I was under a lot of pressure to be in the Psi Corps.

strider_mt2k

This is pretty stupid on Verizon's part.

People don't want the iPhone because of anything written on any spec sheet or feature list.
Damn sure that some anti-list will have zero effect.

It's like trying to explain to someone the scientific reasons why they shouldn't be in love.

Ever tried THAT? -Good luck if so.

strider_mt2k

PSYOPS. Not Psi ops. Anyway, people will get the iPhone even if it ran on souls of kittens and small children. Verizon can whine all it wants but they had their shot at the beginning, and promptly blew it. But this does not surprise me at all. They have to do something besides release iPhone wannabes.

vadubgeek

Didn't they do this last time too? It just reeks of desperation. When (if) the iPhone comes to Verizon, they will be glad to have it.

The Magnificen7

I don't get the big deal. I'm sure ALOT of average joes ask about the iphone when they go into verizon to get their next phone. They don't really know what it is, and they probably don't know that verizon doesn't carry it.

It seems like common sense would dictate that verizon needs to prep their sales teams to combat the iphone. And stuff like this works. How many of you with iphones have heard from someone not-in-the-know (average joe) who finds out you have an iphone and goes on to tell you about all of it's shortcomings and how "I heard it's having tons of problems!" etc etc.

On top of all that, all four of these points are actually valid, IMO. AT&T's coverage IS pretty poor, especially with 3G, the cost IS more, there ISN'T turn by turn nav OR mms, both of which are important to alot of cellphone owners, and no messages are included, another important feature to alot of customers, which in turn further drives the price up.

As a happy iphone owner, I can point to a dozen other features that I love, but I still don't think there is anything wrong with what verizon did here. In fact, all of those points that they've made I would make to any friend who is considering an iphone, just so they know what they are getting into.

pj_rage

@iPilya: because when Verizon originally printed this flyer, they hadn't officially announced their Visual VM yet. The sales force is always the second-to-last to know about anything; usually about five minutes before the customer, if that early.

kerobaros

As both an iPhone 3G owner, and a former Verizon salesman, I can assure you: this is as legit as it gets. Gave me a great many lulz when it came across my desk.

There was another version of this, with a bullet-point list of the iPhone's 'failings' on the opposite side. Stuff like 'no cut-and-paste' (duh), 'no camera flash' (duh), and 'no turn-by-turn'. Really, the only legitimate gripe they had was the flash; everything else was software.

Sorry, Verizon, should've given in to Apple's demands in the first place..

kerobaros

I am confused... but isn't "Visual VM" aka "Visual Voice Mail" a trademark/copyright/patented thingy from Apple? How can Verizon advertise (if this is real) that they have Visual VM as well?

of course I might be way wrong on the matter. :/

iPilya

what's so bad about that? it's all true.

kevin_o

This is what capitalism is all about.

The iPhone should be challenging Verizon to demand that Samsung and Nokia make better phones. In turn, Apple should keep improving its phone to keep ahead of Nokia and Samsung.

To quote Austin Powers: "Yay Capitalism."

ljj

Verizon should pray Apple/AT&T doesn't make a list of what VERIZON phones WON'T DO. Like watch A Clockwork Orange or Once Upon a Time in the West on a gorgeous screen with brilliant sound, for example.

The iTunes store has like 2,300 Apps now, how many Apps can you use on Verizon phones???

Yeah, AT&T's coverage isn't great, but the Verizon Exec's truly must be dinosaurs to turn down the iPhone. What good is the best network if you have phones no one wants? All of my Verizon friends are switching over.

Bruhaha

I don't understand the attitude, Kit Eaton. You think every company doesn't do this? Do you really think Apple doesn't distribute a similar document to it's "geniuses" listing the faults of the Windows PC?
Verizon just did what any responsible company would do. But all they actually really need to point out is that Verizon's network is better than AT&Ts network. If you want a phone that makes you look cool but which you can't make phone calls on (even though they release a new buggy firmware update every week) go to AT&T. If you want a phone that makes phone calls, go to Verizon.

(And I like my Dare)

Cupajo

I thought it was funny to see the "Gizmodo presented by Verizon" tag line at the top of the webpage and then this article was the first one underneath it. Anybody else catch that?

dman0586

Looks real but then it could have easily have been faked. But it makes sense to me. It's capitalism. And I don't have sympathy for Apple on this one, considering some of the shady stuff they pulled when marketing the iPhone 3G. I own one and I love it - it's as remarkable as people said it was (and I'm not a fanboy and not normally an Apple user). But it sure has some shortcomings. And who cares if it's software not hardware - a feature isn't there until it is. If having TBT, free SMS, video recording, browser Flash support, or copy-paste was a requirement for me I may have opted for one of the alternatives out there. I sure wouldn't have thought "hmm... this is just software so I'll wait." Like I said - I'm not a fanboy.

stryder100

I am no IHater, but its pretty common for a compnay to do a side by side comparison against its strongst competitors and break it down for sales people who often are not as tech smart as their customers. I do these sides by sides all the time and I am not in telecomm. Compare and contrast is a great way to get a point across.

Curves

They should probably focus and getting better phones. How long did the iPhone take to develop? I think my old Motorola was put together from the scrap bin over a long lunch.

eagleapex

*This

takashimiike Ultimate

Damn they're pretty direct thid time around. Kinda reminds me of the biased comparisions between the Instinct and the iPhone, not to mention Sandisk's iSheep stunt.

takashimiike Ultimate

Verizon: good network, crap equipment.

I tried to stick around with Verizon, but the "LG Dare" was the last straw. What a colossal piece of sh*t. Add to that there is not a new smartphone release imminent, and the fact the XV6800 took so long to release, and it was an easy port for me.

Samifumi

They are scared. Very scared.

silomunke

These kind of tactics only work if your Apple. :)

I agree. Verizon seems a little desperate. When is the last time you've seen a wireless carrier go after a specific phone?

yoshi

Poor Verizon.. while I was in line for the 3G, I was surrounded by current / ex Moto Q users switching from Verizon. They just don't get it - "let's churn out 30 touch screen phones because that's what people want!!" How about a decent browser? If iPhone sales ever dip, they should have a "try it for the weekend" program.. I guarantee people who have their mail, browser, etc etc at their fingertips for just a weekend would never go back. (Ps. This is my first Apple product - I'm hardly a fanboy)

brandon

@iPilya: No, Apple does not hold a patent or anything on visual voicemail. They simply licensed the tech...I beleive sprint, along with verizon offers VVM

From-My-Cube

@Cupajo: "You think every company doesn't do this? Do you really think Apple doesn't distribute a similar document to it's "geniuses" listing the faults of the Windows PC?"

Apple does it every day in their Mac vs. PC ads. When Verizon goes *that* low, then I'll say they're behaving poorly.

phoomp

I really don't see anything wrong with this...they're trying to fight the iPhone and just trying to get more business.

It's not like those "myths" are not true...

seamustry

hey iLemmings, forgotten I'm a Mac/I'm a PC, have we?

In your brainwahsed minds it is perfectly OK to slander to opposition but just dont touch the apple of your eyes...

Truth hurts, especially when your little religion is exposed.

asherpat

@Samifumi: Yeah I was gonna say the same thing. They have an awesome network, but they are locked to tight that they are 1-2 years behind the latest phones.

Joseph

@strider_mt2k: I think I just vomited. Did you truly compare deciding whether or not to buy an iPhone to deciding whether or not love exists?

Why wouldn't Verizon do this? The facts turned me away from buying an iPhone. Now I'm rollin on the cheap with my LG Voyager with sick messaging (that's SMS baby! Try doing that with your JesusPhizzle) and saving mad $$ every month that I'd be throwing away on some crappy phone internet.

I have two laptops, two desktops, and only in car rides am I not able to get onto the internet. But I can still text my buddy what the hell is the capital of Bolivia.

Point is you saps will cuddle with your apple gadgets even when the facts show that clearly you are getting screwed. So I guess you are right.

araddatz

While all the iPhone fanboys here talk about Verizon's desperation and how much they suck, some people really do care about price and a cost analysis like this might sway some potential iPhone buyers.

nuke_you

@Samifumi: I agree Verizon has a great net work but there phones suck (the look is good) but the software in them is sluggish and boggy.

Enisity

Is any of what Verizon claims untrue? If not, quit whining.

dleins

I joined the Psi Ops. Then they shipped me out on the Von Braun and everything got pretty crazy.

The_Archon

Yes it's real. And there is nothing unique about this. A similar "selling against" sheet is released for every high profile competitor phone, plan, or feature. And I can guarantee VZW ain't the only ones doing it. Any company with a shred of sense will prep it's sales and customer service employees for questions about the competition. I am just blown away by the people who respond to this like it's a surprise that VZW wants to prevent people from switching for the iphone. I am an Apple fanboy, I would love an iPhone, but I also realize that every one of these companies exists solely to make money. I am not under the delusion that Apple has created this device to bring joy into the hearts of mankind, it is a means to an end. Also, please note that the typical customer walking into a VZW (or any other carrier) store ISN'T a Gizmodo reading, Howard Forums posting, "I want free ringtones" whining, "can't wait to hack this thing" geek. And that's not a insult, because it describe me too. The point is that these are legitimate things a potential customer will ask about. VZW isn't standing on a street corner trying to pry your iphones from your hands, their having this discussion with the soccer mom who walked in and said "Meridith Viera mentioned the iphone, do you have something similar?". Also, as far as this being low or unfair, throughout the article and these comments I see a lot of "duh you have to have service" but no one actually disputing these arguments.

Flame on.

sicadastra

true, but as a marketing effort... they get to attack ATTs mystic pricing, 3G coverage and the iphone in one go. why would they let it pass. especially with all the attention att got this summer with the iphone, getting branded as the nation's fastest 3g carrier and the bold is around the corner.

i am an att customer, but i love competition... FTW

keysereble

People aren't saying it's wrong to do what Verizon is doing.

It just seems like an act of desperation on Verizon's part. They've literally singled out the iPhone because why... it's stealing customers away!?!?

yoshi

if this is desperation, then what would you call the mac vs pc commercials that run every 3 minutes on every network channel?

keysereble

Their smear campaign won't work on me. I'm immune to corporate lies. Of course, as such I never liked the iphone in the first place.

mhlaxp

As a iPhone 3G owner... I dont see anything worng with the flyer... they should print them and scatter them over AT&T stores....

They should have mentioned how buggy the iPhone 3G is.... two major updates under a month of release and still buggy!

lithivm

PS, Giz, what's up with the comments apparently out of order..?

ideaman2020

@vadubgeek: I worked in Psi-ops once.

But no one remembers...

ideaman2020

@dleins:
Yeah I don't know for certain myself but most of their points sound legit. Big deal.

emorphien

I know it's hard to believe for the type of people who read and post on this site, but there ARE people out there who want their phone to do "phone stuff" like send MMS make phone calls, and umm, generally have service? For these people, the iphone might not be the best choice at the moment. A competing company pointing this out in an effort to keep their customers doesn't seem like too big of a deal to me (when it's the truth). If they were fabricating lies for their employees to distribute, the tone of this article would have made alot more sense.

(This coming again from a happy iphone user. My main purpose for my iphone is convenient internet access, applications, and ipod - not making phone calls, which is why I can safely say I'm happy despite the generally poor service and numerous dropped calls I get on AT&T (vs none of that when I had verizon)).

pj_rage

@dleins:

No whining going on here. The only whining going on is by Verizon. Why?

1. iPhone is stealing customers
2. Verizon is the 2nd largest wireless carrier

Regardless of their so called "great network," people are leaving to get the iPhone.

yoshi

"My fave "mythbusting" point has to be that the iPhone 3G "will be twice as fast only where AT&T has 3G coverage!" No shit... like, you can only run trains on train tracks? OK, so it's really a dig at AT&T's 3G coverage, but you get my point."

Sure is a dig at AT&T, a very relivant point too, considering the "NEW" iPhone is only "NEW" because it has 3G, available in 5% of America, sometimes.

Also noticed the "Gizmodo, presented by Verizon" at the top of the page....at least you iGizmodo's are consistent.

Also also agree whole-heartedly with a couple of other commenters mentioning the exact same tactic being used much more openly and publicly by the very company Gizmodo is trying to paint as the victim...

i know this is just a blog, but the bias of every 3rd post on this sight makes my stomach churn.

stupidjerk

Verizon's got one thing right. The iPhone was and still is old technology. It was funny how everyone talked about it like it was brand new when phones have been doing it for awhile. Most do it better and for less money now.

CCCombobreaker

I don't think this will deter anyone that is looking to buy an iPhone. They will already know the shortcomings and either don't care about them or hope that they will be taken care of at a future date.

But I do think it's good for another company to shine a light on some of the issues that could make a break a sale for someone on the fence. It will only cause AT&T to rethink pricing and Apple to rethink it's stance on software (latest was no turn by turn GPS software allowed).

CaptCaveman

It's fun that the article appears now that the homepage of Giz has a nice "Verizon" look all over it...

At least it shows that Gizmodo is independent...

I think that comparison is nice, much less "bashing" the others because you implicitly admit they are "cool and hip". Personally I favour a more subtle approach. One in which you highlight the features that the competitor cannot match, without naming it but making it clear whom you are referring to.
But that's just me. Maybe the uninformed customer, from Verizon's perspective, need to be told clearly which advantages Verizon thinks it's phone have compared to the iPhone.

But this only gives more attention to your competitor, as people talk about whether you conclusions are true or not...

I live outside the US but I can say that Verizon should have their own business and long term strategy, and not focus on one competitor (and manufacturer).

These where my two cents (of Swiss Franc).

pinolo

now that i no longer can access the old analog network,(good, if you spend a lotta time in the sticks). verizon lost one of the network advantages that it used to have. even with the loss, it still has better reception-y goodness than the deathstar. do i wish they had cooler phones? yes, yes i do. when my equipment upgrade comes around, i may get a bold just for fun. if it turns out to be a good phone, for like making calls. cause that's what i use a phone for.

godwhacker

This article is absolutely asinine. Versizon is stupid for equipping their salesmen with some points to attempt to sway someone who might become an iPhone customer?

Bottom line: propaganda is typically false or at least a stretch of the truth. All these points are very true! The iPhone is not the majestic image of perfection that you fan-boys pretend it is. Yes, I would like an iPhone myself, but if it weren't for some of the TRUE points on the above sheet (particularly the data network coverage and cost) I would get one.

Verizon has a superior network and inferior phones, but what good is an internet-enabled phone if you can't connect to the internet at a decent speed consistently? Have some dignity and PLEASE accept the product's shortcomings.

JazzmanSA80

...yet all of their points are true. As a Verizon customer, I hate their choices of phones and their stupid branding of everything, but in my area (mid-Michigan, near the capital) Verizon wins hands down. AT&T basic coverage sucks, and there's no 3G even remotely nearby. If I were to get an iPhone, it'd cost more, and I wouldn't even be able to use it to it's full potential. Whats the point?

edmicman

I don't know about the word propaganda. Those look like FACTS to me. Maybe you should word it, "Verizon calls out AT&T's Propaganda".

bluSCALE4

OMG!!@! Gotta pay that ETF and get myself an LG Dare right away! Those thieving buggers at Apple and AT&T won't have me for long.

Oh yeah, Verizon sucks. Never mind. Time to go play some more Dizzy Bee.

beyondthetech

@sicadastra: Not samifumi, I meant sicadastra, lol... apparently I can't click today.

AllThingsWireless

@sicadastra: You got the right idea, took the words right out of my mouth. I approve this message.

AllThingsWireless

The fact is that even though Verizon has an awesome network, all of their hardware blows. My iPhone loads webpages faster on EDGE than my friend's phone on HSDPA or EVDO. And due to recent evidence from independent testing agencies, it looks like the 3G problems are AT&T's and not Apple's. [www.gp.se]

Also, the price point may be lower on the first gen iPhone, but you can't use discounts on it. The 3G iPhone is a regular subsidized phone, which makes it eligible for a 15% student discount on plans, and a lot of companies get higher discounts. Citibank/Citigroup gets 22%, the armed forces get 19%, Xerox I believe is in the same order. That really makes up for the difference.

All in all, I'm happy to leave Verizon and their crapware for the sleeker iPhone. it may be buggy, sure, but it has NEVER dropped a call for me, and the only complaint I have is video, which is a nonissue if you jailbreak your phone and install Saurik's video recorder. [www.hackthatphone.com]

crackle

the only reason they didnt have the iphone in their line up is because they were unwilling to give apple any control over the device.

the same could be said about a lot of their own phones.

rudez90

I'm not a fanboy. I use Windows PCs. I switched from Verizon to get an iPhone. I don't regret it. Granted, I live in NYC where the 3G coverage is good, but the phone is so much more useful that I am willing to pay more on a per-month basis.

I have no objection to the VZW sheet, that's just capitalism. I think many people give the Mac vs. PC ads a pass because Apple has such a tiny market share in operating systems.

G Maniac

I think Verizon is completely missing the point. They poke holes in AT&T's coverage and the total cost of ownership of the iPhone, but do people really care about that? I doubt it, otherwise the iPhone 3G wouldn't be completely shattering ALL records for handset sales. [www.appleinsider.com]

So it seems what people want is the hardware. And nothing that Verizon currently offers can hold a candle to the iPhone. Just look at the hardware comparisons this very site did between the iPhone and some of the feeble competitors Verizon is throwing into the ring: [gizmodo.com]

I need to point-out that I'm NOT an AT&T/iPhone fanboy. I don't even have one (I'm on T-Mobile with an HTC Dash and have no plans on switching. I'm holding out for Android). I just think these "facts" are completely off-target. It's like Kia releasing an internal memo telling employees they "myths" of owning a BMW. As if the two could really be compared...

OK I'll get off my soapbox

stuntmanmike

These are not tatics, they are facts. Something apple fanboys tend to over look. The only problem I see is that Verizon dosent have a under $30 plan even with less features.
If the 3G had a fully functioning camera/video, a flash and TBT I would be instantly sold. I have a 3 years old Motorlla RIZR with a 2MP, flash, video that I use quite often. When the 2G came out I compared the two and and the iphone came up way short. Then you couldn't mms the crappy pictures it took. fail for me. I've been dying to replace my 4 year old Garmin ique for a smaller GPS with similar features. I though the iphone might fit the bill but no again. Garmin dosn't even have something better. argggg
I will say if they still had the old $20 plan I would probably get the 3G but that is out too. fail for me.

fastm3driver

Verizon has good coverage and i had them for 2 1/2 until the iPhone came out, but they need to STFU cause what they don't disclose here is how they tax you 3x as much a month as everyone else, plus they have a charge for every little thing which is also not good

snitch29

I am a Verizon customer. My contract ends in 30 days. I will be moving to AT&T, and THAT's why they are publishing this sort of thing. Every person I know - tech & non-tech - are buying iPhones and are leaving Verizon to do it...

jbacko

The only thing that can not by added through an a software update is video conference call.. all the others stuffs can be added in a future software update, so Iphone offers an unlimited world of possibilities.

iscangel

A month ago when I was switching from Verizon to AT&T for the iphone 3G, they ran off all these things, plus the bit about what happens if the battery dies or it needs warranty work. They gave me a SUPER hard sell. If anyone is currently out of a contract with Verizon and want to negotiate a free phone and plan details, call them up and say you are thinking about the iphone. They flat out told me they would do ANYTHING to keep me. They did make some great offers... As noted, too bad their phones suck.

jhnsn_j

@dleins: I think about the data plan is not very true. ATT's normal data plan is 30 dollar, it was given a special discount when iPhone came out, now they are just taking that discount away. The new iPhone is cheaper imo.

sega8800

I called Verizon wireless to cancel my plan by saying I am going to get an iPhone, oh boy was I wrong, I was being forcefully feeding a LG Dare down my throat for 30 minutes... I guess that was their plan back then, but now they have this.

sega8800

I cant stand this! you know what they say "they all love the hate who's on top" i just love how apple can step in the game and mess up every phone carrier i mean damn sprint is just like damn tmobile? i mean i havent even heard anything in a long time right now its just AT&T and Verizon. The iPhone is making everyone step their game up and actually give customers what they want. Do you remember before all this was in effect like before any talks of the iPhone? plans were so expensive and everyone was conservative with their minutes now everyone is getting more bang for their buck because carriers are lowering their prices to compete with the iphone and the iphone matched them dont they all feel stupid i mean that damn flyer doesnt mean anything because once someone see exactly the iPhone can do i mean everything they dont care what the cost is and how the service is they want one sorry verizon but taking visual voicemail didnt really sell you any phones and if you really wanna talk about prices how much is your damn internet service vCast? haha thats a joke its not even available in all areas neither is the GPS feature so how the hell do you feel? and please tell me the last time you saw anyone playing a damn 3D game on their voyager? dont worry ill wait cause they just cant do i mean MMS yeah sure if we keep begging we will have it apple can make an app in 5 minutes but thats nothing we can always email and im talking about everything that verizon has (speaking touchscreens) dont tell me they dont take all their ideas from apple i mean even on the dare when you turn the screen it makes a little swish move just like ours verizon will never win ever. Apple is too strong and is slowly taking over the computer game too you wait and see im done on my rant give me a room filled with people that have verizon and a mic i can guarantee that they will all leave the room and buy an iPhone end of story verizon users hate cause they were the best and we kicked their "in" asses the most stingy people i know with minutes i sware "are you in? no im not in: oh then we cant talk. FAGS! haha no more will i worry about that cause all of my friends have iPhones.

DaKidJordan

The iPhone is very popular just like Paris Hilton or Britney Spears but when the time comes, will it be able to lead you in your communications?

You make the call.

We are Verizon and we have approved this ad.

Fox Mulder

@stuntmanmike: Did you just say Kia:BMW as Verizon:ATT&T? What kind of secret Kia do YOU have??

JazzmanSA80

@CCCombobreaker: "Most do it better and for less money now."

Then why is the iPhone outselling them?

twarfel

@yoshi: "Regardless of their so called "great network," people are leaving to get the iPhone."

Exactly. It's not the network. It's the entire experience that counts - hardware and software make the experience. We're closer to the hardware than the software.

The iPhone is closer at hand. So, in short, it seems people are willing to put up with some "inferior network" for a better phone. And that's why the iPhone and AT&T are winning the battle.

twarfel

@araddatz: sounds more like you're non-Apple love kept you from buying the iPhone, not these Verizon "facts."

Verizon is only putting this out because they know they made a mistake and now they're scared of the iPhone and it's impact on their revenue. Say what you want, but Apple is selling 10s of millions of them and AT&T is taking customers away from other carriers.

Who's laughing now?

twarfel

There's nothing wrong with this.

"Data plan" that doesn't include all data, yeah, Verizon either! SMS is a VERY SMALL amount of DATA. But they both insist on charging out the whazoo for it.

James

Desperation is a stinky cologne...

NagChampa

@twarfel: "Apple realizes it's not about a feature list, it's about the experience and a "list of features" is only a part of that. Clearly, the success of the iPhone shows that consumers aren't buying phones merely based on a bulleted list of features."

Enjoy your "experience" when your stuck out in the middle of nowhere with a flat tire and can't make a call to triple A because your iProduct's latest firmware makes it so your PHONE can't make PHONE CALLS. Hell, maybe you can play some dizzy bee while you wait for Cletus and Big Bob to show up and make you squeal like a pig.

Cupajo

I left Verizon for the iPhone 3G and I will say this.
The Verizon network is better than the AT&T network. I get plenty of 3G love in Houston and it's still the case.
But,
The phones suck so bad at Verizon that I couldn't take it anymore. My LG Venus blewd and so did VZ Navigator for me. Everyone who had it was telling me they loved it. I tried it in Houston, Indianapolis and Raleigh and it sucked everywhere. Verizon needs to dump all the LG phones and diversify with Nokia and some others. My wife hates her LG Shine from AT&T too.

Mayor McRib

@beyondthetech: OK, well, enjoy your "dizzy bee". I have a PSP and a DS for mobile gaming and meanwhile, my phone actually makes phone calls.

Cupajo

Verizon is making the same old school mistake - thinking people buy phones based on a feature list and that's the only thing that matters.

Apple realizes it's not about a feature list, it's about the experience and a "list of features" is only a part of that. Clearly, the success of the iPhone shows that consumers aren't buying phones merely based on a bulleted list of features.

Verizon just doesn't get it. Just like Dell. Just like Microsoft.

twarfel

I have some extra columns for the ad above:
                            AT&T iPhone                                 Verizon Dare
Browser                Fast & responsive                          Sucky
Email                    Fast & responsive                          Sucky
Apps                     Fast & responsive                          Sucky
Touchscreen          Fast & responsive                          Sucky
Form                     Sleek                                           Ugly

crackle

@wildness: you did the right thing, if you don't like the Dare (just like the ones out there that are defending it but are trying to convince themselves that it's just as good) don't let them tie you up! did you stay on a month-by-month or did they talk you into another 2 year contract?

crackle

seriously folks.. why is this news?? the flyer is right and they need to prep their sales reps for folks coming in asking about the Iphone.

dasugo

I have Verizon and recently had to replace my phone. The sales person talked me into the LG Dare when I lamented that I could not get an iPhone (no AT&T where I live) and admitted that they had a sheet that compared to two and that the Dare was better.

I didn't actually believe that the Dare was better, but I was hoping that it was good enough. But, alas, it was not. The touch screen performed very poorly and was unresponsive. I hated the Dare and returned it within 24 hours for "just a phone" until the day I can have an iPhone.

wildness

@Cupajo: everyone knows you're a troll, but I'll bite this once. you really don't know what you're talking about, do you. when was the last time you were in the middle of nowhere with an AT&T iphone and had no signal or couldn't make a call? never, that's right. you're taking the blown up stories of iphone FAILS and taking them in as your own experience. those stories get over-reported because people tend to post more comments when they have problems than when they don't.

crackle

Here's the message text that appears in when I try and buy an app using my Verizon phone and click "info".

"Without a price plan that includes an unlimited data feature, you will incur (depending on your plan) airtime charges at applicable overage rates if you exceed your minutes bundle or megabyte("MB") charges of $1.99/MB for downloading the application. Some applications may result in additional charges for sending/receiving data during use."

If Apple were to make an Anti-Verizon sale sheet, I hope they would have enough space to include the full text.

This is why I don't buy games anymore for my Verizon phone. There's also the shady charges for accessing hi-score boards in some games when all I want to do is play the game offline.

M.O.D.O.K.

@M.O.D.O.K.: $2/MB? F***!

crackle

@DaKidJordan: What is with these novel-size posts that drivel on and don't contribute constructively to the thread? Ban please!

My question is, what if Verizon someday in the future carries the iphone? Are they setting themselves up for hypocracy, or are they really never going to carry iphones?

Margatron

Does Verizon's unlimited data included tethering?

commenter2

@yoshi

AT&T is not the largest and certainly not the best carrier. In fact, I would rate AT&T just ever so slightly above Nexcrap. Are you aware of Verizon's buyout of Alltel? The Vz-Alltel combo gives them 9 million more subscribers than AT&T, as if Vodafone being Vz's parent didn't already make them the largest period.

I have an iphone 3G, it is garbage. I won the thing with a year of free service at a corporate event, but it is where it belongs, at home in the box collecting dust. I'll stick with my Blackberry Curve on the Vz network, thank you.

AS a frequent traveler I need connectivity to my office server and data, so here in the US Vz kicks AT&T's a$$. I tried AT&T's wireless aircard for my laptop, so many places it plain did not work, no signal, no connection. I have NEVER had that problem with my Vz aircard. We also travel to Dubai and Riyadh, so my CDMA aircard is a problem over there, but Vodafone hooked me up with a GSM card for my overseas travels that costs nothing more and is billed back through my Vz account. The AT&T card worked in Dubai, but not in Riyadh, so it was worthless to me.

Plain and simple...if you rely on your wireless network for business, make sure it is Verizon.

More on Vz purchase of Alltel:

Apparently tired of being the second-largest U.S. wireless carrier, Verizon Wireless has finalized a deal that will vault it past AT&T and net it millions of new wireless subscribers.

Verizon announced today that it has reached an agreement to purchase the nation's fifth-largest wireless carrier, Alltel Wireless, for a total of $28.1 billion. After adding Alltel's 13 million customers to its ranks, Verizon will have the most subscribers in the United States, with around 80 million.AT&T, which has mostly held the lead for total wireless subscribers since merging with Cingular back in 2004, currently has an estimated 71 million subscribers.

inspectorgadget420

Lack of OBEX push on Bluetooth is my issue...

... all VZW's phones can do is use a headset over Bluetooth and that's it.

Their phones are buggy, slow, and crippled.

And I have a friend who's a Verizon purist ("hey, my phone's so awesome!" "my network's so reliable!" "AT&T sucks! Verizon FTW!") just because... *sigh* her dad works for Verizon.

Dakota Courtois

we're tech buffs,though. They know that tech buffs will look for the hot features whereas the average joe (parents buying phones for kids, first time cell phone customers, seniors, etc) aren't really looking for that stuff. There's still that market of people that don't care about navigation and using twitter or being entertained by their phone.

Can I make calls?

Yes.

Does it store my numbers?

Yes.

Can I send texts with it?

Yes.

Sold.

agentUrge

i like this cheat sheet for verizon fans when WE comment.

Joe Manning

When my T-mobile V3t died and they wanted me to pay full price for a new phone, I just "reminded" them that the new iPhone was awfully tempting. There was no argument, no cajolling, nothing. They transferred me right away to the customer loyalty dept and I got the phone for $20 under contract price, while lowering my amount of minutes (intentionally) and adding the data package.

Of course, I've been with them for 6 years and never had to do that before, so it should've been common sense in the first place, but whatever.

ncc74656m

@JazzmanSA80: Haha nope. See again, people are only seeing the NETWORK comparisons here. I'm talking about hardware.

The handsets that Verizon are pushing to compete with the iPhone are grossly inadequate. They're making big points to play-down the iPhone when they themselves don't have a phone that that remotely compares.

So I was just saying it's like Kia trying to pick on a car company like BMW when their cars aren't even in the same class.

stuntmanmike

Lead, follow or get out of Apple's way, Grandpa Plating (ie: the hater)!

Ladyz

At least when someone pays $200 for a phone with integrated GPS on AT&T, they can actually use it. *Glares at Verizon*

crappedcrusader

All wireless companies are still figuring out the lesson that Apple is teaching (including AT&T)

The form factor as the defining barometer of success in this industry is no longer relevant.

The phone redefined as device combined with a true desktop class OS and loads of software is the new paradigm.

It's the true appeal of the iPhone. It looks nice but isn't a runway model. It feels good in your hand but it isn't the smallest phone out there. Its a black slab with a metal bezel, that's it.

What matters is whats underneath- and will be into the foreseeable future.

Nice try Verizon

barkolounger

they have some great points. In the end, it's all about where the companies spend their money. Verizon decided to spend more money on the networks, and AT&T more on getting the latest phones.

And you see the results.

qrius

I've called up Verizon on a number of occasions requesting support regarding their phones/service, and I am put on hold for what seems like a billion years...(At the least, 1 hour, at max, who knows?.)

AT&T is a more appealing company to me, and that is why I recently switched.

HellTempest

@qrius I don't believe that's exactly true. Verizon has a (relatively) boiler-plate UI and they cripple features in many of the phones. Almost always the GSM counterpart of their CDMA version is vastly better in features and UI. I wouldn't say its a money thing as much as a business decision.

This is my main beef with VZ (of whom I have as my cell provider.

Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

divideby7

Sorry Verizon, your OTA downloads and audible T-B-T directions still didn't keep me from cancelling my Verizon contract and getting a JesusPhone.
You can whine all you want but your hardware is crap!
And my iPhone makes calls like a champ. I have not once lost a call or had any issues with service. Whine, whine, whine!

CultofMac

@Cupajo
I bet your pockets are happy with three different handheld units and the chargers for each, as well as all the games, cartridges, and cases.
Meanwhile I carry one tiny device in my left pocket that does a thousand times more than your DS/PSP/VZW phone combo all ducked taped together.
I can just see you now, your cargo pants bulging with phones, chargers, games, sagging low & revealing your ass crack between the gap of your belt & your fanny pack.
At least you've always got three different things to keep track of, and charge, and manage. Plus, those great UMDs are just a treat to keep track of... and your DS cartridges... and..
Okay I have to stop. My side is aching.

CultofMac

Seems like training for when people came in on iPhone launch day and said "do you carry the iPhone?"

WiZZLa

I have a friend that works there who I recently heard absent-mindedly babbling anti-iPhone propaganda that seemed odd and ill informed to me. Now I know where it came from.

seamusMoon

Did Verizon lie? Unbelievably, no. I thought "Propaganda" is when one side lies about another.

These "myths" are precisely why I am not getting an iPhone. Although I love Apple products (having 4 Macs and 3 iPods between my wife and I), despite the sales success, personally I think the iPhone one of Apple's worst products.

Now, if they just sold this unlocked to any carrier and open to third party developers from the beginning, I would have been in line for both those releases regardless of what was missing in hardware.

rcorrino

I have a Blackberry on the Verizon network. The network is not "so called" better, it IS better. Period. On every single metric in every single market, it is #1. Just check Consumer Reports, the ultimate independent authority.

Aside from a touchscreen that you have to hen-peck at to type a message and storage over 16GB, my Blackberry on a far superior network, can do everything an iPhone does. In some cases it does it better too!

I can also use my phone in the DC Metro, underground, Internet and all. Good luck doing that with your Jesusphone... last time I checked, you people couldn't get reception above ground and in the open, let alone 3G!

If the iPhone does come to Verizon, I will consider it. It will be on a real network and hopefully the bug will be worked out by then. Hey, how's your push mail coming by the way?

JoeWoah

Don't people realize that all company's issue such sheets to their call center employees to combat competing devices. AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon, US Celular, etc... all issue sheets to prep their agents how to combat customer interest in devices not offered by their services. The same holds true in the high speed internet and TV spaces. This is absolutely no big deal. There are even similar agent deskdrops for AT&T comparing iPhones to Blackberry and Windows Mobile phones.

djtaz360

It's only propaganda if it's not true. Everything here is true. What's the big effin' deal? Do you expect Verizon to not know about the weaknesses in its competitors plans or to highlight them to its sales force? Jeez.

OsiUmenyiora

@Cupajo: "Do you really think Apple doesn't distribute a similar document to it's "geniuses" listing the faults of the Windows PC?"

I used to work Apple retail, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that anybody that can't see all of the obvious flaws of whatever M$ is calling their new GUI for DOS this week wouldn't be a Genius.

Oh yeah, and your DS and PSP don't get OTA updates to all of those games you fill your pockets with.

Ginsu

The stuff they write may be true but hey, it's the JesusPhone!!!

Th3Chos3n0n3

I dumped Verizon long ago for the iPhone. My coverage is fine with AT&T. So bu-bye Verizon, more and more people I know have dumped you because they want the iPhone. Lots are just waiting for their contract to be over....

Ken_Darrow

The problem I have with this is that one over Verizon's claims isn't true - that you can only download music via WiFi or sync. Fact is, I can use AOL Radio, Pandora, Last FM, or a host of other services to download and listen to music on the iphone - a seemingly infinite variety of music, and it's all free (or at least, it all works when I'm connected via 3g). We can argue about the meaning of the word "download" versus "streaming" music - and regardless of the definition, Verizon is trying to mislead people - but the checklist shows "OTA (over the air) music" as being unavailable on the iPhone, and that's just a lie. I can listen to just about anything over the air on my 3G iphone, and not have to deal with the Verizon music service. I switched from Verizon after about 6 years as a customer because I hated having brain-dead phones that were hard to use. I hope that Verizon brings a good phone to market to compete with the iPhone; even though I'm an Apple stockholder, I think that competition helps to raise the level of everyone's game.

EzraGiggles

I live in northern NH, and I have a 2G iPhone. This is the best computer I have ever owned. I have excellent coverage that works better than any of my previous VZ Motorola crippled crap. I first jailbroke this phone the day I got it, and it was more trivial than any seem edit I was forced to do before. This phone minimizes all of the clutter I used to carry with me. I plug it into my car, have my tunes and google maps. The triangulation on gmaps is very accurate in many areas. I took it to Maine on vacation and it made an embarassment of my GPS, which has to be hooked to a computer to be updated. Bleh. I use push mail (some think you can't) and IMAP to my google apps account could not have been easier. I can also sync my cal with Nemesis so billing for what I have done on the road could not be easier until you see a QuickBooks port to this. Another great thing is that everything is not branded on here... That used to piss me off about VZ. Just to get a pic off my phone was so painful. The camera is second to none. I video recorded my children at a baseball game doing silly stuff, and emailed it to my mother. Wow. As a geek, I love the fact I can ssh into my phone, tether it *at no additional cost to me*, and have a fully functional computer in my pocket. I put Yahtzee on it, NES and GBA emulators, and I have real 3D games too. Don't even get me started about the accelerometor (sp?). Shortcomings are lack of flash and Java, which really irk me sometimes.

AdaWadoo

The ironic thing is that Verizon was offered the iPhone, but decided against taking the offer. Apple didn't just expect the normal deal, they wanted a percentage of the monthly contract as well. Verizon is better off without the iPhone.

RosaliaRoebuck

The problem I have with most of these comparison-type dealies, this one in particular, is Verizon is misleading people about what services they offer and for what price. For instance: Verizon Wireless's Premium Plans include unlimited messaging with premium 3G data services with audible T-B-T directions and OTA downloads! Audible T-B-T directions provided by VZ Nav, which is an extra 10$ per month. What if you don't like VZ Nav? Too bad, asshole. Your GPS device is locked out for anything else. Unlimited messaging!!! Yeah, unlimited *in network* messaging. AT&T's unlimited messaging means just that - any network. Not just your VZW buddies.

SadiquaQuincy

This article is written like Verizon is the only company that does this.

EVERYONE does this. Dell has a team of people doing the same thing against apple, hp, lenovo.

All-State does the same against Geico.

Holy cow, it's easier to sell something when you know about you competitors?!?! Holy cow, they give their employees talking points?!?! Holy cow, businesses will tell you where and how their products are better than their competitors?!?! Holy cow, this article is B.S. The editor should remove it, as they should hate to have something that proves they have no idea how the tech business world works, when they are supposedly covering it.

wastedskill

I'm an iPhone user and like it, but I find the tone of this post (and some of the comments) to reek a little too much like fanboy-ism. Why is it surprising that Verizon would want to compete against the iPhone? Also don't some of these myth-busts look like complaints I've seen on other sites? What would we say if they had a complaint about the lack of copy and paste? How about the fact applications can only be installed (generally speaking) via the app store? What about all the bugs?

BlytheJillion

It seems odd to me that Verizon is assaulted to creating to propaganda to counter the biggest propaganda-machine out there: Apple.

Heck, this isn't even against the iPhone -- it's against AT&T. Yet Apple has everyone so brainwashed that the slightest comment against the service provider causes all the fanboys to rise and defend...even though was nothing said against the iPhone.

And as for all the 'AT&T works fine for me' or 'I don't need great service if my phone is awesome!' folks...great for you. That's what competition is for.

jacksplat

How can anyone bust VZW's chops for a simple competitive analysis? In fact, given how much media coverage there was with headlines "new iPhone half the price", I think VZW would be foolish for not telling potential customers the real facts. I too hope this will put pressure on AT&T and Apple to get their capabilities in line with VZW. Disclaimer: I hate both ATT & VZW. I'm also an iPhone owner.

VittoreBabasaur

Personally, I think Verizon's points are rather mild mannered and fair minded. Half of it is just highlighting pricing facts that AT&T was trying to cover with tricky billing, and the other half is highlighting the obvious for the average customer who needs the obvious pointed out for them. No real vicious or "underhanded" attacks.

Null42

@AdaWadoo: uh, how did you do video on an iphone when it doesn't have a video feature?

qrius