Welcome to the Plane*arium!

GadgetPlay

My God. It's full of stars.

mrrobotanger

sweet!!

aj8321

Worth it!

UpIrons

The exact same model projects stars in Hamburg, Germany since 2002 :)

Th3Chos3n0n3

A planetarium is a good place to invest money. Education and technology are vital to America's future, and it's good that Obama at least notes that much.

McCain should just shut up. Senile sack of shit. He should just be tossed in a nursing home and forgotten about.

DisposableInterloper

[www.boingboing.net] has a helpful graphic for the would-be Pres.

It's a bloody shame that genuine channels of scientific edumacatshun are deemed "pork barrel" spending. Even if this OHP gets a mention to act like a bunch of sticks-and-stones that would have been forgotten by most now if McCain hadn't made this stuff up.

Senile old bastard. (I jest, my fellow prisoners!)

J France

Federal spending is supposed to be for when a state or an individual cannot do something by themselves that would benefit the entire country. The city of Chicago or the state of Illinois could have afforded this projector.

Even though it causes me great pain, I can drive over to UNC Chapel Hill's campus and look at their stars. The entire planetarium was paid for by John Motley Morehead and his foundation. I'm sure their are plenty of rich citizens of the Wind City that could do the same, if asked.

LoganSix

$3 mil for freakin awesome? And it'll get kids to think about science? Good times. McCorpse, kindly STFU and go take your Geritol.

meefer

@DisposableInterloper: ... that's the attitude of a fatalist who needs to wake up and realize they can make a difference.

unspellable

I use to work at a planetarium, and as much as I love space science. Investing 3 million in a star ball projector really is not a good investment. One million could have got them a laser projector that could have done the same thing, and then they could do laser shows at night. If you've never experience "The Wall" as a laser show, you've never lived.

shaithis

A gadget magazine or a pro-obama machine....hmmmmmmm?@meefer:

The same kids who are obsessed with Mtv cribs?

Nastro

@LoganSix:
That's from the perspective of a libertarian. Times have changed, and big government is an inevitability.

DisposableInterloper

Uh, if it were a projector for his house and personal use, yes, it would be excessive. But for a freaking planetarium? Shut up John McCain.

Ike_Skelton

Yes learning about the cosmos is such a trivial thing when compared to buying killing machines.

strider_mt2k

@Nastro:

I just cant picture palin as president when mccain finally kicks the bucket. is she going to wink those foreign leaders into submission? "cute" them into concessions? no one will take us seriously after that

pevans34

To spark some kids imagination? To spark an entire generation of kids who go on field trips to see it?

Money well spent. (No sarcasm)

MrMaestr0

@DisposableInterloper:

This is what baffled me the most. I was IM-ing a more right leaning friend of mine who also is a huge space enthusiast. I couldn't believe of all the 'pork' out there that he would consider something like this.

Growing up in Kansas we knew about the Chicago planetarium. It was one of those things you wanted to see because it was well known.

It's not like this went into some BFE city with less than 7000 people. You can't go to Chicago without thinking about the museums that are there, and this was clearly a worthwhile use of federal money.

Compared to the other shit that is out there, this was a bad thing to pick on.

trekkie

@LoganSix: It's not 'Wind City' and it's not referred to as 'Windy' because of the wind. Dallas/Fort Worth has a higher wind speed average than Chicago. It was called that because the politicians were prone to taking bribes and I doubt much has changed.

unspellable

@DisposableInterloper:
Vitriol, much? I thought liberals were supposed to be tolerant, loving, and accepting of all people and their ideas? What's with the hate speech?

At any rate, the point a Republican would be making about an issue like this is that $3 million should have come out of the state or city's budget -- not the federal government's. You can try to paint them as anti-science, anti-education all you want based on issues like these, but all that does is illustrate a misunderstanding of the Republican view of the role of the federal government.

The_Gas_Man

@OMG! Ponies!: HEY MR. PONIES I THINK IT'S PRETTY NEAT OK

John Herrman

@unspellable:
I never said it's an unfortunate inevitability. Just that it's an inevitability.

I honestly don't mind a big government, and done right, I'd say it's even a desirable thing.

DisposableInterloper

Some points to ponder:

1) The U.S. borrowed the money to buy (at least part of) it, so it must be paid for plus interest.
2) No "due delibration" could be carried out on the purchase because it was buried in an earmark.
3) Part of my tax dollars (I live in Florida) went to pay for the projector in Illinois; I love the Illinois folks, but I might demur on buying them a planetarium projector, if I were asked.
4) Local Gizmodo evidence points to a distinct pro-Obama bias ;)

For the spending of money from the U.S. Treasury, this is the best story I've ever come across. Long, but good:
[pages.prodigy.net]

scarbrtj

@unspellable: Actually, it's the Windy City because in the winter, the winds pick up and blow over the lake. Combined with the tall buildings and grid system, the winds buffet you as you walk down the street.

@LoganSix: I'd love to live in a country where federal monies were only spent on projects directly or significantly and indirectly touching on interstate commerce. Those days are long gone. Federal monies are spent on everything from local infrastructure (Boston's Big Pig), to funding capital improvements for municipalities, to funding numerous studies and museums - real and boondoggle - around the country.

Sen. Obama has asked for earmarks, as has McCain. I'm sorry but your federal tax dollars are being spent on a local level. Welcome to a post-federalist America.

OMG! Ponies!

What an awesome thought provoking post, not to mention the comments.

stryder100

That 3 million dollars would have been much better used for 1 bomb to blow up a wedding in Iraq instead of creating wonder and interest in science for generations to come. /sarcasm.

Saboth

@unspellable: Your honestly talking about higher wind speeds and comparing different cities? Wow... get a life, it's a great town.

reefer

I kind of guessed that a $3 million projector at a planetarium was THE FUCKING PROJECTOR THEY USE TO FUCKING PROJECT STARS AT THE PLANETARIUM

OMG! Ponies!

@GadgetPlay: +1

shockwaver

@scarbrtj:

Your points are pretty ridiculous, especially on the point of "I live in Florida".

When we advance science and make discoveries in physics and engineering, is it only the people of Illinois that benefit? It is the American people (and humanity as a whole) who benefit. You are benefiting directly from government spending into "useless" science via your usage of the Internet. ARPANet was developed at UC Berkley (CA) and MIT (MA) among other states. Do you feel like you got gipped because you didn't get to vote on it?

Also, this isn't a pro-Obama bias. This is a pro-science bias.

Really?

charliedigital

The Republicans don't want an educated electorate. That's how they stay in power. Conservative does not have to mean you want to take us back to the good ole days, when life was simple and the Plague reigned over all. If the poor die of plague, there's no reason to cover them with health care.

I am not a Joe Six-Pack. Joe doesn't care about a planetarium past that Laser Floyd show.

gadjitfreek

McCain's got nothing on Obama if that's the worst thing he can come with. Considering that this "pork barrel" project wasn't even approved, it was a pretty stupid thing to bring up.

ObtuseGoose

@scarbrtj: Considering the other projector was installed in the 1960s, how much power savings is the new incurring per month? Was the old one broken? Could it be sold off? $3M is less than 1¢ from each US citizen.

PS: I'm now going to go to this planetarium the next time I'm in Chicago.

Leonard Nimrod

@ARP: McCain invented the Blackberry, didn't he? ;)

gadjitfreek

@scarbrtj:

4) Local Gizmodo evidence points to a distinct pro-Obama bias ;)

if only for the fact that McCain knows probably next to nothing about technology.

jchabotte

@scarbrtj: Illinois gets back substantially less for every federal tax dollar than does Florida (78 cents versus 95 cents) [of course, both get back substantially less than Alaska, which gets back $1.83 for every dollar it contributes).

[www.nemw.org]

emag

@strider_mt2k: Or that money could have been spent of bibles to further educate our children that everything in the planetarium is a lie.

Leonard Nimrod

@stryder100: I assume snark.

But I think its sort of BS when one politician calls out another one for pork barrel spending and the best he can do is a useful, educational projector at a planetarium.

So, it's not about a 50 Asus eee or a touch screen iMac, but its interesting to hear politican's attitudes about science education. There is some correlation to gadgets. Think of it this way, without these sorts of expenditures on education, you won't make that kid interested in science. Then who will design Web 3.0, Apple's next iPod, etc.?

ARP

@reefer: I think he's trying to say that the "Windy" in Windy City isn't because of our wind speed, it was because when we were competing with NY for the World's Fair, our politicans were saying all sorts of crazy things to disparage NY and to get the fair to come to Chicago (similar to our lobbying efforts for the Olympics). A New York reporter said suggested that people call Chicago the Windy City because its so full of hot air (meaning the politicians).

BOT- Between a projector that educates kids and a bridge to nowhere that costs 10+ as much, wasn't built, but she still kept the money, I'll take the projector

ARP

I was really amazed that Obama didn't pick up on this at the time. In my opinion, almost anything spent on education, particularly the hard sciences, is a good investment in our future.

I don't want to have to learn Chinese to be able to take a vacation on the moon.

mmcnary

@pevans34:
No, I think she's going to hunt them down like an unsuspecting moose in Alaska.

The_Gas_Man

last time I checked investing in education is a good thing, we had "space lab" in lower school which was ostensibly a large plastic dome that was filled with air via a small fan and the class sat inside and viewed the stars which were produced by a light with a lens and the star field cut out of a metal sheet. I would have shit myself if I had seen this planetarium as a kid. Plus kids, now are not so easily impressed.. (sadly) you need a 3 million dollar gadget to get their brains working!

windowi

Why would this be a problem? Government should invest in education. Here are my views on what government should do:

1. Educate
2. Protect those who cannot protect them selves
3. Protect people's freedoms/rights
4. Be a neutral party
5. Control big companies
6. Enforce the law

Things they should not do:

1. Dictate morals
2. Prevent people from doing what they want to do, if it does not violate someone else rights
3. Fight for resources, the military is to be used as a protective force
4. Lie to the people. If a political official knowingly lies to the people he should be put in jail for perjury against the masses

Government should be there to help us not hurt us.

rurena

Oh! And if $3 million is the going price for planetarium projectors these days, I'm gonna start building them!

EricAlder

Politicians only becry pork-barrel spending when/where they don't have their hand in the till...

Republican with head in pork barrel:
"Hey! (snark-snarf-oink-oink-gobble-gobble)
Look at the Democrat over there in that pork barrrel!"

Democrat with head in pork barrel:
"Oh yeah? (gobble-gobble-oink-oink-snark-snarf)
Look at the Republican in THAT pork barrrel!"

(Sidebar: Can't we find a more current term than pork barrel? Honestly, who keeps pork in a barrel anymore?)

EricAlder

@gqcarrick: Actually, this is projector crap, and for that, you've come to the right place!

bmbnbs

@The_Gas_Man: Only one problem with your logic, people from outside the city and state utilize the planetarium. Therefore, it falls under federal.

deadhouseplantz

@scarbrtj: Something to be said for the general good of the populous, thus the country. It's unpatriotic to be miserly with one's tax dollars.

J France

Haha, the way McCain spun it, I thought it was gonna be something like this...

Then I would have been thinking that Obama got ripped off.

Joseph

@meefer: calling names is going to turn this post into a political debate you are not ready for.

WD40

@The_Gas_Man: Oh good....now you're calling her a moose....is that with or without lipstick?

bdthurston

They make these in Jena Germany, and have a museum there where you can drive an old one around. Totally worth it for a few million I think.

blitzcat

@Leonard Nimrod: Is that what the Bible teaches? I must have an outdated one...need to upgrade

analyticalmind84

nice research Giz!

now why exactly would McCain slam an investment in education?

cuz he's a loo-hoo-ZER-her. yeah, i said it.

BlueRSX

@gqcarrick: No politics here, I was just sort of curious about what exactly a $3 million projector was. You can think it's a good idea or a bad idea to spend taxpayers' money on it, but it's cool tech either way.

John Herrman

Please get the political crap off of here, geeez. I already cannot read Digg anymore because of the massive political views that Obama will be our savior. Politics suck, the fore fathers of the country didn't want a two party system, atleast the first president didn't and thought it would ruin the nation.

gqcarrick

I give this post 5 stars!

uhm...Bob

@deadhouseplantz: When "people outside the city and state utilize the planetarium" they increase revenue to that said state or city through additional spending. Thus the point that the benefiting state and city should foot the bill.

With your logic the UN should pay for the planetarium since non-US citizens will most likely "utilize" the planetarium.

joepa1

More info on the old projector:
[blog.wired.com]

Ours is behind other planetariums, I really don't get the objection.

secretmanofagent

@deadhouseplantz: Your indeed right. McCain't didnt consider that when he threw out his obnoxious projector comment about 3 or 4 times during the last debate.

imTheKing

@rurena: run for president?

overdriven707

Let's see...

The now obsolete projector lasted for 40 years - and I'm sure didn't cost $3 million.

However, assume this one lasts another 40.

$3 million over 40 years is roughly $75,000/year. Per YEAR. The Feds WASTE that much money on frivolous crap that has nothing to with science or education on somewhere near a DAILY basis. Just WASTE.

I call this a WIN for education.

shorty63136

I thought McCane said it was $30 mil?

HJTravels

Actually, we didn't get it, they didn't approve it. Our current projector is 40 years old.

secretmanofagent

@OMG! Ponies!: I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with Federal tax going to state and local projects, but the way in which it has happened is absurd and open to abuse.

Distribute it to the state gov't, or to regulated bodies with specific focus (infrastructure, art & culture, education etc). The hands on pork barreling occupies folks who should be focusing on issues of greater import.

J France

@J France: Uh, no. Not when a huge percentage of my tax dollars pay for the salaries of useless bureaucrats and bombing of foreigners that I do not desire to be bombed. I feel a PATRIOTIC duty to be miserly.

If you feel so strongly about your cause, though, the IRS will let you donate MORE than just your annual tax burden to them!

robo

I live near Chicago and the Museum campus is awesome. If you have a full day you can take in the Adler Planetarium (which is sweet), Shedd Aquarium, and Museum of Natural History. They are all along Lake Michigan and within waling distance of the Soldier Field home of the once mighty Chicago Bears. )Hey they are in first place :/ )

madara

@avconsumer2: Wonderfully ignorant comments.

Dirk

@Leonard Nimrod: LOL. You jest, right?

yablunk

@The_Gas_Man: Your characterization of "the point a Republican would be making about an issue like this is that $3 million should have come out of the state or city's budget -- not the federal government's" is definitely fair in a broader sense. But in this case, McCain's comment definitely carried the connotation: "Obama is the kind of guy who will waste your tax dollars on some stupid overpriced office supplies." After all, he purposely left out any reference to an educational program because it would soften his point. To paint his words any way other than political rhetoric is just dishonest.

That said, I think $3 million in federal cash is a small price to pay to get kids interested in science -- especially considering all the other ridiculous crap our taxes pay for.

TheZolf

@jchabotte: Give him a break! He was born before technology existed. :P

robo

@GadgetPlay:
first thing i thought about as well

godwhacker

@The_Gas_Man:"Vitriol, much? I thought liberals were supposed to be tolerant, loving, and accepting of all people and their ideas? What's with the hate speech?"
So I guess republicans are supposed to be stupid arrogant pricks.

yablunk

@rurena: you sound like a damn good candidate. If you run, i'm voting you in.

imTheKing

@gadjitfreek: he invented being old and being out of date.

imTheKing

@Leonard Nimrod: I sure hope your joking. I know the Bible is....

imTheKing

@The_Gas_Man:

I thought the Republican view of the federal government was that they should spend as much money as possible while they are in power?

That said, I agree with your point completely, but that's because I am a libertarian, not because I am a Republican.

robo

@mmcnary: According to the series "Firefly," you're SOL and you're going to have to learn to swear in Mandarin.

ARP

@J France: It *is* pork barrel spending. BY what rights does the state of Illinois have to demand that all other states subsidize their planetarium? No, $3M isn't a huge sum of money in federal budget terms (it's an insignificant blip), but where does it stop? This is how we end up with bridges to nowhere and lots of other bullshit spending that the state legislator would scoff at and say "fuck no we aren't paying for that, but oh, if it's from the feds then sure why not!"

robo

@Forsakenchild: No doubt. Wonder how many bus rides to the country / astronomer for hire 3 million clams would have bought. Heh - interest alone probably could've paid for them in perpetuity. Sad.

avconsumer2

@Forsakenchild: Oh ya, and get this. You do not have to go to Chicago to enjoy this! Just wait for a clear night and head out away from the city and like magic they appear! STARS!

Forsakenchild

I'll take 2 plz!

KLanD

@gqcarrick: I'm not understanding how this is even acknowledged as political content. The only thing political about this is that no one had even heard about the grant until the debate.

bbkj1211

If I want to see the stars I just drive a half hour out of San Diego or head down to my girlfriends ranch in Mexico. Maybe take a telescope with me. Much more interesting than a screen projected viewing and costs a little less that $3mil. I guess as far as children go this is not all that acceptable of a solution because it might require parents taking some time off for the kids and spending some quality time outdoors.

Forsakenchild

So, 3 million off a billion dollar house bill. Its a pittance of the percentage, so let's itemize the rest of that one shall we and really see where the "pork" is and just who really voted for it and who lobbied it and what the hell else was stuffed in it last minute for certain red states and counties. This looks like a good buy to me.

aboriginal

Only a republican would call money spent to educate people "pork". Can we say "Nuki-ler"?

Noobs-R-Us

@aboriginal: The most recent "rescue" bill end the tax on arrows, cut all sorts of business taxes, and added some incentives for green energy. So, I agree, this is a tiny percent and actually serves a useful purpose.

ARP

@ARP: That wasn't just Mandarin. It was a fusion of Eastern and Western cultures. You could get along just fine using English swear words.

smartboydan hates college

Yea! how dare we put money into educational things, the audacity!!! That money could have gone striaght to Iraq. I tell you, we are heading in the wrong direction if we put money into educational things instead of a war.

mercury69

@J France:
"It's unpatriotic to be miserly with one's tax dollars."

says who? you?
seeing how the existing government has completely over-stepped their Constitutional boundaries, and has for decades engaged in social engineering, to the determent of the country and ALL it's citizens.
their true job is to be exactly that, miserly with my tax dollars.
if you are led to serve your fellow citizens, do it privately, on your own dime, not with my tax dollars.

godwhacker

@scarbrtj: Part of my tax dollars went to rebuild the infrastructure of parts of Florida many times after hurricanes hit. And yet, people still live in Florida, where hurricanes go. I'm happy to do it mind you, but when you complain about your tax dollars going to Illinois, think about all the tax dollars going to Florida because people live in an area that has a hurricane season.

badhatharry

@mrrobotanger: Ok, lol props for that. :)

akacrash

@shaithis: Fcukin Hippy, STFU the adults are talking. ;) j/k

bpapa9013

@loserflame: Campaign strategists and candidates should never ignore the swing nerds

John Herrman

@godwhacker: Man, I wish more people realized this.

The Fed does not exist to pay for everything some people think they're entitled to. As long as they're protecting me from foreign and domestic threats and building interstate highways, I'm fine. When they're spending millions or billions on projects that don't even benefit the entire country, then I have a problem.

CajunGuy

@rurena: Exactly. I want a large Government when it comes to oversight for large programs and business, and a small Government when it comes to how I live my private life. It seems the current trend is the other way around.

Roe v. Wade should be left up to the states my ass.

badhatharry

@ARP: Try more than a hundred times as much.

smartboydan hates college

@imTheKing: OH SNAP! +1

bpapa9013

@The_Gas_Man: So, unless we are going to start The New American Empire...

"...she's going to hunt them down like an unsuspecting moose in Alaska."

Would be really counter productive, and hopefully get her impeached.

bpapa9013

@analyticalmind84: @imTheKing: @yablunk: Yes and no. I was joking but I guess we need an emotion or an LOL after a comment these days. However, the Bible does teach in Genius of the 6 days of creation. Planetariums cover more than just the constellations, they also tend to teach-at least the ones I've been to in within the last 30 years-the age of the universe as well.

Leonard Nimrod

@yablunk: HAHAHA LOL +1

bpapa9013

Honestly, I don't get some of the responses. The last time I was at the planetarium, I saw a show that showed how the stars looked millions of years ago, and how the constellations were represented in ancient Egypt and their influence on their religion. I can't really go into the backyard for that.

I do think that the Planetarium should have invested in this, but what I don't get is why people are so upset about paying for science and education. It's one thing to fund something used to enrich students and individual's lives, it's another to compare it to a bridge to nowhere. How many million people would use it not just in one year but twenty years (conservatively), as opposed to a bridge in Alaska? Do bridges educate people?

secretmanofagent

@robo: Keep whining. It's not like the government was designed to allow federal funding of state projects or anything... Oh, wait. It WAS! Nevermind.

If you understood the difference in financial obligations (and budget sizes) relative to local, state and federal government, then you would understand the necessity of ear-marks. But thanks to McSame everyone thinks that they are just political handouts...

Yeah, they should be kept under control, but they are vital for many aspects of state projects funding.

bpapa9013

@J France: The problem with it is a bit academic and a bit arcane. As the United States was originally envisioned, the States themselves were largely able to govern themselves with certain caveats, such as a requirement that the States give "full faith and credit" to the laws and decisions of the sister States.

Overseeing it - but largely not controlling it - was the federal government. The federal was designed to give an overarching system of laws and a method of collecting taxes for funding federal programs. The things generally considered within the federal purview are the common defense through a federal armed forces and interstate commerce, including infrastructure used in connection with interstate commerce.

While the Congress is empowered to levy taxes and to spend on those things within its purview, it was not the original intent to have federal funds expended at a local level.

Programs like "The Big Pig" and "The Bridge To Nowhere" are problematic because federal monies are being used on a local level when they properly should be funded at a State or local level.

One of the benefits of this is that States then have a vested interest in preventing cost overruns and abuse as their budgets are smaller than that of the federal. The problem is that it undermines the division of the federal and the States.

OMG! Ponies!

I was watching the debate, and yeah, $3 million for an "overhead projector" seemed like a lot. But this is not one of those dinky things you find in classrooms. This looks like it's actually worth the 3 million.

smartboydan hates college

@deadhouseplantz:
the point of the federal government is to provide infrastructure and defense of the country. nothing more, nothing less. too bad this point has been lost throughout the last decades.

godwhacker

@Dirk: Wouldn't an ignorant comment be a comment where somebody claims a comment is ignorant without explaining what makes it ignorant?

Forsakenchild

I'm not here to argue whether or not I think this is appropriate use of federal money or not.
What I take offense to, as a geek, is McCain calling this an "overhead projector". He used that phrase with the intent to deceive and play on the stupidity of the ignorant.
This is a device that is far more complex than an overhead projector, and one that can be used for a good purpose: educating children and getting them interested in science, helping to ensure that we have scientists in the future.
The response that McCain anticipated from this comment is "$3 Million for a projector? The one at work cost $400! Obama is misappropriating American taxpayer money!"
I was more of a McCain supporter than an Obama supporter up until this comment. But now, I can't help thinking that if McCain is willing to deceive and play off of the percieved stupidity of the american public during the campaign, who is to say that he wouldn't do it while in office?

loserflame

@robo: Not too get to involved with the politics of this post, but earmarks represent roughly 1% of the $2T US budget last year. Not to imply that $3M (or any other attached pork) shouldn't be discouraged, but addressing entitlement programs (Medicare & Social Security) should be the forefront of the next president's plan to balance the budget.

That said, it was a good move my McCain. To everyone NOT budgeting a multi-trillion dollar budget it sounds extremely wasteful.

Johnny Chimpo

@blitzcat: They have a projector that you can drive around? Awesome.

Amsterdaam

@DaneB: Well, seeing as you're against socialism, I'm guessing you're against all of the bailout efforts including the most recent quasi-nationalization of banks.

Just let the markets fail, eh?

OMG! Ponies!

Very cool projector. Doesn't change the fact that Obama is still a socialist. Interesting too . . . seeing as if America was socialist, we probably wouldn't see cool technologies like this. What incentive would people have?

DaneB

3 million maybe pretty much but investments in science and education are worth more then 10 times the money spend on it

TBM-Fan

@DisposableInterloper:
seriously, just kill yourself, and get it over with.

skilled1

Heaven Forbid!
people may actually learn Astronomy from that, and we don't want LEARND people!
HE'S A WITCH! BURN HIM!

UrIt

That's no projector. It's a laser in disguise. Obama is going to use it to rule the world once he wins the election. Unless a certain maverick and his gun slinging side-kick can stop him first!

Jrsy is the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude

@avconsumer2: Lets do the math and I'll even be very conservative.

The planetarium hosts about 100 people per show and does 3 shows a day (a max total of 300 persons, per day). So that requires roughly 5 buses per day. For the sake of argument, lets say renting 5 buses for 3-4 hours costs about $3000. So, 200 days per year open x $3000 is about $600,000 per year. In 5 years, the money would be gone.

ARP

@N@tedog: Actually, it's referred to as the Windy City now because of a massive rash of unfettered flatulence. It sounds childish and immature and stupid and silly and obvious for me to say, but it's true. It's science!

Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E

First of all, the planetarium never received funding for the projector--the bill in question did not pass. Secondly, it was sponsored by a non-partisan coalition of Illinois congressmen and women--it was not a Democratic-sponsored bill, Thirdly, having grown up in Chicago and marveled at seeing stars and planets that, given light pollution I, or now my kids, would never be able to see is simply amazing. Fourth, the $3M would only cover about a third of the cost, according to a planetarium press release issued yesterday; the rest of the funding was to come from private and corporate funding. Finally, what better way could we possibly use our collective funding than to promote science education--the so-called bridge to nowhere, perhaps?

jimmyg

Certainly we wouldn't want to use tax money to promote education in this country.

This new culture of stupidity is alarming. Hey lets all be dumb together
AMERICA F**K YEAH!

soulfinger

I was wondering about that projector comment myself. Without even knowing what it was, I was sure that $3million bought more than your typical video or slide projector, which is what McCain would like us to think it was.

Gizmodo isn't a political blog, sure, but when gadget related issues come up that touch politics, people are going to have an opinion, particularly since this comes right near the end of an election season and one of the most important decisions an American can make is about to come to the table. This being a public forum, that opinion is shared. Be proud that you have the freedom to do this and stop complaining about it.

fsusmithc2

Why should the government "Control big companies?" The federal Government was the wellspring of this mortgage disaster precisely because they involved them selves in financial markets. There's no nuance about it the federal government bullied finanical companies to make loans to people below the standards the market would tolerate. this caused an inordinate amount of home building and to wrap it all up nicely they had the government backed institutions of Freddie and Fannie "spreading the risk" of these sub prime loans and marketed them as investment grade assets. It started with the Federal government.

That's not a question of regulation or deregulation but it is a question of interference and dictating the policy of private companies funded with private dollars owned by private citizens.

With that said, I agree with everything else you said except that your paradigm of governemnt supposed to be helping not hurting is in its self flawed. Government by it's nature takes freedom and impinges on the rights of others goverment never really helps they should be preventing us from hurting one another.

Nemesisesq

@bdthurston: He didn't call her a moose. ???

Kharnellius

Overhead Projector =/= Zeiss Universarium Model IX

But how could we really expect John "No Email" McCain to understand that?

bpapa9013

@windowi: My elementary had one of those, I loved it!

We got to go to a "real" planetarium at the end of the unit (nothing as good as the Chi one tho, and this was in like 1988).

bpapa9013

@OMG! Ponies!: @OMG! Ponies!: That's a misconception that it's called the windy city because of the high wind speeds. It's evolved to that now but 'unspellable' is correct in that Chicago initially got the nickname 'Windy City' because of the political 'big talk, little action' of the 19th century.

I'm from there. This is the truth, though it has nothing to do with the article.

xoxo
N@tedog

N@tedog

@rurena: Can I buy a yard sign?

bpapa9013

Wow, $3.5 millions spent on a planetarium? What a waste. Whatever you say Johnny. Expensive? Yes. Good investment? Yes. Pork barrel? No.

McCain probably would've considered an investment if it had gone as a corporate tax break somewhere.

McCain is shameless. Did you guys notice how, during the debate, he tried to plug Arizona as an "interstate health care choice of Tennesseans?" Then he did his little "I'm a maverick" smile. I'm glad Obama had a comeback for his little plug masqueraded as a joke.

Mr-Mr

It should be noted that Obama requested the funds for the projector, but it never made it to a vote. Technically, Obama never *voted* for the projector and obviously could not have spent the funds. Also, McCain counts the total value of Obama's requests in the nearly $1B figure he tosses around as "pork barrel spending". Per McCain's logic, if you asked someone for $100 each day for a week, you've requested $700, regardless of whether you only wanted $100 and never got it. If Obama made five requests for this projector and never got the money, according to McCain, that's $15M in pork. Again though, those funds never even made it to a vote.

sumocat

If I win the lottery, I'm buying one.

NefariousNewt

@windowi: Please, this is so far from the type of education we need. What we need is BASIC education for the masses. BASIC math and science programs, so that if the kids become interest in things like astronomy they have the fundamental knowledge required to be able to understand the more advanced concepts.

Staring a bunch of lights coming out of a $3 million projector is not going to produce the next Einstein.

Eric1285

I really wish they would put in a "None of the Above" as an option to vote for. If enough people voted for "None of the Above", the old 2 go away and 2 new candidates would have to be offered up for sacrifice to the media gods.

Krrong

@badhatharry:

Hell yeah, I was just about to say the same thing. Except I'm not happy about paying for the idiots in Florida to keep rebuilding houses and buildings where they shouldn't belong.

dead_red_eyes

Unless the old one is broken, there's no need to spend $3 million of Federal money for a new projector. I sure as hell don't want to be paying for it.

Even if it were broken, the money should have come out of the pockets of the state of Illinois or the city of Chicago. Or do they feel like sharing their tourism dollars with the rest of the country?

Eric1285

I keep asking the question, but can anyone, ANYONE, explain to me how "pork" and "earmarks" and "pickled pigsfeet" and "kids on the law" and all the other shit McCain rails against actually effects the economy?

Can anyone explain how slashing funding for education, infrastructure, health care, regulation/over sight, border security, etc, etc, etc, etc... Is going to save the economy?

Ol' Walnuts, without effort, pivots into "earmarks" and "wasteful spending" anytime the the economy is mentioned in a question.

He, and everyone else, is yet to explain how the two can possibly impact each other. If anything, it would seem that cutting funding to what was mentioned above, would result in more unemployment.

Voyou_Charmant

@Johnny Chimpo: You no longer get to retire at 65. People are living longer so you will now have to work longer.

See, I fixed social security.

jbownsabmw

@rurena: @rurena:

1st off, since this is about Federal spending, I presume your are speaking of what the Federal Gov't should do.

1. "Educate" Can you please point out where in the Constitution the Federal Gov't derives its power to "Educate"
2. This is a local law enforcement issue, not the Feds.
3. See #1. While that sounds great, I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to.
4. "Neutral" is such a loaded term. How about just doing what the Constitution says they're supposed to do.
5. "Control big companies" - Your inner Marxist is showing.
6. I wish they did this on the border... one of the few things they're actually directed to do.

tdenton1138

Just another example of what is wrong with McCain. I shuddered when he mentioned having to cut back on some programs during the debate, as we all know what that means: science and education take the hit. Space exploration will be all but ignored in new budgets (an endeavor I WANT my money to go toward). We cannot afford to remain stagnant.

Skorpius

@dead_red_eyes: Yeah, but I live in California, and while we don't have an earthquake season, the same argument could be made here.

badhatharry

step one: create quasi tech related newspiece that allows the use of Obama in title.
step two: work for gawker which has page view bonus
step three: shill for you personal political choice
step four PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok.
we get it.
now can you post something worth a shit?

mikeg916

whatever happened to stars the stick to ceiling that glow in the dark? $2 a bag?

onewiththewurlitzer

duh, Obama is representing Illinois, I don't see any problem gettig $3 million for his own state especially for an good cause.

os_2

I'm guessing that some former staffer's head is just about done rolling over this one. Despite this horrible gaff on McCain's part, I still feel obligated to vote against the radical socialist and the blatant plagiarist.

GadgetPlay

It's stupid shit like this why the guy is behind on the pols! Tech man. Tech is our future. Kids and education and high-tech should be on our top 10 list of priorities in this country. Wow. Like many here have said, there's plenty of other pork crap that could've been mentioned instead.

apeguero

just one more reason NOT to vote for Obama. He's ruined our state and he's off to ruin the country now.

knappoleon

Screw, Barack Hussein Obama. Ok thats a good 3,000,000 dollar investment for education. Where did the other 997,000,000 million dollars go to? I think I'm going to vote for Ralph Nader this time

s2000_racer

@Rabid Penguin: Unless the planetarium is being used for a Pink Floyd laser-light show... the Bible remains silent on that.

Rabid Penguin

kids on the lawn*.

I hate when I don't proofread and then ruin a joke.

ugh.

Voyou_Charmant

@Leonard Nimrod: I don't get it. Does the Bible say that celestial bodies, such as stars, don't exist? Does it say the the projector used to project those planets and stars doesn't exist? Does it say that the dome structure that the projector is in doesn't exist?

Genesis 1:14-19 seems to support the idea that a planetarium isn't projecting lies.

Rabid Penguin

Wow, that's really cool.

It should be, for $3 million.

I want one in my town too. Don't you?

Great, so take the number of towns...* $3 million...and I'm sure you'll all be happy to donate your tax dollars for it, right?

Just because something is "cool" doesn't mean it makes sense for tax dollars to be spent on it. If this projector hadn't been bought, would the world be changed in any big way? Would anyone be harmed? Would anyone truly be that much less knowledgeable? You can learn an awful lot about stars/planets/space on the internet for free and in school...planetariums are cool and neat, but that's about it.

jiznerdo

@Rabid Penguin: No the Bible does not say that planets and stars do not exist, but it does say the manner in how they got there is a lie according to science.

According to the Bible the Earth was created in 7 days, there were no dinosaurs, and the Earth is only 6,000 years old. I doubt very much you would learn such things in a place of science.

Kaos78

@mrrobotanger: Ditto.

Aaron Martin-Colby

HEY!!! Everyone settle down!! McCain is still getting used to the world being round, ok? Take it easy on the old fart. If that doesn't make sense, I'll put it to you in gadget terms:

johnnyabnormal

@robo: The same rights that mean Illinois is a part of the Union, governed by the Unions government, protected by the Unions military, controlled by the Unions legislature, benefiting from the Unions economy, and etcetera, as opposed to being an isolationist and small country surrounded by a far richer one.

What a god damned retarded statement. You're a secessionist.

Indigen

You guys should read this article. According to the Planetarium: McCain's Statements Were Inaccurate.
[www.nbc5.com]

whitesoxfan

@meefer: Your right that it is a good investment, but they might not need a new one.
I've seen the current one before and I remember it being pretty badass, it was 1999, but I still don't think even now it is really "obsolete". What I really don't understand is why they don't just start a donation fund for the thing, they would get the cash pretty quick for a good cause.

mferrari

If any of you would take the time to read the Constitution, you'd see that the United States Government has no business buying a projector for a planetarium in Chicago, Il.

I know, I know. I am so old fashioned.

Respectthebox

@GadgetPlay: ::golf clap::

ILikeMacsWhatAboutIT

Um guys? This is kind of, you know, the Definition of pork barrel. That is, projects that primarily benefit the constituency of the official obtaining the funds.

Much as the McCain bashing is in line with the rest of the Gawker franchise, this is a valid point.

Ellomdian

@rurena: ONE HUGE PROBLEM. The constitution defines the role of government. That's the beauty of our system. The government is meant to follow the will of the people. Instead we have dems who want to elect judges who make up laws. Those are nice ideas but again our constitution defines our government. Good night, our country has no hope when people can't even remember that basic fact.

coolkiwilivin

I live in Chicago, like the Adler planetarium and am a huge Obama backer. That being said, there's no reason in hell anyone outside of Illinois should be spending their money on this.

RalphWiggum

@Indigen: I agree. I am more than willing to assist, with my tax dollars, any state's efforts to improve science education.

Ben Zvan

when they re-did the rose center at the nat. hist. museum in NYC they put in a zeiss mark X projector (i'm guessing its even more expensive...) supposedly, it can recreate the night sky perfectly...up to 100 light-years away...that is, the star positions are adjustable for 3D space...at least locally...

sexyrobot

yeha!! finally, i always had a problem with the word planetarium, becuse we barely see planets in the sky, mostly are stars.

@Eric1285: well i went to a very good elementary school with programs that help kids get interested in scholastic things, when i went to the universarium as a kid a was blown away and to be honest all the kids in my school are working in fields that were inspired from those extra curricular activities, and kids that i know that went to public schools were they were not shown the cool side of science, and social sciences, most of them became college drop outs, also who that has been to the NY museum of natural history's planetarium, hasn't come out all exited??

esh-satril

@Eric1285: I agree with that one.

orangesrhyme

@Nemesisesq:
" The federal Government was the wellspring of this mortgage disaster precisely because they involved them selves in financial markets. "

LOL. The Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 was DEREGULATION that led to the current mess. Enron was due to DEREGULATION. S&L mess was due to DEREGULATION. All these were deregulation supported by McCain. For a man who says he knows little about economics he sure has a good record of screwing up our economy. In fairness: the 1999 act was signed by Clinton, so hey, plenty of blame to go around.

LESS regulation led to the last three huge financial clusterfucks. The great depression was a result of no regulation and the fed just standing by doing nothing.

Given the chance the high rollers in the financial sector will not hesitate to screw the tax payers and their own shareholders for a short term gain. That is why there is regulation.

Why conservatives fight and rail against stuff like the planetarium: they have built their base on painting educated, moderate people as "elite." If you want to learn about the stars at a planetarium or go to museums: you are a liberal elite. If you want to have a symphony in your city and actually go to it: you are a "liberal faggot." Ignorance is celebrated by their base now. They have painted education as a liberal agenda and when they do support education it is in the form of unfunded mandates and failed policies like "abstinence only" sex ed.

commentotron

@Eric1285:
I think you're looking at it a little shallowly. How are young kids supposed to be motivated or influenced to give a shit about things like astronomy or space if they never see it? If they never are awed by its greatness?

If you just start studying math for no reason, you have to be thrilled by math itself to be motivated. But if you are pumped about where that math knowledge can TAKE you, then you've broadened your scope of kids who will be pumped about math.

car47

@coolkiwilivin:
Nice hyperbole. Under that same rationale, why should we pay for roads in someone else's state? I'm sure there's quite a few states you've never visited.

I question why I stay in this country sometimes; Americans are dumb as hell. If you do not make investments in the future in regards to science and education, then you condemn your future to be subservient to another country.

secretmanofagent

I live in Florida, and I agree with you. We should always help each other, especially when it comes to educating and inspiring the children. You never know from which state the next president will come from. It's a benefit to all of us.
+ we receive money all the time for Hurricane damages each year.
@badhatharry:

sebas0069

My friend, I share your pain in the pocketbook. However, it takes investment to create a society/workforce that can compete in the world. In our history, we've done this in many forms. (One of the most successful was the G.I. Bill of Rights, which many Republicans opposed.)

Bottomline: If we don't start interesting our kids in science and technology (FAST), we aren't going to be able to compete internationally. It's already starting to happen. Once that occurs, kiss our high-paying tech jobs, what's left of our manufacturing base, and trillions of dollars in capital goodbye.

This will make any problems you see now, seem tiny by comparison.

@coolkiwilivin:

dcjeepguy2001

@godwhacker: You have the live and liberty part with infrastructure and defense, but they also have to provide people with the pursuit of happiness, which includes a multitude of things from education to economic management. The role of the federal government in state legislature is up to debate and mainly decided by precedent. It comes down to how the people we elect decide to deal state issues.

Zomb

Yes this is bad. Why should his district get this massive pay off? Why shouldn't my hometown get a $3 Million dollar planetarium? Regardless, this shows the complete and total bankruptcy of the democrats. It's NOT their money to dole out to their friends. It's OUR money. Our government is defined by the constitution, please show me in the constitution where I need to pay for a planetarium is someone else's state? But I guess since he's going to bankrupt the country anyways, everyone will get a 3 Million dollar planetarium.

coolkiwilivin

This is the reason why you have to check out almost everything politicians say. McCain's comment implied that you could get this $3M unit for a lot less and have the same performance. I've been in the projection business for over 25 years, and there is about as much similarity between this Carl Zeiss planetarium projector and an "overhead projector", as there is between a tow truck and a bicycle. The Zeiss units (which have been in production for many decades) is a precision tool for recreating astronomical (scientific) images over a hemispherical interior of a planetarium. (Hint, Mr. McCain: This is used for the teaching and science enrichment.) What McCain calls an "overhead projector" (which is a very imprecise term that can describe anything for the old write-on transparency projectors, to a cheap video projector mounted on a ceiling)is a totally different animal that could NEVER be used for scientific/astonomical/teaching purposes. First off, these units are more than just projectors. They contain lots of robotics, precision optics, and image processing electronics. The "overhead projector" that McCain refers to does none of this, nor can the projector itself be used to provide high-brightness, geometrically-correct, high-resolution imagery. I sincerely hope that this is the result of political hyperbole. (With the challenges our country faces now, we need people who are a bit more honest and precise.)

dcjeepguy2001

you see the problem is that we want to solve problems at once, but ecomomy problems will not be solve fast and not by having the govern focus on them, we have to look for a solution that not just fix it but fix it permanently (and as long as we keep up with it im sure will work) and i think that it is by education we are F*cked already there is no way to for us to get rich, but looking at others countries, like japan china and india, (forget about what they are doing wrong) they rised because past generations bet on education, their new generations are finding things to help the economy, why can we just take those good things and apply them here, like imagine how much would you save if we didn't depend in gas, but water to run cars??? how much would save a week, and if we develop OLEDs that can substitute, every single thing that have or need light to function (as good as the one we use) and use less that 10 watts, how much would you save???

you see as i see it is not about getting it right now but really getting it, and stop playing the chase game, to open a hole to close another, and the illusion of stability

esh-satril

@Kaos78: The Bible says the the universe was created in six days, there are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible (depending on what you think the Leviathan and Behemoth were), but there is no denial of dinosaurs, also the Bible makes no claims as to the age of the Earth. People have just tried to make estimates based on genealogies listed in the Bible.

Rabid Penguin