Cool, I'm due for a new phone in a couple of months, would like to try out Android.

BiZarRroBALlmeR

The fact that the software is open, that you can install any program that will become available and the possible diversity of hardware are positives.. but can also turn out as negative... interesting maybe for the geeks among us, but for the average consumer just a pain in the butt.

I wish Android all the best; more competition and more innovation is good for everybody.
If successful, Apple will benefit from this because it has a closed platform, others, especially Microsoft will have to work very very hard to keep up.

sos10

Competition is good!

TimurY

Was the bonus reason supposed to be a positive or a negative? I'd guess that's why it's an outlier and not in the list.

Incredible

@cowpop: the pros are very attractive and the cons arent really that bad. Most people will not want it because it isnt an iphone and even more might want it because it IS an iphone.
And about the t-mo 3G network since its still a baby your download speeds will be super good in places where you have 5bars. I want to get my 3G t-mo phone already but hey t-mo's slacking so far.
They do have a couple of 3G phones tho but i want something sexy like the xperia.

SneakerFiend

Im actually very curious about the economics around Android. Is it gonna mean that carriers could feel this was a cheap way to go for basics and the make even more money on it because it didnt cost them anything?

So Android would be a cheap way for big conglomerate assholes to make even more money on the consumer? Hope not.

baandoptager

Thats a fair point. Google are taking the microsoft approach, releasing the OS to many kinds of phones. Wheras apple knows how the software will run on their device, as its hardware is the same for each one (except gps/3g). I hope its good, because theres a lot riding on it

kevanio

I'll wait for the next one to come out and then I'll get it.

Glare

@Pwnage: As far as hype goes, yes I suppose I can agree with that. Public awareness? I think Google will actually manage.

Besides, Google Android is getting promoted on any phone that uses it. This means any phone to come out with Google Android installed becomes an immediate ad for Google.

Metkis

Itll either flop or be bigger than the iphone. I like the wide spread OS on different phones, but i also dont like it. Will i have to pay 700 for a phone because the "2nd class" phones cant handle it with their horrible specs? Itll kind of a contradiction, You can have it on a lot of phones, but not all phones and use everything. Here ill give you the keys to the sports car, you just cant have any gas

Teenagejesus

@takashimiike 7: It's Google, you'll be seeing thousands of ads for it on your favorite websites. If there's anything Google does extremely well it's search and advertisement.

Metkis

takashimiike7 is right, nothing will get as much media hype as steve o's baby...
except of course for steve o's baby

Pwnage

Praise the gods for free, ahem, open source, software!!!

Pwnage

Bonus reason: It's not an iPhone.

Funny. Android probably won't get the same amount of publicity as the iPhone.

takashimiike 7

Its the wild wild west, with its good and bad. Its kinda like that line from Tombstone: "Its true, you are a good woman. Then again, you may be the antichrist."

Mark my words: this will be the first phone with a real, actual, and damaging virus.

loslosbaby

Hmm, an article that doesn't praise the iphone, interesting. But this "Android" thing does seem competitive, hopefully some of those i-fanboys will go screaming over the challenge, hehe..

cowpop

so to sum it all up, if android sucks, blame it on the carriers?

Weihovah

The whole "only on crappy networks" thing is kinda lame.

Metkis

"the gradual devolution of carriers to open, dumb pipes"

that's what they are everywhere else in the world except n. america.

in europe, you can buy any phone and stick any SIM in it and you're on that network.

it boggles my mind that people in n. america still associate a phone (hardware) with a network. who's stopping you from buying an android and sticking an ATT SIM in it? okay, the iPhone is SIM locked but that's a political decision, not a technical one. if you have an non-simlocked iPhone, you can run it on the network of your liking.

HoseHead

well a few of the negative points are kind of non-points.
3) It doesn't matter who carries the android. Once the OS is ported to your device, you can install it. We at XDAdevelopers have been doing this for years w/ windows mobile. It doesn't even mater if the OS is open or closed, we just use the OS as modular. We interchange the radio stack, and hardware profiles. Since Android is open, we can just make the conversion that much more seamless. What's more, most devices will be ported already by the carrier, since most there is a lot of overlap in what devices carriers provide. And lastly, unlocked versions of almost all device specific winmo get's leaked, android will be even more so.

4) This isn't particularly bad either. The fact is, because of android, the number of touch screen phones available to develop on will skyrocket. That's really the bottom line. Non-touch screen devices won't get much benefit from a robust open OS, since the interface is highly limited anyways. Google maps mobile is just about the only real app that deals w/ this issue. Everybody else who writes real apps will just forget about non-touch screen devices.

5) A non-issue. This is an open OS, any missing features will be incorporated very quickly, far more quickly than any other OS. What's more, this is not like winmo, where updating the OS is virtually non-existent, or like the iPhone where if you are willing to pay more, they might fix the bugs.

jkr's bold comment

I'm all for open, and even if I personally didn't have the greatest time with Linux I still wish it well.

However, with SO MANY different distros of Linux floating around doesn't ONE MORE mean that the limited number of developers will now be FURTHER diluted?

I know it's often just(?) a matter of re-compiling from one distro to the other and sometimes that makes it EASIER as the basic skill are still called into play.

I just hope that there will be enough activity by developers on this particular platform to keep it happy and healthy, because it's a great and most worthy concept to be sure.

strider_mt2k

You'll have tons of hardware option.

So, basically hobbyist developers supposed to provide software for the platform without knowing much of anything about the hardware.

Relying too much on developers to fill in features could result in a phone that's not quite totally seamless and consumer-grade

"not quite totally seamless". BUAHAHAHA. I suspect that the results will be almost but not quite entirely unlike usable apps.

Bloodboiler

@Teenagejesus: Well, no. At least in my understanding, it is designed to work on a wide range of devices with a wide range of features and capabilities. So, you probably will be able to use your crappy candybar phone with Android; the experience just won't be as good as the "5-inch capacitive touch media-center, even makes jello" phones out there.

josejuan05

eww, dont put lt. commander data on this... he would be offended, not to mention he has a 17th generation iphone..

johnthevulcan

@HoseHead: I haven't heard of anybody successfully using an iPhone on Verizon or Sprint in North America. Neither use SIM cards (except for certain phones on Verizon, and why those aren't compatible I'm not certain). You're right in that this android phone from TMobile will most likely play nice with my iPhone's ATT SIM, though.

@t3knomanser: Oh good, so it's not just me. I was starting to feel like a spoiled white kid for wanting my iPhone to dual-boot osx and android.

collider

Just for this, I think I'm going to hack my jailbroken iPhone to run Android in a VM.

t3knomanser

@otis123: congratulations, you've just inspired me to continue my treatise on OSX vs windows vs Linux.
[gizmodo.com]
Now let us look at the childhood years of OSX, the iPhone years. OSX's constraints were evident even at this tender age. Her father, Steve, threw here a birthday party once, which there was a gate fee. It was a kind odd party though, you see, OSX was seated at the table, away from everybody else. All her friends were in the sandbox, and not allowed out. In some ways this was ok, you see, one of her friends, winmo, was a retard. Even the birthday card he gave her was evident of this. It said "happy birthday" in 1 point font, leaving the rest of the card blank. Also, you could only open the card w/ tweezers. Then there was Android, what a guy (if here were human that is). He was much like OSX, but much more of a free spirit. Unlike her other friends, he GAVE her a gift. He entertained all the other guests by doing tricks. He put a phone and computer in a box, and magically tethered them together. He also brought forbidden magazines to the party, like "itunes control". The funny thing is, OSX and Android have the same mother, Ma Bell. Perhaps that explains the sibling rivalry.

jkr's bold comment

im happy with my iphone, google can keep their crap.

otis123

People forget about something important:

Android is the nightmare of content providers since it promotes hacking. However hard will the mobile service providers try to lock down their Android handsets, the phones will be hacked right away because the whole source code of the OS is available.
What it means is that piracy will blossom more than ever on any mobile platforms before. Content providers will be hesitant to release software or copyrighted material because of this.

The most important reason why content providers are happy to use Apple for delivering such vast amount of digital content is that it puts DRM on everything. Since Apple platforms are more closed, Apple so far has managed to keep digital content neatly secured.

zmd21

Wait I forget is Android coming out for Sprint?

(is that a dumb question becuase it's open source?)

frankwolftown

Bonus reason: There is no compelling reason to buy Android based phone if you already have used smart phones. Blackberry is successful because of email and iphone is successful because of it's seamless integration of mobile web and entertainment features. End users don't care whether it is fully open or half baked such as iphone. And, those who care; might already have an iPhone. Android is doomed from the beginning.

tillman

@johnthevulcan: I thought he was the 17th gen iPhone. Oh damn, my bad, he couldn't be an iPhone, he's "fully functional".

jkr's bold comment

@collider:
are verizon or sprint GSM? if not then the iPhone won't work. if they are, then it should work. i can use my iPhone with any SIM on any network.

HoseHead

win

ContemplativeTwig

but will it COPY/PASTE?

urbanturban666

@otis123: You my friend are a lost cause and a pointless member of society to think that Google is crap. It's okay to be scared of them(because they know your soul), but don't act like their products are poor(you come off as ignorant).

SgtToastie

I can't believe I want the weekend to end so that I can get to this T-Mobile Android conference.

SgtToastie

maybe the compition will allow more iphone apps to be devolped that were banned before

simi510

it wont blend cuz its software. but will it copy-paste? it will cuz its not an iphone. EXACTLY its not an iPhone HAHAHA.
OK seriously i'm really happy to see that thanks to Apple we'll have a phone market that is WAAY better then what I expected. Initiatives like the iPhone or Android are crazy. Rebels etc... They push the human race foreward.

IVPPITER

@otis123:

Individuality, look it up cause I think you have no clue what it means.

MadCrazy

Hmmm everybody needs to remember that Google is, first and foremost an advertising company; just as MacDonalds Corp is, first and foremost, a real estate company. That says a lot already about the experience that will predominate. 'Course hackability does count for a lot.

Mandatory_Field

I'm down, pre-ordering that sucker!
i'll be laughing at all the iSheeps when i get it for sure!!

Carbon

@MadCrazy: OK, so I looked it up. Here's what it says:

Individuality: A popular movement, modeled after a now largely defunct subculture of ardent Apple aficionados, in which the distinguishing features are a common distaste for all Apple products and those who use them, and an unquestioning allegiance to others who share the same view. In usage: "The group of students expressed their individuality by beating the child playing Koi on her iPhone so they could discuss recent changes to the Vista EULA without distraction."

frigg

T-mobile's network might be small (for now), but that doesn't mean AT&T's overpriced, flaky 3G network is automatically better. Frankly, America's 3G networks all suck anyway, so it's a matter of choosing the lesser evil.

The difference is that if you live in one of T-mobile's launch cities (like me!), you have a good chance of getting very good 3G performance at a very competitive price.

As for dozens of different devices, I think Matt has it backwards. The point of Android is that it offers the same base mobile OS no matter what device the user is using, so the user can (eventually) buy the type of hardware that matches his/her needs and preferences. Sure there will be some differences in how to navigate the menus, but it won't be nearly as drastic as jumping ship from the iPhone to BlackBerry to get a hardware keyboard, or dealing with migration woes from Symbian to WinMo for corporate users.

Consistency from device-to-device of the OS will depend far more on reason #3, the carriers and how they choose to customize their devices. But with the core Google apps plus an easy to use app store/database, it probably won't be that big of an issue.

terebakashi

#3 on the "not to be" list is what scares me :(

Also, whenever I think of reasons to switch from iPhone to Android, "it's not an iPhone" is there. However, when I think of reasons NOT to switch, "it's not an iPhone" is also there. I can see why it was so fitting to put that as the bonus reasons on both the "to be" and "not to be" lists.

Seinosuke

@HoseHead: No sir, they don't use SIM cards at all. It's an entirely different system on Sprint and Verizon. The only well-known carriers that use GSM SIM cards are T-mobile and AT&T.

KarinDiscoGirl

Right, because Linux has so totally taken off. There is no Windows vs Linux, or Mac vs Linux, or anything but Linux vs Linux in the little open source closed cosmos of Linux. The same will go for Android. It's too etherial, and there's no profit in it. It may take off among ubergeekoids. But your mom will never use Android.

robogobo

CAN'T WAIT TO BASH Android Phone like people bash iPhone..... Hmm mmm payback is ON.

vgart

@robogobo:

i have to disagree. the average computer user just does not know about linux, thus they do not use it. linux is an excellent OS and is very flexible. besides the linux portion of android is not even the most exciting or promising aspect; the fact that it has its own jvm and will be able to run simple-to-design java apps is the key. java is a language that many people that do not even have an interest in programming take for business or just to expand their horizons, and regardless, even if people do not write their own programs it is much simpler to make apps for android. i will be surprised if android does not have as much success as the apple app store. there is no premise to compare android with the iphone, but android has a great amount of potential to be an industry leading mobile platform. the OS is open-source! businesses can even make a more secure redesign for private use with simple secure java apps etc. there are soooo many options. i am quite excited.

p.s. for what it is worth, i am a 10 year verizon wireless customer and self-proclaimed computer geek.

(judge me if you must)

-sam

smoorez

I dunno... I love all the innovation Google does, just as much as Apple, but whereas my beef with Apple is their closedness, my problem with Google is captured perfectly in that bit they accidentally left in their browser's EULA: they keep all your data and use it to sell you stuff. I don't care as much about the directed ads and stuff, but in general I feel a bit stripped of privacy, and I don't think I would use Google products like gmail or documents to store private documents or emails. Then again, can I really trust Apple or Microsoft to be any better? I feel that it's a tough call between the benefits of using a product made by a large company like Google, Apple or Microsoft, that is to say polish, quality assurance, and (most important for me) tech support and/or warranty, versus freeware like LInux, which has a huge community behind it whose impressive enthusiasm almost insures high quality, and is much less likely to spy on you or try to sell you stuff or hide features.

kzooguy

plus the android looks like ass the real dirty kind

darklybishop

So far, Android is pretty much like Chrome to me.
I'm not very interested in it right now, but I see much potential for it being awesome with given time.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

Sounds like it will be great, in theory. But you will end up like Windows, trying to make an OS run on one to many (and mostly unknown) hardware configs. Also, the media player thing will suck too, this is where iphone apple kill it, because they go the more nazi approach, but in the end you get a (more) stable product. I guess, you pick your poison in the end yeah? Also, why is it Google has so much damn money, but they cannot hire a graphic designer to design their software apps? Yet they pay for slides and fireman poles in their offices.

YWFT_DG

Give it a bit of time and it will be bye bye iPhone. And then watch those iPhone fanboys change sides quicker than an iPhone reboot. (i.e. They will need a bit of time.)

Rustydog

Let's see if Google can build better software than Apple. Making a better iphone is a hard job, is like making a better mercedes or a better rolex.

Android will be like Linux an excelent OS but it can't be better than MacOsX for end users.

Take a look at linux apps they are ugly and can't compared to apps for vista and macosx.

max.

Tons of hardware is not necessarily good. If a developer wants to make a program, they are gonna have to go though tons of hoops just to decide what devices their particular piece of software can run on.

Joseph

Very convincing. I'm on T-Mobile already, and happy with it, so...

I use google apps / mail / calendar already, they know everything about me, and I actually trust Google enough.

I love open platforms. Imagine smooth syncing with my Linux computers, with no hacking, etc. Awesome.

If it really does suck I can always just smack my SIM back in my crappy flip phone.

Android has wifi, right? I live where I have super-fast wifi all the time, so I don't even need a data plan.

WANT.

Daniel

@urbanturban666:

+ Watch video

matt buchanan

This is all very well and good, but will it blend?

Nuclear Moose

@Nuclear Moose: Your commenter account will.

matt buchanan

I forsee the same problems Windows has: They make the software, someone else makes the hardware, so things are never quite in sync and dont evolve nearly as quickly.

kellygeorge

@robogobo: You are correct. My mom will never use android. Unless it does a better job playing Solitaire.

Furthermore, I think most of these comments miss the point, and most of the people who frequent these boards miss the point. People don't want a "flexible" operating system - they don't even know what that means. They want a stable operating system, a fast operating system, an easy-to-use operating system that they don't need to hack or customize. This is the major failing of Vista, I believe - it's just too much darned effort to use. Perhaps once it is tweaked and configured to your liking it's ok, but it's too long of a climb.

Android, to be successful, needs to come out of the box ready to go - just like a Palm, just like an iPhone, just like a WinMo device, even. The vast majority of people don't give a rat's nether regions about the flexibility of the system after that.

ps61318

Anyway this iPhone is great; it's so delicious and moist

That's why I prefer Android. Always.

shadow_judge

iPhone helped kickstart the gradual devolution of carriers to open, dumb pipes? Really? How exactly?

Roams

@Teenagejesus: I love threads like this. In a few months we can all look back and many people will absolutely cringe at what their suppositions were, perhaps even me.

Here's mine: this will be a fail of EPIC proportions.

@SneakerFiend:

I completely disagree. IMO all the positives are best-case scenario pipe dreams, with the exception of #5, and the negatives seem a lot more likely.

Matthew_Maurice

@ps61318: This will be a great thing having a Google/Linux phone if for no other reason than it will keep Apple at its high level of upgrades to stay ahead of the pack.

More competition = better iPhone

I have to concur with Robo..Linux hasn't done anything that has broken into mainstream yet, and I don't see this disrupting Apple's market share any time soon.

codemagic

@terebakashi:
>Agreed, but that doesn't mean it's not. Yes, good 3G only where you need might be better, but it tends to be easier to make a huge but "flakey" network better than to make a small but good network huge. I'd suggest we call it the evil of two lessers.

>Granted, but you also have a non-negligible chance of very bad 3G performance, which would negate the competiveness of the price for sane people.

>So Android will vary device-to-device less than an iPhone or WinMo does to BB? Wow, give me some of that! The real nightmare here is one version of an app for Andriod phone A and another version of the same app for phone B because it has a different feature set. Extrapolating that, considering that handset manufacturers will probably delinate models vertically by capability, an Android app may have to be available in multiple versions for different phones in the same product line. Baring some kind of gestalt check in a universal binary, the alternative is offering all those phones only features of the least capable model. Either way developers are facing big headaches.

>Wait a second, the whole point of Android is that the carriers don't customize the device, they will support the devices the manufacturers create which use whatever portions of Android the handset is capable of. The whole point of the "open" OS is lost if the carriers come in and start turning stuff off. Take the previous and add the layer of another vesion of each version for each carrier.

I predict developers fondly recalling Apple's constrains and limitations (read: known environmental framework), consumers missing a standardized experience and centralized place to buy safe and sane applications, and carriers who preferred an Apple contract signed in blood to the headache of administering a network that's been overridden with zobie handsets, rampant malware, and subscribers trying to reload the kernel on their mobile phone.

Matthew_Maurice

Don't you think there will be a disincentive to gimping the OS? If it's too limited people will just switch carriers.

Having android scaled to different level phones is a positive. Then you pay for the feature you want but still get a consistent experience. It will also help get the platform to more users increasing the incentive to write killer apps. Hopefully it will also drive down the price of phones with touch screens and gps.

RDbeach

Android must be seamless (No OS visible, great UI, great form factor) to be successful against the iPhone. Or else, the carriers will use it as a tool to cheap out on paying actual money on WinMo handsets...

Five "Rules" of Great Phones
Rule 0: You live and die by your Mobile Operators. (ee AT&T 3G fiasco of 2008)
Rule 1: Be a great phone first. Great reception, no dropped calls, long battery life.(WinMo and Apple pls pay attention to this...)
Rule 2: Back it up with a sexy industrial design that makes it trendy if not fashionable. Do not let the engineers neuter it. This isn't the old MicroTAC/AMPS days. (Apple, you nailed it. Motorola - WTF?)
Rule 3: Nail text messaging (for the kids!)
Rule 4: build incrimental value with all of the other wireless-enabled computing stuff last. (this is the candy for the carriers... data services means new value streams for the commoditized MobOps)

So far, I have not seen too much that makes me think Android will nail all 5 of these... but I am open to see what's what when it ships.

fdg008

...only if i can go incognito on my phone... then, i'm all in.

quasimotto

What you fail to realise is that not everybody here is in the US, so bad thing No.2 is totally meaningless to those of us who live in countries were the 3G network is widespead and works properly. Mind you this also applies to the Iphone 3G, which im told works just fine over here.

Baldyman1966

Here's what I've seen so far on the G1. It's slightly larger than the iPhone but TONS cheaper, especially if you're already a T-mobile customer and eligible for upgrade.

What I can't find is internal memory. They include a 1GB memory card

"With the 1GB memory card, you'll never be without your favorite tunes"

Correction... "With the 1GB memory card, you'll never be without your favorite tune"

What the heck is the internal memory on the thing?! Because 1 GB is NOTHING!

I'm also concerned about syncing with Outlook or Exchange access (for work purposes, I use a Mac at home). I know this could be taken care of by third party apps, but until I see app availability, I'm cautious.

Cost is nice. It's an add-on to whatever plan you have with T-mobile, just like a data plan. There's an initial $18 upgrade charge, and then it's either $25 for 400 text messages and "unlimited" data (with restrictions clearly stated) or $35 for unlimited messages and data. Right now I pay $3.99/mo for 300 text messages and data is $19.99/mo. So, the $25 plan is pretty decent and not a price increase.

chiieddy

@chiieddy: Digging I found it could support 8 GB MicroSD but still no info on Bluetooth. I know it's sort of assumed, but.. ASS U ME

chiieddy

Sounds great, looking forward to more in-depth coverage! Some at this interesting article.

sarahoneill