Yeah, God forbid people be able to run code on what amounts to a computer... that they PAID for...

nutbastard

heheh, he said "dongle"

SleepingMartyr

This DOES NOT boot back-ups or homebrew games. Please correct this story. It only serves to un-brick Wii's that have been locked up due to a very specific set of reasons. Please look here for details.

[hackmii.com]

wiggatron

@Con Seannery: QOTW!!!

Zaxxon Q Blaque

ZOMBIE WIIs!!!!

Toshie

@Con Seannery: Ooops, looked like it ate it when i reposted...

Con Seannery

So, it revives dead Wiis...LIKE VIAGRA

Con Seannery

How long would it take Nintendo to release a new firmware upgrade to block this?

Git Em SteveDave is starlost

So, reviving a dead Wii...JUST LIKE VIAGRA

Con Seannery

Those aren't 80's guitar riffs. That's a remix of the Donkey Kong Country theme song.

DisposableInterloper

I wonder if this will enable pirates to run backups. If so, Nintendo will come down on it like a ton of bricks.

markarian

@jackfrost132: No, you misunderstood what the article said. It said you can use home brew tools in conjunction with this device in order to un-brick Wiis.

"To clarify, this won't actually fix anything. It just lets you fix it, using homebrew tools and/or newer retail games, depending on what exactly you need to fix."

There are ways to boot home brew via softmods or chips, and that is likely what he was referring to.

wiggatron

@wiggatron: It say's right on the bottom that you can boot in recovery and fix a Wii using homebrew apps, which means it's possible to run homebrew, so while this doesn't mean you can run back-ups, it could be the step needed to get your system to, much like the pandora battery won't let you run back-ups but is the step needed to get you to. This could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

jackfrost132

@nutbastard:

The reason wii does not want you to run your code is because it makes a lower margin on their hardware then sucks the deficit back on the official licensed software. That and you can run pirated material so all that hard work they put in their stupid software can copied off for the price of a rental. Why does everyone treat IP as it is their god given right to steal.

You can get devices that run any code and are slightlhy more expensive they are called PC's. Maybe if they charged 399 dollars you could do what the hell you like and would you want that and then they would not have to make you buy those shit games where you wave your hands about looking like a dick.

ichi1

@markarian: Very punny...

Con Seannery

@markarian: Riiiight... Just like the R4 chip that has been out for... how long now?

@Git Em SteveDave is starlost: As long as the Big N uses tools like this to do their own recoveries than any kind of firmware update will only stop it long enough for the modder to work around it. Usualy about a week or so.

Mr.SithNinja

@ichi1:

look im against video game piracy as much as the next guy (im not going to get into what differentiates it from music piracy) but disallowing homebrew is just weak. THEN AGAIN, if one has beef with that, they should just not buy a wii. ON THE OTHER HAND, if you buy one, it's yours, and i dont see how anyone can say what (homebrew or unpirated) code you can and cannot run on it.

nutbastard

@1roll20s: DCMA is only valid in the USA and only under very specific circumstances.

geowrian

@nutbastard: That's just it. You can run any code you like the trick is doing it without breaking DCMA to figure out how to do it.

1roll20s

@nutbastard: If any console launched somehow with the ability to run homebrew as standard without enabling piracy, the search for the ability, and the running of, pirated software would continue unabated.

"For homebrew" is the biggest crock of shite an excuse for stealing I've ever heard. 3D test apps, the ability to check your email and wardriving capability is not interesting and doesn't save thieves money, and shitty homemade games don't interest anyone who paid money for the platform to run commercial ones. Fortunately Nintendo, MS and Sony also see through it. Regardless of how many software pirates mouth on about legitimate homebrew. Ooh! A media player! Ooh! An IM client! Ooh! A web browser! Get the fuck out of here.

Cultivar

@1roll20s:
Bingo! Nintendo has every right to protect their investment. If you can find a way to do extra "stuff" then no one is stopping. However, break their security and you're going down.

JEmlay

if i were nintendo i wouldn't worry about piracy. their games for this new system so far have been almost entirely shit and require a 3rd party piece of plastic.

dkoemans

Crap, hit caps and then submit before I was ready. Yea, PSP Dungeons is a good 3D FPS for PSP all homebrewed.

On the DS, I'm currently playing VGHERO and it is amazing. It's a great take on Guitar Hero (never played the official DS game). I poured 4 hours into VGHERO today. Music is nicely remixed.

Homebrew can do a lot of good. In fact, that's where most XNA games are coming from, home-grown Indie devs.

CutePuppyz

@Cultivar: Really? Have you ever seen any PSP homebrew? They're pretty amazing, adding multimedia features, remotes and other amazing stuff for your PSP to become. File managers, text document viewers, you name it. So don't go mocking homebrew.

Sure a lot of the games are shitty, but a lot are good too. PSP DUNGEONS

CutePuppyz

@CutePuppyz: yep -on psp I mainly end up playing emulators and with rhythm, granted I do play games on the psp- but for the most part most good games on the psp don't have a lot of replay value with the exception of puzzlequest

entropyman

Donkey Kong Country. Man I loved that game. And it wasn't even during it's glory days, I was staying with an uncle for a week and found a SNES and that game in his basement. This was when the Gamecube was still the newest Nintendo thing.

videoCWK

@Cultivar:

If homebrew is soooo shitty, and can't compete with professional products, why the hell does it have to be forcefully stifled? you fail, sir.

nutbastard

@Cultivar:

"If any console launched somehow with the ability to run homebrew as standard without enabling piracy, the search for the ability, and the running of, pirated software would continue unabated."

Dude. That's called a PC. And I'm less interested in stopping piracy than i am in promoting reasonable property rights. if you own a wii, it's YOURS do with what you please.

nutbastard

@nutbastard:
Seriously? You can't figure that out? If I recall properly, you where told exactly why in an old article.

Generally speaking, running your own code = piracy. Or rather, leads to piracy.

Now put 2 and 2 together and see if you can come up with 4.

"if you own a wii, it's YOURS do with what you please."
The hardware? Yes. Can you legally break, alter, duplicate the software security on the Wii? Nope. Try again.

JEmlay

I hate to admit it, but I watched the clip solely to hear the "80s guitar riffs."

FritzLaurel

@JEmlay:

That's tantamount to saying that access to firearms == shooting people.

If you own the hardware, and you own the code (or it's open source) why should there be legal/technical barriers preventing you from running it?

I understand that locking it down does present an obstacle for piracy, but the wii isn't any different than a conventional computer - essentially a console that DOES allow you to run whatever code you want - and various other anti piracy methods seem to work as well as they can.

nutbastard

@nutbastard:
"That's tantamount to saying that access to firearms == shooting people."

1. No it's not. 100% of exposing products to run self made code has lead to piracy (keep it to consoles). Thus 100% of vendors attack homebrew vigorously. It's called ACTION -> REACTION. In no way is Nintendo REACTING before there's been an ACTION. In order for your comment above to actually be "tantamount" you would have to prove that 100% of "access" to firearms has resulted in people getting shot.

2. To indulge you, we have created some security around firearms because people DO kill people with them. Black market = piracy scene. Is it legal to own a gun? Yes. Is it legal to BREAK the security system around obtaining a gun? No.

"If you own the hardware, and you own the code (or it's open source) why should there be legal/technical barriers preventing you from running it?"

Didn't I just get done saying above that there is nothing stopping you? If you can find a way to run it then go ahead. If you need to BREAK existing security to do so then you are performing an illegal action in a whole other area. Mass produce that and they'll take you down.

You keep going back to a PC example yet a PC does not contain any digital security. A PC is basically open source in itself. A Nintendo Wii is not open source. A Nintendo Wii is not just hardware like a PC. A Nintendo Wii is hardware PLUS software. Software that happens to be protected by law. So unless you know of any DRM'ed or protected BIOS software I've never seen, you are comparing apples and oranges.

JEmlay

@JEmlay:

"If you need to BREAK existing security to do so then you are performing an illegal action in a whole other area."

But your argument is hinging on the absolutist ideal that illegal == wrong, with no room for discussion.

To say something is wrong because it's illegal is a non-argument - things that are wrong are wrong even in the absence of concurring legislation.

nutbastard

@nutbastard:
"But your argument is hinging on the absolutist ideal that illegal == wrong, with no room for discussion."

Nice try. I see your "fork" and raise you a spoon! I'm not discussing opinion. Have fun!

JEmlay

@JEmlay: "1. No it's not. 100% of exposing products to run self made code has lead to piracy (keep it to consoles). Thus 100% of vendors attack homebrew vigorously. It's called ACTION -> REACTION. In no way is Nintendo REACTING before there's been an ACTION."

Please provide some evidence that the intentional exposing of products to run self made code has lead to piracy. Maybe I'm wrong, but the only major gaming system that has done that is a PS3 with Linux, and that isn't hacked for game piracy (yet). Security exploits are one thing, but code designed to allow the running of other code is another.

Also, the "reaction" could be in response to a perception of an action, not an action. In other words, somebody *could* react because they believe something has happened, even when it actually hasn't happened.

"If you need to BREAK existing security to do so then you are performing an illegal action in a whole other area. Mass produce that and they'll take you down."

That's incorrect, at least in the USA and most major countries. In the USA, breaking a security mechanism, with the exception of national security, military, police, etc. devices, for personal use is fully covered under the fair use act. This has been held up in court numerous times. The distribution of tools, and very rarely the information on how to do so or make said tools, is what can be illegal. Anyway, the short story is that it's your device that you own (not licensed), and are therefore allowed to make any modifications you want to do pretty much anything you want (within reason). Downloading games and playing them on the unit would still be copyright infringement, but the device itself is completely legal.

geowrian

@geowrian:
"Please provide some evidence that the intentional exposing of products to run self made code has lead to piracy."
Are you serious? Aside from the PS3 you can think of another game console that has NOT be exploited for piracy? Even the PS3 HAS BEEN exploited if you count the test units. Either way, it's still new.

"Also, the "reaction" could be in response to a perception of an action, not an action....."

Seeing as how ALL game consoles are exploited/exploitable what exactly is your point?

"That's incorrect, at least in the USA and most major countries. In the USA, breaking a security mechanism...."

BS. That is flat out false.

"The distribution of tools, and very rarely the information on how to do so or make said tools, is what can be illegal."

Go back and read. SLOWLY. Because that's exactly what I said earlier. Sorry, did my use of the term MASS PRODUCE instead of DISTRIBUTE trip you up?

"but the device itself is completely legal."

Wrong again. I guess you also failed to understand that the "device" is hardware PLUS software. Yes, there is a LICENSE. For whatever those licenses are worth!

JEmlay

@JEmlay: "Are you serious? Aside from the PS3 you can think of another game console that has NOT be exploited for piracy? Even the PS3 HAS BEEN exploited if you count the test units. Either way, it's still new."

Note the keyword "intentional" in my post...I am not talking about security exploits, but an intentional design to run homebrew code. Since no game system that I'm aware of has even tried that (barring the PS3 w/ Linux), I don't see how you can argue that adding homebrew capability means it will lead to piracy.

"BS. That is flat out false."

Well then I guess past cases, the recorded law, and precedent is irrelevant. No point in my trying to persuade you otherwise...

"Sorry, did my use of the term MASS PRODUCE instead of DISTRIBUTE trip you up?"

I never disputed that fact, but thanks for treating me like an idiot nonetheless.

"Wrong again. I guess you also failed to understand that the "device" is hardware PLUS software. Yes, there is a LICENSE. For whatever those licenses are worth!"

Sorry...I didn't know I was being quizzed. But seriously, I am referring to the "device" as the hardware. The software enables the "device" to perform a set of functions. As for the license, it's only valid as long as you agree to the EULA (the "by opening this you are agreeing to the EULA" deals are completely illegitimate...lawyers just throw in everything hoping something sticks), doesn't fall under fair use, and doesn't violate any laws or regulations. If you don't use the licensed software in your homebrew, then there is no violation of any agreement (even if the EULA says so, it's not valid in a court of law). As for "software", it's applicability varies from region to region...some include the firmware on the chips and some don't.

geowrian

@geowrian:
"I don't see how you can argue that adding homebrew capability means it will lead to piracy."
Easy, it's happened 100% of the time. I figured that part was clear. Unless you are going to try to prove that ALL homebrew ad piracy projects have been 100% separated? Good luck!

"Well then I guess past cases, the recorded law, and precedent is irrelevant. No point in my trying to persuade you otherwise..."
As I seem to have to do time and time again with Nutbastard, a PAST CASE does not dictate law. Murderers get off due to technicalities, does that mean murder is legal? The direction you are taking with your argument is worthless. The only way to dictate law to actually dictate the LAW.

"I never disputed that fact, but thanks for treating me like an idiot nonetheless."
I did no such thing. Your comment directly repeated what I quoted.

"Sorry...I didn't know I was being quizzed. But seriously, I am referring to the "device" as the hardware."
Oh! Ok. so you want to discuss a product AS A WHOLE which is both hardware and software but you want to draw conclusions while IGNORING half the product?

What was the point again?

"If you don't use the licensed software in your homebrew, then there is no violation of any agreement"
And? Did anyone state otherwise? This has nothing to do with BREAKING the security that protects the software of which your homebrew then USES. Not uses as in the homebrew contains it's code. Uses as in USES.

You can not circumvent copy protection schemes. That software is protected by law in the US and many other countries. Canada is quickly following.

JEmlay