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Pioneer Sneaks Out US$2200 Elite BDP-09FD; First Blu-ray Player That Crushes the PS3
Posted by Wilson Rothman at 7:05 AM on August 23, 2008
Last May Pioneer told us that autumn would bring a "super duper" Blu-ray player—the most powerful Blu-ray player ever built. It makes up for the current crop, which are lower in price but are missing key features like BD-Live for internet-based content. Well, not a leaf has fallen off a tree, yet here it is already, the US$2,200 Elite BDP-09FD. Feature-wise, the best Blu-ray player on the market has been the PS3—turns out, an extra US$1,700 will buy you something that kills Sony's game console as far as Blu-ray and other media are concerned.
As you probably guessed, Pioneer finally accepts the need for 2.0. This will come with Ethernet and be fully capable of BD-Live playback, no firmware updates needed at the get-go. Unlike other BD-Live players, which require SD cards, this one comes with 4GB of internal memory for downloads.
The thing is a Mack truck, 20 or 22kg of steel and aluminium with everything mounted carefully to eliminate vibration. The bottom layer of the aluminum-housed chassis is a quarter-inch plate of solid steel, and it's even got feet from a Japanese company called TAOC, supposedly the most vibration-free platform you can get. There are no wires inside either; all connections are physically mounted from the circuit board to the walls to reduce noise.
Pioneer says all of the engineering is so that this can be a single box that replaces some home theatre snob's high-end CD player, DVD player and previous-gen Blu-ray player, blowing each in turn out of the water.
In the audio department, Pioneer recommends using this for decoding all music and movie soundtrack, and going analogue out with those gold-plated 7.1 RCA jacks. It's decodes all known codecs from DTS and Dolby using a separate digital-to-analogue converter for each channel. This is a little like having a separate motor for each wheel of your car. Combining this with some crazy audio engineering, they created a way for "completely perfect noise-free signal" to come through RCA jacks instead of the costlier old-school XLR jacks. "It's far better than what you find in most receivers," says Pioneer's Chris Walker. In fact, everything, including speaker preferences and other receiver-like tweaks, are adjustable from inside the player.
It's also got that crazy CD-playback technique first seen on Pioneer's summer models: When used with certain Pioneer receivers, it produces jitter-free disc playback.
In terms of video, it has 1080p/24 for Blu-ray and DVD content too, as you might expect, with a best-on-the-market image processor also found in Meridian's crazy 10-megapixel projector.
The 09's next-level achievement is that it upconverts colour information to 16 bits, previously unheard of because nobody had a system that could handle 16-bit colour data. (Pioneer had to build their own for this mission.) That means that each picture can have up to "2,800 trillion" (um, 2.8 quadrillion??) colours, which the processor interpolates by looking at each frame of the Blu-ray's 8-bit colour movie. Though most TVs only process 10-bit, Walker says that it's better to send over a richer signal that the TV has to tone down, than letting the TV upgrade the Blu-ray data itself. When TVs hit 16-bit, this sucka will be ready.
Cooler to me are the two HDMI jacks on the back. It's a first for a Blu-ray player (or PS3), and it means you can hook up the same player to both your projector and your flat-panel display without a splitter or some on-the-fly rewiring. You can even split it up so that HDMI 1 only does audio, while HDMI 2 does video, freeing up more video bandwidth, especially in those pesky longer cables that might get a bit choked. The HDMI can detect the source, and automatically determine what audio and video to send over.
Obviously, some people are going to be content with their PS3s for the time being (after all, they are only US$500, a small price by comparison). And Walker acknowledges that speed is always going to be the saving grace of the game console. ("If we were to build a Blu-ray player around an Intel or Cell processor, we'd have those kinds of speeds too.") But as far as picture and audio output, nothing quite resembles this "super duper" machine. And on top of all that, we can stop bitching about Pioneer ignoring BD-Live, and getting on with the future. Now, seriously, why would ANYONE buy Pioneer's last batch? Save your money, home-theatre snobs. This badass will be out soon. [Pioneer]

Comments (AU Comments · US Comments)
There are currently no AU comments for this post.
snakepliskin
Posted 7:47 AM 23/8/08
@kaizoku80: I think hes referring to the fan noise.
snakepliskin
kaizoku80
Posted 7:43 AM 23/8/08
@Techguy1138:
You know, they make this fancy contraption called a remote control that lets you turn the volume down...
kaizoku80
Acerone
Posted 7:40 AM 23/8/08
No thanks... My PS3 will do just fine...
Acerone
Techguy1138
Posted 7:36 AM 23/8/08
This actually sounds kind of reasonable. The ps3 is a great kicking around player but it is simply to loud. When playing back cd's or dvd's the noise is distracting.
This also has the advantage if I can play back a CD without having to turn on my tv. I don't like having to navigate through menus to play simple media.
It is to bad I'm past the age of buying fancy audio and video gadgets. I would have liked this one.
Techguy1138
DaveExile
Posted 7:34 AM 23/8/08
@bosskev:
My thoughts exactly
"If we were to build a Blu-ray player around an Intel or Cell processor, we'd have those kinds of speeds too."
At $2200, "if" should not be in your vocabulary.
DaveExile
aec007
Posted 7:30 AM 23/8/08
@notwhoyouthink:
Exactly!....
Rothman, please define "crush"...
Crush my wallet, maybe?
aec007
bosskev
Posted 7:24 AM 23/8/08
And, if indeed this speed spec IS a good thing to have, why the hell DOESN'T this "ultimate" $2,200 Blu-ray player include an Intel or Cell processor?
OT: -37
bosskev
ronnsprocket
Posted 7:22 AM 23/8/08
@ronnsprocket: by better, i mean better financial decision for most humans.
ronnsprocket
notwhoyouthink
Posted 7:21 AM 23/8/08
it may beat the ps3 as far as a bluray player but $2200 vs $500, ps3 wins.
notwhoyouthink
ronnsprocket
Posted 7:20 AM 23/8/08
this is for dumb consumers...or ignorant consumers I should say.
I'm no audiophile, but im incredibly anal about my electronic setup...within reason. a $400 PS3 and a $500 home theatre system would be better. and I have to imagine the A/V quality would be neglible in comparison.
also, I can play madden.
ronnsprocket
axiomatic
Posted 7:18 AM 23/8/08
So Pioneer has finally caught up to where the HD-DVD spec was at before it was killed off. Well done.
axiomatic
Hiphopopotamus
Posted 7:12 AM 23/8/08
Can it play Madden NFL?
Hiphopopotamus
barkingart
Posted 8:11 AM 23/8/08
If the data is 8 bit, uprezzing it to 16 bit isn't going to give you better color, meaning a wider color gamut. It will give you smoother gradations, but your color palette doesn't magically widen. The data needs to be 16 bit in order for you to get the wider spectrum that this device promises.
A separate DAC for each audio channel is a wonderful thing to have! Overall, this level of tech should trickle down in a couple of years to an affordable level.
barkingart
snakepliskin
Posted 8:07 AM 23/8/08
@kaizoku80: Haha. My ps3 is actually pretty damn loud. Its not a problem till i get to a point in a movie where its quiet then i can hear that fan going nuts. But i figure im just gonna get an aftermarket fan and put it into a cabinet.
snakepliskin
ConstyXIV
Posted 8:03 AM 23/8/08
@Noobs-R-Us: Since all Blu-Ray players do Java as part of the spec, it's possible in theory.
@jiffy: It had better be near 10-20x better than the PS3's BRD player, considering that the BRD player is only part of the PS3's price.
ConstyXIV
kaizoku80
Posted 8:02 AM 23/8/08
@snakepliskin:
In that case they make a fancy contraption called a remote control that lets you turn the volume UP!
FWIW, I've never had excessive noise coming from my PS3...in fact, I have to turn the volume up when playing DVDs because the volume output on games is so much higher.
kaizoku80
Noobs-R-Us
Posted 7:53 AM 23/8/08
@Hiphopopotamus: You beat me to it, I was going to ask if it plays Doom?
Noobs-R-Us
jiffy
Posted 7:49 AM 23/8/08
But for that price it doesn't need to be better than the PS3, it needs to be 5x better than it.
(looks very nice though, so there may be some envy behind my snark)
jiffy
fastm3driver
Posted 8:31 AM 23/8/08
@ronnsprocket: I agree. does anyone really use separates that they need the audio broken up anymore? I have tried this with a few systems and know others that have and it never really works that great. Unless you have a huge theater then it would be required I guess. then again that is probably the person who needs a $2200 player. I would like to see a comparison on average LCD, plasma, DLP, and projection screens compared to the PS3, hd-dvd, and a good up converter. Using say "normal" people.
This is like 7.1 and HD audio to me. No one wants more than 6 speakers in their house and there is marginally better sound for a bunch more hassle.
fastm3driver
BanMeAgainBrianLam
Posted 8:28 AM 23/8/08
I agree... exactly how does this "crush" the PS3 other than in price?
BanMeAgainBrianLam
JEmlay
Posted 8:18 AM 23/8/08
That article failed to tell me what I get for the extra $1,700.
JEmlay
kaizoku80
Posted 8:15 AM 23/8/08
@snakepliskin:
Maybe I just haven't noticed it yet...I don't use my PS3 much.
kaizoku80
farcast
Posted 8:14 AM 23/8/08
Don't forget the new Marantz BD-8002 Blu-ray player. $2,000. Not sure if it's been reviewed a lot yet.
farcast
scarbrtj
Posted 8:52 AM 23/8/08
The first three minutes of 2001: A Space Odyssey are going to look *amazing* on this bad boy. Am I right?
scarbrtj
HellTempest
Posted 8:51 AM 23/8/08
$2,200 Vs. $500.....
An extra $1,700...
And you can play games on the PS3...
An extra $1,700...
The PS3 is faster....
AN EXTRA $1,700!!!!!!!
HellTempest
Xavoc
Posted 8:50 AM 23/8/08
@fastm3driver: I want more than 6 speakers in my house, but not necessarily all in the same room. =)
Xavoc
snakepliskin
Posted 8:43 AM 23/8/08
@kaizoku80: Well actually sony produced ps3s with different fans and i just happened to get one from a batch that had newer curved fans. The curved fans apparently move air out much better but theyre loud as hell. Where as my friend has a launch ps3 and you never hear it at all.
snakepliskin
daftrok
Posted 10:31 AM 23/8/08
Make it $1000 dollars and it's a good deal.
daftrok
Kartune
Posted 10:20 AM 23/8/08
the $2200 price tag makes this thing a peice of crap in my opiniom. most of us middle class people consider that a down-payment on a used car. i think i'll stick to using my playstaion.
Kartune
Junginator
Posted 11:23 AM 23/8/08
They don't call them "Audiofools" for nothing.
Junginator
heroineworshipper
Posted 11:35 AM 23/8/08
Probably still powering all those 4GB using the same slow Sigma chip & SQLLite database as the previous ones.
heroineworshipper
kaizoku80
Posted 1:45 PM 23/8/08
@Kartune:
Hell, I consider myself middle class and to me $2200 IS a used car!
kaizoku80
frink
Posted 2:11 PM 23/8/08
@BanMeAgainBrianLam: It literately crushes it... it is 50 pounds!
frink
ab3
Posted 2:09 PM 23/8/08
Why would you output via the 7.1 analog outputs? The analog signal would degrade as it traveled via wire to a reciever. If you sent it digital via HDMI, coax, or optical you would have no signal loss.
ab3
SpudMills
Posted 2:31 PM 23/8/08
@ab3: You'd do this if you don't have a receiver or pre/pro with HDMI or that can decode all the new codecs, etc.
I still say they need to concentrate on making these things faster to load and react to the remote. Our Panasonic DMP-BD50K is butt slow. Hell, even a super cheap Realistic front-loading VCR is faster!
SpudMills
otis123
Posted 3:49 PM 23/8/08
woha, that would be awsome with my new 61" dlp... but ill stick with my ps3.
otis123
otis123
Posted 3:58 PM 23/8/08
@scarbrtj:
have u seen it on a ps3? even on my old 52" 1080i it look jaw droping, i should really watch that on my new 61" baby
otis123
dc-united
Posted 11:50 PM 23/8/08
@ronnsprocket:
"a $400 PS3 and a $500 home theatre system would be better. and I have to imagine the A/V quality would be neglible in comparison."
Sorry, but no. Not even close. A $400 PS3 is only better because you can play games on it. I have a mid-level consumer-grade home theater (using separates) that cost somewhere north of $12K and I guarantee you it will blow away any $500 home-theater-in-a-box setup you can find.
I've lost track of the number of times people have come over to watch movies (after disparaging my setup) and said stuff like "Wow, i never heard that at home" Well, duh.
The Pioneer Elite line has always had excellent components, but always on the pricey end. You pay for build quality, noise isolation, and looks. $2200 is too much for me, though. I'll wait a little bit for the technology to trickle down.
dc-united
reddingofish
Posted 11:48 PM 23/8/08
People who dis Pioneer Elite systems have never experienced an Elite system.
reddingofish
scarbrtj
Posted 11:48 PM 23/8/08
@otis123:
I don't know about "jaw-dropping"... check out those first three minutes once more...
scarbrtj
frigg
Posted 12:18 AM 24/8/08
@ab3: Signal degradation over a small distance of analog cable at line level is imperceptible. What matters more is the quality of the analog to digital converters. If the converters in the Pioneer were superior to anything else you had, that's where you'd want to do your conversion, and output the analog signal to your amps/speakers (although a digital out option is nice as well).
frigg
alexmg2420
Posted 12:10 AM 24/8/08
My wallet wouldn't be crushed, it'd be pulverized. To take $2200 out of it, then set a 50 lb. machine on top, how could be poor wallet stay alive? :(
alexmg2420
OneObuyan
Posted 12:08 AM 24/8/08
Pretty impressive, but does other features stack up against the DENON [DVD-3800BDCI] Blu-ray™ Disc DVD/CD Player [www.usa.denon.com] which let me tell you is awesome, I saw one playing in the showroom the other day and simply below me away.
OneObuyan
PeteeWJ
Posted 2:56 AM 24/8/08
For $2200 this thing should have Wifi. The PS3 still has this advantage.
PeteeWJ
hindsight2020
Posted 11:45 AM 24/8/08
@PeteeWJ: exactly, this thing cannot stream wirelessly! forghetaboutit!
hindsight2020
Jitty
Posted 2:22 PM 24/8/08
@snakepliskin:
I don't know what you guys are talking about. The PS3 the only gets loud if the room temp. is 80+ degrees F. And if it is, that is your problem (too hot IMO) My 60GB from 4 months after launch is barely audible and I usually keep my volume quieter than most people. And I my friends new 40GB PS3 is virtually inaudible. I had to put my ear literally on the PS3 to hear it =\
Jitty
lilaliendog
Posted 3:15 AM 26/8/08
nice so now the ps3 needs a firmware update to increase audio and video ability to beat this things capabilities.
lilaliendog
selianth
Posted 5:15 AM 26/8/08
@Jitty: We keep our house at a pleasant 72 degrees F, the PS3 is kept clear of dust and is well ventilated, and we still often get the fan coming on high speed after about 45 minutes of watching a movie.
FWIW, we are just finishing up our basement home theater (139" 2.36:1 screen) and while we are willingly spending many thousands of dollars on receiver, speakers, projector, etc., we will not be bothering to upgrade the PS3 for playing our Blu-Ray movies. Probably best I don't know what I'm missing.
selianth
VideoVampire
Posted 6:25 AM 26/8/08
Mostly I like all the metal, and the heft, but I already have a PS3 so maybe I will keep an eye on this to buy next year when the price is decent.
VideoVampire
Kartune
Posted 10:22 AM 27/8/08
@kaizoku80: haha yeah man, you're soo right lol
Kartune
Drag0nFly
Posted 7:08 AM 27/8/08
A solid construction is basically a given in this price range, and I hope they put a robust, non-plastic drive into this thing. I've seen way too many expensive players where this "little detail" has been omitted.
Also, with the thorough (and *very* welcome) effort that has been put into the analog stage, I would really hope it isn't too late for them to seriously consider adding SACD & DVD-Audio. It would be such a waste not to have it.
It isn't stated whether it supports DivX/XviD, but that is obviously extremely useful as well. (And a feature which all recent Pioneer's have had.)
Drag0nFly
Drag0nFly
Posted 12:15 AM 27/8/08
A solid construction is basically a given in this price range, and I hope they put a robust, non-plastic drive into this thing. I've seen way too many expensive players where this "little detail" has been omitted.
Also, with the thorough (and *very* welcome) effort that has been put into the analog stage, I would really hope it isn't too late for them to seriously consider adding SACD & DVD-Audio. It would be such a waste not to have it.
It isn't stated whether it supports DivX/XviD, but that is obviously extremely useful as well. (And a feature which all recent Pioneer's have had.)
Drag0nFly
Drag0nFly
Posted 12:08 AM 27/8/08
A solid construction is basically a given in this price-range, and I hope they put a robust, non-plastic drive into this thing as well. I've seen way too many expensive players where this "little detail" has been omitted.
Also, with the thorough (and *very* welcome) effort that has been put into the analog stage, I would really hope it isn't too late for them to seriously consider adding SACD & DVD-Audio. It would be such a waste not to have it.
It isn't stated whether it supports DivX/XviD, but that is obviously an extremely useful feature (which all recent Pioneer DVD players have had.)
Drag0nFly
HollyDampie
Posted 2:43 AM 25/8/08
The only time my PS3's fan noise level goes up is when I have my glass door closed on my wall unit that houses my PS3. I just simply open the doors and the fan noise goes down. It's due to mainly the amount of heat the system generates due to the doors being closed. Maybe if you relocate your PS3 to place where it's not enclose, the fan noise would never increase.
HollyDampie
Steven_H_Taylor
Posted 3:08 AM 24/8/08
"kills Sony's game console as far as Blu-ray and other media are concerned." Yet $500 will get me SACD playback while $2,200 doesn't? Why is Sony still the only company that's figured out how to combine BD, DVD, SACD and CD playback in a single drive? Pioneer's DVD players and Home Theater Systems show their continued support for the format. I'll stick to my PS3 for now.
Steven_H_Taylor
baronzemo78
Posted 7:14 AM 23/8/08
This seems stupid. No one will ever be able to tell the difference in picture or sound quality with double blind tests to the PS3. I'd bet money on that.
baronzemo78