@DBX00: Psh, typing on a phone kills my speed no matter what. The software keyboard is easier for me, because it forces me to look at the screen. If I didn't do that, all my typing would look like jhgl (I type Dvorak).

@ps61318: Google has a mobilizer bookmarklet you can use.

At any rate, even if they were both loading at the same speed, this really makes the iPhone look better. The huge screen is a big part of it, but the little nipple on the Blackberry looks like a real pain in the ass for navigating. I thought the BB was a touchscreen phone? Why the dependency on all these hardware nubbins?

t3knomanser

@Tank: It's possible that it was a tongue-in-cheek sort of thing.

Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish

@Ron-Mexico: Skyfire my friend, I use Opera Mobile 9 and it is alright. But Skyfire is BLAZING fast.

praevalesco

@theMOE: Well, there are those of us who can't see the video either. How about we have someone describe the pictures in text format, and give the narration as well?

Just kidding, I don't really care - I can wait until I get home, usually.

What we REALLY need is a mobile version of Giz for us poor bastards stuck on Treos - only way I can get to some of this stuff at the office.

ps61318

@dcdttu: Do you REALLY think it's possible for the iPhone to drain the battery in a few seconds? Seriously, you sound like a flaming fanboy.

I wouldn't hang my hat on this test but the iPhone was definitely snappier. I'll wait for more testing before writing the Bold off but this wasn't a good start.

Tank

@slaughter33: so what you are saying is that despite having a phone with the capabilities to browse the internet we should still never attempt to b/c we will therefore be tools. you sir are - amazing. we use it b/c it's there, don't get so mad b/c your precious BBB got smacked around while using WiFi. ill take internet over gps any day.

@dopoognora: LOL

graphx

Opera Mobile 9 pulled the first couple up faster on my HTC Touch than both of them without the benefit of wifi and on a somewhat weak 3G connection.

The whole mobile browsing experience is over-hyped anyway though. Even with a great browser and connection you spend half your time waiting (no matter how fast the connection) and the other half panning and zooming. For geeks, nothing beats a good feed reader for sheer content consumption.

Ron-Mexico

I'm also curious whether his claim that the Bold can't turn off the cellular portion of the device is correct. Every Wi-Fi/GSM Berry I've ever had has a connection manager where I can disabled the cellular modem, but keep Wi-Fi on. It doesn't make sense that they would remove that for their newest device.

scoobydoo

umm...Why not just download Opera mini for the Bold and you get close enough to the iphone experience.

Either way, as an Iphone owner I like browsing the web but my phone is first and foremost used for telephone, text messaging, and email. These are the things that the Bold and Blackberries kill the Iphone.

I miss my keyboard :( The touchscreen has lost its allure after a year of spending half my time correcting my mistakes and 10 minutes to type an email that should've taken 2 minutes.

DBX00

Yeah, he botched the test. The Bold showed "Internet Browser" when the browser came up. If he was actually using the WiFi, it should have been "Hotspot Browser". He was going over 3G/EDGE on the BB, so it's definitely not a fair comparison.

ConstyXIV

@Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish: Also, the Bold's screen looks like it's twice as big as the iPhone's so at least once it's downloaded, you're not looking at a tiny litt.... wait... uh... never mind.

frigg

Anyone else notice the kinghost.com URL pop up on the iPhone? Someone has been looking at naked girls......

DCAbrams

@slaughter33: Well that was probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. BB has been using their own browser for 10 or so years, and you can compare them because they are COMPARABLE. See how that works? You can't say that it's a bad test because one of the competitors sucks so bad at what the other does so well.

The Magnificen7

Both of them are really nice phones but the bold is kind of painful to navigate the web with i think, when Apple gets all these bugs fix i think Rim is going to have a lot to worry about

snitch29

I would like to see a Winmo phone running Skyfire up against the iPhone. I think the results are probably going to be far different.

praevalesco

something screwy with that test-why can't the Bold hold it's 3G signal?
And while the Bold was on wifi at first-did it lose it when the page started loading?

And what was all that shit on the Bolds screen at start?

Why didn't the guy clear history and launch both from bookmarks?

dogcow

I just loaded the same pages on my Curve, and they were fully loaded in about 6 seconds (over Wi-Fi). I had the same result with Javascript support turned on or off.

Either the test was flawed, or the software on the bold is buggy (I'm running 4.5.0.69 on the 8320).

scoobydoo

@slaughter33: BB has been making a mobile browser for 10 years.

MikeSWelch

Pwn pwn pwn the bold
Gently down the stream
Merrily merrily merrily merrily
The iPhone's but a dream

MikeSWelch

should be no surprise. Blackberry Bold: To boldly bastardize a web page like no browser before..

dopoognora

@graphx: lol, nice one

VirreVojj

@FlashSandbox: My work computer has no sound. Hooray for corporate insurance company. So my bad on the audio front. Thanks for confirmation though.

Hey, here's an idea Giz... How about providing closed caption for us unfortunate corporate slaves that can't hear audio? I can't be the only one here right? Right? Anyone?

theMOE

Does anyone notice that the Blackberry switches from 3G to EDGE at 2:10? Are we absolutely sure it was using Wi-Fi?

theblackdog

Classic case of Java vs. C

Joseph

@tenthirtyone: everybody that has an iphone where i work has speaker interference from it..so it's either the phone or the conductive display. I thought it might have to do with the GSM network as a possibility as well.

agentUrge

In Blackberry's defense, if they would have used a iPhone 3G, the iPhone would have probably drained its battery before downloading the first page, or Safari would have crashed, or the phone would have crashed, or 3G would have disconnected from bad reception and completely screwed up the WiFi connection, or the bluetooth would have caused the WiFi not to work....

I'm just sayin'

dcdttu

This is a ridiculous comparison. Apple makes a desktop browser so of course they could make a good port to the iPhone. If BB use mobile IE or mobile FF (when complete), then they most likely be the same considering the both have similar processing power. Why don't we compare GPS since both have that, oh wait, the iPhone's GPS is crippled kind of like the BB browser. Get over it people. If you browse the web on your phone you are tool. At least you can buy a stopwatch in the iApp store...

slaughter33

I wish teh guy was an iPhone on WiFi, could be talk any slower? damn dude, get with it!

James

Let's pretend that the iPhone was even a little bit slower than the blackberry. The screen size and interface of the iphone still blows the blackberry away.

Wilcry

@Kaspir: BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That was awesome...
but seriusly:
Apple Fanboys: 1
Stupid People: 0

CCM333

I just wish the iPhone was as business friendly as the Blackberry. I hear it still has a lot of issues with emails.

phijef

@Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish: Perhaps he had the back-lighting turned down all the way? Otherwise, they iPhone's battery would've died during the test. Twice.

Chromeo

@Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish: I was looking at that too, the screen looks really nice. Hmm, time for Apple to throw a wicked awesome ppi count into the next iPhone. The iPhone still has a terrific screen though.

The Magnificen7

I just can't believe they haven't drastically altered the look of the interface on the BB. It's just so damn ugly and sterile.

Plus it would look like some older business users would have to use a microscope to see that text. God knows they don't know how to change the font size.

BB7

@Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish: Meh. I assume the iPhone's brightness is turned down. Mine is set to less than half brightness and is fine.

ppiddy

that's rather unfortunate. Hopefully RIM will respond to this apparent huge difference. It shouldn't have taken that long to 'request' the page, and loading the page was ridiculous.

AllThingsWireless

Where are all the people bitching about how RIM has released what amounts to a beta version of their software, hasn't done their testing, and has screwed over their customers?

ppiddy

That's pretty impressive. Too bad the iPhone's display looks a lot dimmer than the Bold's.

Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish

owned. not 1 time or 2 or 3 but 4 times!!! <3 my iPhone. but hey the BBB is still a great phone for you BB users.

graphx

You can hear the rf interference from one of the unit's (probably the Bold) radios faintly in the background. I wonder if the bold was in fact loading on EDGE. It sounds like it's using the cellular data connection based on the interference. Speed seems to coincide. Leaning towards bullshit...

tenthirtyone

lol wow thats like edge speed.

hes even using the original iphone too not even the 3G which has better wi-fi reception

rudez90

And to think I was going to get a BlackBerry as my next phone. Not it's definitly an iPhone. That is incredible!

aussie

Oh god, it got trashed. I was gonna head over to a Rogers store to check out the BBB, maybe I won't be in such a rush. I still luvs my iPhone 3G.

The Magnificen7

@theMOE: If you watch the video at about 30-something seconds he points out they are both using Wi-Fi.

FlashSandbox

@theMOE: They are both using the same wifi network.

That was painful to watch.

Benjaminx

I meant with the Bold.

theMOE

Also, does anyone see how 3G and Edge fluctuate continuously throughout the video? Sounds like an iPhone. LOL

theMOE

maybe the iPhone is sending interference. You know apple, always screwing over the competition...

Rodime

Isn't the Bold using 3G while the iPhone is using Wifi? That's not entirely fair is it?

theMOE

iPwned! oh my, aha, em...see what I did there...he he, um...yea...sorry.

Kaspir

Take that Blackberry fans! (or something like that...)

FlashSandbox

Quote from youtube: "... the wifi icon doesnt mean automatically you are connected.. i have the bold - and it doesnt mean you are connected. just showing there is a connection available - funny - i tried the same here with a few site and they are quite same fast. iphone is just a little bit faster - but not like you video showed. "

So the bold has detected a Wi-Fi network, but is probably not connected. So it's probably a LOT faster, though still slower than the iPhone.

daath

@slaughter33: So, what you're saying is that it's an unfair test to put a 3g BBB up against a 1st gen iPhone because apple already manufactures their own browser?

Shouldn't the argument be that BB didn't care enough about their user experience to improve the performance of their browsing engine? They could have taken the rendering bits from Firefox, or maybe adapted Firefox into a mobile browser... They didn't. Apple found a way to leverage what they had, while lightening the overhead required to run. Apple also tends to care deeply about basic user experience. Something most cellular companies do not, and quite a few phone companies as well.

Sorry, take your whining and shove it. I don't even own an iPhone and I was impressed with the performance difference. I don't even plan on buying an iPhone. (yet)

You lose! Good day sir!

Xavoc

Daym, never realized how much Blackberry suck

vgart

@DCAbrams:

But how can you know that unless you...oh, I get it.

TimurY

@ps61318: Treos? Ughh painful. Let's all chip in and give the lad at least a decent mobile device.

theMOE

so wi-fi is on, but the BBB doesn't automatically use wi-fi to download data for the browser? thats ridiculous...

phil12345

@Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish: Tongue in cheek or not, you still see the double standard. Truth is, fanboys are fanboys on both sides of the fence.

Tank

@kaffeen: Maybe the Instinct. Theyve been asking for it.

Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish

@t3knomanser: I seriously hate the fact that it requires you to navigate a tiny desktop-like pointer. It may work on a Thinkpad, but that's just horrible for a smartphone.

Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish

Pretty amazing difference. I would like to see more comparisons like this (iPhone versus....).

kaffeen

For a bit more unscientific testing, I turned off wifi on my iPhone 3G and compared the slashdot test.

It took about the same amount of time for my iPhone and the Bold to request the page but my iPhone still rendered the page fast enough to request and render a second page before the Bold finished the first page.

Tom's Hardware needs to tackle this one.

Tank

@praevalesco: Oh I know Skyfire well indeed. And it's even faster. I was just trying to do a true client-side browser comparison by using Opera 9.5 instead of a proxy service like Skyfire.

Ron-Mexico

@ps61318: If there were a mobile version of Giz, basically the take away message from the vid is that it'd work better with an iPhone than a Bold.

frigg

@slaughter33: What you just said doesnt make sense my friend. Couple other dudes already touched on the fact BB has making make a mobile browser for quite a long time. But when you said "If you browse the web on your phone you are tool." that what made you really sound stupid.

pdditty

I think the bold is using EDGE instead of wifi. In the blackberry browser you have to specifically tell it to use wifi in the "go to" menu. I doubt the person who did this test actually changed it to wifi. My curve loads pages faster then the bold compared to this video.

On another note, the BB browser is utter crap, safari still wins even if the BB browser is using wifi.

mynameisjoe

@everyone who claims this is BS:

E pur si Muove

that is all.

lpranal

Something is wrong on that Bold as per post in HoFo Rogers forums. Members claiming it's only handshaked with WiFi but the connection was dropped. While browsing you should see white Wi-Fi indicator and not 3G or EDGE.

strang

@redgreen21: Ummm he points it several times that the Bold is on WiFi.

Ken_Darrow

@phijef: It's coming. Apple just entered this market a few weeks ago. Give them a few months and an update or two. The good thing is, your iPhone can easily update to these additions.

Ken_Darrow

The test is bullshit. The phone is not on the WiFi and this is just FUD spreading bullshit. My WiFi curve loads faster than this, so it means it is using Edge or a crappy 3G connection. Move along people.

redgreen21

Does the Bold come with a magnifying glass?

Shikestarr

Right before your eyes. That display from RIM may have a higher pixel size. Now you see that screen image is all crunched up you can't even see it. Hey but the spec number is higher right? Thats the key with these guys. Post a higher tech number, even though it means worse usability for the user. Boldy Spanked.

Ken_Darrow

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Hang on a second. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

bobdobbs

On second thought... giz I think you need to replicate this test for all the naysayers.

lpranal

There's probably an issue with test: Even my Pearl over EDGE loaded the pages faster than the Bold in this video!

_Surreal_

Not only did the Bold drop to 3G (possibly EDGE) from WiFi, there was only one or two bars of service.

This just in, that was Steve Jobs doing a brilliant but fake British accent.

stopsucking

poor, poor little cute Bold...You´ve been humiliated...

stopitnow54

@strang:
"Members claiming it's only handshaked with WiFi but the connection was dropped. "

I think something like that happened as well. Also, the 3G dropped to EDGE during the test, even though the phones didn't go anywhere. But neither of those are actually "good" news either :p

dogcow

@slaughter33:

"If you browse the web on your phone you are tool."

Especially if you are using a mobile browser that is as shitty as the one found on the Bold.

"At least you can buy a stopwatch in the iApp store..."

Actually, a stopwatch comes with the iPhone pre-installed with the Clock app.

justinpe

Wouldn't you want your phone to automatically go to wifi when it's available?

mdoublej

Oops see PhilR8 above, my link didn't work as planned.

redgreen21

@Ken_Darrow: It did to start with but it is not using it. Whether he pointed it out is irrelevant if it is actually not using it. It obviously either lost the connection or was not using it. The WiFi signal should stay as per this video:

redgreen21

So the Bold not only drops calls like the iPhone 3G, but it also drops wifi connections? At least they get copy and paste, I guess.

justinpe

Even if the connection drop is true, the browser on the BOLD is just plain garbage. No wonder the stats on all these mobile browsers are pathetic and the iPhone and Touch keeps growing.

Ken_Darrow

What a sloppy test. Here's a guy in Toronto with the Bold, loading the same UK page over wifi. Note the difference icons in the top right corner of the screen: the Wifi icon is clearly visible, with arrows indicating data being sent and received.

+ Watch video

In the Mobile Computing Mag "showdown," there are (wildly fluctuating) signal bars with the send/receive arrows - not on wifi.

Let's redo the test and update the review to reflect the new findings, okay Mobile Computer Mag?

PhilR8

I call BS. Before I buy my Bold I will make a note to check out how fast it downloads a page. If it does take a minute per page on wifi, I might be deterred from purchase.

Nottma

Anyone who calls the original iphone is a 2G doesn't know what they are talking about.

Julien321

Nice to hear the Grey Bloke doing something a bit more constructive...

[www.youtube.com]

cbdsteve

This test doesn't make any sense. The Bold is FAR more powerful than the Curve and yet running along side this video using Wi-Fi on a Curve the pages load WAY faster than the video is showing the Bold load even pretty damn close to the iPhone loads.

I would still take this video with a GRAIN OF SALT.
But I guess it is good for the Apple Maniacs to get in their fun

efenili

This guys WiFi is quite slow.... I managed to load the pages on my iPhone much faster than he could.

ipodrulz

Sorry, iPod Touch beats 'em all ;)

brutek

@Shikestarr: Nope, but it comes with copy/paste! OOHHHHHHHH!!!

Joseph

NICE. Makes me feel even better about having a 3G iPhone

NagChampa

I think that lawyer should sue blackberry instead of iPhone... That is crazy fluctuations. Ive never seen anything like that...well i have its EVERY PHONE ON GSM except maybe most NOKIAS and the newer MOTOS.

mrsalty

href="#c7349744">efenili: Exactly. You can easily replicate this whole hoax thing by setting the BB to manually connect, but leave WiFi on. The faded WiFi signal will show when it detects a connection but will not use it until you do it yourself. Or if you have WEP/WPA or whatever on your Wifi and don't save the profile initially it will detect on automatic but won't connect. Again, the guy who made this video is either a complete idiot or is purposefully spreading FUD. It really is simple as that. PS the iPhone/iPod Touch browser is really good, no taking away from that. Handy on my iPod Touch.

redgreen21

@mdoublej:
@Ken_Darrow:

Definitely not! First of all, what if the connection is protected (i.e WEP)? Should it keep trying to connect and ask you for the password? Nope, so that use case is gone.

What about open WIFI spots? Sounds good, but what if the wifi spot is open, but then requires some other form of authorization when browsing (i.e. T-Mobile HotSpots)? So now if I walk by a hotspot like that I have to manually tell my phone to disconnect from it. That use case sucks.

The last use case is where I can set the phone to auto connect to specific wifi connections when available. This is the only one I consider a toss up for discussion. Sure it'd be great when I step inside my apt to automatically jump on WIFI, but that would also be a drain on my battery. That means when I'm not home I need to turn wifi completely off so it isn't always checking to see what hotspots are available, and then when I get home I can turn WIFI back on. This may be a useful case, but requires the user to know to turn wifi on/off.

The last case I like is just having a button I can press to find WIFI spots. This is going to give the user the best experience, best battery life, and a close experience to the desktop. The only thing this solution would lack is the ability to autoconnect, but have it designed so when the user presses the wifi button to connect to any saved locations.

Now I'm not sure which option the bold went with, but I'm definitely hope they never choose to just blindly connect to any wifi or continously poll for wifi spots thereby destroying my battery life.

variaas

OF COURSE the connection dropped...the test is a HOAX to begin with.

Now the iPhone 3G is still a more powerful and better web browser...I don't think you can deny it that crown.
But don't come out with a horrible video trying to pit them against each other and not even play fair...I hope GIZ updates their original TITLE and description

efenili

Not mad just frustrated. People sometimes really talk out of their asses on the comments, and should at least read comments before posting. Only a couple of posts above yours they show the video with the proper connection. And of course the Bold has both automatic and manual connections to Wifi, my God. That other dumb twit Ken_Darrow and you spreading FUD is annoying. You tend to post pro-iPhone anti-Everything else talk all the time and probably just did your knee jerk Apple fanboy post.

redgreen21

@redgreen21:

Also, my iPhone connects to known wifi networks automatically. Are you saying that you have to manually connect to wifi on the Bold?

justinpe

@redgreen21:

Hey man, I'm just going off what the story says:

"UPDATE: CrackBerry is now thinking that the Bold's Wi-Fi connection dropped during the test."

Don't get mad at me.

justinpe

@dcdttu:

Weird you say that, because the iPhone 3G's battery is relatively the same as the Bold's. They are both rated the same for talk and standby time. The only reason the Bold's battery would last longer is because you wouldn't use it as much as the iPhone for battery draining applications such as browsing the web or playing graphically intense games. It's like saying I get better gas mileage because I leave my car in the garage everyday.

Also, not sure where you have been, but the Bold has been experiencing the same 3G connectivity issues/dropped calls as the iPhone. Plus, according to this video, the Bold also drops wifi connections. Great Job!

I'm just sayin'

justinpe

You would want it to go to WiFi but what if you don't have the password set up in your phone? Or your settings are wrong? Do you want it to go to your cell signal? Of course and that is why the Bold didn't connect.

redgreen21

@mdoublej: Yes. If your OS is smart enough to do that. Apparently the BOLD is stupid to do it on it own.

Ken_Darrow

@justinpe: The guy didn't even correctly connect to the WiFi at all! The phone detected a WiFi signal, he didn't connect and went it to 3G/Edge That video is user stupidity or FUD, take your pick along with your comment.

redgreen21

@slaughter33: Safari is based on Webkit. RIM is free to use it if they like.

dingus

@PhilR8: I have no idea why people do not get this and you sound as frustrated as I. For everyone not understanding: A dark WiFi signal on the phone (like PhilR8 video) shows a WiFi signal that has been connected. A grey one like the stupid video shows signal detected but not connected. Is it that difficult to understand?

redgreen21

my edge connection on my iphone is faster than the bold wifi! tested with the slashdot.org site.

AlD

@redgreen21: oh alright I was confused for a second, I thought that it was connected (I never use a BB so Idk how they display wifi usage) But anyways I didn't see the vid 'cause I thought if the wifi icon showed on a BB it was connected. I guess not, because I don't think the wifi icon shows on the iphone when it's not connected to a network. So you're saying it was looking for wifi but never found/wasn't configured with this guy's network?

Sam_Zebian

@Sam_Zebian: Did you watch the video I posted? Obviously not. Wifi may have been on, but was not being used to load the page. Again, watch the youtube video I posted to see how the Bold would look if it were usuing WiFi to load the page.

PhilR8

Straight from AT&T
# Grey Wi-Fi indicator: The Wi-Fi network connection is turned on, but the RIM BlackBerry is not connected to a Wi-Fi network.
NOTE: All service related functions will not work over Wi-Fi.

redgreen21

@mdoublej: Hell no - your battery would be dead in an hour. When you need it, turn on wifi and connect. When you don't need it, turn off wifi and conserve battery life.

PhilR8

@Sam_Zebian: Of course the WiFi is on, but the Bold is not using it. See the youtube video earlier for the proper set up using WiFi. The WiFi signal shows in the corner when the browser is using it.

redgreen21

@barkolounger: The BS on this video is frankly unrelated to much of what you posted. Read again, they have either purposefully or stupidly not set up the WiFi on the Bold correctly. Since you didn't even seem to get that simple point when you have "tested" the phone, I am calling bullshit on the rest of your post. And the chances are even if you are telling the truth, you are using pre-production models with old firmware. And finally after everything, everyone not happy with the on board browser can simply install another: Opera Mini works great.

redgreen21

The Bold is bouncing between EDGE and 3G. The bold is clearly not using wifi because you can hear the GSM buzz...

wcnghj

SEE... I was right all along. I know my tech and that looked way off. It was loading on 3G/Edge not wifi. I get a cookie!

theMOE

@PhilR8: He clearly shows that wifi is on at the end of the video and said that the wifi is on but the icon wasn't being shown.

Sam_Zebian

He said these sights have never been viewed though they are in the browsing history of both phones...WTF!!!!!

mrsalty

For all those calling BS on this vid I have bad news. I work for a large company (160 ppl in this office) and there are two Bolds being ogled over. The browser experience on WiFi and data are both notably slooow. I think BB can remedy some of the speed with a firmware update but the difference between the Bold and the iPhone can't be bridged without more miraculous software or rewrite of the browser from the bottom up. From my very limited experience with it, switching apps is a little sticky/laggy. The OS looks pretty on the outside (at root levels), but a little binary, bitmappy once you drill into each app a screen or two (menus, text size and display, 8bit icons etc...)

BB has borrowed heavily from iPhone on the surface (metal bezel, black polished plastic, touch screen) but not enough of the intrinsic (desktop class OS, ease of use UI, high hardware standards)

iPhone isn't without its blemishes and flaws but BB's answer isn't going to stop the migration of users from BB to iPhone- this phone will be reviewed against and compared to the iPhone many many times in the near future. BB fan boys may want to avoid the news for a month or so.

Sorry BB fanboys, I was once a BB user too.

barkolounger

@ppiddy: because their software works.

Rodime

What I noticed was the Bold choking on scripts for a majority of the time. It didn't seem like it was as much of an issue of downloading the content. Scripts on the client side are usually just a few lines of code per page. The Bold's client didn't seem to handle the scripts well at all, regardless of Wi-fi.

Akibake-

@redgreen21: Better communication tool? ahaha... methinks you need to visit the apps store more often. Make sure you check it out by the end of this year. It's going to be an amazing experience for iPhone users.

Ken_Darrow

I'll happily wait an extra 20 seconds for a site to load on the Bold for proven stability, reliability, true push email, copy/paste, Blackberry Messenger, RIM's habit of releasing software updates including major new updates for ever (I just put OS 4.5 on a 8700g), voice dialing over bluetooth and on and on.

I completely agree that the iPhone is the best mobile web browser on the market, hands down. For everything else though it plain sucks monkey's balls.

mobilehavoc

@Ken_Darrow: I will just call you what you are: a fanboy. (BTW, the correct saying is not "Proof is in the pudding" it is "the proof of the pudding is in the eating"). The browser would appear to be better, I will give you that. But I highly doubt you have even touched the BB one before or one at all. The UI is not that far from the iPhone (grid vs. grid, though slightly faster with the direct touch screen, but just as customizable if not more so) the email client is way better (my SMS, emails, IM all appear in one screen, instantly) the phone calling is better. The internet browsing experience/media is better with an iPhone/iPod Touch, which is why I use the Touch, but for everything else my BB is better. It is a better communication tool in nearly every way.

redgreen21

[www.engadget.com]

stinkyboy

@Sam_Zebian: No problem about it. (I am just frustrated) Correct, it showed that it had found a WiFi signal available but it was not ever connected to it for whatever reason (take your pick ;P). The WiFi on iPhone/iPod Touch is either on or off which is why I see you were confused. My iPod Touch just shows on/off.

redgreen21

Call me whatever you want. The proof is in the pudding. BB browser experience sucks, UI sucks, wifi is slower, basically for internet use, thee BB sucks.

Ken_Darrow

@theblackdog: Even if it did switch from Wifi to 3G, no one prompted it to, so it became slow entirely on its own accord. Ie. Bold sucks. roflpwnd

pardyhardy

The BOLD was never connected to a WiFi spot, the WiFi was only turned on.
The 3G icon is seen since the video starts showing that 3G is active and was the mode of connectivity.

Also we don't know which software version was used on the BOLD, it could of been an old release that RIM could have fixed or not. You just gotta think about all the other possibilities.

Derek Devine

BTW Apple PLEASE fix the email section to type in landscape! I imagine both SMS/Email users would really appreciate it! Stupid not to use that screen like that.

redgreen21

@Ken_Darrow: I did on my iPod touch and immediately downgraded by to my jailbroken 1.14 (not an easy thing). I went through page after page of stuff that already worked better on my stable BB: e.g. Facebook or was simply crap. Can you access all your email on one screen? How about IM in the background? How about MMS? How bout even put the screen into landscape to type for the iPhone? I go on periodically to see if I want to upgrade and have not yet found one communication tool that would be worthwhile.

redgreen21

Hey Matt,
Why add the truth in an 'update' instead of actually fixing the article?

If the video is BS then the article is VERY misleading.

TKWarrior

I am a iphone 3g user so i am biased but you can here the bold start to use its GSM edge radio partway through the test. I've been told that UMTS does not have that interference so it must be EDGE. That's not a fair fight but at the beginning of the test the bold is on wifi and you do not see the tester turn it off so either the bold is ridiculously slow on wifi or it just has crap wifi reception.

tubsdouglas

Poor redgreen21. Still fighting the losing battle. You need to learn comprehension when you read. I said by the end of the year and forward all the junk you pull out of your hat today, will be moot tomorrow. It's a sad future for you. Enjoy your enterprise email... thats about all it will continue to barely innovate. The rest is just copying Apple. Badly at that.

Ken_Darrow

redgreen: I was wrong to defend the video- its looking more like the tests were not fairly conducted.

Calling the rest of my post post BS? Your perogative. None of my insights were terribly deep, observations really. Can't really claim to have tested the Bold but just observed in real life not much more than you'll find in online vids.

I work for a web development company owned by Microsoft, and we see a fair share of pre-release hardware and software. You were right about early firmware, I said as much in my original post. I try to be independent when it comes to advocating or defending tech.

Sorry if I struck a nerve. Just remember its a device- a hunk of plastic and circuits, not worth getting in a huff over, k?

barkolounger

What people may be missing is that for a 12 month development
cycle and a pure reactive design to the iPhone, this Bold is an amazing effort.

By comparison, Apple spent a horde of R&D and more than 2 and a half years bringing the iPhone from concept to reality.

Just sayin'

barkolounger

@pardyhardy: @tubsdouglas:
You 2 obviously aren't reading this thread. The WiFi turned on using the Bold but NEVER used. If you notice another poster showed the what it looks like when WiFi is actually use in a video.
The greyed out WiFi logo you see in this video just shows it is on.

So whatever your arguments may be, the Bold did not DROP a WiFi connection, it was NEVER using one.

Just to clarify since you guys can't seem to read

efenili

not really fair when the iphone only gets text and photo while the bold getws text, photos, and java. most of it's time was geting javascripts.

aeroworks

@barkolounger:

Uh, except RIMs CEO claims the BOLD has been in development for THREE years, not 12 months, and he had a prototype in 2006. Other than that, great point. :p

[gizmodo.com]

dogcow

i dont know any blackberry users who use it to use the internet. Mostly texting while driving. Iphones are bought to use the internet

tkohrs2002

@falandil:

When on 3G - 3G iPhone does not cause the speaker interference issue.

When using 2G, you still get the same old buzzing.

MINI Driver

@barkolounger:
It is right in my previous reply. Here is the original:
[news.cnet.com]

dogcow

Well, in terms of speaker intereference, every single cell phone I've ever owned has caused speaker interference. I thought it was unavoidable.

Though, to be fair, I got an iPhone 3G last night and haven't really used it around speakers yet, so I'm not sure if it causes any or not.

falandil

dogcow: All I could dig up was the Press release which had nothing about the development cycle. Are you sure it was 3 years?

I'd think that admitting to spending more money and more time to develop a device that's not exactly equal to the competition might not be in a company's best interests.

Please post a link to the news/source.
Curious and like to learn more.

barkolounger

LMMacAO!

The conspiracy theories as to why the BB really isn't a POS are hilarious to read.

And that's completely ignoring the BB's awful UI, crappy screen, and lousy form factor.

Welcome to 2008 BB - you're at least 5 years out of date!

MINI Driver

@aeroworks: Javascript is turned on by default on the iPhone.

Tank

Despite my real world observations being called BS and being told I can't read I'm going back on point. These are cellphones, so please lose the chip on the shoulder in order to discuss intelligently and from an objective point of view.

From my OWN observations, the Bold IS slower in respect to internet browsing compared to the Jesus phone- both on WiFI and data. It's OS isn't as responsive or fluid as the Jesus phone. The OS visual details and usability aspects aren't as refined as on the Jesus phone. Aside from all of this, it is still a drool-worthy device that doesn't have alot of competition.

barkolounger

Bet Android could kick the iPhone's ass. Freedom over fascism! (Yes, the iPhone is fascist. Let the flames roar!)

SgtToastie

@Ken_Darrow: Apple is the one still catching up in features and basic communication, not RIM. Their innovation is to have a slightly better interface, browser. That is pretty much it. What else is there that hasn't been done before? Just like a Apple fanboy, banking on the future. (Next firmware they will have copy paste! Next time they will have working 3G! Apple adds basics like they are innovations and people believe the hype, frankly it is sad.) The Bold has all of those things now and a working, stable interface that has been working for years, now with better graphics. Talk to me at the end of the year when you get the rest on your iPhone. I bet you will still be waiting.

@barkolounger: My thing is if you can't get one thing right, the first thing you state, I have to call BS on the rest. The video is wrong, and adding anecdotal evidence does not help your case. I know what you said was your opinion, but I question its legitimacy. The device I could frankly care less about, I like both sides for different reasons (hence by BB/iPod Touch combo). The uninformed statements and downright lies plus the unwarranted hype are different (not to say you lied, but obviously others are). And today I am frankly not in the mood for either. :p

redgreen21

@CCM333: Apple Fanboys = Stupid people. So that's not possible.

iPhone is very speedy.. it's one of the things I liked the most while testing it.
They should do a 3G test too. If Blackberry's browser gets released this slow, browsing iPhone with 3G might be better only because of that.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

Hey redgreen21, if the Bold is good and its browser is sooooo good then explain this. Geee I don't see no BB there at all. ahahaha

Found it at Engadget ( sorry giz )

Top 25 mobile / non-desktop devices hitting engadget.com (Jan 1, 2008 - Aug 20, 2008)

1. Apple iPhone - 79.8%
2. Apple iPod Touch - 16.0%
3. Nintendo Wii - 1.1%
4. HTC P3650 (aka Touch Cruise) - 0.5%
5. Nokia N95 8GB - 0.4%
6. Nokia N95 - 0.3%
7. HTC X7500 - 0.2%
8. LG VX10000 Voyager - 0.2%
9. Nokia E90 - 0.2%
10. Nokia N82 - 0.1%
11. Nokia E51 - 0.1%
12. Nokia N95-3 NAM - 0.1%
13. Palm Treo 755p - 0.1%
14. Nokia E61 - 0.1%
15. Sony PlayStation Portable - 0.1%

Ken_Darrow

@Ken_Darrow: you douche thats cuase the bold came out on the 21st loser and everybody knows that the bb device is a work horse its gonna take more then a fake ideo to take that away i dont own either i played with the iphone and it is what out a doubt a really impressive phone. but is it a jesus phone no, and frankly i think anyone who believes that deserves to burn in hell. the iphone is just a hype device i garauntee they wont be able to keep the hype up. im getting tired of hearing all this hype about apple, its all bs yeah there devices looks nice but majority is all hype and alot of these people on this forum probably does not even have the 3g i phone or even played with the bb bold. how can you bash something with out trying it thats like saying oh that girls P@#%$Y is bad even though you never hit that i mean come on every body knows you can judge a book by its cover you cant say a ps3 is better then a xbox 360 till you have both you cant say a bold is better till you have the iphone. i have to agree with the person who said that who ever uses there internet is a tool to a certain exstant hes right. come on half you guys are on att with the iphone you only have like 5 or 6 gb before its capped you probably dont use it that much if so you need to get your damn life together now im ok with people going in to starbucks and using there laptop but if i seen someone pull there iphone out and try to browse the internet like it was a laptop i would spit coffee in there face. think about it dude your screen is the same size as my palm you cant possibly enjoy that get at me when yall are in to bigger and better things.

charger08

@charger08: Uhhh no duh Sherlock. Let me point it out to you no BB on the list. New, current, old nada period. Whatever browser it uses... zero.

1. Apple iPhone - 79.8%
2. Apple iPod Touch - 16.0%

Ken_Darrow

@Ken_Darrow: What does that have to do with anything? What statistics did they use? Or did you or Engadget just make it up. Either way, Engagdet is not exactly the most reputable source for any statistics. They are a consumer gadget rumour and news website that has a known Apple bias. That list mean nothing, just like your comments and opinion.

redgreen21

redgreen, your passion for the BB platform will not change the reality of the disparity in internet speed, your passion for the BB platform will not make the OS less laggy, your passion for the BB platform will not make the underlying interface finishes and usability more refined.

Calling BS on people's posts and generally behaving in a petty and dismissive manner won't have any impact on these realities either.

Attempting to debunk a person's observations defies logic. It would be like, me trying to convince you that when you look up, its not a blue sky you're seeing but rather a green one. That you're getting more and more upset because myself and other commenters won't directly engage you is telling.

barkolounger

@Ken_Darrow: Nice stats Ken!

Of course BB don't need no stinking stats - just look how far their pagers have come in 10 years! LMMacAO!!

MINI Driver

@Ken_Darrow: Ken Darling, here is straight from the horse:
"BB users are automatically sent to the mobile version at m.engadget.com, which doesn't feed into the full-site stats. Some BB users override that, but so few do that RIM ranks way, way down the list."

So, shut the fuck up.

eismcsquare3

@Ken_Darrow: You are wrong. That's not counting all the devices they are redirecting to engadget mobile. So, those stats filter out all the BB devices. Get your facts right before jumping up and down with Job's dick in your arse. That's Lam's job.

eismcsquare3

Humm... so, Gizmodo reports a complete FUD story, and once enough damage is done, provides some lame updates? Time has not changed much. Great job, Matt!

eismcsquare3

Blackberry 8700g: finishes a little faster then the Bold. My phone does not have 3g, neither WiFi, so I must conclude that WiFi is not used by the Bold at all.

QuimbyKapla

To PhilR8.,

I just did a side by side with your posted video to the same site using my 1st gen iphone on wifi and not only finished loading the page in exactly half the time but within 10 seconds I was able to read articles and zoom scroll resize and view pics on the page while the rest was loading. While the Bold is completely blank and unusable until the complete page is rendered. Sloppy sloppy.

Seems anyway you slice it, the Bold gets the crap kicked out of it.

cudadown

Bad test. I tried the same test during the video to load the same pages using the Bold on a 3G network and the pages loaded faster than the iPhone or Bold in the video test. I wonder if there is a WiFi issue or what. I think the test is not valid given my experiment. I plan on trying the same test on WiFi when I get home (Bold versus iPhone).

KatrinaLamia

Definitely something wrong with the test. My Blackberry Curve 8320, loads those pages a fraction of a second faster than the iphone. I am, however, using Operamini (I don't use the default browser, so that's the only comparison I care about.)

Kane317

wow ok first of all this test was total bs. I am a current owner of a Blackberry Curve and what MOST of you don't know is that when the blackberry detects wifi connection WHILE the edge/3g is still open, the wifi connection is NOT used. the only way to know if its using EDGE or WIFI is if there is an icon on the upper right of the browser! CURVE OR BOLD! if the wifi icon is not there its using EDGE/3G VERY POOR TEST. Please don't always believe what you see, take things with a grain of salt.

jkompressor

Sorry guys.. but the bold isn't on wifi in this test 1> you can't see the wifi logo in the browser window @ all 2> you can hear the EDGE gsm interference noise in the movie.. EEEeeeeEEEEeeeeEEEeeeee the bold is connected to Wifi, but it's not connected properly, as evidenced by what i posted above

KeithBanks

Never verified they were on the same network, not all networks were created equally. They were both on WiFi and i suspect they were on the same network just mentioning it. Love me iPhone.

DrDonkeyKong

The bold can turn its 3G radio off, just like the Curve and the 8800. Why was the Blackberry switching between 3G and EDGE? Are we sure this test is fair?

Thracks

Well that was pathetic, as a blackberry pearl owner I can attest to the fact that the default browser sucks. However, downloading opera mini was a huge improvement. Id like to a comparison between opera and safari, I think it would be much more competitive.

brent98