Mythbusters should move to Canada and do the RFID peace over there!

daftrok

@DustyButt:
Ahhh, RFID, such an interesting and dangerous technology. There are so many different flaws to them, it's amusing. There are a variety of different attacks that can be done. The chips can be tricked into thinking they're a valid session, give the information needed, and then the attacker can clone the card. Voila, without even touching them.

It would also be easy to wirelessly track people, you just need to have a strong enough gain antenna. You could then plot the path of people, this would get very interesting for state or government IDs. We'll need this to combat the war on "terror", won't we?

secretmanofagent

@ravedown: @ackthbbft: Seriouisly, it's like, "Alton Brown is two conventions down at the Good Eats forum. Pester him."

Git Em SteveDave is starlost

I still think that if they had aired the episode in defiance of the lawyers and the major credit card companies had tried to sue Adam and Jamie, I think they would have the worst PR disaster on their hands since all those lost laptop scandals a couple of years ago.

markarian

hahaha...that pizza stone conversation is GOLD! i love when crazy self-important eccentrics take over...i gotta hear that again!

ravedown

@wiggatron: My point exactly. Imagine if they didn't cooperate as fully as they did.

@DustyButt: I should have seen that one coming, but the LOL caught me off guard.

Phenostar

RFID isn't the conspiracy here people, the government doesn't want you to know how to make the perfect pizza crust...

JB

@_badtziscool:

You're right, but I do know of overbearing corporations that have so much influence on a government that they have puppet politicians running the country. If you're in the U.S. and you don't think our government is tittering on overbearing, I laugh at you. The difference between the USSR and the U.S. is that our current government is damn good at lying.

1.21Gigawatts

Maybe I'm thinking of something else, but I swear I've seen an episode where they discuss this and try different methods of wrapping the card up to avoid it being scanned and whatnot.

PlasmaMachine

@Phenostar: Except that the NASA one only helped to strengthen the argument for the moon landing being legit, not the contrary. As I recall, all 4 or 5 myths on that episode were totally busted.

wiggatron

@Phenostar: Remember that ruling two months ago giving retroactive immunity to communications companies and information collection "services" for monitoring signals?

RFID's passively give off signals right?
These are in just about EVERYTHING right?

From what I understand these don't act as microphones or anything (that's what your cellphone is good for). I wouldn't be surprised if right now th

DustyButt

Do you suppose some of these same weaknesses apply to the RFID chipped passports...?

bombs_away

@ackthbbft: Agreed, that lady in the last ten seconds of the video and her passion on building a better brick Neopolitan pizza oven was oddly disturbing.

Toshie

This is a totally random story but I was on a dive boat with Tori and 3 producers after they were doing wakeboarding behiend a cruize ship and the boat sunk after lots of rain we ran into the rocks
Stuart Cove in the Bahamas (if anyone cares it was the Plane Dive site)

bwilliams18

Vote with your "business". If Amex or Visa issue you a CC with RFID, and you have a problem with that, pay off the balance and cancel the card. I have a great card with one of those industry specific credit unions (backed by Visa), but if they send me an RFID version, I'm going to cancel it. I will not tolerate a wireless CC. No matter what. I'm also planning on doing some investigative work into my passport I received about a year and a half ago. If it has RFID, I'm going to look into ways to disable that too.

There are certain processes that have no added benefit of going wireless. Credit Cards, Passports, syringes,...none of these deserve to be made "wireless".

newgalactic

Phenostar, is it that hard to imagine why credit card companies would be opposed to the weaknesses in RFID being exposed on national television? I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but their motivation should be pretty obvious.

KHarvey16

@_badtziscool: Whats the point in having a non-communist govt when it thinks from its a**??

Anyway, I dont care what the legal implications are; how can this be allowed? If RFID doesn't work, it should be scrapped.

This is really stupid.

ashwinaj

@Kaiser-Machead on the Edge: Or perhaps they're hiding the fact that they're using it to track us, catalog us, and listen in on our conversations.
I wouldn't put it past 'em.
These guys are more in bed with US Gov't than AT&T.

Phenostar

awww RFID. Question. Is all of RFID insecure, or just the chips that the CC companies are using from Texas Instrument? In case you want to see how easy it is.....

[video.google.com]

mdawg4624

that chick asking the question after the RFID thing called adam tory. retard. and a liar, says she's a fan of the show. she'd know his name them.

Alfonzo

@Phenostar: Maybe they're trying to hide the fact that they'd probably have to invest a great deal of time and money into fixing the matter. Maybe fraudulent transactions are cheaper things to deal with than fixing a widespread weakness in an increasingly RFID-saturated world.

Gotta love short-sightedness. Making the general public aware does not speed up the knowledge gained by tech savvy criminals. No doubt many already know about the weakness anyway.

Kaiser-Machead on the Edge

yeah it's a good thing at one point, but still doesn't fix the problem itself, which is the card companies is or might be willing to let customers be attacked from people who are doing this.

Mr.DuckSauce

@Loonie:

Well, those people who bought houses who are now being foreclosed on sure did.

Imakeholesinu

RFID tech: "Oh my god... that discussion we had about why this RFID crap being still an unfinished spec and why we shouldn't push this to the marketplace yet. Discovery Channel via Mythbusters is going to air the whole kit and kaboodle! Were going to look like dopes!"

RFID management:"Don't worry about it son. The legal system can be bought."

axiomatic

@Anticitizen:

Whoever had faith in banks in the first place?

Loonie

Oh, and "video no longer available" in 5...4...3...2...

Phenostar

Overbearing government? You don't know anything about an overbearing government until you've lived in a communist country.

Anyways, CC companies can just eat rocky mountain oysers with self-made ranch sauce. I want my Mythbusters! I want my Kari Byron!

_badtziscool

Wow, that video could have been cut at least in half. That last attendee asking about pizza stones??

ackthbbft

I can't wait till that episode sees the light of day.

This is like NASA pulling the moon landing hoax episode for legal reasons. Of course everybody's going to think it was hoaxed, or MythBusters found evidence of the alien lunar base or whatever.
This is a pretty drastic measure to take.
I wonder what the CC companies are hiding...

Phenostar

Great job guys, you just got yourselves a ton of bad PR, and on top of that, it's been exposed that RFID is insecure. There goes peoples' faith.

Anticitizen

well, it's either get bullied by an overbearing government, or get bullied by an overbearing corporation. Choose your poison.

1.21Gigawatts

@wiggatron: Wait, what? I'm confused now too.
Damnit.
/makes coffee

Phenostar

Oh come on!

Nothing beats an authentic Neapolitan pizza except TWO authentic Neapolitan pizzas!

I don't know that I would ask about pizza stones at that kind of conference, but I wouldn't mind knowing if there's some magic technology that will let me make good 'real' pizzas at home.

Well, I know there is, but I'm not going to build a brick wood-burning stove just to do it.

dc-united

you think that the Mythbusters would find that it is not as secure as we are led to beleive.

but Adam also talks about the traceability of the RFID, and it wouldn't surprise me that they would find it very tracable indeed, more they you think !
because RFIDs are in more stuff then you think.

xenoastro

@Phenostar: I don't get what you mean? Cooperate with whom? NASA, or the CC companies?

wiggatron

Disableing RFID tags:
Isn't that what WallyMart (& others) do when they place your purchase on the little pad that says not to put your credit cards on it?
Hmmmmmm (If you place your card on it, and it beeps, is it destroyed)?? I wonder?

dickinsonc

So RFID is secure enough to use in credit cards but not secure enough to talk about on TV? I always cringe when I see people use RFID enabled credit cards. There have been video demonstrations on the internet of the security flaws in them. I'm glad mine don't have RFID in them.... yet.

mikemacman

Getting a better crust!

vasha

The thing is that RFID'd pizza stones can combine themselves to create the perfect pizza stone, which in turn is a huge conspiracy that the Credit Card corporations are planning to use to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!

No wait...

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

I'm boycotting Mythbusters and the Disco channel completely until they agree to air this episode. Seriously. Advertisers have way too much control in what we see, and when it comes to a security issue like this, where it affects every consumer, they have a right to know.

weatherman

Gestappo tactics, but really is ANYONE suprised?

VideoVampire

Perhaps they should start calling it RFAIL...

Jrsy

@dickinsonc: No, those pads that say not to put you card on them have magnets that disable the alarm triggers in CDs, games etc... They will also disable the magnetic strip on your card, thus making it useless.

YourHero

How the conversation should have gone:

MB: F-You! You don't control the content on OUR show. You don't like it tough!

CCC: We'll sue...

MB: Great, we love it! You'll get 1000 times more bad publicity than if you just leave our show alone.

Jordan Lund

Fuck 'em. Anyone that knows that Tech knows it sux anyhow. How stupid do they think people are, oh wait...

spectator101

Just in case you'd like to watch his whole tak. it's pretty good.

[www.mentalfloss.com]

HeyBeav

@im_back: check my link, you'll get the whole talk.

HeyBeav

@ackthbbft: Well the video could havebeen cut better, but now I wanna know what Adam had to say in response to the incredibly long winded pizza oven question. Does anyone have the rest of this Q&A session?

im_back

@dickinsonc:
Different technology. The ones that they use (unless they've finally followed through on their RFID initiative from years back) uses resonance.

secretmanofagent

There is no worse company today than the blood-sucking credit card companies.

Period. End of story.

Dancing Milkcarton

fat lady.
pizza stones.
could she say the word 'pizza' without so much fat in her jowls?

too harsh?

StopRilla

@Dancing Milkcarton: Yep. I've been CC free for almost 10 years. I carry two pieces of debt (car and home).

It's hasn't had a negative impact yet, and never will.
F*** You CC companies!

DustyButt

Wow. Too bad. The credit card companies, retailers like WalMart, Target, transportation companies like UPS,FEDEX all stood to gain some good publicity if Mythbusters showed some weaknesses and they talked about how it's already been fixed in "genII" or something like that instead of blatantly telling everyone on the internet that it's terribly insecure and they know it.

whiteknight

@DustyButt: cool...so how do you book hotels/airline tix? i tried to jam a personal check through the phone once but they wouldn't take it.

ravedown

Wow, I can't believe that fat ass asked the Mythbuster genius about pizza stones. Come on, what show was she watching?

nuggetz

I wish RFID sticked to it's original use: parcels and goods tracking.

Adding it to Credit Card is just really stupid.

And what about the chip? In most of European countries, you NEVER have to sign the receipt, but instead type your PIN. This is much safer. I remember my last trip in the US, I kept on signing receipts with Disney's character names, and nobody ever said anything.
I remember it as a funny yet frightening experience. Seems like in the US, you just need to know 2 numbers (CC# and SS#) to be a new person.

fargi

@ravedown: Debit card, genius.

DustyButt

So once again, something that would be helpful to know is going to be suppressed so that only people that we don't want to know it, will have the information. Of course, the problem is the fact that there are so many RFIDs out there AND the fact that they are inherently insecure - it will take too long and cost too much money to correct the mistake.

archetype94306

@newgalactic: passport+microwave+10 seconds.

prime80

damm fat chick hogging the mike droning on and on bout food

MariaOzawa

@newgalactic:
All you have to do to block an RFID chip is wrap it in aluminum foil. A friend of mine works as a salesperson at a company that makes them, and they have a heck of a time reading them from more than a yard or so, when they're out in the open. I've seen passport covers (I believe at ThinkGeek.com) that have a discreet metal mesh woven into them, if you don't like the "tinfoil hat" look. Even the chips that have a battery built in (which makes them way bigger) can only be picked up from a short distance. Plus the battery doesn't last very long.

Rincewind

@MariaOzawa: haha QFMFT

fat bitch thinks eating is now considered some kind of intellectual hobby

japroach

T'was ever thus. We've been "politely asked" to not air investigative pieces on the car biz since Pinto was a pup. Threatened even. Real, serious, people-sitting-in-cars-outside-the-house threats.

You make a decision. Blasting a story just to be cool 'cause you tripped over some inside info is lame. Been there. Blowing stories out of proportion is worse (can you say Geraldo?) But, backing down when someone's going to get hurt by not knowing... that's worst of all.

I've had good fortune to have management with enough steel to step up, even taking on the car business in Detroit. Guess the need for them went away with the Fairness Doctrine. Shame, Discovery Channel.

HKLV

@Rincewind: Fortunately US and UK passports have a foil shield built into the cover which shorts out the chip when the passport is closed. I myself can't activate the chip when these passports are closed. This mesh shield you mention is only necessary if you're concerned about privacy for your passport and you're a citizen elsewhere.

lurgy

If you are going to blow the cover on something, wouldn't you keep it under wraps until you expose your discovery?

Brilliant Mythbusters. I won't be trying this one at home, as you are obviously "Professionals, with years of experience".
-BC

b0bcat

@newgalactic: RFID blocking wallet for your passport. [www.thinkgeek.com]

bspencer

@Phenostar: LOL!

wiggatron