"you can't own pointy knives cause they might be used to hurt someone"
"free health care for every one! what, you're having a heart attack? please stand in line over there"

Barry99705

Oh puhlease. Once again the EU thinks they know what the customer wants. The reason for comparably low iPod sales in Europe isn't the non-removable battery, it's the high price (80US-$ more for an iPod classic than in the U.S.).

If the consumer wants PMPs with removable batteries so bad, why is it that the market share for iPods in the U.S. is above 70 percent?

hanswurst0815

@MyraJalope: I think you meant millimeters, cause a few centimeters is like an inch! Well almost.... Apple will just say "screw you" and stop selling in Europe.

Barry99705

I have had one iPod need a battery replacement in the lifecycle of use. It was my Wife's, and she barely used it and it sat on the charger all the time.

i bought a kit from some company, and it took me maybe a minute to remove the battery and the iPod Mini is now back to lasting more than 5 m on a charge.

Didn't take much effort on my part. Don't know what you all are on about other than you like to bitch about apple.

trekkie

Somehow I don't see Apple bowing to them on this one..

Besides they should have a clearer definition for "readily removed" cuz I'm certain I can remove any ipod/iphone battery without too much effort. I make no guarantees that the device will still operate but the battery will be out...

Jrsy is the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude

I'm glad if the EU does this. Apple builds obsolescence into their devices by sealing the battery in, knowing people will throw away an otherwise functional iPod just because the battery is dead. They also make sure their battery replacement program is expensive with all sorts of clauses to put people off for the same reason.

Every phone in existence (except Apple's) manages to provide a removable cover. There is no reason at all for Apple not to do the same. Sealed in batteries suck.

It would be better yet if the EU impress upon the phone handheld and laptop industry to produce some battery standards, including a common charger interface for different classes of objects. There should be no reason that any phone or handheld couldn't be charged from a USB cable these days.

DrXym

@yogibimbi: Is there any real reason why people are still complaining about the USB port? Maybe it would've been a huge issue if it was just released recently, but after 7 years and having third party cables (which are cheap and still work) flooding the market, I don't see the issue anymore.

Can anyone tell me if mini-USB can actually be used to display video out? With the analog hole closed up on iPods, what other options would there be?

Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E

@ZetaCrossfire: Um, that many in a six month span? You're either extremely unlucky, or are abusing them somehow. If you're killing the batteries that fast, maybe you're doing something to them that would've negatively affected any player you purchased. No product's perfect, but to have that many go kaput so quickly suggests user error.

Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E

@GiantEnemyCrab: So, how many happy-meal watches have their lithium batteries removed before they make it to the landfill? Who removes the battery from their keychain flashlight before it goes in the trash? From a logistics standpoint, it normally costs 25-40% of a manufacturing cost to make it user serviceable. How many laser-pointers, toy ray-guns, and other non-durable goods can we think of which will be affected by this legislation?

On a positive note, it will void the warranty on my 2008 Prius if I change / alter the drive batteries in it; however, Toyota will take it at end of life free of charge to recover the batteries and dispose of them. If Apple offers the same service, I have no problem with that.

pcyoung

@Barry99705: Yay Sterotyping!
I should point out that it's in the UK that we are seeing a large amount of those cameras... and in many European countries you can own or even carry guns. If you live in the USA, I wouldn't brag about your healthcare system...
Unless, you were just being facetious ;) In that case my humor filter needs its morning reset.

comp_wiz101

ZetaCrossfire:
Rotten apple... went though 8 ipods within a 6 month period. its about time someone told them to get there shit together

Wow. You are an amazing consumer. If I bought a piece of electronics and it failed once, I would take it back for a replacement. If it failed twice, I would ask for my money back. Period. 8 devices in 6 months? You are either using them as a bean bag or they are shite.

And please tell me you didn't BUY 8 of them in 6 months!

The_Bronze

@soggy_cheerio: lol! sony can take those memory sticks and stick em in there ass sideways...

urbanturban666

@Sam_Zebian: I don't think it'd be too hard for a design like the Zune to make the battery replaceable. All they'd have to do is make a mechanism to release the whole rear cover and expose the battery. It may add a millimeter or so to the design, but it can be easily feasible.

Darkest Daze

@DisposableInterloper: Seriously, every comment I've seen from you so far today involves your mouth and Apple's genitals. Can you turn it down just a little bit?

Darkest Daze

One more reason to hate the EU. Who cares? I don't personally know anyone who's had the same iPod long enough to have a battery die and get a replacement.

DaneB

@trendspotter: Reconditioned iPods should not have that high a fail rate either. They're generally no more susceptible to failure than brand new units, but they simply can't charge more for them since they were already used and sold prior to reconditioning.

The refurb lot is a great place to buy the computers from also, because of the discount. You just don't get the fancy box, but that's fine with me.

Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E

@Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E: or are they Refurbs? I never trust those...

trendspotter

to expand "mechanical means" I think using hand tools was considered an acceptable means... I briefly remember meeting minutes between EUCOMED and EU reps describing hand tools as acceptable... but that was a while ago so I maybe wrong...

dorkytom

This is nothing new....

EU Directive 2006/66/EC (Battery and Accumulators Directive, passed back in 2006) went into effect Sept 26, 2008 (certain provisions go into effect later).

"This Member States shall ensure that manufacturers design appli-ances in such a way that waste batteries and accumulators can be readily removed." - 2006/66/EC

Many manufacturers and industrial groups argue that removable by mechanical means is acceptable... (I think the EU has accepted this as well)

dorkytom

@khristopher:
Then every other MP3 player company will have to do the same. Including the KILLER ZUNE! lol Can't imagine making Fugly even Fuglier.!

vgart

@cylonite:

Good point

vgart

@takashimiike 7:

AAHAHAHAAAAA

vgart

If you've ever opened up a 1st thru 5th gen ipod you know what I mean by them being designed to s'plode. There's just nothing to them. They could do a much better job of providing insulation and shock absorption to the little disk drive and screen. I can't say I've taken apart any of the newer ones though.

squish123

@wpns: Geez, you could say the same thing about a flashlight:

1) It changes the industrial design of the product.

2) It opens up the flashlight manufacturer to unauthorized batteries.

So, would you have a problem if all flashlights were sold "sealed," and you had to send them back to the manufacturer to replace the batteries?

WeedMonkey

Making electronics like the iPod disposable is really bad for the environment. Use and dispose, use and dispose, it's one of the behaviors that is going to have to change. The current economic meltdown is probably going to change a lot of behavior in the short term, but once money is available again people will most likely go back to wasteful behavior again.

bregalad

It would seem to me that making batteries removable make it a little too easy for old batteries to be thrown in the trash by users.

What would make sense to me is to make manufacturers responsible for battery replacement and recycling of both batteries and devices.

Kind of like a bottle deposit.

jwdav

Maybe this will go through. Some people that have iPods don't always have a computer nearby, or someone on vacation could have forgotten their wall charger or don't even have a wall charger; they could just run to Walmart and buy some AA batteries. Seems like common sense, except corporations like to screw people of of money for something that could be cheap and easy to do.

JW

@Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E:
Last I checked, no, it can't. Not unless we're talking about an external video card or some proprietary adapter. Ditto for audio.

If anyone's willing to correct me, I'd be glad to see specifically where and how I'm wrong. Otherwise, I'm pretty solid in my assertion that a dock connector is better than vanilla USB.

DisposableInterloper

@jkr's bold comment: Doh, I knew that didn't sound right, SSD's are around 100-150 MB/s transfer speed, but the point the USB is not the bottle neck still stands.

jkr's bold comment

@DisposableInterloper: USB 2.0 has a max speed of 480 Mb/s [en.wikipedia.org] , which is sufficient for anything you want to do, especially since the fastest flash atm is only rated at 14.65 MiB/s [en.wikipedia.org]
Now as you can see, USB is far more than sufficient to handle all of the ipods data needs. And the mini USB is the exact same as the full sized USB, just in a different form factor.

jkr's bold comment

@Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E: So am I the only one who is suspicious that this guy is embellishing?

michaelwiggins

It's simply common sense for them to make the batteries user replaceable. There was no reason except greed on their part to make it as hard as possible for something a user can replace in virtually all other devices. They knew the batteries would outlast the device, and that you'd have to bring it in and pay more and more for service of something you can replace in any other thing you buy.

Nick_Bentley

@pcyoung: Lazer-pointers have removable batteries. . . but I see your point.

--Tito--

@jkr's bold comment:
That's data transfer. I'm talking about analogue audio output and fully fledged video output. Unless you want to awkwardly jam headphone/video out next to USB, the dock is the way to go.

DisposableInterloper

@DisposableInterloper: usb can easilt handle analog audio, that's how the audio jack works on a razor, it's usb. But why on earth would you want analog anything from a digital device. Modern TV's have USB built in, they can handle digital content. what's more, what percent of ipod owners would even utilive an anlog connection? We can't make everybody pay for proprietary connectors that only are used by .00001% of owners. But if you really want an anolog out, you can still use the USB, just have the converting hardware exterior to the ipod. Moving on, there is already an anolog output on the ipod called the headphone connector.

jkr's bold comment

@jkr's bold comment:
Well there we go, you need an adapter either way. I'd still like to see where that's part of the USB spec and not some proprietary voodoo Motorola thought would be a good idea.

As for the dock, it's handy for interfacing with home and automotive AV equipment, as well as for use with all those various iPod dock speakers and radio transmitters. Apple's dock design offers a clean, mechanically secure connection (enough so that you can even use headphones as a lanyard) with audio out that bypasses all of your equalizer settings, making it that much more convenient for the afformentioned uses. Further, ulike a digital connection, 3rd party products can be designed cheaper and simpler for any given level of quality.

A headphone port has its uses, but so does a docking port, more so than a USB port. Are we done yet?

DisposableInterloper

I don't buy products with non-removable batteries, so I don't have an iPod. And you know, my life continues just fine. No one needs laws that dictate what non-safety features a consumer product has. The recycling program handles this just fine.

BarrettAlligator