@The Real 31: @The Real 31: I'm glad the world is finally starting to see this.

Once again, the issue is not Vista...it's Apple.

So if Steve releases a major update to one of the most popular devices on the market, but has it fataly crash the most popular form of personal computing (not his) currently on the market...the same computer he's built his current success off of trying to discredit and insult...then releases a "fix" a couple days later...then he's done more than his witty little commercials can ever do.

Hyperplasia

No problems here either on Vista 64-bit. And I got iTunes 8 immediately after it was available. I've also got an iPod Touch 1st Gen and it's had no problems with the update, either. Weird how some vista users had problems and others didn't. I would think something like this would be more widespread.

davidfbecker

@The Real 31: Uhm no. Some third party developers (ahem, Apple) are having problems on their end releasing software that are apparently giving consumers problems. Luckily, I have not updated iTunes because I wanted to hear about how much more bloatware would be added to an already crappy program.

berribrand

So are you saying that maybe the are some problems with Vista that relate to the drivers released by third parties? Huh.

The Real 31

If you are a windows user then first step is get rid off any iTunes I did it back in the 4.7 realease. iTunes is one of the worst software ever compiting with the likes realplayer and internet explorer 6.
If you are tied by your iPod then go after sharepod / rockbox

c-sharp

I agree Rabid. They are trying to reinforce the image they've created of Windows sucking.

aclerok

@takashimiike 7: I think they do it on purpose.

Rabid Penguin

@92BuickLeSabre:
im on vista, and, i get shuffle on all my songs.

and no BSOD's neither, mind you, i dont have a HP printer

gymtonic

@92BuickLeSabre: Are you a Windows user? I ask because I'm a Mac user and I haven't had this problem, I usually shuffle through all of my music and so far iTunes 8 has done this as normal.

Late_Night

Yeah I got this last night. Why is Apple software terrible on Windows?

takashimiike 7

May I ask a general iTunes 8 question here? I may? Why thank you...

...has anyone else noticed that if you just "play" your music library on shuffle that it now just shuffles within one artist? And to really shuffle all of your music you have to use "party shuffle" which, to be honest, I don't much like largely because it's called "party shuffle"?

92BuickLeSabre

Poor Vista users, this is the last thing they needed!

Late_Night

They should um, test this stuff out first.

General Halfshaftery

I didn't have an issue to begin with.

dre9812002

@Wavel: It's easy to think that, but in all reality they can't possibly be intentionally releasing bad code. That would be grounds for a massive, world ending, universe collapsing lawsuit. From Microsoft lawyers. Yeah, those guys? They don't fuck around.

But I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Apple doesn't put nearly as much effort into Windows QA as they put into the Mac versions of their stuff. That'll have to change pretty quick, though, for obvious reasons.

Tracert

@delmuerte: I'm actually one of the people who didn't have any problems at all, and I've got the same setup—Wolfdale with Vista 64-bit. I haven't had any problems with Vista at all, actually, on either of my machines.

matt buchanan

I just recently built myself a new machine with 64-bit Wolfdale procs and installed Vista in order to take advantage of it and was having this same problem, just BSoDing not even using an iPod, just post-install.

Honestly, I thought it was Vista and cursed MS for it repeatedly rather than blaming Apple (who also deserves many curses even prior to this).

delmuerte

Haha, i hope apple did it on purpose. This makes me laugh :]

Rhew

Saw this problem on a machine that had an HP printer connected to it... turn off the printer and reconnect the iPhone and no bsod. And I tend to believe Apple does this on purpose. How many end-users are going to take the time to figure that it's an Apple driver causing the problem, and NOT vista!?!

Wavel

I'm sure we'll see the "I'm a Mac/PC" commercial next week with PC complaining about how he can't install software like iTunes without crashing because Vista is so terrible.

Colage

Having n problems at all. Tried replicating the error but nothing happens.

guess I have one of those miracle vista 64 setups.

@OMG! Apple Stinks!: I got 4GB and vista feels great! I just bought the sticks a few months ago so I can't afford to throw those away to get 8GB... but I'm happy, I can use Mayaa dn photoshop with no problem.

VakeroRokero

I haven't had memory usage issues with iTunes either, though I've been watching closely expecting it.

Ike_Skelton

It's clear this problem results from Apple's poor QA for Windows development as well as insufficient user notification on software updates. Still, most people experiencing the problem will surely blame Vista, and not Apple. Of course, if Microsoft ported the Zune software to Macs, and a problem came up, Microsoft would get all the blame. One starts to feel a little sorry for the folks in Redmond, who seem to increasingly be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

mrweatherbee

No problems here except for Itunes runs dog a** slow now and takes up almost 600MB of memory.

Memory leaks always cheer me up.

booksy

I'm using Vista 64 and iTunes works fine. ...Well, as fine as iTunes can work, cause, you know, iTunes sucks balls at everything except shuffle (I use party shuffle, though I suppose going to general library and hitting shuffle should do the same?) and plain old playing music. Want to update library to include a new CD? Too bad, you're going to have to hassle with it.

Ike_Skelton

Well, an interesting development. While writing a comment I thought I'd skip to a different song in iTunes. You can guess what happened next. Really, you can...

So after that BSOD I rebooted and even before the windows logo had appeared on screen I got antoher freakin' BSOD. What the hell? Windows wasn't even done booting yet. It's the second time in 2 days that I got a second BSOD even before I got into windows. This started after I installed iTunes 8.

I could remove it and re-install the updated version but then I'd lose all of my podcasts and pre-sets, again. I know we windows users would love to put the blame on Apple but I can't help but feel pissed towards MS. Vista has been nothing but a big fat dissapointment for me. I might just go back to XP. How important can DX10 and a side-bar really be?

Nathan Drake

Do you think AMVETS will accept a few ipods?

shamoononon has a hebetudinous dog

@Tracert: Right now, I have a mental image of Apple coders walking around figuring out ways to futz up their products.

They couldn't screw the pooch any more if they were a bitch in heat at the Ron Jeremy Iditerod.

WTF?! Ponies!

@delmuerte:
@matt buchanan: Just make sure to max out your RAM. Vista x64 on 4GB of RAM is a wasted install. I still don't think that x64 is a home product yet, but that's because the home market is a laptop market and none of the big OEMs have gotten off their asses to program the drivers.

Once the OEMs do their part, the program support will follow.

WTF?! Ponies!

Gad damn it, I have Vista, I was waiting until Apple fixed everything until I download it, and now I can't even get a stupid 8.0 version but have to settle for a stupid 7.7 version? WTF?!

I own an iPod you know.

Glare

No probs on Vista or Mac. Well, no big problems like BSODs, memory leaks or otherwise fatal issues.

I went back to 7.7 though for both machines, the "improvements" are not at all what I need (more bloat), Genius recommendations are a joke (under Top Songs you are missing, all songs listed that ive checked are already in the Library, albeit NOT ripped in iTunes). The Album view mode is an improvement, but not worth it for me (I browse by songs).

Lizard_King

Maybe this is all part of marketing. To purposely release software for Windows that doesn't work quite right. The idea is genius.

"Look, iTunes 8 works just fine on a MAC, that PC fellow, well good luck!"

It does make Windows look like crap...and makes Macs look better.

CutePuppyz

@VakeroRokero: The reason I mention it is because you're using 64-bit code. 64-bit apps take up about 25%-40% more memory than their 32-bit equivalent. At the end of the day, you're left with a memory bump of only about 500MB.

If you've got a desktop computer and the slots on the motherboard for the memory chips, max them out. Chip prices have plummeted. Just put your old ones on Craigslist.

OMG! Apple Stinks!

Shuffle works fine for me. My issue is with how iTunes won't do a better job of updating its library when I add a new CD to my music folder. It needs some option to import the entire folder, but to NOT add duplicates. Say I add a few new CD's to my music folder, I don't want to add each individual CD folder, I want to click my general Music folder where all my music is stored and have it update and add the new albums, but not add everything else AGAIN!

Ike_Skelton

Yeah, I've got Vista x64 and 4 gigs of RAM and it runs like a dream.

Ike_Skelton

Worked fine here and not seeing the memory leaks.

If only Vista would still hibernate, it stopped doing that a few months ago and I can't seem to get it to hibernate at all anymore. Ugh!

Imports? No problem, not sure what Ike_Skelton is having to hassle with. Shuffle? There is an option under preferences to shuffle by album, by song, or by artist - change your options.

Oh wait, I took the wrong tone in this. Let me try again: Vista sucks and it is all Apples fault!

There, I think that is better.

maztec

@OMG! Apple Stinks!: x64 is becoming more common I had a sales rep buy a 64-bit XPS, sadly all of our companies in house software is still 16 bit code and wouldn't work on it.

booksy

@OMG! Apple Stinks!: i've got Vista x64 on my Toshiba laptop, it's flawless. Also have it on two desktops at home, both running well.

Granted, I went to foobar2000 to get rid of the craptastic bloated memory-hog that is iTunes.

Norcross

I'm just amazed Windows still get BSoD. Wasn't Vista supposed to be a new OS from the ground up?

kahri

I'm a Vista (32 not 64) user...and have absolutely no with iTunes 8.0....but if you can help me with my Spore install...well there's a problem child.

DCGaymer

@Hyperplasia: "The issue is not Vista"?

Wha? How about instead of the OS taking a dump they display a nice message saying "Unsupported driver"? How the F can you say that a BSOD is not an issue with Vista?

broho

Go figure... The death star corrupts Vista to sell more computers. Maybe that is what Bill Gates was talking about in the new commercial...

Sticky230

There sure is a lot of PEBKAC around here...

jinsaotomex4

@kahri: Shure, but it's build upon quicksand so it really doesn't matter where you start. It's always gonna sink.

Nathan Drake

@92BuickLeSabre: I think that's only if you went through the icon/grid view. I had that problem if I played after selecting a single artist.

metalgear08

@Norcross: I'll keep that in mind. It sounds like Toshiba gives good driver support. I just hate the current line of Satellite. The construction feels cheap (compared to my Satellite U205).

OMG! Apple Stinks!

Shady shady shady Apple. Wow.

I would bet they did that on purpose... it would only benefit them if they did so.

BurntToast

". Once again, Apple is using its automatic update process to deliver massive amounts of new software to users, including a device driver that has a long and checkered history of causing the Blue Screen Of Death to appear. And it's delivering this massive payload without even a pretense of proper disclosure and without asking consent from its users."

Yeah and MS is the evil empire....Apple? Nah do what ever you want! So they included a driver that they KNEW caused the problem? For those that wonder why "vista" couldn't display a message ,like "Not a compatible driver"??? Really you just agreed to install a download that INSTALLS things onto your computer FROM a company that KNOWS the driver causes crashes when INSTALLED...and it is "vistas" fault? Yeah MS should have a message for other companies screw ups since they know that Apple would be so sloppy in thier programming to put in a driver they KNOW will cause a problem?

Seriously is Apple a cult? Because they seem to incur not one shread of responsibility for anything stupid they do.

max11221

Apple's solution: Buy a mac

tkohrs2002

@TommySez: It's not the application that's causing the bsod... it's the DRIVER that's installed. A kernel level driver. If you write crap drivers, yes, you can crash the OS.

Wavel

Quite simply, if an app like iTunes can take down your OS, then your OS is indeed sucky. This is embarrassing for Apple, but more so for Microsoft.

TommySez

@broho: It's not an "unsupported driver", it's an "under tested crappy kernel level driver written by apple". You want the OS to notify you of that??

Wavel

Just buy a damn Mac, No BSOD or spinning beach ball.

BiZarRroBALlmeR

@BiZarRroBALlmeR:

Just kernel panics.

No excuse for this considering Vista users will be at least 15% of the iPod customer base. Unfortunately, Apple suck at coding anything other than for their walled garden.

Drummer_Boy

@TommySez: How can it be more embarrassing to MS? If you weren't up so far Job's ass you'd realize iTunes is a piece of shit on windows. Not only does it break an OS, it's dumb as fuck, and interface is even dumber. I have a dual core laptop, with a decent video card, yet when i run the stupid visualizer itunes manages to bring my computer to a crawl...none of the media players i've used before have done that...so you are right itunes rocks.

Ignorant fool.

Dudemeister on the Run

@BiZarRroBALlmeR: My college just bought about £15,000 worth of Macs. None of themw ork at all. We have around 300 PCs and they all work like clockwork.

Collins1

@broho: Um, it does, but there are different error codes for every driver error. When Vista takes a dump upon boot, its basicly telling you "hey, your driver is making me not start up." but with more technical terms, so, you know, you could maybe fix it.

But hey, its ok, I get it: you obviously don't know how a real computer runs.

SomeoneUKno

One must wonder... why is it that drivers for Vista are consistently bad? Is it really that all these 3rd party companies are all totally inept? Or does it have something to do with the way Vista drivers are made. I mean, at one point the easier answer is that Vista is difficult to write drivers for.

Mark 2000

I've had one problem with Vista drivers, and that was when I first installed Vista on my old XP laptop and had to download new from NVidia. Every other program I've ever tried to download has been fine. And I'm now using Vista 64 on a new machine.

This sounds to me like bad programming on Apple's part.

DGUW

@matt buchanan: Weird. Tried the installing it again, so far no problems.

delmuerte

@Collins1: so they just got one, what a deal!

Ephemera

@BiZarRroBALlmeR: "Just buy a damn Mac, No BSOD or spinning beach ball"

The most commom animation I see on my Mac is the spinning beach ball. Ironically, as I was reading the comments for this blog entry, I plugged in a new USB drive to use with Time Machine on a newly updated Leopard iMac. I did not get a BSOD, or GSOD (grey screen of death), but after inserting the brand new drive, the system froze. The only way to unfreeze the system was to hold the power button in, and reboot. The screen did not turn grey, or blue, but the result was the same, a forced reboot.

jimtravis

@jimtravis:I guess no OS is perfect ;)

Nathan Drake

I fear DRM is partly to blaim in this situation. If the IPOD connected via the USB using a standard drive/HID signed driver, we would not have seen these crashes. From what I understand, that was too easy to hack so Apple produced a special encrypted usb driver. The problem is that this driver has to operate in kernel mode, which is risky on any OS.

Good coding practices dictate that you should avoid writing software that operates in kernel mode instead of the safer user mode. Kernel mode allows more tricks (like fancy DRM) but also bypasses the OS's ability to isolate bugs.

Most of the incidents reported involved an HP printer already plugged in. I suspect that when you plugged in the IPOD and activated this new USB transport, it conflicted with the normal USB processes already being used. Since the DRM driver is operating so close to the hardware, the safety features of the OS are bypassed.

If Itunes was DRM-free (like other music stores), then a non-standard driver would not be required. The system would have less junk to process and the IPOD would be more open and exstensible.

gransee

people still use itunes? what century is this?

MuglyTheWorm

*carlitos chuckles to himself*
get over it, windoze users

juddcarlos2003

I don't think that the store-brand foil is doing it. I think that some people need to upgrade their hats to Reynolds Wrap® Super Strength.

someToast

@takashimiike 7: To make look good Leopard, just like the PC vs MAC ads.

Pacha

Conspiracy!!!

Pacha

Schadenfreude anyone?

Statik