@jkr2: I appreciate your candor, and I agree completely. I want to get under that dress and see how this baby ticks.

SinAmos

@GeekyNerdGuy:
Because there is no hardware explanation for macs being better.

When the mac had separate hardware it was easy to argue. When a hacker can now take OSX and crack it to run on a $500 Vista laptop you see that argument go away.

To Apple the OS is worth $1500 and the computer is throw away.

Techguy1138

@jkr2: Great analogy. End of discussion. Windows is a whore and Mac is a pampered bitch who won't swallow.

Hectorvex

@Aoi: With everything there is going to be people who care about how they treat their stuff and there are going to be people who beat it to all hell. I still use my 5 year old Powerbook everyday and it runs like the day I got it( with 2GB upgrade of ram). I assume you are also a person who maintains their computer because they want it to last.

FutureBear

You can upgrade a mac, where does this stereotype come from, my old PowerMac G4 had a HDD upgrade, RAM upgrade, Graphics Card upgrade, and even was considering a Processor upgrade (and yes they do exist)before I changed it for a laptop. Even now you can upgrade current iMac, they open up and you can easily replace the HDD and RAM, you could probably go ad far as a processor upgrade seeing as it's only held in there with a ZIF socket, I just don't know of anybody doing it (I would but I but a new computer at least every three years when the warranty is up).

Most PC users I know don't upgrade their machines till they buy a new one, I think it's the minority who do this sort of thing because the one I know would be scared to poke around inside of their computer.

LividChihuahua

@dandaman247: So true. Thank you. You can buy a similar model in an Apple version for 10,000 Euros.

SinAmos

Also, what about the word AVERAGE do some of the readers not understand...

whydoyouwork

@Viva La Volvo: Pretty amazing u must be able to time travel with it.

GDUB

@CrashingOut: Did you use a car battery and call it a laptop?

Hectorvex

@SinAmos:
You're half right: just "Booo."

BTS.WRKNG

@Blinklink11: 1/8 of the problems for 3 times in a premium. I like your style. Keep spending that dough.

SinAmos

correction: i do believe that hp is purdy damn sexy! no homo...

dandaman247

This reply is full of things that are technically true, but in the end utterly useless.

Log1c

Well we have come to the inevitable Mac vs. PC argument. It can be summed up by an analogy to a chastity belt. Using the OS X is like putting a chastity belt on a woman. It simplifies things. The woman has to attractive, elegant, witty, and the overall experience w/ her must be positive or else you wouldn't bother w/ her at all. The problem is at the end of the day, you want to get past the window dressing. You want full access. You want to push the envelope of her capabilities, and maybe even get some back door access. Now you can more or less get this kind of access w/ a Mac, but it takes a lot of effort, and by the time you've gone through all of the hoops, you've probably lost interest. Enter Windows. You get all of this. But the experience is gritty. What's more, everybody and their brother has already had a once go round w/ her. Windows is more like the hooker on the corner, and you also have to deal w/ all the viruses she's accumulated. Enter Linux. Linux is kind of the Utopian free love that we all wish we had. Everything is open and known. Linux is willing to do anything (and I mean anything) you want. You can teach her things, but she already knows most every method. And she virus free. Heck, she even has her own naughty store called Ubuntu.

jkr2

And is infinitely better (I dont know why I used to be a windows kid)

Blinklink11

if mac did sell a more budget minded pc (mini is a bit overpriced), they would prolly convert a few more people. More people would be able to try it out. And once they like it theyll spend more $$$.

urbanturban666

I'd like to see Apple just TRY and make this...

[www.newegg.com]

and sell it for that price! (ooo...it's NOT sexy what is life coming too!!)

dandaman247

I don't know. I think I'd rather pay double for a Mac when it has 1/8 of the problems.

Blinklink11

For what it's worth, this above all else will forever be true: the market will bear what the buyer will pay.

novacthall

@theheff: yeah, and its stupid they don't. I just built an excellent computer for DIRT CHEAP, like literally mobo+CPU was under 70, its a crappy celeron, and what do you know, it boots up vista on a gig quick as can be, and aero is slick as you want on integrated graphics. So screw crapintosh and their overpriced everything(I used a copy of vista I already had, and "manipulated" its WGA/registration-Even cheaper!). The 200 dollar price point is hard to beat; prices for a baseline computer that you are building can be massively cut by reusing old disk and hard drives, new cpu's and motherboards and the ram are at new highs for value and lows for pricing. This doesn't hold with anything fruity, glossy, and white.

CrashingOut

@iomatic: Dang right. Thanks for admitting it. Apple carries semi-automatic glossy finished guns to everyone's head. They have an easy trigger for quick shooting, but if the gun every jams, you are completely FRACKED.

SinAmos

Next: Why the iPhone OS is so much better than Windows Mobile even though the iPhone costs waaaayy mor... oh wait, the iPhone costs about the same as any smartphone running Windows Mobile!

(all in good fun, I don't even have an iPhone or a windows mobile phone)

FutureBear

@generalassembly: In their comparison it does.

GeekyNerdGuy

A person can also get a mini-tower case, slap some garage sale components in it and add a monitor and a car battery, install free dos on it and call it a laptop for 1/6th the price of a macbook pro..... does that make it a better purchase ?

Dollar for dollar if you need reliability, user experience, and high end components in a sexy sexy package you can't go wrong with the macbook.

<-- this is coming from someone who has 2 windows laptops, and 2 personal windows PCs in the same apartment, and the macbook pro is the best purchase I have ( and my macs in general have been the best purchase in the past 8+ years )

StarControl

ok so theres a premium? so what, i prefer the physical looks of a macbook, i prefer the OS, i dont particularly like windows, and freeware just slows t down too much to make it worth while that and the aliminum is actually pretty damn durable compared to plastic...

drallac

@dingus: Because we all know they are called UNIX attacks and not DOS. Sure, acronyms line for a reason, right? Deny me another, big brother.

SinAmos

@FutureBear: I've had my pc for 4 years and the last time I checked (a week or so ago) I didn't have any viruses or spamware on it. A lot of it has to do with who is in front of the keyboard. PICNIC (Problem In Chair Not In Computer)

Aoi

@iomatic: They took our jobbbbbbs!!!

I've always thought about buying a MAC, but I like to take things apart and make them better. I don't get that feeling I can do that with a MAC. Plus, I don't think it would match my portable Calculator Watch/Toaster.

Hectorvex

im shocked.

th4tkid

@Bluesk1d: Also remember that the Dell doesn't come with a monitor included...

generalassembly

@BTS.WRKNG: Booohooo?
@cloudnine: Yeah, I have a 700 dollar Lenovo with 2 gigs of ram and measely duo 1.67 pentium with Vista, and I run MAYA, Premiere, After Effects, and everything I'm not supposed to because I have integrated graphics, but it kicks a@@. How about those apples? Oh, I have 15 inches of goodness. I love this PC laptop. Oh, and never have I had a problem with VISTA.

SinAmos

@itchytooth,@The Turtle, @Rand:

Boomski.

@SinAmos: Hostage, yeah. Apple has put a gun to our heads so often! They're terrrists!

budget PC users: get your damned camaro off the blocks, and get out of my neighborhood. heh.

iomatic

From the objective of the study, it is fair. And the Dell comparison is just that. Hardware v.s. Hardware and Apple will always lose... Now that they are running Intel inside, and Nvidia, it's easy to see why they did this study, especially with the emergence of such things as the DNS issue, solid state drives, and ultra-portables.

In the end, the only thing that Apple has over Sony, Dell, etc is the fact that I live in Chicago and having an Apple store close, has been fantastic. Yes, I still use a Windows machine with a honking 8gb ram, 8800tgx, 2tb internal, 76gb being 10k rpm raid, etc... But if I bought that setup from any manufacturer, it would cost ridiculous amount of money.

For those who say "i built my own for $$$$ and it's way better than a mac", yay for you, but until you get in the business of building such machines, creating an operating system, and a pretty solid set of software for OTHER PEOPLE, don't be naive and if you know better don't be arrogant, because that argument works against anyone who pays someone to build their computer for them.

Apple focuses it's marketing on people with money, they always have, they always will, because their market will always have money, creative agencies will always prefer Apple, etc.

Maybe some of these commentators should discuss how they have a Honda Civic that can do 0-60 in 4.5 instead of getting the Ferrari too, that would be just as fun and intelligent, obvious studies or not, facts need to be put down on paper so businesses can make decisions, not poor DIY ;).

BTW, Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit on the home rig, 17' MacBook Pro for work... Love both indefinitely for what they are.

whydoyouwork

There really is no point to this discussion if they compare anything from an 80486 or an eeePC to a MacBook, and then call the price double.
The comparison between the Dell and the iMac may hold more merit, but it doesn't account for the fact that the Apple computer uses different components in terms of quality, comes with a superior operating system, and just plain looks better.
Now really, you could go and buy the cheapest, skankiest, lamest DAP out there, or you can shop for a quality product and go with a Samsung, or an Archos, or an Apple.

So all this study goes to show is that while yes, statistical analysis can entertain the notion there exists a link between the extinction of pirates and the increased rate of global warming, that doesn't necessarily make it right.

Hvedhrungr

@HawkSkater0: Again, nothing is wrong with comparing apples to oranges. I just said this a couple days ago.

If you had a problem with comparing apples and carburators or apples and the gross domestic product of Sweden, I'd understand, but to my way of thinking, their both popular seasonal fruit of the same size and weight from which juice can be made.

OMG! Ponies!

How come every time I make this argument to my friends they tell me that I "just don't understand" and insist that Macs are still better?

GeekyNerdGuy

@SinAmos: Quick: which one comes out of the box with GCC and ssh: PCs or Macs? I'll give you a hint: real hackers use UNIX.

dingus

My $349 gateway laptop runs Leopard just as well as a macbook does, and it has all the same hardware specs. Damn thing cost less than my iPhone.

Quatre707

THE
EARTH
IS
ROUND

Ariel_Wollinger

@SinAmos: I'm just stating facts, I'm not saying one or the other is better, Macs have their place and so do PCs. Personally I would like Apple to continue to stay at about 3-4% the market so I don't have to worry about "hackers" if you want to call a spammer a hacker.

FutureBear

i'm glad i paid $1700 for my 12" powerbook in september 2005... I still use it and there's not a scratch on it and it runs perfectly (i even run final cut studio and adobe cs2 on it with no hiccups) :) that's a lot more than i can say for the NEC laptop I was using prior... heh.

cloudnine

Hmmmm, I thought I was visiting a gadget blog, but after a quick glance at the top stories here it seems I've accidentally stumbled upon the Apple Fan Baiting Blog of Trolls and Haters instead. My bad! I won't let it happen again, I ASSURE YOU.

BTS.WRKNG

@generalassembly: Hmmmm, and I've had my desktop PC for years and years and years. Oh, and I upgraded it seamlessly without a problem even though the specs are pitiful, but can you say that about a mac. Nooooooooooo!. A MAC holds you hostage to no UPGRADES so you have to go and buy another one over and over again. Hmmm. Their business model is great, for them. Yeah, like your IPOD that has a shelf life of maybe 2 years. How many of those suckers burnt out. They are running a business, not a charity.

SinAmos

Having worked in development at the often mentioned "cheap PC" provider let me say we always whined that we were not allowed to use the materials Apple did. I mean come on... comparing a Dell tower system (a sheet metal box) to an iMac? Please....there is a lot more that goes into the cost of a computer than just the marketing bullets. The iMacs are pricey because to make them costs a lot. And yes thats Apple's choice to make them that way, but if we don't want to pay that much for them....we have other options.

Rand

@ Everyone boohooing about crappy e-machines and the like being included in the average: Those are still the smae hardware you find in a Mac so deal with it. If you still don't like the low end pieces-o-junk being in the argument, just look at the first example "where a Dell Inspiron 518 tower nearing the $700 mark features two more processor cores, three times as much memory, and twice the hard drive space of an $1,199 entry-level iMac despite both coming with near-equivalent LCDs."

Just deal with it, you are buying the name and some exclusivity. If you had any sense and simply prefer OSX, youd make a hackintosh and save $100s or $1000s. "Style" is no excuse for raping the consumer.

Bluesk1d

I spec out computers all the time for work. When I spec a PC, Dell, Gateway, HP etc I get a similar price to a Mac with the same performance. For our budget user stations the Pc is cheaper because I can spec low end models with integrated graphics etc.

WilCon

Why don't they talk longevity and resale value?

Apple's hold their value (especially the last model PPC and Intels) extremely well, compared to any Dell or etc. Just take a look at craigslist or ebay and you'll see what I mean.

dr_time

@shorty63136: Study = guy in front of PC on Amazon.com for ten minutes. LOL

Macs bewilder me. I like 'em and all, but I don't feel that the aluminum case, with extremely tight tolerances and excellent finish make up for such huge price discrepancies. Many people cite the added value of the extra software that Apple bundles in, but for me things like Garage Band and the like are as worthless as shovelware.

I use a Mac at work and a PC running XP at home and I don't think I could ever be convinced to switch, and I'm a designer! We're supposed to like Macs as far as I understand it.

wiggatron

Because Apple charges out their ass for their OS and you can't put it on computers not made by them. Explanation found!

SgtToastie

@HawkSkater0: Yeah, but Bentley doesn't directly compete with Honda. Mac competes directly with PC. Haven't you watched any TV the last 2 years and seen those delightful commercials? So it is a valid comparison. MAC just doesn't happen to offer any lower priced models like you can find in the PC world, they are strictly at the higher end. So it's more like comparing a VW bus with a working transmission to a VW Superbeetle with a milk crate for a passenger seat.

Hectorvex

the "no shit, sherlock" study.

hiimcliff

Here's the guts of it: there are no low-end Apples. Even the Mac Mini is built above the basement. Sure, there are buttloads of cheap-ass HPs, Gateways and Dells out there in the laptop world, but there are also plenty of gamer laptops reviewed in these very pages that top at over four large. In my experience, at the bottom end of the PC laptop ranges, you find missing features or a machine stuffed with bloatware that slows the show down. Apple has none of that.

The unquantifiable stuff is what sells me: it's worth a little money to have a machine that always works, that when you pop the lid and comes out of sleep, it's ready to do something in five seconds, not 45. It's worth it not to have to reinstall the OS every six months like clockwork. It's worth it not to have to spend money on antivirus software. And it's worth it not to cut my hand beating the crap out of some PC that decided to die for no particular reason.

The Turtle

@theheff: Agreed. I considered a Dell XPS1330 to replace my old Linux-running HP but ultimately got a 2.1 Penryn C2D Macbook. It felt far sturdier although it was comparably priced for roughly the same features. Plus, OSX meant that I wouldn't have to spend hours screwing with drivers rebuilding kernels to get things like power management and video just right.

dingus

Seems to be working for Steve-o's business model, obviously not for everyone, which is why choice is great :D

trendspotter

@venomous_duck41: cool it dude. It's his opinion that a Mac is twice the computer, and one I happen to agree with. There is a whole lot more that goes into a total computing experience than just specs. The OS, software, durability, etc. have to be factored in.

generalassembly

@kahri:

But they're illegal.

But seeing how most people have to hack Apple to get their satisfaction, go right again.

Cursemaster0

@FutureBear: Yeah, because mac users are still a small percentage of users and it would be only common sense that would tell you that haxors are more likely to use a pc because they know what the F--- they are doing. Who hacks on a MAC? Seriously now? MACs are easy buttons dressed up in slick finishes. They are NEWBSeeeCeees.

SinAmos

Why did it take a study to confirm this?

PC+Mac Coexist

@OMG! Ponies!: i think they did that on their own with the last line.

"Sooner or later, they'll need to appeal to those cheap idiots as well."

venomous_duck41

@SinAmos: That's just not true. As others have noted, Macs tend to last longer than comparable PCs. I'd love to see a study on that. I've had PC laptops before, and had to replace them after a couple years. I've now had my MBP since launch, and it still works great.

generalassembly

they should do a "study" where they see the average amount of spamware and viruses on a PC and compare it to the average amount on a Mac. You get what you pay for people. I'm pretty sure macs have about double the lifespan of the average PC as well.

FutureBear

You all fell for the Gizmodo "Click Bait" (me including)

pipper

@xashinx: It could be 2.5 times the price, 2.9 times the price, etc. It's a way of not having to do the math...

elgilicious

No way! a psystar is only $400.

kahri

you get what you pay for.

chaos421

A big part of the reason is that PCs begin devaluing before they're even off the shelf, while Macs stay pretty close to MSRP and then devalue slower on the used market. Another part of it is that Apple doesn't have a plain, midrange Mac to compete with all the $300 plain-box Dells. Apple's supposed entry level - the Mini - is expensive because it uses laptop parts and fairly impressive amount of engineering to make it so compact. If you want unmade utilitarian Mac, go here: [forum.insanelymac.com]

itchytooth

@Eruanno: MACs aren't sexy once you get to know them. Then all the allure is gone and you realize they are just as empty as any overpriced street worker with a shiny,white toothy-smile.

SinAmos

@justinpe: you were just proved wrong in the article above, try reading before you say something dumb next time.

venomous_duck41

Yeah, but the PC comes with Vista...

Personally, my favorite operating system is Ubuntu Linux (it's so much more powerful and with a much better user experience, IMHO). However, I gladly pay a premium for a Mac for my wife and my daughter. It's so much easier to support.

I only support Windows at my consulting rates.

gunnk

@lostarchitect: exactly.

generalassembly

@OMG! Ponies!: Gizmodo is a bunch of freakin fanboys

and btw, "average"? does this mean they did a comparison between PC's and Mac's that have the same features?

tucker

yeah probably true. but then, why should apple change? just think the mess other luxury or near-luxury brands have reaped on themselves for trying to over do mainstream (eg. merc and their A-class crap and a starbucks every other freak'n store). I think people get that buying apple is not just about specs, as it is also about asthetic design and in some applications, total reliability. if you're trying to maximize specs per dollar, you're better off building your own clone anyway, and not getting a dell (which gives cheapo components).

datsui

You are comparing the price of Apple computer to the price of EVERY PIECE OF CRAP that calls itself a computer...

Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics...

sfokevin

@DMF: No, I think this needs to be re-stated over and over again until those thick-skulled consumers get the fact they are buying a NAME.

SinAmos

@KeithJ: Haha, I'd love to live in the world where that was the end of the discussion.

PipeRifle

@mr30gZune:
excuse me
*gasp*
*softly* garra!

mr30gZune

my 2002 ibook still works great while my 2000 toshiba laptop wasnt really working by 2002. yeah, toshiba was cheaper but became trash pretty soon.

josecardozo

HAhahahaa @ all the "this is not fair" comments..

DMF

In the end, who the hell cares. People will spend their money on what they want to spend it on. End of discussion.

KeithJ

Oh, and also, don't ever buy RAM from Apple. EVER.

Eruanno

*gasp*
Gara!

mr30gZune

I agree wholeheartedly that Macs are damn expensive, but I will also say that there is a good reason why my schoolwork is done on my MacBook whereas all the gaming shebang (which there is quite a bit of as well, might I add) goes to ye' olde PC.

Still though, Macs are sexy, and the day my school replaces those steam-driven HP computers in the video editing section with shiny Macs, I will be very, very happy.

Eruanno

Adam posts clearly attacking apple are just plain shit, WHO cares if macs cost more? If you dont want to pay for it dont buy it! its like saying: Bentleys cost more then Hondas, NO SHIT! Stop comparing apples and oranges!

HawkSkater0

@HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak: I'd be one of those Macheads. :) Although I'm currently forced to type away on a Dell, I am most definitely an Apple Fangirl.

shorty63136

I agree when you match component for component, Mac is more expensive. But I don't think its double in price.

As others will inevitably state, you should include software packages as well. To get comparable apps on a PC, you have to add a few dollars.

Finally, there's the unquantifiable "user experience," which you can try to put a dollar value on in productivity, usefulness, time spent troubleshooting, etc.

ARP

I'm not much of an apple fan, but I'll admit, the price you pay for their notebooks is beyond just pure power. It's more of an aesthetic and build thing. Apples are just downright sexier in design and features. If pc notebook makers stepped it up in that department and designed a notebook that can compete with the macbooks in sex appeal, I would imagine they'd be quite popular. Seems to me like Sony is the only notebook maker that is concerned with design, which sucks cuz their laptops are rubbish.

aKed

Style costs something I suppose... It's why people are willing to pay more for designer clothes than for stuff bought at Walmart. PC's are more straight-up utilitarian, but that's not all people are necessarily looking for in a computer these days... Plus, a lot of people actually do prefer working with OSX over Windows, and are willing to pay a bit of a premium to do so...

Odomzig

"Price More That Twice That"?
I'm pretty sure that doesn't make sense =D

xashinx

What, no "Gizmodo is a bunch of fanboys" comment yet?

OMG! Ponies!

@justinpe: Based on what? Certainly not the numbers in the study posted above.

PipeRifle

Apple normally doesn't drop prices on previous models while adding new ones like most PC companies. Apple likes to maintain a consistent price but add new features/upgrades.

So, for instance, when a new macbook comes out with a new chipset, Apple keeps the same price as the previous.

A lot of PC companies like to offer the latest and greatest at a higher price, but still continue to sell the older models at a discounted price.

Shabbis

meh. i built my PC for about 700 and its more machine than any mac.

Viva La Volvo

A have to call a little bs on this. If you take the AVERAGE, that's not really fair. Apple makes high end laptops, even in the MacBook line, that have specs far above those of lower end PCs.

In other words, of course the average Mac price is going to be higher. Apple doesn't make a Celeron notebook. You get a lot more for your buck.

A decent survey would actually compare the ratio of performance to price between brands.

theheff

sooner or later they are just going to have to reduce the prices of their computers or introduce something at a cheaper price point to compete.

lastpulse

that's kind of a useless comparison metric. apple has fewer options, so you're comparing apple pros against not just dell workstations, but also e-machines clunkers which are only for word processing and internet access. when you compare (pardon the phrase) "apples to apples", you'll see a tighter spread, even if the macs do still cost a bit more.

lostarchitect

Where's that Calvin and Jobs toon?

SigmundTheSeaMonster

An interesting read arguing against this at Tom's. They argue that it's apples ridiculous pricing on upgrades that places them at these higher levels, however their base systems are priced competitively.

[www.tomshardware.com]

Jimbles

Also, the average Mac is twice the computer of the average PC.

justinpe

@shorty63136: Not the Macheads who insist that there is no hardware premium for going Apple.

HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak

Yeah Frucci, get your shit together.

But it's nice that it is now a "fact" for all the big mac boys out there.

DMF

no suprise here.

thomusvoo

I smile every time I see that golden mac. Despite being utterly useless, Qtip42's workmanship is the stuff of legend if you have seen any of his other case mods.

FadedSpark

You could justify the price back in the pre Intel days.

reddingofish

I'm sorry - was this information new? And was a "study" warranted?

Anybody who can read a price tag can tell that a Mac costs more than a PC.

shorty63136

In the office we havea 2001 G4 Powermac. It's OS has migrated from 9.0 to 10.4. It's received PCI card additions, added hard drives, more memory, and routinely has multiple SCSI, firewire, and USB peripherals attached at any given time. The display has been replaced twice, and it's outlived its mouse. But the Mac still does whatever the average home or business user could possibly need, and will not be replaced any time in the near future.

My PC-loving friend replaced his computer almost every single time that MS introduced a new operating system.

Yes, people interested in higher-end DURABLE machines buy Apple, while cheap idiots buy DIPOSABLE PCs. If you think you're saving money by replacing a machine every 2-4 years, go ahead and delude yourself.

my favorite car is a motorcycle

@nakdaddy1: @itchytooth: That's more of what I was looking at...the specs in general.

There is an Acer on the egg..that has basically the same components but looks like better quality.

dandaman247

@justinpe: where a Dell Inspiron 518 tower nearing the $700 mark features two more processor cores, three times as much memory, and twice the hard drive space of an $1,199 entry-level iMac despite both coming with near-equivalent LCDs - 3 times the price 5 times the specs, you say?

Munch the BanNail

@justinpe: Really? Are you sure you want to stand behind that argument?

Because this Wal-Mart emachine at $480
[www.walmart.com]

Has pretty comparable specs to this entry iMac at $1200.
[store.apple.com]

GeekyNerdGuy

I own both a PC and a Mac. I haven't had a problem with Vista or Leopard. So why pay the price for a Mac?

Personally, I like the fact that OSX Leopard is exclusive. Unlike Vista, you won't find OSX on a Dell, HP, Compaq, Gateway, Acer, or Asus laptop under normal store bought circumstances.

Secondly, Vista operating systems often come with bloatware and unnecessary, preinstalled applications from third parties. e.g.: your 30 day trial of a game. Although you can request manufacturer only installations, the average consumer will end up with trials and other apps that will never be used.

In terms of performance, you can generally build your own PC at a cheaper cost and have it outperform a Mac at the same price. I would argue that buying a PC may yield different results depending on the manufacturer. Also, because Vista is such a resource hog, one can argue that you'll need a more powerful system to run Vista (depending on the version and how the user uses it) which in terms will drive the cost of the PC up past the price of a Mac, in order to achieve the same benchmarks as OSX. Follow?

Modern macs have very aesthetic builds. They've removed the wires and cables associated with a PC "tower," and essentially fit high performance components in a flatscreen monitor concerning the amount of ram, graphics card, and powerful intel CPU's with their iMac model. Even their laptops, especially Macbook Air, all have a very distinct, modern look of elegance which the consumer shells out more for in my opinion. When you buy a Mac, you're essentially paying for the fact that the Appple logo and name is on it.

People buy macs for this exclusive opportunity of form and factor. Although you pay more, you can still get a workhorse that stands out from the crowd.

As as a side note although I use my Vista PC more than my Mac for programming needs and hardware specs, I do enjoy the Mac because I personally think it was piss easy to setup, while Vista took a little bit of reading and digging into to get it tweaked where I want it. Seting up my AirPort Base Station on a Mac was probably the easiest wireless networking setup I've ever worked with. Both operating systems are visually pleasing, and have applications well suited to the respected operating system. I really don't prefer one over the other, but for ease of use, I do give Mac the one up. For corporate use however, I feel that Vista is still the workhorse operating system.

evangelistc01

@SinAmos: np. Don't get me wrong...I like macs...but the price to hardware ratio is waaaay off idc what the fanboys say. Why should i pay more for the sexy shell?? When I can get a nice dell, hp, or even an acer nowadays with 2x or 3x the performance!

and as for the virus/spamware issues...uhhh...just think before you dl something or click play on that porno video.

dandaman247

140 comments and counting... It must be click sweeps week!!!

sfokevin

@justinpe: Here here. The shelf life is also twice that of the average PC. The resale value is also twice that of the average PC. To total cost of ownership is also more than half LESS than that of the average PC. This is coming from someone who owns and still uses all three major operating systems on Macs, Dells, Toshibas and HP's

jaredgibbs

Of course Apple's are more expensive... where do you guys think they get the money for all the black mock neck shirts?

Joseph

My custom built PC is running an Intel E6850(Dual Core 3GHz Stock Speed) on an EVGA 780i SLI Board with 4GB of DDR2 Ram and an EVGA 8800gts 512. This baby runs all the games that I throw at it on high setting INCLUDING Gears of War, Supreme Commander, Unreal Tournament 3, Bioshock, Team Fortress 2 and CRYSIS.

Best thing of all is that this rig only cost me $700.....

Evangelion

@justinpe: you might wish to re-read the article, specifically near the end.

jkr2

@PipeRifle:

Hmm, let's see here. Let's stack a Wal-Mart sold e-Machine up against a Mac. The Mac will cost 3 times as much, but will also have 5 times the specs. Apple doesn't make low end models, so of course the average price is going to be twice as high when the PC category includes eMachines, Compaq, Acer, and low end Dell and HP models.

This study is no different than saying Mercedes cars cost twice as much than the average price of all other cars, which makes sense considering Mercedes makes nothing but high-end vehicles. HP and Dell are more like a GM or Ford, where they have several models from low to high-end. For example, Dell's inspiron line would be e

justinpe

@tumnus: about a month. Everyday I would hope to find some kind of Mac vs. PC war. I tell you what, this has been a dry spell.

jkr2

@emptee_head: Exactly. Our office actually converted to using Adobe CS3 all on PCs on XP because they're cheaper, faster and more stable. Plus, we no longer have networking and file-compatibility problems.

All the serious video editors I know have quit Mac as well and gone to Avid systems on PCs.

GeekyNerdGuy

@itchytooth: They actually did quite a bit of promotion when it was released, but the market suddenly flew towards the eeePC ultra-portables, so they kind of dropped it and started focusing on that.

GeekyNerdGuy

@jkr2:
Hahaha, great analogy! But I have to wonder, how long have you been waiting to use that one:)

tumnus

AS usual all the fan boys are twisting the numbers to try and make this make sense. An average is just that, an average. Apple has a smaller market share and a smaller product line then all the PCs. Oh and for all those saying it cost more for the style, how are you enjoying your overpriced monster cables and other useless crap that cost more to fool morons. As a proud video editing, graphic artist, PC user, the days of Apple being the best at this ended a decade ago. Now it's all flashy turtlenecks.

emptee_head

"you get what you pay for"

Well THAT was profound... PCs typically offer more hardware and software choices over the Mac. So what exactly are you paying for? A nicer OS and shiny, pretty case? Please, elaborate on your worthless comment.

stradric

@generalassembly:
For me, the Macs have been the problem machines. The iBook I purchased in 2001, failed in 2004, and the iMac G5 has been the most problem piece of technology I ever owned. The original MacBook Pro (Core Duo, not Core 2 Duo) is too hot for laptop use, has overheated at times, and slowed down to the speed of my PDA when overheated. I was not editing video during the slowdowns, I was doing regular tasks web surfing, etc. I also had to reinstall the OS to get the MacBook Pro to boot for the first time.

My favorite laptop is a 5 year old Sony Vaio that just keeps working. I have owned as many PC's as Mac's, never had a PC hardware failure, and never had to reinstall Windows.

I am sure the other posters that related stories about various PC brands are telling the truth based on their experience. My bad experiences have all been with Apple hardware, so Apple is not immune to releasing some shoddy hardware.

jimtravis

@nakdaddy1: LENOVO makes a great MACHINE. BUY STOCK NOW.

SinAmos

And, no, this study isn't biased at all, or funded by any PC manufacturer.

Zoidbert

@cloudnine: It's because my mother was half mac, which makes me 1/4 mac. I take after the haughty, more refined, and proper side on the surface, but I have the guts of a pc inside.:)

SinAmos

@dandaman247: No, but they could probably do it for $3,000 - the price HP introduced it at. Apparently it wasn't very popular though, so now places like Newegg are selling it for half price. I'm not knocking the computer, it looks like a great deal and an interesting concept. The thing is, who has ever heard of the "HP Pavillion HDX"? That is HP's fault.

itchytooth

@shorty63136: The study wasn't "warranted". The study was purchased. Probably by some PC manufacturer association. If it was commissioned by Apple, it probably would have been made public if Apple didn't want it to.

In general, NPD doesn't do super-specific studies or custom surveys without them being commissioned. The data they sell as products are more general.

iotashan

You guys also forget about the quality of the components. Emachines, gateway, dell, toshiba, etc. all use shitty components, even though the specs match up. All of their components are much more likely to fail than apple's. Even aside from apple's sleek look, the only brands of notebooks you can compare are Asus & Lenovo (t-series_, both of which are smiliarly priced to Apple notebooks.

@dandaman247:
yeh sure the specs look great, but Pavilions suck donkey dick.

nakdaddy1

WOW - over 100 comments in 40mins - good work Adam, way to goose the click throughs with another apple vs pc item.

Maksimir

@GeekyNerdGuy: More truth. Speak on, brother.

SinAmos

To be fair, if you compare the iMac to the xps one, which is dell's all n one, apple is actually less expensive.

njgtechguy

@SinAmos: You're so pretty.

cloudnine

@LividChihuahua: Yeah, but see, I want to upgrade the embedded graphic processor ram and add some capacitors for shits and giggles.

SinAmos

I built an Intel Celeron 400Mhz PC in 1999 with Win98 on it. The only trouble it had was a modem that got fried. It still ran perfectly until I gutted it and used the case to build a Intel quad core machine a couple months ago.

I have a Dell Inspiron 833MHz from 2001-ish running XP that still works perfectly.

I have a Dell Inspiron 2.0GHz from 2005 that still runs perfectly.

I had a 2.0 GHz Inspiron Notebook that I used for four years before I resold it for $300.

I have an HP Media Center with Vista Premium, and the only real fault I've found in Vista is lack of signed drivers for old peripherals and the fact that I think they tried too hard to make it look like OSX. Mine's been completely stable.

In college, we used G3s in journalism lab. They totally fucked my Word formatting if I wrote anything on my PC, which required massive amounts of editing time to fix them since the prof graded on a G3.

At work we used G4s for Quark, Photoshop, etc. Any given production day, they were guaranteed to crash and require an hour-long run of Norton Disk Doctor to get them working again.

I love my iPhone, but Macintosh computers are just crap in a shiny, overpriced box.

GeekyNerdGuy

Resale value is very important. I've seen broken iBooks selling for prices above working Windows computers from the same time period. It's crazy how Apple computers hold their value.

I bought a refurbished 700Mhz eMac computer in December 2002 for $600.00 and sold it last week for $200.00. That works out to less than $6.00/month for a workhorse of a computer. Not too shabby.

Seriously, this "research" is flawed.

Tank

If they are just taking average prices, and not taking features into consideration, then this has FAIL written all over it.

soulfinger

@GeekyNerdGuy: Part of buying a Mac is showing the world that you can buy a Mac, or that you are a "Mac person." For better or worse, the image they try to cultivate with all their products is one that influences the bottom line.

When you're in a coffee house and you see someone on a laptop, you think "oh, laptop" or think nothing at all. When you see someone using a Mac, odds are good you have some kind of opinion, positive or negative. It's a recursive "having a Macbook tells the world that I am the kind of person who has a Macbook", and Apple has worked hard to achieve that. Same with the iPod, iPhone, etc. This is not a commentary on the relative merits of each product, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.

PipeRifle

Its called paying for quality. Sure, you can buy a piece of crap for 1/2 the price, but do you want that? You pay for what you get-Macs are significantly superior to PCs, so they cost more. This is like saying "The average price for an ounce of gold is $900, and the average price for a lump of aluminum is $7."

And specs aren't all that matter. Apple computers are more aesthetically pleasing, and are also more reliable-more resistant to viruses too. Plus, Vista sucks, and Leopard is so incredibly more advanced than Vista, it would be worth the price difference itself. You can dispute the fact that Vista is a piece of junk, but that is a different argument.

Macs are clearly superior in a whole host of ways, and therefore, their increased price is justified.

rbedi

When I set out to purchase my last computer (Laptop capable of replacing stolen laptop & stolen desktop) I priced high end laptops. I priced out IBM, Apple, HP/Compaq, and Dell. You know what I found? My 15" MacBook Pro cost basically equal what it cost from the other PC vendors. In many cases it had better specs than the competing hardware.

Now, for performance versus dollar in low-end gear? Sure, you can't really beat a cheap dell/etc.

Considering the lowest priced mac is the Mac Mini which is fairly powerful for its size, and Dell/et all don't produce such a small form factor machine. It's an interesting trade-off. Small media capable machine that looks nice, is silent, and takes up very little room on the AV rack? Gosh, let me think about that one.

But, low end laptops? Forget it, they don't compare. You get more bang for your buck in an entry-level laptop.

This is hardly news, let alone warranted some sort of study.

Xavoc

"So while Apple's marketshare has gone up quite a bit in the last few years, analysts don't think they'll be able to keep up the growth with prices so much higher than their PC counterparts."

That's because anal-ists are stupid.

I'm sure it has been stated in the comments above that I didn't take the time to read, but there is a significant difference in the bundled software that comes included on a Mac vs. that on a PC. When you add in the ease of use, machine lifetime, and design aesthetic, the Mac is a smokin' deal.

And by smokin', I mean the sticky green.

Mixotic

uh... DUH?....

dapoktan

Apple is a niche market company and because of that they can price their products to what they want; and people will pay it.
Thats all it is.

kaiesis

A really good MAC VS PC analogy

[bp1.blogger.com]

Chester_Copperpot

@jkr2: The problem is at the end of the day, you want to get past the window dressing. You want full access. You want to push the envelope of her capabilities, and maybe even get some back door access.

Lets see, what was my last command at the command prompt...

rsync -rvu --ignore-existing --delete iTunes*Music/ ppiddy@home.myurl.com:/Data4/iTunes*Music

Try that on your windows box. My mac does everything my linux box does in almost the same way. She may be polished on the outside, but she's a filthy, filthy girl for the right user.

ppiddy

@j05hu4: Between college labs, a newspaper and an ad agency, I have NEVER encountered a Mac that worked flawlessly. And we were using Macs for graphics editing/layout, editing, and animation. This is a span of 8 years of working with several different models and operating systems under real-world conditions.

It's a complete myth that Macs are a more stable system.

GeekyNerdGuy

@dandaman247: admittedly the design is nice, but WTF is with the 4 stickers on it to tell you what OS, what processor, and the other stuff? Looks like a damn NASCAR! That's what people don't get about the attraction to Apple, the design, the execution of their computers is sublime. Are you kidding me that not every laptop has a slot-loading drive? Have you tried the magnetic-latching screen and power cord? To me it's the little things that add up to a satisfying experience. Plus the OS, and the stability.

BTW, I bought my Macbook for $500, brand new, because I could still sell my then 3 yr old iBook for $500. I intend to do the same thing in another year or two with this one.

mdoublej

@PipeRifle: I agree with the macbook mindset but not the ipod...

people now look at ipods the same way they your generic laptop example...

"oh, an ipod..."

the market is saturated with them...they don't have any prestige or anything left imo.

dandaman247

When I was going to buy my Macbook, I decided to go to the Dell site and configure an identical, Windows-running laptop, just out of curiosity.

When I matched up ALL of the specs, including Graphics cards, built in camera, etc, the Dell came out to about 75 bucks less, and 3 1/2 pounds more than my Macbook. And while this was just one notebook (Dell Vostro 1510, for your reference), and while I admit that I paid a premium for a Mac, it's really up to me which one I buy, isn't it?

Mac lovers shouldn't have to rationalize their preference spec by spec- sure my macbook has a much better processor than the Dell it replaced, and that was part of the reason I bought this, but this is a beautiful machine. I like that I can easily carry it around my house, and that it's huge trackpad eliminates my previous need for a laplander+mouse combo. It looks good sitting on my nightstand charging, and that's all that has to make sense to me.

I hate that there has to be a heated debate. I could care less if somebody chooses a Windows over a Mac, just as long as they don't rub their computer's superior features in my face, as I don't to them.

I can afford to pay a premium for a User Interface that pleases me over it's competitors, so what of it?

michaelwiggins

i love these fights!

imaginaryplaya'

one word - Hackintosh

totoro

Funny, cuz all of the systems that I found remotely interesting on the Windows PC side never went below $1000. It's even harder finding a "PC" laptop that uses a DVI connection instead of VGA, and back in 2005, when I still had my Dell Inspiron 8200, that was both compact and powerful and had a better resolution display. Prices and averages are nice, but none of this stuff mattered when it came down to actually trying to find something that fit you. I tried going the cheaper route, but there were just too many systems below the 1k mark that just didn't do it for me, so I kept my price cap a bit higher and finally settled on the Macbook. Nuts to averages, I say.

Kaiser-Machead's BSDM Shenanigans

@GeekyNerdGuy: I have built 3 pc's in my complete career (spanning 15 years). It's because I love to design my own computers and also know how to maintain them that they can last a long time by offering a healthy grow path while keeping the costs down.

But I would buy an Apple anytime, just to get rid of the hassle of selecting the optimal and stable combination of parts. My experience with Macs is that they run flawlessly every time at 100% without glitches which has definitely to do with the strict hardware selection combined with MacOS. My Windows XP has to be installed every year just to get rid of old background processes to keep the 'interupts' tight (my work requires real time glitch free high end performance). But when your job is less demanding like photoshopping or typing, and you are, or have access to, a PC techie you can get away with a PC for way less money.

j05hu4

The average BMW costs more than the average Honda, as well.

Steel_Pelican

@venomous_duck41:

Proved wrong? How?

I stand by my claim. The AVERAGE Mac is twice the computer than the AVERAGE PC is. When a company focuses on high-end computers while the rest of the industry focuses on low-end wallet-friendly machines, that's what happens. Apple's prices AND specs, on average, are higher, period. Their overall market share is fairly low, but if you look at the high-end market share, things change drastically.

I don't see how this story contradicts my claim. In fact, it reinforces it. Another factor this study failed to recognize was the fact that most major comp. manufacturers subsidize the cost of their computers by allowing 3rd parties to install crapware on their machines. I forget the study I read, but the average PC's cost is $50-200 cheaper on average so some company can install their software on your machine.

Also, if this same study were applied to Dell or HP, their average price would be higher as well (not higher than Apple's though) when compared to the rest of the industry. Their average price would be higher because they offer higher-end models in addition to the budget friendly models, while companies like compaq and Acer focus solely on low-end computers.

You get what you pay for. High-end PCs from a major computer manufacturer are going to price out about the same as an Apple computer.

justinpe

@GeekyNerdGuy: Because they are.

evophoto

Read: [www.tomshardware.com]

tameanaka

@wsnideman: Superior software, parts and service? Keep telling yourself that lie and maybe you won't notice the penis in your asshole.

The stylish casings of Macintosh computers are just the lube.

GeekyNerdGuy

@wsnideman: I don't like the news, therefore it's not valid news! - Dude, this is a tech and gadget blog, reporting on tech and gadget news, whether you like it or not.

Munch the BanNail

@wsnideman: I agree. There is really no need for all these personal attacks on you.

itchytooth

All that's required to know something's up is to look at the cost of upgrading ram from Apple- $200 for ram that costs (and not just comparable ram but the exact same model number and everything) less than $60.

mhlaxp

Gah, why Gizmodo?! Whhhyyyyy do you bait all of the fanboys?... Oh, yeah, because all of these Apple related page views generate a lot of ad revenue... my bad.

Duckspwn