the cell is fine, we just need a upgrade on the grafix... as the RSX GPU has less pipelines then the xbox's GPU chipset... although the RSX is higher clocked...
maybe a addition of a better general purpose CPU in adition to the SPUs.... idk

segamanxero

As long as it has Madden, GTA and plays Blu-Ray movies, I'll be fine.

Dark Knight and Matrix on Blu this winter? Santa does exist!!!

Chester_Copperpot

Oh noes !!1

Well, just give me some cheap and nice console, and Im bying

Hellicus

So, from what I understand here, Final Fantasy XIII will finally go gold master when the PS4 hits shelves. Thanks, all clear now.

GhostofCharlesBronson

if they're just doing some minor upgrades, i'd really wish they'd just be honest with themselves and the public and call it the playstation 3.5

jrghoull

Or maybe it will have a faster clock rate and more SPUs and a new graphics card.

MacBandit

Sounds more like the PS3.5 to me.

MeanMF

Or maybe it will have a higher clock rate with more SPUs and have a new graphics card.

MacBandit

This doesn't sound good...

drocha184

If this is true it better have some way of increasing the horsepower by quite a lot...so far the PS3 has done little to show itself as a more powerful system...sorry fanboys but KZ2 looks good but not groundbreaking.

I doubt Sony will go that route, but who knows. I am just finally happy that when LBP releases I will have a reason to play my PS3.

Lukewind

So Home 2.0 won't be out till 2012 then?

cowpop

Just as long as its not a fugly grill.

CutePuppyz

@jrghoull: The wii is basically a gamecube in terms of hardware, except for the interface. It depends what Sony does.

Zlevee

@Voohoo: I agree. Doesn't it already have 7 or 8 cores?

Also, let's not forget the main part of the Ps3 is the graphics chip, not the cell.

VakeroRokero

Don't worry guys, it'll have a "Duo-Cell processor" or some shit like that.

Voohoo

As long as they don't try to make it too much like the Wii. Gimmicky gameplay does not replace good gameplay. I think they should just not make it the PS4, and just continue development on the PS3. I don't think they have come close to its potential yet while the 360 is, supposedly, nearing what developers can squeeze out of it.

I guess for me it doesn't matter, I don't have a PS3 anymore, but it seems they would be doing themselves and their customers a favor by just making their already well designed and pretty powerful system last longer.

VulnoX

...Innovation... A New way of gaming... Jesus, you should do their marketing.

Moonshadow101

PS4? Seriously? I agree with those who say that Sony should forego the making of a new console and focus more on the content side. I'm sure that given more time developers will really begin to tap in to what the system is capable of, which will hopefully lead to plenty of great titles to buy. In it's current state, the PS3 is a nice Blu-Ray player for me, but nothing else. I've had it almost a year and have yet to buy a game for it, and I know I'm the majority.

surfer88

@Lordstrom: Yeah. I thought Sony had the long haul in mind with the PS3. And hell, there are a lot of things on the PS3 that haven't been completed yet!

That makes the PS3 lifespan 4 years if 2010 is indeed when the PS4 hits.

Anticitizen

@Lordstrom: I believe games are still being made for the PS2.

smartboydan hates college

What about all that 10 year lifespan bullshit?

Lordstrom

The PS4 will not be out in 2010...the PSP2 will be and IT will be using a version of the Cell. PC Watch got that tidbit wrong.

Kspraydad

@igneous: Insightful!

Kspraydad

I don't believe this news... this is propaganda from M$ and Nitendo !!!

prouted

@Lordstrom: Think a little harder about what lifespan means.

winterorchid

sony is quickly becoming a joke

igneous

Just update the graphics processor would probably suffice. If they build an entirely new CPU, developers might probably need a new set of API and games are expensive enough to develop these days with the current generation of extremely complicated stuff. If they put out an even faster processor, games might become too expensive to develop for smaller developers, which might not be a good thing for us.

praefector

Screw this, I'm not even a console gamer and I'm still more excited over the next Xbox. Now THAT'S going to be fantastic, or at least if Microsoft doesn't half ass it and make another console that has repairable monthly hardware failure and money-lose rates to make the next biggest historical gaming market multi-billion crisis since their 360.

7raczyk

using the same processor means that developers will be used to the architecture so it won't take forever to get some good games coming along. Seeing as the cell is still a very powerful chip and has yet to be fully taken advantage of I can see it lasting. But who knows what the next 2 years will bring in terms of processor development, they might need to throw 2 cells in the ps4.

thedarkhorse

Fuck this, I'm not even a console lover and I'm more excited about the next Xbox. That's going to be amazing... IF there will no monthly hardware failure and another billion dollars burned to ashes.

7raczyk

@Kspraydad: Keep on dreaming dude

Hellicus

@Lordstrom: Yeah... I kinda feel like it's too soon... I just got my PS3 like last November....

PlayerX

Yeah, from what can be read from the original article by translating it with Google (not much...), they are really talking about using the Cell B.E. the architecture again, not using the exact same chip that's inside PS3 at the moment. Sony has already invested much into the architecture and seems to be sticking to it's guns in hopes of making it larger success, PS3 was just the launch of it for them.

ara

Is Sony still in the red with the PS3 and do they have any hope of becoming profitable by the time people are expecting PS4?

SuperSan

If they mean designing new chip based on Cell architecture, it's probably not a bad idea, if they are able to learn enough to put decent development tools together. Hardware is not bad, just too hard to exploit when comparing to the ease you can move between PPC base Xbox360 and x86 based PC with Microsoft development tools. But if they mean using the very came CPU with minor tweaks, I'm very disappointed.

ara

really, i think cell is kinda overpowered for the ps3's ram ammount and video chipset.

it should stand another generation easily... also, they can also change the package...

laio

Great, more money I can throw at my favorite A/V company...

UncleArgyll

So basically, it is something PS3 should originally have been.

ripfire

You guys use to love saying that sony lies! Why can't this be a lie from sony?

Jitty

@Lukewind:

Why don't you sell your PS3? You obviously don't like it if the only game on it that pleases you is LBP. No really, sell your PS3, the PS3 online community would probably be a better place.

Jitty

I don't understand the bad vibes I'm getting, It will have a cell processor,ok. It will not be the same one that's in the ps3 now. It'll probably be 45nm (or less), more efficient, and probably a higher clock speed, it will probably be able to dust the current cell processor 10 times over. Not only that but devs who are making games for PS3 now (and those who may have problems) will be over all the costs, and programming issues and will be able to use the cell processor better.
This moves saves alot of money and still will be able to compete with any processor that the next MS system will have.

The only thing I think we need to worry about is the graphics processor.

br4nd0n

They haven't reached the potential of the cell chip in the PS3, but they have reached the GPU potential. They could easily replace the GPU and have a much more powerful machine. Same logic applies if you have a real powerful CPU in your PC and you upgrade the graphics card or *MEMORY it feels like a completely different computer.

Now memory is where they should look long and hard at. With memory prices still in a skydive how can they not afford to reduce loading times?

Chewbenator

They're moving onto a PS4 in 2010? What the hell? We haven't gotten anything out of our current $500 machine and we're suppose to shell out another $500 for a new one? It's a giant black paperweight that folds proteins. At least I can watch Blu-Rays in Hi-Def glory.

ChapmanAuxo

I think this just sounds stupid... same CPU??? I've never heard of that for the next iteration of a console..

Sam_Zebian

Maybe 2 cell processors? I'm not sure what the point would be, though. Aren't developers still claiming "we aren't even using the system to the full potential yet" ? And 2010 is a joke. More like 2012.

pj_rage

@Hellicus: I just like making shit up like blogs.

Kspraydad

2010? I'll throw my PS3 through sony's front window. Not that I even own more than 1 game but that is a shorter life span than a jar of mayo.

PS3 is just a nice media center for me anyway, so on second thought, bring on 3.5

shalegac

@7raczyk: Yah I really think 3rd time is the charm for Microsoft. They are going to conquer the next generation once and for all.

mikecoscia

@Chester_Copperpot: Come on, this is Sony we are talking about. They will probably try to release Green Ray or something on PS4 and use it as a trojan horse to make people think that its mainstream. Works everytime.

Optimus-Prime

@VakeroRokero: No..... 1 core with 8 SPU's, one of which is diabled leaving seven operative SPU's; all of which have to communicate with the single core. This can create a bottleneck with sloppy coding which is why the PS3 is harder to code for.

robinandtami

Nobody mentioned that to maintain hardware compatibility for all the PS3 specially crafted codepaths, they must use the same architecture even though the cell is not really suitable for games?

I doubt it is really possible to transit to other architectures due to the move Sony made this generation. It will only get harder to emulate the more complex processors. Changing to other architectures will mean making a entirely new console, since I doubt it is possible to emulate the cell within a 5-10yrs timeframe.

JaLooNz

I doubt this is true... I don't believe Sony will replace the PS3 within the next two years with a new model, they'd be stupid to do so before taking full advantage of the current generation. If they do come out with a new model, it would be much smarter to have it be an improved version of the PS3, and everything that runs on the new one should be backwards compatible to the PS3 or people are going to be pissed

ilves

Well... The PS3 is still something upcoming for me. Or else, somehting that never was. How come thay want to release another one when PS3 hasn't fulfilled its part on the market?

geodesigner

...and I bet it won't be backward-compatible.

bassnote

They said the PS3 was supposed to last 10 years. I guess they switched their motto. I think that the PS3 and PSP are both commercial disappointments when compared to the PSX and PS2.

Young.Shaka

this is all thanks to nintendo. i've been expecting that for the next gen consoles, all 3 companies will be busy finding the cheapest duct tape to bind the current gen consoles together. just like nintendo did with wii. i honestly thinks sony innovated with cell processor, except that nobody appreciates it, not the developers, nor the consumers. in effect, as a result of wii's success, the natural course of action the gaming industry is going to take is towards CASUAL GAMING HEAVEN, where shovelwares is enough make tons of money and no developer would bother with effort anymore.

SaryuEurymachus

@surfer88: The problem is by 2010 or 2011, when the next Xbox comes out and can do 1080p with every game, the PS3 will look antiquated. Sony has to either keep with the graphics crown route, or concede that to Microsoft and go compete with Nintendo.

IRONF1ST

Probably they will just up the clock speed by a Ghz or 2, add a couple of SPE and maybe bump the cache up.

The cell isn't really what holds the PS3 back in terms of graphical prowess anyway (assuming a dev knows his way around the machine, a very big assumption), it's the lack of RAM, 128MB, and the weak GPU, think Nvidia 7800 GTX with 128 MB of RAM.

IRONF1ST

This has to be the worst post I've ever seen on Giz. There's a report that Sony is going to reuse the Cell architecture for the PS4, so that means Sony's given up on competing with M$ on console specs? Do you actually think they're going to use the exact same processir as in the PS3? Just because it's a Cell hardly means it will be identical. A $400 Dell and a $3000 Alienware can both have a Core 2 Duo CPU, so does that mean there's no difference in performance? Apparently so.

GiraldoOgodai

That sounds logical. Obviously it won't be the same chip slapped in there; there will be an upgrade. Maybe we'll even get the 8th SPU enabled? Really, the PS3 has too much stuff packed into it this go around, so keeping the basics next time around will keep the price down to, idk, reasonable? Though let's remember, the PS3 is expensive, not over priced.

SaravatiDanaus

Funny, the IBM cell slide deck I am looking at shows the new cell processor in the PS4. I am assuming thats what they mean by 'PS(4)' notation where every other spot on the chart is assigned to some IBM specific incarnation.

earthling

If this rumor is true, whatever happened to Sony's proclamation that the PS3 had a "10-year lifespan"? I sense a dumb rumor...

Sgt. Bilbo

@Sam_Zebian: The Cell Processor is a much higher equivalent CPU than the other consoles use. XBOX 360 uses a slightly modified version of the old Apple G5 PowerPC processors. Technically speaking, cell processors could very well be the future.

imTheKing

@prouted: And someone that uses M$ can talk about propaganda?!?!

Necroscope

@GiraldoOgodai: No, yours was the worst post ever on Giz. First you postulate that sony will not use the exact same processor. Then, to support your argument, you site a case where the exact same processor is used in two widely differently performing machines.

And what's with the 'M$'? Why not use '$ony'? Just shows that you are a Sony homer.

Necroscope

What's unbelievable about the PS4 using the same cell processor? Understand, the cell processor is leaps and bounds ahead of any other console processor on the market.

The upgrade would be in the form of a new GPU, which is the low point of the PS3. I couldn't see any bottleneck issues with the GPU and Cell Processor, unless the GPU is out-of-this-world amazing.

ALSO:
Any lame-brain who says this should be dubbed the PS3.5 should check their history. The GameCube has essentially the same processor as the Wii, or should I call it the GameCube 1.5?

Now I'm off to play my PS3, stare at my Wii and wait for my xBox to come back home after a Texas vacation :P

Nato!

I know the Cell is Sony's thing, but why has no one used an X86 processor? A modified Core i7 or something down the road from Intel or AMD would be extremely powerful, especially in contrast with 3 PPC G5 chips which have an architecture from 2003 that the Xbox has.

Using an X86 would make it much easier for developers. Consoles already use OpenGL (PS3) and D3D (360), why not add an X86 processor?

I think these are good questions, but I would assume that there is a very good answer from all console makers as to why they have not.

e-friend

Because of the nature of the cell processor they could simply add more cells, a better performing general processor core, and an upgraded GPU, top all of that with some memory upgrades. All that combined with whatever the existing technology there is at that time (ie. faster memory), and you have a much better performing system with an architecture that developers will already know how to use. It could also be 100% backward compatible with the PS3 without added hardware.

This, if it turns out this way, would be a win win. It done properly they could make a system with the power one would expect from a PS4 (not PS3.5) at a low price from the get go.

cduran01

@imTheKing: Man, you typed some words there, but they made no sense. What does 'higher equivalent' mean?

"XBOX 360 uses a slightly modified version of the old Apple G5 PowerPC processors" -- No, the XBOX 360 uses a 3.2 GHz PowerPC Tri-Core Xenon. It was designed by IBM, not Apple, and is, I believe exclusive to the 360. The chip is based on IBM's PowerPC instruction set architecture. According to Wikipedia, "PowerPC is a RISC instruction set architecture created by the 1991 Apple-IBM-Motorola alliance, known as AIM." So, perhaps that is where you got confused.

Necroscope

@surfer88: You've had a PS3 for a year and have not purchased a single game and you think you're a majority? Right. I bought a car last year and haven't driven it yet and I'm a majority too.

cygnusx8

I would think the PS3 would first have to hit it's graphic peak before you can 'tweak' it up.

Kayonesoft

All sony really needs to do is separate their console enough from MS that PS3 games are distinctly 'better'.

If I were them I would be aiming for a Cell processor with about a dozen cores, 3 GiB of system RAM, a GTX 360 ish video card (as in a next gen mid range part to replace the GTX260, ideally DX11) with ~700 MiB of VRAM, and move to regular desktop hard drives not this notebook crap they're using.

That would be fully BC with the existing PS3, and PS3 dev tools, but would open up a lot more processing power. It would be a bit of a mess to be sure, but right now sony is getting smacked because the PS3 is too close to the 360, you can't force exclusives, nor can you claim your version is somehow better. Basically anything the cell processor could get you is lost because it's not enough more powerful to justify radically different versions of games for the PS3 vs 360.

They need to make the PS4 a step up in power from the 360 the way the PS3/360 are a step up in power from the Wii.

Then they need to open their wallets and get more, and better exclusives.

On a more behind the scenes note, it would probably be in their interests to get into the OpenGL specification process and thow their considerable weight behind modern ideas.

sirsri

@surfer88: What on Earth makes you think you are in the majority by buying a gaming console and not purchasing a game for it yet within a year?

Lavallee017

OMGz its gonna be 2 PS3s duct-taped 2gethr~!!!!!!!!!111111111111oneoneone

On a serious note, so much for the "10-year lifespan", huh, Sony?

HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak

Yeah this reeks of BS. Sony can't be THAT stupid to A: Use the same proc in the PS4 or B: To launch the PS4 in 2010 after touting it as a 10 year machine so hard. This HAS to be internet BS. I would have expected more out of Giz to even post something this ridiculous.

Mr.SithNinja

the PS3 hasn't been taken full advantage of, its so friggin powerful... this is absolutely fine, I'd like to see what they come up with

giyad

@cygnusx8: I bought one game, but never finished it. But I do love my blu-ray player.

I know not every PS3 owner uses the console primarily as a blu-ray player; however reading as many a/v tech forums as I do; I also know that there are many people out there who did indeed purchase a PS3 SOLELY because it was the cheapest, best quality, 2.0 compliant blu-ray player available. I don't think they make up a majority of PS3 owners, but I'd be willing to bet they make up at least 20% of PS3 owners.

robinandtami

Sounds like a rumor, or maybe a slim version of the PS3.

internetzlol

@shalegac:

please, sell your PS3. You'd probably benefit more from buying one of sony's blu-ray players or AV setups than owning the PS3 you own now. If there is only game you can find to enjoy with your ps3, even at this point, then you are not a gamer.

Jitty

@SaryuEurymachus:

Sad, but probably true. Everyone was shown that you could make a cheap console with relatively little hardware improvement and outsell hardware that was vastly improved. Both MS and sony will probably try to "innovate" in some way instead, while still keeping the hardware relatively cheap and unchanged.

Jitty

@drocha184: why not? the original cell design called for a 4ghz output with something like 12 spu's. That should be plenty for the next console as long as they step up the graphics card a good amount

lilaliendog

Wow, I sure hope all the guys/gals on this site saying this is will be a PS3.5 aren't 360 fans. Hi pot, I'm kettle!!!!

Anyway, the CP has already seen advancement. For those saying the PS4 wouldn't be a decent update are also saying Pentium 3 -> Pentium 4 isn't an upgrade either. After all it's still x86 based!

The CP will continue to grow and get more powerful just like all other CPU's.

JEmlay

Microsoft's inability to utilize Blu-ray has hampered all cross-platform games in which DVDs are now woefully insufficient.

The PS3, 360, and Wii are all failures in that their massive technological asymmetry created such enormous programmer challenges in developing games for all three systems, their final products are often compromises; ultimately inferior to anything designed exclusively for the PS3.

Under the circumstances, Sony basically has to wait for everyone else to catch up before innovating again. Because Microsoft is such a lazy company that despises their customers even more than Sony, they may have to wait a long time.

bmoredlj

@JEmlay: I'm not sure what the 360 has to do with anything, seeing as how the 360 actually switched processor families from the original XBox (x86 -> PowerPC).

Still, I do wonder how many of the folks defending this move are the same ones that bitch about the Wii having a processor from the same line as the Gamecube... the whole practice of completely redesigning the architecture for each new console generation always seemed a bit wasteful to me. I mean, why wouldn't you just put in faster, more powerful versions of what came before? Especially in this day and age, when backwards compatibility is more and more important... Glad to see Sony's thought processes on this catching up to Nintendo's. :)

HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak

@MacBandit: The GPU in the PS3 is a customized Geforce 7900. That's going to be pretty weak by 2010, so they can improve performance a lot with some simple upgrades.

And of course, that means it should be fully backwards-compatible.

FuturePastNow

@robinandtami: It's 3.14%. See! I can throw around meaningless numbers too.

berribrand

@surfer88: "and I know I'm the majority."

Based on.... your extensive scientific market research that you conducted?

berribrand

2010?! That's only two years away! Too soon! The PS3 games are just getting good!

navstar

So four years after the $500 PS3 comes out they'll release the PS4? This just sealed it as the last Playstation machine I'm ever purchasing. I want to say it, I want to since I supported the great gaming machine that the PS2 was, but, "Fuck you Sony for the PS3", it's such a shitty games machine, but a good Blu-ray player.

kylo4

@cowpop: You have any information that Home 1.0 will be out by then?

HonusWScruggs

@berribrand: I quite clearly said in my response that it was a GUESS, to anyone that can read english anyway.

robinandtami

@Zlevee:

i havent dont the research but i've heard in certain ways the wii is basically a gamecube, an in other ways its much more powerful than a gamecube.

but i digress...

nintendo took there machine and put lots of research and effort into developing their next gen machine. what they didnt do is just moderately upgrade the parts with little to no effort and call it their next gen. this is exactly what it sounds like sony is doing.

it wouldnt bug me as much if they called the ps 3.1 or 3.5 or whatever because in my eyes that translates to "we're just doing this to make sure our product keeps up with anything that MS is doing, and when we're ready, we'll release the real ps4." by launching it as the ps4, they will be slandering their own name in my opinion. they will be saying that they put the same amount of effort into this product, as they did to all the previous playstations...which is clearly a lie

(sigh) if this turns out to be what i think it will, then the very least they could offer a steep discount to those who have already purchased a ps3 (as they did with the original psp)

jrghoull

@JEmlay:
360 - No upgrade in resolution technology until the refresh. To date, no upgrade in audio technology. To date, no upgrade in media technology..... The 360 is nothing but a CPU/GPU update "for the most part."

So, if that's all the PS4 is then who cares? Like you said, the Wii is the same way. There is nothing wrong with this. As long as the all the little things also follow along like advancements in architecture bus...blah blah blah...

JEmlay

There are so many things they can do while staying with the Cell architecture. Add more PPEs (perhaps two PPE cores), increase the number of SPEs (double them after a die shrink or two), increase the local SPE cache (currently 256KB per), etc.

The Cell used in the PS3 was manufactured on a 90nm process. Other Cell designs use a 65nm process. Current CPUs from Intel use a 45nm process, with a drop to 32nm expected in about a year.

A die built on a 32nm process would take up only 12.6% the space. That is to say, that by 2010, assuming they could fit eight times more SPEs (or 64 of them instead of 8) onto a chip the same size.

I don't think that will happen, though. I think we'll see them stay conservative and use a 45nm process, which enables four times the transistor count. That would allow them to do 32 SPEs, 2 PPEs, and use the leftover space that the other two PPEs would have used for spares to improve yields (say, design it with 3 PPEs and 34 SPEs to handle failures). I also think that they'll make a few architectural tweaks to get more performance out of things.

guspaz

@Necroscope: Dude Apple used IBM for years to make their chips. The PowerPC chip was originally used in Apple products. They just added a core to it. its a modified version. Do you remember when Microsoft accidentally got caught using 2 G5 PowerMacs during their firm game preview. They were streaming the game off of dual g5 towers.

imTheKing

Duh. It's just 2 PS3s duct-taped together! *ducks and hides*

SilverStar95

Just remember Cell was designed to be scalable, the current Cell is only 1/4th the full Cell concept for the current design. It was made so that you could link up 4 Cell chips onto a single core and have it function that way, this is where the initial 1Tflop performance numbers came from. They can produce that chip if they so want to but Cell development hasn't stopped they are improving and adding to it all the time it's just a case of waiting until these changes get put into the next complete version of Cell.

Jabjabs

This isn't a big deal. They can use the same technology, but expand it. Think of the power of dual core and quad core processors. Are the individual cores power houses in themselves? Add more cores, better communication between the cores (the ppc processor?), and the rumor doesn't say ANYTHING about the RSX... the actual GPU of the ps3. Another thing to think about is: Where the hell are our 5ghz processors? 8Ghz? Instead, we went with MORE cores and lower speeds. But in the end, the processors can do a lot more work.

ConroyGalolahere

its not true in the sony press conference it was said that the play-station has a 10 year life-span so since the ps3 was released on "November 17, 2006" (I'm not too sure about this date) the ps4 should be realesed around November 17, 2016.

Izy2091

I just dont like the fact that the PS3 is not "Complete" and there are already talks of a PS4.. I guess I was just hoping that i wouldnt have to buy another console anytime soon.. :( what they need to focus on is getting out knew games all in 1080p and not a PS4..

kayno

I think Sony should do away with the Square, X, Circle, Triangle on their controller and use more complex shapes to make the system more sophisticated. Or they could just simple quit using the same controller they've been pushing since 97' and come up with something thats not horrible. Whichever works best for them.

OrvaMongoose

i'd rather be a psx fanboy then a xbox douche bag. but thats neither here nor there... we do not need a new psx already! its only been 2 years! ps2 lasted 6! NES lasted 6! nobody has even made a game that can run to PS3's full power. maybe if they didnt decide to do something stupid like make GTA4 for xbox too, we could have saw something amazing.....

ZerounAdephagia