@lpranal:
"people are able to freely question government policies and activities like this is amazing."

The administration probably doesn't give a shit because they know that citizens are now so apathetic they're (not) revolting.

ANoel

I'd be a little surprised to see this also. But I'd volunteer to be the "victom". The method is simply a psycological trick. It is all in your head when they are doing it. It especially works well if you put the blindfold over the nose and mouth, which they don't do here. But as far as torture it's not really much at all. Spenking is worse then this. I know people who get off on having this done to them.

HJTravels

Pretty shocking. I think it serves a purpose - you hear the term waterboarding, it doesn't mean much. You see it being done (even with robots), it's profoundly disturbing. By the way, this technique is not used to torture terrorists - it's used to torture terrorist suspects. That means that innocent people, just like you or me, get this treatment. Sad and barbaric.

stryder100

@Curves: Because of the actual waterboarding, or of this parody? Aggree with this project or not, the fact that people are able to freely question government policies and activities like this is amazing.

lpranal

This is sad
:(

Waka in Japan

@bobdobbs:
"It's about time we taught robots to do our dirty work."

... you mean they're cheaper than Mexicans?

ANoel

@Aoi: I think you can substitute "Americans" with "humans".

BoinK

wow, this is great for the kids...

kamsolusar

am i the only one here that thinks this is wrong on so many levels?

next you are gonna have kids do it on kids and re-enact water boarding. one drowns and then what?

Torture is an art form that should only be carried out by trained professionals, that's why God invented the CIA and other covert ops detachments.

seriously people...

B1663R

@Jraktal: I don't know. They haven't named any actors yet, but it's been announced that they're making it.

[www.imdb.com]

GeekyNerdGuy

@GeekyNerdGuy: I second that, who would play Yul Brenner's robot Character!

Jraktal

NICE! Waterboarded terrorists--check. Saved freedom--check. Won the hearts and minds of people around the world--ch--wait, what went wrong? People, we're defending freedom here, don't you see it? We tortu--I mean waterboard the bad guys and they tell us where the bombs are planted. Riiiiiiight.. That's it. Shame on us all.

gloveofpower

@Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity: Cool. I need to find some robots to torture. And some homeless people to hunt. Like that movie with Ice-T and Rutger Hauer.

Hectorvex

@Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity: That movie's set for a remake.

GeekyNerdGuy

Gitmo better ... lmao

GeekyNerdGuy

@Hectorvex: They got them as surplus from this old park that went out of business. Westworld or something....

Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity

it would be a better statement if only one of them was a robot.

it would be really deep and meaningful, in some way i cant actually think of.

Spkl

The Spongebob artwork is great. I feel bad for the robots. Are they like ex-Disney ride robots that just couldn't keep it together?

Hectorvex

It's about time we taught robots to do our dirty work.

bobdobbs

I think by initially volunteering to do it, and then allowing another person to do it, you sort of nullify any negative connotation that you were trying to attatch to waterboarding.

Quit crying, and let us mess up some terrorists.

Captain_Collide

This is a tragedy on so many levels. I weep for my country.

Curves

@feckineejit: Did you have to program them to scream?

Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity

This reminds me of the move Untraceable. The overall theme of that movie was that Americans are attracted to and like to watch the suffering of others as long as it does not harm them directly.

Aoi

But what if the robots were programmed to feel drowning?

feckineejit

@ANoel: Well, the Chinese are certainly cheaper than mexicans. Maybe they're Chinese built robots?

Xavoc

@lpranal:
Gandi is a shining light, thanks for that quote.
He also said "A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble. "

Glad you used the "O G" words.

...so, who do you think shapes "public opinion" (aside from Gizmodo) ?

ANoel

@lpranal: er, our public officials values more OFTEN than not only align superficially, that is...

lpranal

Next up: Robot BDSM!

oh wait...

Chromeo

@ANoel: The same could be said with many oppressive governments around the world, but change happens anyway. These days, people don't have to revolt to make a difference. Revolt isn't the only conduit for change, and in fact often times isn't the best way. Public opinion matters, and if our elected officials align to our values (which, sadly, more of than not happens only on a superficial level) that conduit for change becomes the people themselves.

As Mahatma Ghandi famously said, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"

lpranal

@MagnoliaBoy: ...Anyway, I'm sure this makes me evil and all, but I'd pay a dollar to Waterboard a terrorist, hell ya.

MagnoliaBoy

See, torture is FUN!

rg

Anyone ever see Hostel?

MagnoliaBoy

It's not just Americans who like to see suffering. It's part of human nature to want to watch others, other then yourself or ones you're emotionally attached to, suffer.

Remember how hangings used to be a big thing to go watch? Hockey games? Did you know people used to bring picnics and watch battles in Wars in the middle ages and 1800s? Ever been to the movies?

Lupison

@lpranal:
You likely have seen it, but may enjoy this art piece...

+ Watch video

ANoel

@Xavoc: I guess I'm just trying to say, that torture used to mean something, torture was about fucking you all up and leaving you for dead, this just isn't the same thing. No, i totally wouldn't want to have it done to me, but if it was a choice between torture and waterboarding, I'd pick the waterboarding. Would I pay a dollar to torture a terrorist, no, I'd probably pay someone else to do it. Gore is icky. (no not Al, he's a looker)

As far as our's and allied governments victimizing anyone, what about our own citizens, where's the outrage at home when our personal freedoms are stomped on every day, where's the clever amusement park exhibit featuring that? The police do worse things to people at home than this, people's mothers and fathers do worse things than this to them every day.

MagnoliaBoy

@Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity: I dunno, this would be better with robots from Cherry 2000...

Xavoc

@lpranal: Not necessarily my voice. Sorry, I've found that many of these are projects, while occasionally thought provoking, tend to be more shock than message.

This one isn't really shocking at all, it is an ongoing practice by our country that many people detest the thought of. The unpopular follow-up question is, "Would you be OK with it if it prevented you or someone you love from being harmed?" In which case, most people nod stupidly and move on.

It's a valid question, and while it plays upon base fears that we live with, the odds of it happening are very limited. Which is why it is called terrorism. Fear it may happen to you, versus it actually happening to you.

Which is exactly why I hopped on a plane a week after 9/11 and went on vacation. Best vacation I've EVER had. All the sheep stayed home, scared in their pens. I had the run of Disney World to damn near myself for a week before people crawled out of their holes and peeled the plastic and duct tape off of their homes.

Xavoc

@GeekyNerdGuy: @GeekyNerdGuy: They did. It was called FutureWorld. [www.imdb.com]

The only thing I remember about it was the girls nickname in the movie was "Socks".

Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity

oh boo hoo... a terrorist got a little water splashed in his face. cry me a river, you hippies... then waterboard yourself with the tears.

Rabid Penguin

@ANoel: His words, my voice... same reason why piddly little art projects like this matter- they all put into words what we desperately are all trying to say, but for some reason can't.

lpranal

@MagnoliaBoy: You know, if we were actually sure that the person being waterboarded were actually a terrorist, I think I could maybe slightly be OK with it.

However, the way that the government has gone about their arresting process, whom they've arrested, and why... Well. They've arrested Journalists, they've arrested Americans (who were detained after REPORTING possible insurgent activity in Iraq) and a whole slew of people who are most likely innocent of any charge beyond wrong place/wrong time.

Xavoc

@HJTravels: "The method is simply a psycological trick. It is all in your head when they are doing it... as far as torture it's not really much at all. Spenking is worse then this. I know people who get off on having this done to them."

I hear they're called trolls.

Killjoy

@Noobs-R-Us: No, they just shoot you and bill your family for the bullet.

Xavoc

@92BuickLeSabre: Watching a battle from half a mile away isn't quite the same as wandering through mounds of dead bodies rotting in the midday sun looking for the wounded to help. Or, even seeing the battle horrors up close as a photograph.

From half a mile, quite a bit looks rather impersonal and detached.

Xavoc

USA = China? Oh, right They use the bamboo under the fingernails.

Noobs-R-Us

@Lupison: Actually, by that definition, human nature would be more or less be considered sociopathic. In both of those examples, it's not the suffering that people are reveling in, but the idea of "look how we've vanquished our enemies / evil / terrorists / whathaveyou".

So in that sense, it's not that we like to see people suffer, but we do enjoy seeing our enemies defeated. Seeing them as enemies already places them in a "subhuman" category which is necessary to prevent our empathetic nature from intervening.

If you're interested in having many of your conceptions about who you are, what humanity is and why we do some of the more fucked up things, I highly suggest the blank slate - the modern denial of human nature. I'd rate it at least as high as Fight Club in terms of a mind-opening mindfuck.

lpranal

"Did you know people used to bring picnics and watch battles in Wars...?"

I remember the first time I learned about this with the Battle of Bull Run.
Washington residents taking a ride into the countryside with picnic baskets to watch the battle (and then having to run away when it turned out the CSA was winning.)

A nice piece of counter-argument for when people claim that society has only become
(a) more stupid (b) more violent (c) more elitist (d) more divided (e) etc.

92BuickLeSabre

@MagnoliaBoy: Trust me, I perform small acts of civil disobedience every day. Pretty much I'm waiting for Obama to get into office before starting up any letter writing campaign to re-instate our rights as citizens. I'm not going to waste my breath on a death, dumb, and blind president who's on his way to being shown the door in a hurry.

Torture still means something, it just means a lot more to the person undergoing it. I had really hoped that McCain would stand up more against what is going on considering he was tortured for years both mentally and physically.

If they really want to send a message with this exhibit, I would suggest that they make the exhibit a mother/daughter one. With the daughter waterboarding the mother for not letting her go to a dance or something. Or a boy waterboarding an abusive priest.

Xavoc

@Rabid Penguin: Question: so in your opinion, is water-boarding captured suspected terrorists going to deter other terrorists? Is the "little water getting splashed in your face" going to force them to talk, knowing full well that we can't actually harm them?

It's not so horrible in the sense that Jihadists whisper the horrors of what "the americans do to you if you're captured", if anything it's probably an inside joke. "hey, watch out with those exposed bomb wires man - don't want the americans to waterboard you! BWAHAHAHAA!". It is a pretty mean thing to do someone who's completely innocent though, and for what?

lpranal

okay...where's the freakin video already...come on!!!

ChowderFacial

@Curves: Nothing to flame you for. I destest violence greatly. I just believe that it is occasionally necessary to defend oneself, even pre-emptively. Turning the other cheek only works if the person you're standing up to views you as human.

But, I appreciate your viewpoint greatly.

Xavoc

@Xavoc: Yes, one is worse than the other, but doing one as a mission and doing the other for fun and sport...I guess I don't get the comparison.

@Curves: *applause*

92BuickLeSabre

@Curves: Everyone has a moral sense, some people are just more afraid of showing it than others. If not having your head up your ass and standing up for what you believe, defending human rights is flameworthy, I don't think I want much to do with gizmodo anymore.

lpranal

@MagnoliaBoy: "...what about our own citizens, where's the outrage at home when our personal freedoms are stomped on every day... The police do worse things to people at home than this..."

Some of us are pissed off about these things too, and usually when we vocalize it we're labeled antisocial or unamerican or some other sort of commie homo junky. The difference is that these days even large swaths of the status quo recognize the failings of this administration, and so we feel comfortable mentioning those.

Killjoy

I weep about this because my government DOES it, and because some people call it entertainment. You can say what you want about human nature, but THIS human does not (nor ever will) want to see anyone suffer. I do (and always will) stand up and say so when I see something "wrong" or other people suffer. That may not be common or popular, but I feel I have not only a higher authority to answer to, but myself to face in the mirror every day as well as a child I am also trying to raise with those same convictions and values.

Is this kind of idealism popular? No. Do I care? No. I am, and always will be, PROUDLY hopeful for a better tomorrow. Welcome to my world, the one that I hope by retaining my last shred of compassion for my fellow human beings will be better for us all. I fully expect to be FLAMED for this, but I dont care. Flame on folks.

Curves

I don't think waterboarding is used as a deterrence, but rather an interrogation technique. And I'm sure it does help get some to talk or they would choose other, more efficient techniques.

And how many innocent people are getting waterboarded? really?

And torture? c'mon. It's not like we're giving these people vivisections, sawing their heads off, or making them eat spam.

I'm sure being waterboarded is not pleasant, but our techniques seem like cupcakes and rainbows compared to what Al Qaeda and their ilk would do to you if you were captured... and not killed in a suicide bombing attack first.

Rabid Penguin

@Git Em SteveDave displays attention-grabbing vanity: "Did you have to program them to scream?"

I think it's more of a choking, gurgling noise.

@ANoel: "... you mean they're cheaper than Mexicans?"

Yes, when you amortize the initial cost over the life of the robot, and factor in the illegals' costs to the penal, legal and health care systems.

@stryder100: "That means that innocent people, just like you or me, get this treatment."

The only innocent people that I know of that get waterboarded are our own troops and agents that have it done to them as part of their training. It may not be fun, but there's no permanent damage, no pain, just fear for a relatively short time. Nothing like what they would like to do to us.

@Xavoc: "I had really hoped that McCain would stand up more against what is going on considering he was tortured for years"

He did. Wake up. He wants Gitmo closed, he's against water boarding, and he's in favor of habeus corpus rights for detainees.For the most part, he's a lib like most everybody here. For the most part, he's a lib like most everybody here.

@lpranal: "is water-boarding captured suspected terrorists going to deter other terrorists?"

Yes, when it leads to their capture and the failure of their plots.

@Curves: "Is this kind of idealism popular?"

Unfortuneately, yes. I'm very glad for the sakes of you and your daughter, that you live in a country with people who are willing to do what is necessary to keep you both safe, and free to have such naive beliefs. I'm sure you are against killing (as am I in most cases) but what if it were to save a family member's life? There are lots of things that are wrong MOST of the time, but very few things that are wrong ALL of the time.

GadgetPlay

@Aoi: Scratch "Americans" and replace with "humans."

sxr7171

@Rabid Penguin: Really? I hope for our sake you're right, but there's probably a 50/50 chance that they're just getting frustrated and this a last-ditch, "i'll-teach-you-to-worship-another-god" gimmick. I just think as the country with the most powerful military in the world we should be testing out our mind-reading technology, or even just good ole fashion sodium pentathol on these guys, instead of giving them swirlies.

I know it's not THAT bad (certainly nothing like what their methods are) but it doesn't change the fact that It's not effective enough on the terrorists to risk using on innocent people, 'sall im sayin.

lpranal

@GadgetPlay: that's not really answering my question, and ignoring the rest of what I said, but ok, you sure showed me...

lpranal

@Curves: No honor in losing. I'm perfectly OK with pre-emptive defense. If a 300 lb guy is going to start something, and my only chance of winning is a pre-emptive cheap (I prefer to refer to it as lubrication to enable a fight to go my way.) shot to the knee, I'm damn well going to take it.

I don't go looking for fights, I HATE fights, I don't like violence in general (other than simulated Zombie attacks), but I'm always paying attention to people around me, and whose neck I'll need to step on to get out of a room.

Xavoc

@GadgetPlay: I am not saying I am against violence (in most cases anyway) but I am against torture, especially under the assumption of innocence until guilt is proven, and thats what waterboarding is. You better believe if a loved one was in danger I would use violence (and a damn lot of it, as any mother in the animal kingdom instinctivly protects her family). But when I do it, you can guarantee the other person will not be restrained nor will I sneak up on them. Face to face, one on one, male or female. Its called honor. Whether they have it or not, I do and will keep it.

Curves

So, can someone please explain when waterboarding became torture? Was that before or after we decided to make our guys go through it during their training? Last I checked, getting shocked by electricity, cutting, slicing, things that actually did bodily harm, was considered torture. Next thing you know we'll be saying that heat lamps and making someone eat pizza with anchovies is torture! Stop wearing panties and realize that not everything unpleasant is or should be considered "torture".

Sir_NightSky

@Rabid Penguin: Water boarding is a technique that the US found to be a war crime during WWII.

I'm sure that it does get people to talk. If I was water boarded I'm fairly sure with in 30 minutes I'd confess to anything.

This IS torture. It is also a poor way to get information. The people administrating water boarding are not expert interrogators. The expert interrogators opted out of participating in this because it yields low quality information and is legally suspect.

If we were serious about this police and FBI investigators would be handling our terror investigations at all sites since they have career experience in obtaining useful information.

Here is a tip. If your interrogation techniques require a doctor to be present it's torture.

Techguy1138

What's taking so long for a video of this to be posted on YouTube? Someone is slacking! lol

skotty4

@lpranal: "but it doesn't change the fact that It's not effective enough on the terrorists" Are you certain it's not that effective?

Waterboarding may be unpleasant, but I don't see it as torture... where is the outcry that our special forces units are being tortured by our own government? Navy SEALS have to endure worse for longer periods of time during BUD/S training.

We're not holding your average-joe-done-no-wrong down in guantanamo and waterboarding him either... a lot of people make it sound like that's what we're doing... waterboarding everyone and everything 24/7... we just love our waterboarding...

Does America torture? If waterboarding is the worse we do, then I'll have to say, no, we don't torture.

Rabid Penguin

I find it so heartbreaking that we've been reduced to debating whether a practice is "torture" or merely awful to do to someone. We've obviously decided not to aspire to goodness when it's inconvenient.

This debate extends to the highest levels of government, with disgusting results. Bush legal adviser John Yoo debated Notre Dame professor Doug Cassel in 2006, and they had this exchange:

Cassel: If the president deems that he's got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person's child, there is no law that can stop him?

Yoo: No treaty.

Cassel: Also no law by Congress - that is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo…

Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.

The fact that anyone would stoop to defend such behavior, if the President "thinks he needs to do that", is so repugnant. These are the minds that are counseling the highest levels of the executive on what is legal and proper.

zan

@Sir_NightSky: From an account of a 1947 war crimes trial:

Hata, the camp doctor, was charged with war crimes stemming from the brutal mistreatment and torture of Morris Killough "by beating and kicking him (and) by fastening him on a stretcher and pouring water up his nostrils." Other American prisoners, including Thomas Armitage, received similar treatment, according to the allegations.

Armitage described his ordeal: "They would lash me to a stretcher then prop me up against a table with my head down. They would then pour about 2 gallons of water from a pitcher into my nose and mouth until I lost consciousness."

Hata was sentenced to 25 years at hard labor, and the other defendants were convicted and given long stints at hard labor as well.

Waterboarding has been described as "simulated drowning" by some people, but others call it "controlled drowning", as it can involve actual water in the lungs. In the latter case, the waterboarding is done with the subject in a position where the water will drain naturally, to prevent death.

So the answer is: it's been torture and a war crime for over 60 years. And we convicted others for doing it.

zan

@Sir_NightSky:
Water boarding became torture in the war crimes trials after WWII. So it has been defined as so for some time.

It's an age old torture, it was used during the civil war and there are drawing of it being used in China pretty early on.

It's not new. It was used in the past as a form of torture. The US prosecuted people as war criminals for using it. The only new part of this is that we say it's not torture.

Techguy1138

@Rabid Penguin:
It's still a human rights violation and a war crime.
It's an awful idea and makes the US appear to be on the loosing end of a war where we are grasping at straws to try and get information.

Besides water boarding there is that Al Queda recruitment camp the US opened in IRAQ abu garab. It is very clear that what happened there is torture as it is classically defined.

So, based on what is documented public knowledge the US does torture. The only thing we are arguing about is how bad is it and is it justified.

Given how this is pretty much falling into the jihadi hands as way to prove the US is a morally bankrupt oppressor in the Middle East it also has dubious value on our long term goals.

Techguy1138

What you're describing isn't the same as what's done to garner intelligence. Is it torture to put someone in a heated room until they fry? Yes. Is it torture to put someone in a "warm" room because they're not behaving, and not let them out until they do behave? No. Is it torture to poor water in someone's nostrils causing them to lose consciousness intending to cause bodily harm? Yes. Is it torture to wrap someone's head in a wet towel and poor water over them, yet doing it in a way that doesn't cause bodily harm? I'd say no. I know people love to hate the US, but we give more rights to terrorists than those in the Hague.

I don't hear anyone yelling about the opposition, and how they cut people's heads and limbs off, or how we've found real torture chambers that really define torture when compared to waterboarding. I hear more sympathy for those doing real harm to the world in the name of bashing the US.

Bottom line, making someone uncomfortable for a short period of time (2 minutes is the longest anyone has been waterboarded), is not torture. There is no long term damage, and any psychological damage someone would say they received could also be attributed to someone being in incarcerated in the first place.

Sir_NightSky

Quite honestly, my personal opinion is that waterboarding had its time, and I don't think is necessary now. That said, I wish people would grow a set and realize there are things far worse than a swirly. I think we should just push every inmate of Guantanamo into a maximum security prison with the general pop. I'm sure they'd love to go back to having pizza and waterboarding parties after a few days of being someone's bitch.

Sir_NightSky

@Sir_NightSky: Al Qaeda thinking the USA is morally bankrupt really doesn't mean much to me. And any Muslim country that says we're oppressing them is laughable too... they do a fine job of oppressing themselves. And I doubt we use the same waterboarding techniques the Japanese did. I highly doubt anyone is getting jumped on. They're basically bobbing for apples... without the apples... compared to the treatment they'd probably receive in any other country, that aint so bad.

Rabid Penguin

@Curves: So you suggest we just ask nicely and they will tell us where theyre going to kill Americans next?

In some situations the power of please doesn not apply.

Im not totally heartless, i believe they should be actually convicted first so were not roughly interrogating someone that is truely innocent, but when convicted i belive that chopping off fingers is a good way to start.

venomous_duck41

@Techguy1138: "It is very clear that what happened there is torture as it is classically defined."

Pyramids and panties, ooooh!!!!

"The only thing we are arguing about is how bad is it and is it justified."

Not bad at all, and yes.

@Curves: Good girl! Waterboarding is not being done for fun, but to protect millions of families like yours with no damage done to the recipient. It's not a punishment, so the matter of guilt or innocence doesn't necessarily apply. (There is however, no reason to think that we have ever done this to any innocent individual.)

@lpranal: I quoted exactly and answered precisely. Perhaps you need to be clearer in your writing, thinking, or both.

GadgetPlay