@evan_phi: Most internal routing bikes are designed by people that hate mechanics. The Specialized Transition is my current fave, due to the clean run of the cables from the aerobars into the frame.

My point is that of the bikes that would benefit from multiple shifting stations, Time Trial/Tri would be the first. The idiot who whats to shift his mountain bike from the bar ends would be the second.

I'll stick with my Rholoff thanks!

Lizard_King

I'll be interested to see if these become mainstream. I worked for a Cannondale authorized dealer and repair shop for about 6 years so the first thing that crossed my mind was "holy crap, I'd hate to be the one to try to work on those things". The price is obviously prohibitive at this point, that kind of money would get you a pretty slick SystemSix or Six13.

nathangimpel

@Lizard_King:

for time trial designs:

internal routing.

evan_phi

i'll stick to a singlespeed, thanks.

and besides. having electronic components is just one more thing to break, and go REALLY wrong. There's a reason that cable systems have lasted for such a long time. they WORK!!!

evan_phi

They have CVT's on scooters now, it's stepless and has automatic clutch. It's a mechanical system but it works pretty well.

mechanisma22

Electronic shifting in the past has been pretty poor - Mavic's Zap/Mektronic suffered from not only a poor derailleur design (piston, instead of parallelogram, which was susceptible to locking under side loads) as well as an awful wireless system and a standard friction front derailleur.

The upsides were having shift buttons ANYWHERE you wanted them, not having friction issues with cabling (bonus for wierd Time Trial designs).

As someone who has (and still does) work on the pro's bikes, I can say I am not looking forward to working on this garbage. Hey Shimano, why don't you work on a Ft mech that doesn't snap at the hinges like D/A or bend out of shape in 1500 miles like the Ultegra/SL models?!?!

Lizard_King

@lankysob: Well, it wouldn't fly for the tour de francers. Any generation requires resistance. If you used the power from braking, they probably wouldn't lose any speed, but any loss in pedaling power they probably wouldn't touch.

Pope John Peeps II

Unless you're talking about using the bike power and battery in tandem; use the bike to constantly be keeping the battery charge at full. But, I'm sure there's something inefficient about that setup that's eluding me, as well.

lankysob

Before someone tries to make the "why not use the bike itself as the power source" argument (like someone did over at Wired), let me throw in my 2 cents and see if it holds water:

Using the bike itself to create the power necessary to move the derailleurs wouldn't be constant enough for the precision necessary to perform pre-calibrated derailleur movements at the same speed, with the same force each and every time. If you're traveling 5mph, your shifting would be a heckuva lot more sluggish than if you were shifting while traveling 30mph due to less power generation by the slower pace.

That's what I thought after having the initial "just use the bike as the power generator" thought, anyways.

lankysob

The electronic shifting is finally getting released? I was starting to believe it was entering Duke Nukem vapor territory.

I'll be interested to see if it trickles down to 105 territory. I have no budget for Dura Ace.

dbc

I don't know anything about bikes, but if I owned and/or rode one, it would have this.

Daytodaz3

That is aweeeeeessomee.
Since I am not of age to drive, my bike is big for me, and I bike a lot even NOT for transportation.
Too bad I won't be able to afford these babies until the point when I CAN drive by myself.
haha

itb

I think I'll stick to the old mechanical paddle shifters on my Specialized. I dunno about anyone else, but for a bike, the only electronics I'd ever care to rely on are lights for evening/night riding.

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!

@lankysob: I can't imagine flying down singletrack, having to take my hands off the handlebars to move up the bar ends to shift.

lankysob

@Lizard_King: Not relevant to the story, but bar ends scare me. I ditched them years ago after learning the hard way (hooking trees at speed) riding in the woods in Pennsylvania. Now I live in the city and can only imagine the things I might catch if I still used them. Shortened handlebars FTW.

lankysob

I've had all kinds of shifters on the various bikes I've owned, and I just don't see what's so onerous about manual shifting. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I like the tactile response of tweaking the shift just so, in order to get the optimum chain alignment. How do you do that with electric?

FredicvsMaximvs

This is pro kit. It's not worth the weight of a power generating device when you can just pop new batteries at the top of each stage. I imagine it's more similar to paddle shifters in F1 cars in that some fancy "pro-level" bikes that the rich boys buy but never ride will get them, and some if not many pro teams will kit them. I doubt if Joe Weekend Warrior, or even anyone but the cat 1 racers will use them.

Paddle shifters in the consumer auto industry is for the most part a gimmick, I doubt this will be any different.

A3rd.Zero

that would just scream "steal me" in philadelphia

taciturnforsale

@Migo: what's wrong with both?

i have a '93 rx-7 with a built motor pushing over 1bar of boost, and i also have a custom made fixed gear vintage schwinn.

i love my car. i love my bike.

theorieofself

PFFFF! who uses gears? single speed / fixed gear is where it's at!

theorieofself

@itb: Driving's overrated. I did the whole car scene thing - fixed up my ride, built an engine and installed it myself, pimped it out, raced it on the track, raced it at autocross, raced it out on rally stages (it's a Subaru), and I'm much happier now that I use a decent bike. I get my workout without having to see the inside of the gym, and I get to bike by all the sorry sobs stuck in rush hour traffic.

Migo

I tried the paddle shifters on an Acura RL while driving south out of San Diego and I must admit that the crisp shifts allowed outstanding driver control, especially on the twisty down hill parts but it took some getting used to.

I think this technology will trickle down like the carbon fiber frames and kevlar tires that seemed so extreme in earlier road bike competitions but are now relatively affordable.

I enjoy using my legs on a Cannondale as opposed to offering one of them up along with an arm to pay big oil.

thegadgeteer

I have a set of Shimano shifters on my bike. They're much much better than the kind you have to twist. I don't know why anyone would put any other kind on their bike.

Elliuotatar

This shifter will be great for down hilling.

jpitsch

my bike has paddle shifters... granted their not electric...

either way, much better than those pull levers and twist shifters...

JuiceDaddy

@bizzz: Would you settle for an engine? :P

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!

oh boy, ANOTHER freakin' device for my bike that I have to change out the batteries.

So far I have to change out the batteries for:

front headlight
tail light
gps

and now the shifters? The list just keeps growing. Heck, why not make battery powered brakes and water bottes? Battery powered clipless pedals? If we are going to start loading down the bike with battery operated doo-dads, I want a standardized electrial system for the bike, and a centralized, powerful, lightweight battery that powers all of this crap, because I'll be damned if I'm going to change out the batteries every night on my electrified seatpost adjuster.

bizzz

They shift faster, more precisely and weigh less. What's not to like? Obviously, for you folks with a beat to piss single speed, it's not going to do a thing for you, but for top end road racers, these are the things they want.

Dagamon

The conventional Shimano Dura-Ace is pretty surgical... it has sort of a trigger action already. The only real advantage would be no more cable-greasing.

kaneshadow

If performance was my only concern I would consider these components. For years Shimano has consistently been the driving force behind new bike technologies and I trust just about any medium to high-end product they release. That being said, one of the reasons I love bikes is their fully mechanical drivetrain. There's something comforting about the fact that I can theoretically fix any part on my bike while I'm out on a ride (assuming I brought the right tools). I'll stick with my mechanical shifters for now, even though the whole thing is moot since there's no way I could afford these new fancy electric shifters.

hooked-on-tronics

cable shift/braking systems aren't "rickety"; properly maintained they can outlast many of the other systems on a bike. Most people, if they know what they're dealing with, will avoid this tech-- cables work just as well.
With the electronic system, the bike has to be charged, or it won't shift. let me say that again-- it *won't* *shift*. One of the best advantages of the bicycle is that it isn't dependent on external energy sources. Even if your battery-powered headlight or computer dies, the bike still goes.
There is only one advantage of the electronic system, and it isn't of much interest to normal users. On a time trial bike, which tends to have a strange handlebar configuration and internally routed cables, the electronic system's performance is not diminished by kinked-up, fully-housed cables. That's an important advantage, but only if you're riding time trials.

alpacalypse

Cables don't work just as well. They work very well, but it's not instantaneous. Changing from the small ring to the big ring is still harder than dropping down a cog. This is right away.

Now I wouldn't get it cause I don't like needing a battery, and because I can't afford 105 let along $1200 Dura Ace. Throw in about five hundred more for the new tech, and it's sufficiently well out of my reach.

rrrrrrright

I'll be the first to ride alongside you and turn on my frequency gen/jammer. I win the race!

I've hydraulic brakes and let me explain something to you about the power of hydraulics: panic and you crush your rims.

I've much respect for Shimano products so let's see how these fair. Nice to locate them anywhere.

SigmundTheSeaMonster

@Noobs-R-Us: And your bike will weigh a hundred pounds...

photophile

@SigmundTheSeaMonster: Pick better rims. Haven't crushed anything even with Gustav's ;-)

@rrrrrrright: The speed of shifts in any component system is based on the quality of shifting components (cassette, chain, chainrings, derailleurs and shifters). The derailleurs *gasp* DO NOT shift the chain - since Hyperglide and other ramped based shifting systems, the derailleurs encourage the shift, pushing the chain into the ramps, the ramps in turn shift the chain. The only speed increase that can be seen with an electric system is in the button pushes vs. lever presses, and a skilled cyclist never needs more than 3 shifts at a time. Dura Ace is damn near instantaneous. Gore Tex Ride-On withstands over a year of CX abuse, not the slightest bit of an issue.

The best part about this is the training Shimano will neglect to give mechanics about diagnosing issues. Then when a customer calls complaining, Shimano blames the shop.

Lizard_King

These are awesome.

I don't get why people are whining about having a battery. 99% of the people that buy this will be racing, and the advantage will far far outweigh any disadvantage there is with changing a battery. It will be just another part of getting ready for a race.

Sure, if you're commuting, it would suck for it to run out of power in the middle of traffic or before a huge hill. But if you spend this much for shifters on a commuter bike, you're a douche bag.

photophile

@lankysob: They should design it like the hybred cars. Use the breaking to generate electricity to re-energize the battery. That way, you're not actually losing any of your leg power.

Noobs-R-Us

@kaneshadow: Instead, you have batteries, aftermarket "low resistance shift wire" made by Monster, wireless systems... you get the picture

This seems cool but not for me, despite being a notorious bike junkie- single speed for the road, and 8spd for offroad - no electrical system would stand up to being covered in mou and submereged in 2 feet of water repeatedly.

lpranal

@thegadgeteer: also, forgot to mention-- The electronic shifters aren't new in the "paddle shifter" department. That design, called STI, has been around for nearly 20 years and has been copied and improved upon by Campagnolo and SRAM. This one just has switches instead of pulleys inside.

alpacalypse

@photophile: I don't disagree that this is aimed at high-end racers. But alot of racers are regular people just like you and me with day jobs, and don't have dedicated mechanic teams to keep things in tip-top shape. There needs to be a piezoelectric / solar option to keep this thing charged. Can you imagine showing up to a triathlon and not being able to shift? Yuck.

@SigmundTheSeaMonster: Enough with the subtle hint dropping, we know you want a set of disc brakes for your birthday!

lpranal

@Lizard_King: as a mavic mektronic user since it came out, i always have to disagree with the comments from people about how shitty my system is. no, i don't get bad wireless reception and have never experienced interference, my batteries have never run out on me while racing or riding (and if it did, i keep a couple CR2032's in my handlebar, behind the bar end plug, just in case), and i have to say it is the cleanest and fastest shifting i have ever experienced on a bike. click a button = done. it pains me to ride my other dura-ace equipped bike, as i'm always seeking out the buttons to quickly press with my fingers.

yes, i will agree, the manual front derailleur kinda sucks...which is why i'm looking forward to see how shimano's electric one will work out. but then, like you, i also know how poor shimano's regular front derailleurs can be.

tr

@Dagamon: How much more precisely, and how much lighter are these things really? I think that the weight of the larger components, like the frame and the wheels matter a lot more than the weight of the shifting components. I guess I can't really knock these things if they work really well, but I can't imagine anyone who's big on cycling to want something that now requires a charge just to be able to shift speeds.

My philosophy on bikes is simplicity, at least as much as each function allows. Cable-operated shifting mechanisms work and work extremely well with quality components, but are also independent of power sources. Not to chug the hatorade or anything, but cables FTW.

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!

Just to clear up a couple of things from the article and the comments. Frankie "Mindblowing" Andreiu, although indeed a Tour de France vet, is now a paid television commentator who has been doing product "reviews" (ads) for Shimano, Specialized and other brands during televised racing coverage.
Professional cyclists who compete in UCI sanctioned races have a minimum weight for the whole bike of 6.8 Kg. to meet. Therefore, I wouldn't say that the pros wouldn't touch the new EDA unless it were lighter. These fellas can easily go below the minimum weight and so can afford to not use only the lightest components, but rather have those which perform the best.
The visceral delight of trimming the mechanical derailleur for less rub is not necessary because the electronic shifting system knows what position the front and rear derailleurs are in and trims the front derailleur accordingly.
Finally, the worry about running out of batteries at the critical moment in a race or just when you're out on a ride seems remarkably similar, though less preventable, to the risk of sudden loss of tire pressure. Getting a flat is more likely and less controllable than being stupid enough to let your batteries run out. In either case, flat or out of juice, you pull over and replace it. Oh, or call your wife and have her pick you up on the roadside, throw it in the back of the Escalade and drive you to the bike shop.

twistyaction

@newgalactic: ...I have to say, that would be pure comedy.

newgalactic

I hope they are encrypted. I can see some joker cloning the shift code and playing havoc with rich weekend rider types who own this. If it ever went to the professional race circuit, you can bet that other teams would attempt to clone other teams signals and cause a massive de-railer accident at the worst possible time.

...Floyd Landis?

newgalactic

"And all in all the set is actually lighter than Shimano's current top-of-the-line components"

Yes, but it's actually 68 grams HEAVIER than the new DuraAce according to Shimano's own press release.

I do like the elimination of cable friction. For most people this doesn't matter but at the pro level it does since the bikes get washed daily and all that water quickly starts to take a toll on things.

Really the only true advantage I can see is for TT bikes where it would eliminate some truly irksome cable runs and allow for multiple shifters.

cyclocrossmechanic

"But alot of racers are regular people just like you and me with day jobs, and don't have dedicated mechanic teams to keep things in tip-top shape."

Ummm...that's what Ultegra is for! DuraAce is designed for the pros. Always amazed me how many people come into a shop and buy a DuraAce or Record equipped bike and then bitch because the parts wore out so quickly! It's racing equipment and just like a Ferrari F-1 car, durability is near the bottom of the priority list. Amazes me how many century riders and Cat 3 racers seem to think they NEED (not want) the same gear (or even better gear) than a Div 1 pro.

Also here's a dirty little secret for you: most pros do NOT run full D/A year round. Look closely at the bikes in the early season and minor races and you'll notice a lot of Ultegra chains and cassettes being used by the pros. Reason for this is contrary to popular belief, most pro teams do not receive an unlimited supply of free parts and chains and cassettes where out pretty quickly. Most teams receive a budget as part of their sponsorship package. Heck, the CSC team actually has no sponsorship from Shimano - they buy all of their DuraAce gear.

cyclocrossmechanic

Throw this on a Vitus framed Pug and I'm sold.

Human Bomb

"Using the bike itself to create the power necessary to move the derailleurs wouldn't be constant enough for the precision necessary to perform pre-calibrated derailleur movements at the same speed, with the same force each and every time. If you're traveling 5mph, your shifting would be a heckuva lot more sluggish than if you were shifting while traveling 30mph due to less power generation by the slower pace."

You have no idea what you're talking about! On-board generators for lighting systems are very common. Shimano makes a couple of models (including an Ultegra level) and Schmidt of Germany make an especially nice model. They work great and unlike crappy battery powered systems you don't have to worry about running out of juice. That's important when you're a true long distance ride (not just a whimpy century) like Paris-Brest-Paris. Most will fully power a light even at walking speeds.

Problem with using a dynohub on a DuraAce level bike is that even the best Schmidt hubs still have some slight resistance in them and that would never fly among the pros.

Should also be pointed out that this is NOT Shimano's first electronic shifting system. Shimano's Nexave and Coasting groups have had electronic shifting for a while now. Problem is they're aimed at practical bikes rather than poser/Lance wannabe bikes so nobody bothered to notice.

cyclocrossmechanic

@SigmundTheSeaMonster: I like modern Shimano stuff, but because they started throwing cheap derailleurs on French bikes to cut the cost in the 80's, it makes it really annoying to have to hunt for a good frame-fitting Campy replacement.

Human Bomb

@lankysob: Not if you live in SF/have any hills. The short ones are a pain in the ass, and don't give me some "ride more" response, I've put in my miles and drops or horns are definitely narrow enough

HuckNPluck

@cyclocrossmechanic: I stand corrected, I thought this was separate from the Dura Ace gruppo . It's weird for me to see them debuting this kind of thing in their flagship product line... in the MTB world, they always debut the new, unproven tech in the XT line, i.e. Shadow RDs, rapid rise, etc... and move it up to XTR once it earns its keep, so to speak.

lpranal

The electronic D/A will be an optional upgrade to the new D/A parts and not a distinct group.

Shimano has launched many things with XTR and then trickled it down to XT, LX, etc. This was especially true with the 950/952 range of XTR which were the first groups to feature hollow cranks and Octalink. 952 was also the first 9 speed MTB group. More recently they've changed this, partly due to the fact that MTB racing isn't influenced by pro racing to nearly the degree that road bikes are. With MTBs most people are perfectly happy with non-racing gear and many expert riders avoid racing stuff for serious trail riding. In the road world it's all about being a Lance wannabe.

Introducing new technology at the top is probably the most brilliant move Shimano ever made! SunTour had an indexed shifting system way before Shimano. Problem was the debuted it on a lower level group which gave the impression that it was only for inexperienced cyclists. It wound up being a bomb. Shimano on the other hand debuted their SIS shifting system at the DuraAce level before trickling it down to 600 (now Ultegra) and so on.

cyclocrossmechanic

I'll stick with my Ultegra

BiZarRroBALlmeR

@photophile: Ha ha, you're funny! Surely you've seen those little devices that generate electricity when you attach it to the rim of your bike, yes? Do they weigh a ton?

Well, they can make those things even smaller and lighter and hitch it to your breaks so that whenever you break, it starts generating power. Get it???? Now, run along now go get some nap time...

Noobs-R-Us

@FredicvsMaximvs: The servos would never be able to change the initial positions so adjustment would not be necessary. The only things that would affect it would be BB spindle length, bent derailleur hangers or different ranges on the cassette.

cervelo04

The major problem with this is that with all batteries the run time gets shorter as they age. It may be great for the first week but if you forget to cycle the battery then a month down the road a 2 hour ride would be impossible. I hope the servos do not return to a specific gear when they die. I could see the battery dying and the bike mysteriously shifting to the hardest gear by default.

cervelo04

Anyone ever seen that part in "breaking away" when a competitor reaches over hits Dave's shifter? same thing.

Shimano has been making over priced components with ridiculous gimmicks like this for years. They also offers internal shifting, and a 3 speed automatic shifting get up. Personally I would take a sram rival group,or ANYTHING that campagnolo makes over this electric crap. Shimano parts aren't rebuildable, and never last more than a year or two, and a product like this only takes their dura-ace line one step closer to a expensive "locked out" system of products that don't deliver any real performance benefits but cost way more. Someone will spend 2,000 clams on this electric shifting system and in 2 years I bet it will need to be replaced. The smart person could spend half that on a campy group and have it still work like a charm 4-5 years later. It just won't be electric (frown).

manboobs