This was cool, but getting out of a contract doesn't need to have so many steps. A few years ago, my dad was able to get me out of my two year T-Mobile contract (it had only been about two months) through sheer persistence. He just kept asking to speak with people higher up until he finally got to somebody that mattered (and actually knew what they were talking about) and then explained to them just how bad their service was in my area. After a little while, contract was terminated minus the $200 fee. No confusing steps, no reading fine print, just willpower and good skills with talking to people.

Katoejoe

My 2 cents: Don't waste a lot of time arguing and wrangling. Just contact the Better Business Bureau. You can fill out a form on their website listing your complaints and your provider will be able to respond. When they do, let them know that the only thing that will make you happy is to be released from your contract immediately with no ETF. it worked great for myself and with a friend. We were both under contract with Sprint. They released us and allowed us to port our numbers on the same day.

LesBrown

Wow, this guys is very smart. You can be my lawyer any day. He makes reading terms of contracts and fine print sound like fun!

Namius

While I appreciate guides such as this, the use of video completely turns me off. Why use video when simple *text* would be far more efficient and effective when actually going through the process?

Video tutorials really ought to be used when detailed visuals are more useful than word descriptions.

When it's just some guy talking to you for 9 minutes... it's annoying.

Aristeia

@Aristeia: Amen. Besides, a person who's going to be using this advice would do far better if they had the counter-arguments all printed out to refer to. You can't very well tell the company rep "Hold on while I fast forward to get to the answer I need."

infmom

1. Yes, all the video when text can work is stupid, but hey, we're smarter people and most of the putz-like organisms that inhabit our level of evolution are ADD riddled jackholes who can't be bothered to read ANYthing when they could watch it instead.

2. This video was awesome in information. Now, just be a cool dude, make a pamphlet, website or printable pdf.

3. Anybody else wonder if this is a viral video paid for or produced by AT&T to help people get out of a contract if THAT's the reason they might not be getting an Iphone? Just the way he drops "or that new Iphone!" and then offers ANYONE who emails him a discount? That could be thousands after this video hits the web, so just being some blogger probably wouldn't get you that many discounts....

Makes you wonder.

sicknick

@Aristeia:

Thank you so much. I find the same stupidity all over the internet these days. I mean easy access to video is nice now that we have the bandwidth but seriously it isn't always the best way to communicate something.

I'm on CNN or MSNBC and I find an interesting headline only to realize that I need to sit through some stupid 8 minute video to get the same information I could have read in 3 minutes. It's ridiculous. If you want to have a video for every thing then at least include a transcript.

The average reading level in the US is already piss poor, so why make it worse.

sxr7171

this guy rules

two_ocelots

Explaining the laws of economics to the CSR helps as well.

The last straw when I weaseled out of my T-Mobile contract last month was when I explained to the CSR that, yes, I had just called up to cancel using the message rate increase, yes, I had already called 4 times that day, and yes, I have unlimited nights and weekends. That means unlimited calls to TMobile.

At $7 a call, they relented.

Sometimes, you have to be a douchebag. Try to take solace in the knowledge that you will never meet the CSR in real-life and, at the end of the day, you are only a small part of the stress in the CSR's life.

OMG! Ponies!

Lol, this adds nothing to diminish the stereotype of those of the Jewish persuasion.

bdonohue

Please stop telling people that ETF's are now illegal in California.

It was a TRIAL court decision referring only to Sprint's PREVIOUS practices. It could one day mean that ETF's are illegal, but so far, and at least until appeals are over, this does not have any practical meaning.

randalotto

@sicknick: Regarding the discount thing: just about every carrier has a referral plan where you and the person you refer get $25 (or whatever) off your bills. Also, the iPhone is the hot property right now, and one of the most likely reasons people might be looking to get out of a contract.

Since people might not know about the referral deal, he drops it like it's something he specifically can do for them, when really anyone else with a contract on your carrier can be credited as the referral (shady Sprint workers at the store I worked at used to credit themselves as referrals for walk-ins who did not mention the credit.)

So it's not viral, he's not an AT&T shill, he just analyzed the market for an extra way to make a couple bucks. Since it helps the person being referred, too, it's not like he's hurting anyone.

PipeRifle

@sxr7171: Videos aren't making the people in the USA stupid ... its the other way around - stupid people require videos because they can't read. And the USA is ... well ... stupid, on average.

Rodime

Thank you yarmulke man!

blacksamurai87

I blame it all on those rap videos i see. God i hate the hip hop generation..

aeroworks

@Aristeia:

Yeah, while I too agree that it's really helpful, I completely disagree with your other point. I mean, there are countless other texts on the web that detail similar approaches to defeating the contract. Most of them are long and are rather "unfriendly", so you can see how a video of a real guy detailing the process might be better. Plus, I could see how it would be annoying if he had music playing and used some wacky, amateur transitions between cuts, but he made it really professional. I mean if what he said was in a text format it would be a few orders of magnitude less effective!

robotaks

Does anyone else find it stupid that you have to go through hoops to essentially have one half of a contract's party actually agree to it. Isn't that the point of contracts in the first place...no hoops, just agreement. How many hoops would they go through if you changed your end of the deal and just stopped paying? None, they'd just shut you off and report to the credit bureau.

CubFan81

@randalotto: Yeah, that might make 35 million people a bit hot under the collar if they figure out they can't ALL jump ship for no reason whenever they want to...

Heh.

philbert

@CubFan81: In any agreement, the person holding the hoop is the one who makes the order to jump. And they hate having the tables turned.

PipeRifle

This video was imformative. Neato. To all you people bashing the use of video in this format...did you miss Youtube? It's been around for a while now...I mean. Sure you can argue that just having a list of steps is easier to follow but people do _NOT_ read. Demanding that people become more literate doesn't work very well in America either, we're all about doing less work overall, so. There ya go.

Also, the fact that this fine gentleman is Jewish is...is it bad to laugh?

nachobel

finally Jewish people have cracked their way into Law!!

This is great for all those verizon people that want to iPhone. Great article!

4shizz

Way to screw Verizon out of their phone subsidies you eagerly bought into when you signed the contract in the first place..

Aturayd

I just used CelltradeUSA to takeover someone else's contract. I think it cost them $20 to post their profile on the service, but that's more than worth it not to have to fight with a csr.

XanderCrews

@bdonohue: are you jewish? unless your jewish your just being racist

jewsrock

this is why I'm glad I'm in the military. I have used the "Solders and Sailors Act" to get out of THREE different contracts From THREE different carriers. without proof of going over seas (but i actually did all three time) and the last carrier (AT&T) unlocked my blackberry phone for me only after being with them for a couple of months. I'm not trying to be a recruiter, but saying things "cough" might help too.

wardrip

@Aristeia: I disagree with your point and have made a video response. In it I have detailed the ways in which you are wrong and explained in depth why this is such.

+ Watch video

I hope this information has caused you to reconsider your position on this matter.

mhlaxp

Ely,

Interesting video though there are some things that you might want to consider...

First and foremost, I am uncertain if you are able to give legal advice (contract and statutory interpretation).

Interpreting that Verizon contract can be tricky, especially when you emphasize the "conditions" that you read. Next, it is important to know if these are conditions precedent, conditions subsequent, or conditions concurrent. (Knowing which type will determine what party is in breach thus establishing their rights, responsibilities and remedies).

Next, it is important to remember that cell phone contracts are contracts of "adhesion"- there is no real bargaining power between the parties. As such, there are several legal claims that an individual can make.

The first, and least effective is that there is no mutuality of obligation between the carrier (verizon) and the subscriber. Thus if an individual wants to cancel the K, he is supposed to pay the ETF, but if the carrier wants to cancel early, are they obligated to pay the subscriber a fee? (Probably not). If this is the case, this may be a theory to show that the contract is somewhat unconscionable (substantive and procedurally).

Additionally, ETF's can be interpreted as being penalty clauses. Courts are reluctant to enforce a liqudated damages clause if it is seen as a penalty unless the damages were difficult to calculate from the time of contracting, and the fee's are reasonable. In the given circumstance, if the cell phone providers wanted to write an enforceable liquidated damages fee into their contracts, they would just have to come up with a simple formula. (Note: The effects of this might actually hurt the consumer more.)

You loosely refer to the term "materially alter." Traditionally, that term has been looked at by courts to determine that if the prices were (at the time of contracting) what they are now, would this party have entered into the agreement (subjective), or, would a reasonable party still have entered into this agreement (objective). The modern trend is to follow the objective test. Increasing the rates by 1 or 2 cents is not likely to "materially alter" or burden the party in light of how this term has been interpreted by the courts. And while verizon can't tell you "what does and does not materially alter"- the courts can.

My advice, if the contract says that using the service after getting a written notice, is a waiver of your right to cancel, stop using the service after you get your written notice. It's that easy. NO ETF, NO PROBLEM.

Remember, you cannot have you cake and eat it too.

coreyfriedman

<<<

4shizz

Gemorahkop!!

compuboy

@OMG! Ponies!: There's no need to be a douchebag and just because you won't see that person does not give you the right to act rotten to another being. I've always respected everyone I've worked with in retail and have seen nothing but good results, being rude is in no way necessary. One can be firm but still be kind.

SgtToastie

@coreyfriedman: Thanks for the recitation of first year contracts law. That said, he's not talking about taking this case to court, is he? He's talking about dealing with a csr at a mobile phone company. His arguments worked (for him) and he's now enjoying his iPhone which sounds a lot like having his cake and eating it too, as you put it.

XanderCrews

I know ETFs are a pain, but you do get the price of your hardware subsidized. . .

suprememilo

@XanderCrews: aww, that was kinda snarky. I liked the review of Contracts I and II. Seriously, I was almost inspired to bust out my casebook and start citing cases and statutes, hehe.

@mhlaxp: HAHAHAHAHA..... no. (but seriously, that was pretty hilarious.)

@robotaks: I dunno if I can agree that just because someone argues in text it's somehow less effective than stating it out loud. Maybe i'm biased because of law school (yesh! bringing it up twice in one post!), but i've found writing to be more persuasive when done correctly.

But more than that, the ability to refer to his advice immediately while on your call, would be extremely helpful.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad video. He was very professional, but I just would've appreciated having his points made in an easily readable format.

@sxr7171: Dude, i totally agree re: news videos. I hate when I see an interesting headline and then have to sit and watch some talking head. I just wanna read my news, thankyaverymuch. There's a reason i check websites for news instead of watching it on tv :P

Aristeia

@XanderCrews:

Ely is talking about getting out of a contract and it is my opinion that he is not suited to give this advice.

My point is that he knowingly entered into a contract with a cellphone company- then he tries to wiggle out of it because the iphone came out, and all of a sudden the ETF is a problem. We'll he should either:

a: Honor the contract
b: Pay the fee.

You thanked me for my recitation of first year contracts, but for some reason you didn't contradict it. You just thought you would be haughty and prove too that you knew something about contract law. So, with that said- Thank you for alluding to me that you too have been through first year contracts.

coreyfriedman

@SgtToastie: I never start off mean. But there are the CSRs who employ the "shout you down" method of debate.

OMG! Ponies!

@coreyfriedman:

My point is that he knowingly entered into a contract with a cellphone company- then he tries to wiggle out of it because the iphone came out, and all of a sudden the ETF is a problem. Well he should either:

a: Honor the contract
b: Pay the fee.

You forgot Option C: Cancel the contract and attempt to negotiate a waiver of the ETF

I think your problem with the notion of breaking a contract stems from the word "honor". Why should he pay the ETF if he can negotiate a waiver of it? Is your reason merely a variant of "Because he agreed to it and he should keep his word"?

Divorce morality from it. It's not a matter of personal honor. It is no longer in his interest to continue his contractual relationship. Verizon has presented him with an opportunity to terminate the contractual relationship in a manner such that if the matter resulted in litigation, Ely would have a colorable defense to paying the ETF which would result in litigation costs in excess of the fee, thus making litigation a poor option.

As to the "knowingly entered into a contract" aspect of what you said, these terms are non-negotiable and are present in every other cell phone contract. They are presented on a "take it or leave it" basis. It's not about "knowingly" entering into the contract; it's about voluntarily assenting to the terms. That is what makes it a contract of adhesion.

The way you seem to be looking at it is that the two parties are entering into the contract at arm's length. This is the basic B2B standard. Applying that standard, remember, companies breach contracts with one another all of the time when it is no longer in their interest to continue them.

Also, let's not forget that not only did Verizon voluntarily enter into the contract, it drafted the terms. As such, the terms are construed against it. As Ely pointed out, Verizon admits that it sets the charge to offset the federal taxes, bringing it into the scope of charges which may be "materially adverse". There is too much focus on Ely's behavior and not enough on Verizon. It stated conditions under which Ely may opt out. The conditions presented themselves.

Ely's reasons for opting out of the contract are moot. What if another carrier had announced a plan that fit his needs better? What if his job had just given him a BlackBerry? What if a family member had offered to pay his service on a family plan? What if he had lost his job and was cutting back on bills? What if he just didn't like Verizon anymore? Would this be acceptable to you?

The "he got a subsidized phone out of the deal so he has to pay the ETF" argument is also faulty. Yes, he got a subsidized phone. But how is the ETF related to that? That is the issue that the court took with Sprint in the (overhyped) case involving the disallowance of the ETF. Sprint had failed to prove that the ETF was liquidated damages. Is the ETF liquidated damages for a subsidized phone? If so, cell phone companies are required to prove it.

The other problem with the "he got a subsidized phone" argument comes from the echo chamber effect of blogs. How many people do you really think read this site or Crastinate - which I had never heard of before this posting? How many people do you think hunt down tips and tricks like this?

There are only about two dozen voices on this post. There are about 200 million cell phone users in the US. Even cutting that number in half to generously account for business and family plans, that's still 100 million. Before employing a Chicken Little argument, one needs to ask "how many people go through the steps to try to get a waiver of the ETF based on a rate change?" Is the rate 1% (1 million)? .1% (100,000)? .01% (10,000)?

There is nothing immoral or dishonorable about canceling a cell phone contract. It is a contract for services with a large multinational corporation with a history of anti-competitive behavior.

OMG! Ponies!

@OMG! Ponies!: Ah, okay. I have been lucky enough to have everyone I've worked with return my kindness instead of trying to take advantage of it.

SgtToastie

Been there, done that. My story with Sprint.

I agree about the use of the BBB: I used the BBB and had all my ETF refunded. In addition, even if I did go to court, a) the cellphone companies rarely appear in small claims court, because it's more cost effective for them to just default, and b) penalty clauses in contracts, in most states, must be related to the actual damage the company suffered. Rarely are early termination fees related to actual damages to the cellphone companies.

shelleyp

@SgtToastie: I am a CSR and I actually enjoy a good anger match. It's the really sad stories and legitimate complaints that ruin my day. If you're a douche about things it's that much easier for me to stonewall you.

@coreyfriedman:
@OMG! Ponies!:
You guys are the reason I'm taking the LSAT.

amaduli

@@shelleyp:
I used the "who is the regulatory agency for the state of *** that I can file a complaint with?" That essentially ended the conversation. My ETF was waived and 2 months of my bill were waived.
Granted, this took me 3 months. The 2 months refund were because I was still paying and not using the service. It took me about a dozen calls and complaints to Verizon.

mkrygeri

I just went on google maps and cross referenced the Tmobile coverage area with a map of California. I found a city, Eureka, where their coverage is all roaming. Next I called a Tmobile rep. and explained that I was unpacking/frustrated and that I had just moved. I also explained that the coverage was aweful and I wanted to get out of my ETF ($200). He looked up the coverage in Eureka and said that it was no problem to waive the ETF as long as I faxed in a lease agreement or some form of verification. Now I am looking online for a sample lease agreement to fax in :) Social engineering FTW.

infiniteloop

tell them you're moving overseas. at least in MD, you can do that.

dmbfan3333

@infiniteloop: yeah, pretty sure that's fraud.

Oh, i know. tell him you found killer bees in your phone.

Aristeia

@coreyfriedman: 1. "You thanked me for my recitation of first year contracts, but for some reason you didn't contradict it." I didn't contradict it because the validity of the the law is IRRELEVANT. As I said in my prior post, this video is not intended to be used as instruction for filing a civil complaint. It is for the specific purpose dealing with a CSR, who doesn't give a damn about contracts of adhesion or any of the other finer points that you lifted right out of your notes.
2. "You just thought you would be haughty and prove too that you knew something about contract law." The difference is that you don't see me scolding some kid for giving "legal advice" on the internet and then giving a completely irrelevant lecture on contract law. There's nothing worse than an insufferable law student who learns a little bit about the way things work and then tries to interject that knowledge in every sitation. Well, I guess what's worse is when that same law student insinuates that a non lawyer shouldn't be able to use the terms of a contract to the advantage of himself and others.

XanderCrews

You can also just buy a one way ticket to a foreign country and say you're leaving the united states permanently and bring a letter with a copy of your visa, proof of address, and copy of your ticket. They'll cancel your contract like that and you dont have to go through all of that apparently entertaining hassle.
Well thats what i was told by a sprint rep.

SneakerFiend

@OMG! Ponies!:

good post.

-LeiTxo

LeiTxo

Woah, he nearly looks as Jewish as I do (and is clearly just as adamant about slick deals). I figured I'd have to search comments for 'Jew' just to see if Giz readers were paying attention and/or are antisemitic.

But all in all, a good guide. I'm getting scared that Sprint's going to get rid of my beloved SERO and make it a lot easier than this to cancel my contract.

hebrewbacon

GUESS WHAT GIZMODO READERS?? I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA!! AREN'T YOU JEALOUS NOW!!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OHHHHH God THANKS ARNOLD, YOU JUST MADE LIFE WAY BETTER

I'LL THINK OF YOU SUCKERS ------- OR NOT!! !!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

sorry...........Ummmmmmm.....GOSH....this always, ......you know..................happens. YA, I've got to remember to contain my evil side next time. PC version: I am very grateful that my state chose to free me from my contract, and I deeply feel for any individuals that are not as fortunate as I am. :D theeeeerree, all better

vicsells

this guy is amazing.

Cheers,
Suresh garre

Live Mobiles([www.livemobiles.co.uk])

sureshgarre

@Aristeia: Ummm...for all those that bitched about this being in video form, Ely does type out the steps on his personal blog page. So..for those really interested I found it in like three seconds (or less). So stop complaining and look around first...

blorins

Dharma initiative ? After 2 minutes I expected a bunny rabit to fall behind his shoulders.

AnnabelleHuman

There is a very easy way to cancel any cell phone plan without termination, though it's not for the faint of heart (nor for anyone with a scrap of humanity.)

When I bought my iphone, I simply called verizon and informed them that due to the large tumor in my brain, my doctors had suggested that I no longer use a cell phone.

Boy were they nice.... and efficient
(I know I'm evil, blame apple)

hashbang

I know I may have come up a bit differently than many, but the only way I can see it is that getting someone else to pay for your phone in return for you paying for their service, then reneging on that agreement to use their service is called "stealing", but you guys do as you please.

JanetAnubis

just amazed at the people above who are posting saying he is trying to worm his way out of the contract.

The contract says very plainly that if they change rates...which they do all the time...you can terminate with no fee.

How is this worming or not honoring the contract?

If it didnt say this then it would be but since it has that provision then it is not.

And yes while he may want out of his contract he is able to get out due to the terms he agreed to and the provider agreed to. Ask my legal representation about this over a late lunch here in Thailand with my legal team from Baker&McKenzie. We got a good chuckle out of it, because in the end Ely is correct.

But thanks for coming in here and telling everybody to not exercise their legal rights under their contracts.

The fact he wants an iphone is irrelevant to the matter.

The fact is Verizon changed his rate and he can exercise the clause. That is exactly why Verizon let him out of his contract.

Obviously some here have vested interests in cell companies.

Wowwzers

I did it about a year ago with Cingular / AT&T. I used the Text Messaging rates as my reason to leave. Although, I never did send a text message on the service, they permitted me to go. Some people said no, others said yes. It's all getting the right person, being calm, explaining why you want to leave, and they totally get it. They are human beings too, and a lot of them are way cooler than their job allows them to be. So if you guys need any tips, be casual, and work it up. If you start like hey bud how's your day, and what not, they start to like you, treat them nicely, and then lay it on them. Something along the lines of so I recently noticed that the Federal Universal Tax has been raised... and it's really putting me in a financial crunch, can we discuss this? I'm considering cancellation as other options I have present are economically friendly to me at this time. Good luck all you adventurists out there, and if you are just trying to get out of the contract, clearly state that you just want to end the contract and that you do not want to cancel the service yet.

Mantraa

It's one of those times i'm damn happy to live in Denmark, here your contract can maxium last for 6 months, and its usually reasonable prices, except for the iPhone contract, which is expensive as hell compared to what you get and what we're used to in Denmark.

treelz

Wasn't so easy trying to tell Verizon I switched to ATT, then they asked why and I dared say 'iPhone'. Forget it after that, they wouldn't even let me terminate service!

chriskeefe

its effing hilarious that this webpage showed verizon's sponsorship logo at the top.

crackle

My friend did a similar thing with Fido in Canada. They changed his plan without notifying him and he called them to ask why.

Basically what it boiled down to was that he requested their copy of his contract but they had lost it. In Canada, if a party in a contract fails to provide their copy when requested, the contract essentially doesn't exist. So they terminated his plan without a service charge.

Of course, this was after a million calls to Fido and to the Better Business Bureau.

Margatron

I got lucky that there's poor reception in my area. After many calls and "it's not an adverse effect because you refused your credit" they finally disconnected me when they realized I lived in a poor reception area.

By the way, don't tell this story, they don't react well to it: "if a thief steals $10 from my pocket, he's a criminal. if he gives me back the money when I call the cops, he's still a criminal"

crackle

@blorins: normally you'd just say "RTFA".

So, after like 10 calls to Verizon, they wouldn't budge on the last argument of "we'll give you a credit to your account, and if you don't accept it that's your fault." they won't budge, and won't disconnect you. even contacting the legal team is a waste of time. :-(

crackle

@OMG! Ponies!:

"You forgot Option C: Cancel the contract and attempt to negotiate a waiver of the ETF"
No, I didn't forget option C. Canceling the contract = Breaching. How do you negotiate a waiver? I think you forgot the pre-existing duty rule. But, I guess you are citing the "Cancel and contract and attempt to negotiate a waiver rule"- Maybe you should return your contracts book if that is what it reiterated to you.

"I think your problem with the notion of breaking a contract stems from the word "honor". Why should he pay the ETF if he can negotiate a waiver of it? Is your reason merely a variant of "Because he agreed to it and he should keep his word"?"
Well, not only that- he should keep is word because we do not want to sterilize the purpose of a contract. I mean, really... What good is a contract if there are no obligations, or there is no penalty for not living up to those obligations?

Divorce morality from it. It's not a matter of personal honor. It is no longer in his interest to continue his contractual relationship. Verizon has presented him with an opportunity to terminate the contractual relationship in a manner such that if the matter resulted in litigation, Ely would have a colorable defense to paying the ETF which would result in litigation costs in excess of the fee, thus making litigation a poor option.
No longer in his interest to continue his contractual relationship? Give me a break. He knew what he was getting into when he signed the contract. If you are thinking of Posner's theory of the efficient breach- Even Posner would aver that Mr. Ely should pay damages.

"As to the "knowingly entered into a contract" aspect of what you said, these terms are non-negotiable and are present in every other cell phone contract. They are presented on a "take it or leave it" basis. It's not about "knowingly" entering into the contract; it's about voluntarily assenting to the terms. That is what makes it a contract of adhesion."
Right, I get the point that they are 'boiler plater' terms- but then again no one forced Mr. Ely into getting a cell phone. Further, there are several other alternatives to getting a cellphone with a contract. Courts normally frown on a contract of adhesion when it is for something of necessity, not a luxury. I guess you may have missed that in the Hornbook.

Also, let's not forget that not only did Verizon voluntarily enter into the contract, it drafted the terms. As such, the terms are construed against it. As Ely pointed out, Verizon admits that it sets the charge to offset the federal taxes, bringing it into the scope of charges which may be "materially adverse". There is too much focus on Ely's behavior and not enough on Verizon. It stated conditions under which Ely may opt out. The conditions presented themselves. I agree with this statement.

Ely's reasons for opting out of the contract are moot. What if another carrier had announced a plan that fit his needs better? What if his job had just given him a BlackBerry? What if a family member had offered to pay his service on a family plan? What if he had lost his job and was cutting back on bills? What if he just didn't like Verizon anymore? Would this be acceptable to you? All of those scenarios present different remedies- you might be confusing readers by gaping them together. Be it that I am not in the mood to teach contracts right now- Please check whatever textbook you are reading from, and look up the Chapters on Impossibility and Impracticability, as well as Divisible Contracts.

The rest of your "subsidized phone argument" is a mere strawman. It's fallacious in that it addresses something that you brought up- not me.

But, it does seem as though you are posting your comments to try and prove something? I am uncertain of what that is. Please advise.

@amaduli:
Good luck with your LSAT's

@XanderCrews:
1. So then why "thank me"- Maybe you were just being pedantic and trying to prove something. If this was a mere informational on the how to-s of social engineering, then it should have been prefaced with that.
2. No, what he said is WRONG. There is no debating that. So, I then go an point that out to him. Then, isn't it ironic that you are guilty of the same exact thing you are accusing me of? WAY TO GO!!!!

coreyfriedman

@coreyfriedman: I would say a large part of the population considers their cell phone to be more of a necessity than a luxury.

crackle