It's not that PC manufacturers are going out of their way to make their PCs easy tools to pirate with; it's just that they are not going to go out of their way to cripple their PCs, and lose sales to boot, in order to make it more difficult to pirate with.

So software piracy is not a "hidden benefit" but rather letting it be is an "averted loss of profit."

There is a difference there.

Of course, content holders (MPAA, RIAA) love to talk about "loss" when it's actually only "profit we could have made IF all the downloaded files were purchased" so no surprise that Todd views the situation this way.

Dearhaw

Yeah, because everyone knows that the billion pcs in the world were bought for playing Doom...

VakeroRokero

@urbanturban666: agreed.

rainfever

@Cultivar: Entire industry?

No such thing.

There's ALWAYS someone willing to sell out. That's how IBM clones, now the industry standard outside of Macs, began - with rogue Taiwanese corporations shooting the finger at IBM, making BIOS firmware that skirted the edges of the law and dumping it on the market at prices so low, it practically gutted IBM.

If, for example, every computer maker in the Western world went for the Trusted Computer platform, China wouldn't. Because they would NOT believe that the West wouldn't put some BIOS-embedded snitchware into the systems.

So China would start making their own, and those of us in the West who didn't trust government approved Trusted Machines would buy from China.

It's actually happening now - the People's Republic of China is still somewhat leery that Windows might have US government mandated snitchware embedded in it, and they've taken to making and distributing their own carefully cleaned up version of Linux - the People's Linux, it's nicknamed, though the official title is "Red Flag Linux."

[en.wikipedia.org]

(Red Flag... someone in China apparently has a sense of humor. I approve. Heh.)

So don't go thinking that the world can be locked in to a single, "trusted" computing platform. There are enough distrustful governments in the world today that no *single* platform can achieve a working monopoly.

Even a government-mandated format, enforced at gunpoint won't work, if only because there will always be more than one government, and they'll have rival agendas.

On top of that, even locked hardware won't remain locked, as long as there's one person with time on their hands and an urge to hack.

Try reading Cory Doctorow's novel "Little Brother", available free as an ebook. You'll see what I mean. Between governments with opposing interests and individuals with no other jobs to occupy their time with, it's impossible to create a totally locked down platform, no matter how much some software makers would like them to do so.

It literally can't be done. Someone will crack it, either on government orders, or out of boredom and amusement value, or out of revolutionary/religious fervor.

But the world's software publishers don't want to believe that. Pity - it's like watching people who don't want to believe the world's round. Sad and amusing at the same time.

Ed.

Ed_Becerra

So we have a software developer moaning that PC manufacturers are implicit in allowing piracy, yet there are plenty of developers that will give/sell you software to circumnavigate copy protection systems on DVD's etc.- where you can then torrent or give to friends etc

Can't have it both ways- it's not all the fault of PC manufacturers. Software developers themselves are as implicit in allowing piracy.

jimbowyer

I work for a PC manufacturer and I've never heard that.

Junginator

@urbanturban666: Millionaires keep trying to stuff their coffers because every time they check them, they find them empty, because their coffers can never be filled. See, that is the deal they sign with the devil for everything they have.

SinAmos

Software manufactrers also do, but they don't dare to say it.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

i never got past the 1st season on burn notice,
can i get the 2nd season (if there was one) on the interwebbster?
(does anyone know IF it's avalible? that's ok i will look for it, don't need to know were i can get it, just if it even exists, i hope i can buy it legally online, lol)

laio

@SinAmos: now your on the trolley!!! that ID guy should quit whining... If i was a multi millionare id retire and do more with my life than whine...

urbanturban666

@crash1105: Which speed limit, where? And when? Speed limits vary and are subject to change.

@NoStyle: I have tried to use that argument with myself, but I realized the problem with it. It's like saying that it's okay for me to steal a diamond ring, because if I didn't steal it, I would only buy it at a pawn shop or not buy it at all.

CSX321

@Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish: I already have the poor man's copyright.

SinAmos

Todd Hollenshead has a good point, and by good I mean retarded.

PC makers don't ship crippled PCs because *nobody fucking wants them*. Are they happy about piracy? No, they just don't care either way. It's not their problem, nor should it be.

mullingitover

They're right though - I just bought a new laptop and budgeted an extra $300 towards it because I knew I wasn't going to be paying for the software I need to install on it.

Hiphopopotamus

@SinAmos: How about I copyright this and sue your ass?

Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish

@DisposableInterloper: Intellectual property is a farce pushed on us by fascist capitalists. The idea that inventors need to profit from their discoveries is a bloated, floating pile of dookie. I say let chaos and freedom reign, and lets kick disease, poverty, waste, and self-adulation in the ass. Sacrifice for the greater good and everyone and give that shit up. Stop clinging on to it like it will be your only good idea and if it is your only good idea, shut up and go cry in a corner. We don't need you. We don't need the one trick pony. 1 good song and the rest garbage. :)

SinAmos

Piracy is not quite the right word for what they try to claim drains them. Piracy would be if I copied a program and sold it as new, cutting into their profits, or claimed the intellectual property as my creation.

For those who download copies, if this method was not available, they would buy used copies, and the manufacturer would not see a cent anyways.

NoStyle

OK, sure, Todd, and you've been using piracy as an excuse to inflate game prices for 20 years. Pot, meet kettle - hey, what a coincidence, you're both black!

Illrigger

@Sandtiger: I'm pretty sure being part of the Geek Squad team at your local Best Buy doesn't count, but I'll give you indirect brownie points.

Slow down; I'm just joshing.

SinAmos

@urbanturban666: the same way gun manufactures make the US's murder rate (exponentially wonderful)..

and what about violent video games that help children plan murder suicide attacks in junior high..

or the benefit cucumber farmers see for lonely housewives...

it's all tied together...do you see the pattern?

SinAmos

I wouldn't mind going to Grave of MPAA and dancing around it for a while.

Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish

duuude... i just read about SEALAND the "nation" on the bottom left corner, its amazing, and very interesting, you guys should check it out! [en.wikipedia.org]

nick

@crash1105: had to think quick to get my post in first :P....

pc makers have to ship an os in there pcs (some agreement, i think microsoft had something to do with it). i think 99% of consumer pcs ship with a microsoft os (only vista now unless you got a netbook). If pc makers saw piracy as a hidden benefit why not ship all there systems with ubuntu so that you can save 100$ or more and install a bootleg copy of vista when you got it home?...

urbanturban666

As someone that works for a PC Manufacturer I only have one comment: WTH??!!!

Sandtiger

@urbanturban666:
It's not so much the specific dealing as it is the mode of it. Consumers naturally pirate software, and by shutting them out of that, there would be a backlash.

I'll also note that infringement of intellectual property is a far cry from physical dealings that can do immediate harm.

DisposableInterloper

How does this man plan to prove this? Telepathy?!

Joolz

@urbanturban666: well the sports cars yes or all cars would only go the speed limit
but the rest is moronic at best

crash1105

There'd be no user revolt if every manufacturer swapped to the new system in a short span. What are people going to do - cease using computers? Piracy would be pretty easy to stop if the entire computing industry from top to bottom grabbed their sack and universally agreed to poor profits for a few years while they implement a ground-up mechanism for stopping it. But since someone like iD makes their money in a seperate way from, say, Asus or Nvidia or Microsoft, and noone like low profit, they wouldn't do that if it killed them not to. Which it may do in the end.

Whenever I think of software piracy, I remember the rich bastards at the top, and suddenly I don't care so much.

Cultivar

the same way sports car makers see speeding (illegal) as a hidden benefit?

do appliance makers see meth cooking as a hidden benefit?

or how prepaid mobile carriers see drug dealing as a hidden benefit?

urbanturban666

nice pic

emercado15

@SinAmos: bro are you serious... so you are saying people are still inclined to innovate without fiscal motivation. would you go to work without getting paid... i dont think so. dont get me wrong i infringe on IP rights all the time, but i also respect them and pay for them. A good example of where IP isnt respected or rewarded is China, how innovative is China?

purple-pillows

@SinAmos: And then we will all join hands and get into our candy raft and paddle it down to the chocolate stream only to realise that we are living in a pipe-dream, and realise that we need to get back to real factual life.

DozeUser

@Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish: Sounds like an awesome idea man

DozeUser

Instead of bitching like a little girl, ID should just cease making games on PC altogether and start selling donuts. You can't pirate those sugary caramel donuts!!

HobbaHobba

@SinAmos: If no one got paid for their work, there wouldn't be teams of 1000 engineers working full-time on an OS. There wouldn't be tons of software apps available. There wouldn't be AAA games.

I'm an undergrad computer science student, and aspiring programmer. I believe people should be paid for their work, and copyright law protects people whose work is a bunch of 0's and 1's arranged a certain way.

Saying copyright is bullshit is saying my work is worth nothing.

tex1ntux

@tex1ntux: Because the truth is, a majority of the "hard work" doesn't get funded or is even in this equation, and yet like all the sheep, you baaahhhh. You are convinced you need to get "yours." What do we need in a modern civilization? You need more chemicals in your fast food, more radiation in your "IPHONE", more diets to get your fat ass off the couch and on to the floor so you can do push ups. Human beings are survivors and adapters, the most sophisticated organism to come from this planet, but you think we need money? You GRID MONKEYS really do have the IQ's of snails and that might be saying too much.@DozeUser: You live a "pipe-dream" every day of your life when you buy into a system that is inefficient, malicious, and self-sustained by the ignorantly blissful such as yourself. There is life on mars; bacteria, water, trees, and other things, but NASA, for examples, slowly feeds data to you. Hmmmm. Our government jacks our "WORTH" by first telling us what our worth is, then sending it off to banks that own your life. You are an inconsequential ant in a machine that doesn't give an F about you, so tell me this, when we all die because BIG OIL, BIG BANKY, BIG BROTHER don't give a rat's ass about the environment, your health, or this planet.

Oh, and I by the way, I live in reality, and in this reality I'm an f---ing genius and every one else is a hapless monkey see, monkey do automaton of infinite stupidity.

Bureaucracy and organization sacrifices the intelligence of a singular few with a medium model of mediocrity. Everyone that brings the average down takes down everyone along with them, or haven't you noticed, our leaders aren't the most intelligent, gifted individuals, but the well-connected, birthed into power variety.

Stop getting spoon fed your belief systems.

SinAmos

This is the Dumbest argument I have ever heard, can't be that PC's have sold more than apple for many years and is considered the indrusty standard. If apple was the standard they would say the same thing about apple. maybe if we didn't sell software for a ridiculas price it wouldn't be stolen.

Cougenstein

@SinAmos: If Newton was alive today, we would pay for gravity to Philips.

@tex1ntux: good luck with that dude. That's like training to be a soldier and expecting people to stop shooting bullets before you graduate...

VakeroRokero

I'll shut up now sorry for the triple post

DozeUser

as for other forms of software (word processors etc...) if you look there is generally a freeware program that does what you need no one needs to resort to piracy

DozeUser

@tex1ntux: Piracy of software is stupid though, games are definitely worth the cash, and i buy far more music than i download, there is not a single song i have downloaded that i do not now own in some format (digital download,Cd,etc...)

DozeUser

The most impressive thing is SOFTWARE manufacturers see piracy as a hidden benefit.

lolec

@tex1ntux: Agreed to a point, imma still download the odd song

DozeUser

Simple economics:

Commoditize your complements.

Computer hardware products manufacturers want computer software to be a commodity.

Likewise, all computer software products manufacturers want computer hardware to be a commodity.

In this case, software piracy is simply another way to commoditize software.

rcme

sinamos does have a point...you dont really need software. If I saavy him/her, the people who do things that are truly neccessary to life are rarely the best paid. Its the owners who get paid. So who cares if some programmers/buinessman are shafted out a few bucks? try telling that to the farmer, the carpenter, the health care staff. But people dont care, they just keep thinking its wrong to pirate software, but dont care about other injustice.

thats what I got from it, ymmv, I dont neccessarily agree, but he/she does have point.

redkamel

I included {rant> and {/rant> tags for your viewing convenience, but appearantly the giz filtered those out as html :D

foebea

@drewls: Isn't that basically what every ignorant person says, like when someone said the Earth orbited the Sun. Perhaps you shouldn't speak unless you have something relevant to say or maybe if I disagree with you, I should form a mob and stone you to death. Isn't that what you are saying? You are the kind of person that is so insecure, that you need the comfort of an unchanging world to make it so you can sleep at night. You must be a Republican. Yay for the status quo!

SinAmos

Make software cheap for home users and charge the professional players. Adobe CS3 Suite for 100$ for the kid playing with it in his spare time. Then once he gets good at it and gets a job which makes money off the software they can buy the professional license for 2800$

I know the above argument does not work for all piracy, Games for example. Here's that argument I blame the industry for that though. In the old days I bought SO many games right off the shelf at 20, 30, then 40, now 50-80 bucks and i take them home only to find out they are complete crap looking nothing like the adverts. Now as I sit I have 30 or so games next to my computer which I bought in store, but I refuse to buy a game unseen any more. So many terrible products. I've downloaded demos from game companies and liking what i see i then buy the game only to find out its only about twice the demo? come on. thats such a scam. who should be expected to pay 50 dollars for a game with only 10 hours of content?

I'm a smalltime software developer. I have maybe 1 year of experience coding. The year before I started that I payed 200 bucks for 4 licenses for kavoom km. the first PC application I wrote does the same thing with more features. Why do developers insist on overpricing thier wares? You can imagine how stupid I felt once I realized how easy programs can be. Check out Chameleon Clock, one of the most pirated alarm clock softwares. 3 hours in Visual Studio Express (free, thanks microsoft) gets you the same applications with whatever features you want without having to spend 30 bucks on someone elses vision. 30 bucks x how many paying customers they have had over the past years for about 3 hours worth of work.

foebea

@SinAmos:

Speaking of spoon-fed, I hear that you missed a dose of meds today. Better hurry up and take em if you don't want to end up in the 'quiet room' for the rest of the night. ;P

drewls

@Crowbot: Well, in a system where every pale faced American before you stole the land and stamped their families crest on it, you can't do that, can you. You are going to have to live at your mom's house for the rest of your life, because you won't be able to afford anything from your gaming lifestyle. At least you have your games, right?

SinAmos

@SinAmos: I'd really like to move out of my moms house.

Crowbot

Yet, you speak our language, work our network, and use our system. We are all tools, some more effective than others. If you are the puppet master and dictate your future, yet assimilate certain values to further your agenda, you still retain your toolship. The leadership in all areas dictate how the tools work together, and if those leaders don't care about tool well-fare, well, tools just get used up and discarded and replaced by new tools. I want a system that takes care of the tools responsibly and treats them with the respect they deserve.

SinAmos

build a network of trust man it's the best you can do

man sometimes i am really saddened by my lack of faith in humanity...

DozeUser

@SinAmos: There are too many people who are obsessed with themselves for that ever to work man, though I admire the thought, take care of yourself build strong relationships with other and help them out but don't rely on them because they are after all human

DozeUser

I guess what I am getting at is that I am a tool of myself, not of god not of the government not "The man" not "BIG BROTHER".

DozeUser

@DozeUser: My words are purely poetics to engage individuals on subjects that are important to me and are rarely discussed because people are too busy bashing "Iphone" articles into our consciousness because they are getting kickbacks. I have a great respect for other human beings when it comes to their creativity, wit, and humor, but their weaknesses of greed, selfishness, and materialism irk me so. Imagine so if I was a politician and my language had to be guarded and sophisticated in its banality. What could we learn from each other then? Openness and open source is the way to go. People in life play politics because of monetary gain and power, instead of helping each other in a common bond of freedom, liberty, and justice. GIVE. That is the message. GIVE A LOT without a thought to your own being and when you need, we will be there for you. I live in that world even if it doesn't exist at the moment because of unenlightened individuals.

SinAmos

@SinAmos: Man spoken like every other "Non-Conformist" before you I'll stick with living life for myself, fuck the system if this one is gone another one will show up eventually, we humans (obviously this excludes you Mr. "Genius") are creatures of habit.

DozeUser

I wouldn't agree with me either if I believed everything I read, listened to, watched, or consumed which has an agenda of total stupification and manipulation. I made that word up just for us. Peel the onion, please, and stop accepting everything as it is, even if that accepted truth is thousands of years old. Question everything or forever be the tool of someone else.

SinAmos

@SinAmos: I am all for intelligent discussion, and you have made some good points, points i have heard before and said this too before.

I would however like to refute that you are grounded in any form of reality, because i mean c'mon your I'm an infinite genius and everyone else is a monkey automaton, caught in the infinte loop of stupidity. That's like me saying "I'm the only real person in existance, you all only exist inside my mind. Thus if I die you are all fucked" you my friend are living a lie, learn to see the world as it is, use the system to your advantage.

Anyways like i said i am for intelligent conversation and i say good point but since you bashed me i do have to bash you back but i guess to even the scales you will bash me in some way to get even.

Either way it is quarter to 2 in the morning now we'll see how much of that makes sense in the morning.

DozeUser

@SinAmos: "Because the truth is, a majority of the "hard work" doesn't get funded or is even in this equation, and yet like all the sheep, you baaahhhh. You are convinced you need to get "yours." What do we need in a modern civilization? You need more chemicals in your fast food, more radiation in your "IPHONE", more diets to get your fat ass off the couch and on to the floor so you can do push ups. Human beings are survivors and adapters, the most sophisticated organism to come from this planet, but you think we need money? You GRID MONKEYS really do have the IQ's of snails and that might be saying too much"

Oh gawd, go watch Fight Club again.
Srsly.

tex1ntux

Thankee and long days and pleasant nights

DozeUser

@DozeUser: Word. Thanks for the stimulation, your words taken into my realm of thought. Peace.

SinAmos

@SinAmos: I do feel respected man, if i may we can both agree that you are showing me some level of respect at the moment and I you. If not disregard the rest. As humans and to a level yes I do agree we are tools of eachother, we have alot more intelligence than say a screwdriver, we are able to think of our own wellfare for a reason it's there to make sure (or at least now) that we get used responsibly. Either way man i do hate arguing you are quite intelligent can we at least agree to disagree? Agree to fight the man or the systems in our own way? In any rate man i forget who said it but "Don't forget to fight the man tonight... Or at least screw his woman." I look forward to discussing in the future.

DozeUser

@SinAmos: Have faith. Check out: Earth The Biography. A documentary about our planet and our origins. We owe our existence to our forefathers, bacteria. That simple. We are simply modified bacteria that have spread and adapted. The genius of our existence proves beyond any doubt, the divine nature of this reality. We have all the potential in the world and a world to prove it. If we are destined to destroy ourselves, let that destiny be fulfilled, but faith dictates that we have a greater destiny in store.

SinAmos

Back on topic?

My perspective...
I own a Mac.
I heard countless people who would be interested in switching to a Mac but are afraid to do so because they fear there is less pirated software available for that platform.
This shows that there are indeed a lot of persons who perceive software not worth buying, some because it is not a "physical product" others simply because it is so easily available.

I personally know several persons who own professional versions of software which they hardly use or which they only use partially simply because they can have it for free.
My opinion is that this has two side effects:
- the makers of these professional versions don't make any money out of it.
- the makers of lesser professional (and less expensive) software don't have clients because no one will buy their lesser professional version if they can get the best for free.

Particularly striking is the example of digital photography. Photoshop is likely to be one of the most pirated softwares for digital photography and makers of alternatives (maybe more focused on picture management and soft retouching) are struggling.

Office is also something similar. Many people, even companies, have Office installed on their machines without paying for it. This helps Microsoft entrench their position, but doesn't make them any money, and takes away all the attention to possibile alternatives (such as OpenOffice or iWorks (just to name a free and paid alternative)).

Piracy is really easy and has become so strong in mindset of people that it is hard to take away.

I think the perspective offered by someone here in the forum who said that PC manufacturers and software manufacturers have divergent targets (commodization of the other) is interesting.

Some here buy computers for thousands of dollars and then not a dime for software. Computer manufacturers are happy with it because leaving resources free makes it easy to purchase a new computer more often and having pirated software makes installing a new computer easy (don't have to care about licenses and all the rest).

I disagree with that view, but I know I am in a minority and it is indeed a sacrifice to purchase the software (at least for me). What bothers me is that people who actually make a lot of money don't WANT to purchase software, even if they could easily afford it.

For information:
- I purchased all of my software, even when it was available for free. Please don't call me stupid :-)
(and I own some). Of course I didn't purchase all the top version of software, since I cannot afford it, but I chose the best mix (for me).

pinolo

@SinAmos: I'm not saying I completely disagree with you; just that your generalizations aren't truths.

I've never worked a part time job because my time is worth more than $7.50/hr to me. I'm a very non-materialistic person (with only a few techie caveats... cell phone, laptop, desktop, TV/sound/games) and I never plan on having a savings account. My future programmer paychecks will be spent covering my modest living, and the rest spent on helping the needy whenever the next paycheck comes in. I plan on never taking out a loan, as I never want to be a modern day indentured servant. I know how to be happy with what I have, whether it is absolutely nothing or a bunch of cool stuff.

I do not want to work for the money; money is a necessity for survival in this age, and if I must work I will do it in a manner I enjoy. My passion is for enabling creative people. I'm not a creative type myself, but I have a great appreciation for the things creative people make. When I was younger I would get LEGO sets and build them exactly how the manual said and play with them, but my older brother would always take them apart and make something completely different. I never really cared because I was so impressed by the things he made, and I was glad my LEGO pieces could help him do it. That's why I want to become a game programmer, I see so much potential for expansion in that medium and I would love to help the artists and designers realize their ideas.

My point? I'm not a grid monkey. I'm just a guy trying to get by doing what I am good at and love doing.

tex1ntux

@tex1ntux: And your response is a pop. reference. Gawd, help us all!

SinAmos

i agree with him, when i was building a pc, i thought the same way. but i can honestly tell you that i realised there is plenty of cheap or even free software for the pc, such as tf2, trackmania nations, battlefield 2, etc.

roflwaffles

@Cultivar: Actually, there will always be manufacturers in other countries that will be more than willing to make TPM-less computers for people to use. All that will happen is that Sunny Xuang Xi Wang Trading Co. of Shenzhen will become a sought-after dealer of motherboards, rather than ECS, FIC, or Gigabyte.

markarian

@tex1ntux: This guy/gal is the exception to the type I just mentioned. My hat off to you sir!

Ambiguous Blob 2.0

@SinAmos: What "invention" have you sacrificed and given up for the greater good again "genius"?... Sounds like a empty new agey (made that word up for you) self important excuse/justification for pirating that "1 good song" to me. This argument never ceases to amaze me...

I think it all boils down to the value an individual places on art. Yeah, I just called video games art. It may not be considered art just yet on a mass conscious level, or even art in the classical sense, but given enough time I think things like games will on a whole eventually be elevated to the level of art like some films (or other forms of popular culture). What constitutes art? What separates a game like "Bio Shock" from the latest "Sonic" offering and classifying it as art when compared and contrasted to something like "Citizen Kane" and one of Michael Bay's latest opuses?... What separates and designates a "invention" (as you called it, I prefer the word "design") from being art or considered a "intellectual property"? Just because it's digital, and has the ability to be distributed digitally, means it should be automatically available for the masses for free?... Can a "design" occupy both spaces?

I guess it really boils down to a conversation of what kind of a value the average person puts on art, or your art (provided you have the ability to create any, that is)? Is it necessarily the property of the masses upon creation, or are you entitled to some form of compensation for it upon it's creation? Are you only entitled to payment once?... Who sets this "payment"? You, the maker (lord forbid!), or maybe the financier? What if it's your only form or means of supporting yourself, OR a skill you spent a lot of your time and money honing at a specialty school (like design school, music school, or game design school) or college? I think it boils down to a difference in ideals... Yes, the United States is a Capitalist nation populated with lots of capitalist pigs, where as you sound like person with a Socialist's or Communist's (Anarchist's perhaps?) disposition...

I really have to question your motivation for your argument about THIS here of all places, a site dedicated to consumerism (incase you didn't know they're "So much in love with shiny toys, it's unnatural" after all)... Are you a regular reader? If so, it kind of makes your argument sound a little hallow, in my opinion... How does making games free to you (or the masses if that makes you feel better) help improve the quality of life for the people of such a screwed up world you just spent several post so eloquently talking about again?... I see how it might improve YOUR immediate quality of life. I also have to question your ability to create or "invent" anything new and original (especially after you canned speech, "baaaahhh" indeed). It never fails to surprise and astonish me when someone speaks so impassioned about this from your POV. From personal experience, and a little prodding, it always comes as no surprise to hear of the person's inability to create or "invent" something new... How can anyone be expected to value something when they don't have a point of reference for the amount of work, talent, skill, and experience involved in something completely news creation/"invention"?

Rant over/ Sorry for the wall of text everyone...

Ambiguous Blob 2.0

I hold the same theory about shoe-makers vs sock-makers.

navvywavvy

Here in Mexico, few people know what Guitar Hero is because: you guessed it, The pirate copy doesn't come with a guitar!

VakeroRokero

@sliverstorm: And, even if it didn't devalue their machines, it's still time+money that can be better invested (read: reap more profit) elsewhere.

sliverstorm

The day hardware manufacturers get into the business of regulating what we can't do, we have a dark future ahead of us. PC's are about what you *can* do.

Besides, why should they spend their time developing hardware that lowers the value of their product in the eyes of the customer? Invest time+money to make product less valuable to customer = loosing business plan. Remember, Mr. Todd, the people who would gain are the music+movie industries. The computer makers only stand to loose. They aren't 'secretly happy'- they just don't care to help out the RIAA and MPAA at their own expense.

sliverstorm

I don't see why hardware vendors should be blamed for anything. Hardware is meant to function as it intended. Therefore my audio card outputs audio, my graphics card outputs video. If I happen to combine software into the mix and use both of those to rip a movie or burn music illegally then that's my choice and I'd accept responsibility. Hardware vendors shouldn't suffer, nor should those software developers who happened to make tools that people combine or utilize to accomplish the same tasks as burning a cd, or ripping audio be punished simply because they utilized current hardware or software tools.

Don't hate the hacker, hate the cracker, unless of course your a pirate then hardy har har.

addiktion

Too much to read in the comments. But, what an idea, put DRM in the hardware, because after all it has worked so well in the software.

jkr's bold comment

Piracy would stop if the games were not too expensive.

SewerShark

[www.gamesindustry.biz]

Mr.DuckSauce

@Cultivar: While I'm sure privacy advocates and the Gizmodo / Lifehacker folks would certainly hate it (and find a a way around it), I assume that most casual users wouldn't even notice it.

Norcross

@pinolo: I was worried about the lack of available software when I switched. The truth is, there's not really a Mac *scene* so much as there are a bunch of people who like to share with one another. It takes a little longer to find stuff, but it's still out there.

The truth is, though, on the Mac, I use primarily iLife, iWork and free software. The old exceptions are my occasional uses of Photoshop and Illustrator. If Adobe offered a pay-per-use plan for those programs, I'd be all for it. I use them so infrequently that there would be no reason for me to actually buy them. If I wasn't able to find a copy to download, I wouldn't use them at all. I figure I'm doing adobe a favor by helping to boost their proprietary formats and technologies, and I do it for free.

nomayo

It would be really entertaining though when they roll out their "super-dope-extra-special-anti-piracy-unhackable" platform and some twelve year old from norway breaks it the first night.

What wouldn't be entertaining is the fact that once again, the people who actually buy software are not only the ONLY ones who are inconvenienced by the anti-piracy methods, but they're paying for the hardware necessary to inconvenience them.

I haven't bought a PC game since I owned an 8mhz XT, and I've modded every console specifically to play burned games. I have, however, bought quite a few games and apps on my iphone already. Why? Well, They made it easy to buy them, and the prices were more within the realm of reality that I live in and closer to the real world value of what they're actually delivering.

If PC/Console games were $15-20, they'd probably sell 5-10 times as many. Take a look at the incredible business that stores like Gamestop are doing in the used market.

nomayo

When people make a product they charge as much as they can possibly get for it. They do not charge an amount that is appropriate to pay the workers, they charge as high a price as possible to make as high a profit as possible.

When people buy an item they pay as little as possible. If the price is lower than they are willing to pay, they do not pay a higher price because they think the product deserves to be more expensive.

There will always be a difference in what a seller wants for a product and what a buyer wants to pay. When I see software kingpins, record company moguls and the extremely wealthy complaining about peoplestealing their products, I want to laugh and vomit at the same time.

They want to stop piracy? Why don't they charge a realistic price for their products and make them available through a simpler interface.

Hardware guys will not hamstring their products for the benefit of the software guys. That is just dumb. The REAL software guys don't want that either. Both are striving to increase the capabilities of their product. Not restrict it.
The jerkoffs that want this are the same jerkoffs that sit in their mansions counting their Dad's money, doing nothing except drive the Justice system into the ground.

nospamsam

About the trusted computing platform, I pray for the day the MAFIAA will use a DRM scheme that will only work on a trusted platform. That day their sales will suddenly drop to zero.

Franssu

@urbanturban666:

My thoughts exactly. Have all of this software peeps never taken a basic philosophy or formal logic class?

newtype2011

I think the hardest part people have realizing about pirating software is how to relate it to physical means. Its hard to relate to anything with material, because it maintains the same exact function and looks entire the same without the cost. It is only mildly like duplicating a Rembrandt stroke for stroke and passing it out for free. People would still see the value in the original Rembrandt, at least in my opinion.

Software piracy is much worse because you lose nothing in the duplication but it makes the original work worth next to nothing. It says to the programmers that their work doesn't mean anything. Eventually nobody wins with piracy.

dman0586

@VakeroRokero: "good luck with that dude. That's like training to be a soldier and expecting people to stop shooting bullets before you graduate..."

Speaking as someone who has a degree in Computer Science and writes software for a living... I have to agree with tex1ntux.

If you don't pay the software creators somehow, no one is going to be writing any kewl new games. Or operating systems. Or, um.. anything.

Would you do your job strictly for the benefit of mankind?

ideaman2020

@SinAmos: I think you're being a little short-sighted there.

It's only fair to compensate creators for their works.

But I think we would be better served if intellectual property should be treated like patents: After a limited time, the exclusivity expires.

Feel free to debate ad infinitum about how long that limited exclusivity period should last...

ideaman2020

@SinAmos: I'm an genius? Oh, I applaud your masterful use of the English language, you must hold it in such high regards!

And, while you sit there, all high and mighty, insulting every one of us for being "greedy, materialistic, etc.," remember that you are the one infected with rabies flying off the handle over something like this.

HellTempest

@SewerShark:

No it wouldn't People always say this, but unless the software was throwaway cheap people would still pirate it.

People who complain about game prices now don't remember the early Nintendo days. Paying 60+ dollars for a cartridge game when rentals didn't exist. If the game sucked you played the shit out of it simply because it was expensive as fuck. Most of the games could be beaten in an hour or two as long as you knew were things were.

At least games are honest about their gameplay now. I would prefer a game be 10 hours of actual content instead of 50-60 hours of filler with 10 hours of content like they used to be.

juriko

Now I know I might be an exception, however, I can honestly say that the piracy I may/may not have done was towards media I would not purchase had the means to pirate not been available. Of course there are exceptions where I may/may not have pirated software and found it was spot on quality and went ahead and did a digital purchase of it (sort of a demo of the product).

At any rate, seems like yet another finger pointing contest instead of fixing the issue.

Why do content makers continue to think that piracy isnt in some way their fault? I mean, I have come across some pretty high value software rubbish in my time. For instance, a game that has a 12 hour runtime isnt really worth $50 in my book. If your biz is game development and you want to pull a profit, at least try to give your audience what they are paying for...

Don't get me wrong, people should be paid for their work. "I am not arguing that with you." But be reasonable when attaching a price tag to your "not-so-long" lasting, or lackluster content.

UncleArgyll

I wont say that I don't want to give support/credit where it's due but....YARRRG!!!

Joseph_Shaw_520

That picture totally reminds me of Neopets.

Adex2491

Why are hardware manufacturers expected to help in the first place? Honestly, it's not their job

Pi-face

@urbanturban666: try . . . lesser of the multiple evils

hindsight2020

@Pi-face: Yeah. I like that. Why should they help if if they aren't being fiscually motivated, as the computer programmer further up the page made sure to point out.

Darkenigma75

piracy is not a hardware manufactures issue. would ID care if people were stealing computers from some warehouse and then buying doom2?

andrethejesus

yeah, exactly, who the hell is going to choose hardware which stops you doing the evil things you want to do over hardware which does allow the evil things you want to do. not everyone is a goody 2 shoes like a Mac owner.

WesleyDufie

@tex1ntux:

I agree with this and I will go ahead and expand on it. If you are a software developer creating you need to invest enormous amounts of money to get off the ground. Even if you are an established studio the costs are still high.

Let us say that for 2 years a company is developing a leading AAA title for the PC. Now aside from Rent on the Office space and general utilities they also have to pay for talent to actually create the game. So they hire staff to fill 4 basic categories to design and create the software/game artists, designers, audio engineers, and programmers. Now with the software being created they need Human Resources to manage and pay them, IT, and Marketing to get the word out. Now that you've established that base you already have a massive hole in your "millionaires coffers."

So after all of that and 2-3 years development they release this software (game or not), then the game does not sell as many copies as projected/needed to keep the studio open yet it is widely played and praised. It also happens to be the most widely pirated game. From here the studio must to cut costs to compensate for loss, so they cut jobs. Now if you worked for that studio how would that make you feel about software piracy? Even if you kept your job, some of your co-workers might loose their jobs.

As for this whole conspiracy about Hardware developers secretly not "caring" about piracy is a very loose argument and was probably stated out of frustration.

Enjoy.

TheCounter

I don't have a problem paying for my software. The problem I have is with the conditions that come with the "sale". When I buy something, be it software or anything else, I expect to own it. Would you buy a wrench if you could only loosen one bolt with it? How about a hammer you could only drive one nail with? Or....a car you could go to jail for loaning to your wife? If I own something, I want to do what I damn well please with it. Use it, burn it, loan it to my best friend for a week, swim naked in it. I don't think too many of us would stand for this licensing crap if it came with any other consumer items, but we roll over and put up with it on all our digital purchases. If I "buy", say, UT'04 and install it on my computer, then my son wants to play it while I'm using the main TV (which my computer uses for a monitor), then it's damn well getting cracked to be installed on his computer.

Sorzante