LEDs generate a lot of heat?!? Compared to what? An ice cube? That's one of the benefits of LEDs, that they don't generate heat because the power/light ratio is so efficient.

There are instances where a lot of heat is generated, but that's for industrial applications where the bulbs are ridiculously overdriven (also shortening lamp life)to boost the brightness. Not what they are currently intended for. It's like saying if you overclocked you computer to twice the spec and then getting angry because your computer exploded. For general use, they beat everything else hands down, if JUST for the fact that the solid-state components means that it will work well in an environment with a lot of vibrations (CFLs don't and incandescents will just break its filament)

And if they DID use an overdriven LED outside of the module, is there any better heatsink than SPACE? No, really, IS THERE?

impliedsurprise

I can't believe you were trying to put a space ship against pyramids yesterday. You don't see pyramids having lighting problems!

Joseph

I see alot of LED's BIN on eBay....might have to check on International (space station) shipping.

Y2KGTP

Open a window, we have this thing in our solar system that creates free light. We call it the Sun.

Tweak

now come on guys lets not poke fun but instead try to figure out how to make light of the situation, budum ching.

lilaliendog

@BigRocket: As opposed to lightbulbs that produce mostly heat and a little light on the side? If an LED's power supply isn't designed by idiots it should barely get warm.

dingus

Lightbulbs? Are you kidding? It's from Japan and it uses Lightbulbs instead of LED's?

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE!?

Klappstuhl

LED's generate a lot of heat. Not on the surface, but on the circuit board. So maybe that's why there are no LEDs in space, with the risk of fire in an oxygen rich environment with no feasible way to escape.

BigRocket

I guess JAXA aren't early adopters of new technologies? You know, they even make LED bulbs that are in the SHAPE of regular light bulbs so as to trick people in thinking that they're using the "normal" stuff....

[www.eternaleds.com]

impliedsurprise

If it gets too dark to run their experiments, they could always just light a fire.

Sora57

Half in less than a year? They have other problems besides just the light bulbs

cardboredbox

How many scientists does it take to change a light bulb?

Sora57

This is what happens when you take a constellation of different engineering teams, with different work standards, different engineering philosophies, and different political atmospheres. You get shit that just won't work *quite* right, no matter what you do.

DisposableInterloper

@impliedsurprise: There is no reason to use those. Why convert from DC power (the solar cells) to AC power, and then back to DC. Plus things on the ISS are built to use 120V DC power.

Electrical devices built for the ISS are designed to use the station's 120-volt DC power, but devices from Earth such as portable CD players or electric razors must be adapted to this unusual power system

from [science.nasa.gov]

Hell, they even talk about what they use to transfer the excess heat away.

Log1c

weve come a long way...

[oldcomputers.net]

nystreetfilms

@impliedsurprise: Space is a bad heatsink. In fact, vaccuum does not conduct ANY heat away, which is why traditional heatsinks do not work in space. Radiation is the worst form of heat transfer.

LED's which generate enough light to be used instead of CCFL's draw a large amount of current, and have a high heat density. Which on Earth is fine, because just plop a heatsink on there and the air we breath does a fine job of keeping it relatively cool. Now they probably don't want to dump excess heat into the cabin, hence the CCFLs.

Log1c

I really wish we were doing more with the ISS.

Supposed to support 7 people if we hadn't of scuttled the Crfew Return Vehicle. :(

strider_mt2k

@Log1c: You are absolutely correct. Haha, I jumped the gun there. I was associating "the brrr in space" to heat transfer, but totally forgot about the SIGG vacuum flask I have sitting right next to me :) I just keep thinking about those space movies where the guy's visor gets broken, and his face freezes into a look of shock.

Regarding the AC power, DC-DC transfer would definitely be more efficient (so perhaps not THIS specific bulb for space - don't think they're rated for 1900 miles above ground anyway), but I'm sure they are DC-variants of LED bulbs as LEDs inherently run on DC anyway, right? The flashlights and little toys are all DC (use batteries), and for the light bulbs, they have AC-DC inverters inside to convert it.

@DisposableInterloper: Sounds surprisingly similar to something mentioned in the Bible, about a Babel Tower? Maybe God DOES live in space?

impliedsurprise

@impliedsurprise:
LEDs are not as efficient as a flourescent tubes, which is what is being used on the ISS. In terms of Luminous efficacy, LEDs are a few steps behind flourescents. Additionally, in space LEDs do not have a medium to act as a heatsink. Finally, there are no current LEDs that are certified for use in space. Many are in development, but none have completed the certification. This is a different certification from Mil-Spec.

BigRocket

@DisposableInterloper: Even in this multinational environment, the need for one head project manager should be apparent. At at some point, people have to realize the need for a single person to be where the buck stops. If you dont, you get, well this very situation. Its a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

Curves

@BigRocket: Considering the amount of solar radiation that can hit that thing, I would think that it'd be a non-issue. I mean, they really don't generate THAT much heat compared with things like computers.

I think it has more to do with the technology that was available when this thing was built. However, as was mentioned above, they make LEDs into fluorescent form factors. WTF NASA?

lpranal

@DisposableInterloper: I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you can't effectively test the space-worthiness of a product without actually sending it to space, a need for light before even testing what lights work best, and the more frequent usage compared to shuttle lights which previously hadn't stayed in space nearly as long.

rjp

@BigRocket: The space station has a liquid cooling system, which could be used with the strip-style LEDs pretty easily.

On the other hand, while LEDs technically have a longer "lifespan", they do diminish in brightness over time, so their useful lifetime is significantly less than the rated life expectancy.

Yeah, I can see why NASA is sticking with fluorescents for now...

lpranal

@rjp:
Even so, a given team of engineers has its own quirks and biases. Similar flaws would be rearing their ugly heads, and they'd be caught and fixed more effectively. Toss in a bizarrely huge number of fairly independent engineering teams, however, and the number of things that could go wrong suddenly balloons.

@Curves:
I think a more effective solution would be to adopt the FOSS model of development. All eyes are on everyone, everyone contributes where their talents suit them best, and everyone is led by an oligarchy that checks and balances itself. A single leader that reigns over teams that develop their own modules more or less independently would be far more cumbersome.

@impliedsurprise:
In a nutshell, that story about the Tower of Babel had everyone working together under the same language and culture until the Jewish deity got pissed off for no logical reason and decided to divide them. Supposedly, that's how language came about. In this age of modern science, I would hope people would be a bit more enlightened than to believe something like that - at the very least, not literally.

The situation here is quite the opposite: people from different cultural, corporate, and political backgrounds are coming together to make a hodge-podge contraption. I forgot what it's called, but there is an unspoken rule in design and in engineering that the more human resources you invest into a task, the more progress will slow.

DisposableInterloper

@DisposableInterloper: I think the saying is "Too many cooks in the kitchen...."

And the Babel association was a very superficial one. I was just making a point that if everyone isn't on the same page.....oh nevermind.

impliedsurprise

@DisposableInterloper: you might be an atheist / agnostic, however that's not even an atheist interpretation of the story. I think you're leaving out the part about people believing they could build a giant ladder into heaven to circumvent having to be morally accountable.

lpranal

@krystar:
Glow-in-the-dark is all but worthless. Litrosphere paint, on the other hand... well, that's a whole different story.

[www.treehugger.com]

DisposableInterloper

our astronauts totally need some lightsticks and glow in the dark paint.

like this stuff
[glowinc.com]

krystar

@krystar: We could send up some ecstasy too and they can host the craziest rave EVAR!

cardboredbox

Just go to Home Depot...oh wait...

Gibberish

Man, if the school can't get a new bulb in a few months, how long are they gonna take to get to SPACE?

Con Seannery

@lpranal:
I said it was in a nutshell, and yes, I am a non-believer, but I was raised Christian. There is nothing about skirting personal responsibility. It's all about humanity wanting to make a name for itself with a monumental undertaking. Then God, not wanting people to be able to just walk right up to Heaven made a big poo-poo on their project. No, he couldn't have just put up a barrier between his kingdom and that tower, he had to tear it all down and render people unable to communicate.

Genesis 11:4-6
And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children built. And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do; and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

DisposableInterloper

I can't... sorry!!!!!! Yes I can believe that. With all the LED technology out there, they decided to use outdated florescent lights. Just unbelievable. Curtis Billing England

AlexandraJenkins

@impliedsurprise:
After some poking around, I found it. It's called Brooke's Law.

DisposableInterloper

I am sure that these bulbs cost a few hundred dollars a piece. but if they spent the 5 bucks on some walmart bulbs they would be good for many years.. lol

aeroworks

Is it just me, or has anyone else experienced about a 30% failure rate in compact fluorescent bulbs?

FritzLaurel

I mean with all US economy falling apart and endless spending, I am not blaming ISS at all. Russia can't send rockets every week. Not when Palin wants to make funny faces at Russia.

vgart

How many astronauts does it take to change 21 light bulbs? well all of them i guess

VideoVampire

What's the cleanup procedure for a broken CFL in space?

[www.epa.gov]

Just thought I'd throw it out there....

impliedsurprise

Help! I'm in a nutshell. how did I get into this nutshell? Look at the size of this bloody great big nutshell -What sort of nut has a shell like this? This is crazy!

+ Watch video

Garth Knight

just call the Coleman company they make fluorescent lanterns and all kinds of power mate power supplies well they are made in China anyway I am sure the Chinese will have no shortage of space camping gear we should look at the commercially available equipment so one day we mail be able to tailgate party with the space hibachi GO KIBO CHO SAGOY let there be light and hope SPACEMAN

ReedVitulus