Networks
AT&T's Internal Plans To Fix Their Network
Posted by Brian Lam at 3:00 AM on August 26, 2008
AT&T was calling me to set up an interview with their CTO, but all I could hear was garbled noise on my AT&T iPhone. "I can't really hear you!" I shouted, as if volume would clear the channel. It's always been like this, in my home in San Francisco.
While the howls of iPhone 3G reception issues get louder and louder, I've always wondered if it was the network's fault, as some Swedish scientists and journalists have recently suggested. Maybe it's just new AT&T customers making the bulk of the noise. From my experience, the phone isn't blameless, but the network is a major part of the issue.
Continuing the call on an land line, I said I'd be glad to meet with John Donovan. To be perfectly honest, on a certain level, I didn't really want to ask questions. All I wanted to do was get the guy in front of me and berate him for his network's voice quality and reception, relatively slow 3G rollout and coverage. AT&T's been last in all those metrics for years (according to JD Powers) and they were still raking in the bucks as the nation's largest carrier. But after meeting him, I'm certain John Donovan has the intent the Old AT&T didn't. And a detailed plan on how to make "More Bars in More Places" less like a joke and more like a promise. In fact, Donovan surprised me when he said, "We want to be number one in all those metrics" — That's a lot of big talk when I can't even make a call from my own house right now. Here's the outline of the plan, which Donovan provided later — as well as some straight talk from an AT&T engineer on whether or not the plans will work.
•Cell site splitting. We're deploying about 1,500 new cell sites this year. This enhances service quality in two ways - we're expanding the geographic reach of the network, and in some places, we're adding cell sites in existing territory to improve coverage and capacity.
•We monitor the usage for both data and voice on each and every cell site sector, combine that with our forecasts and customer feedback to target specific locations where we need to augment capacity via further cell splits.
•TDMA turndown. Earlier this year we turned down our TDMA/Analog networks. That allowed us to free up key spectrum to redeploy into the UMTS/HSPA network. Not only does that give us the opportunity to increase overall capacity on UMTS/HSPA, it enables us to deploy UMTS/HSPA at 850 Mhz (vs 1900 Mhz). This 850 spectrum provides optimum in-building coverage. We're in the midst of turning up this spectrum on the UMTS-HSPA network across the country.
•Short measurement intervals. We're deploying capabilities to measure network performance in much shorter intervals. This capability will be especially important to maximise service quality during major events. For example, during a Final Four or World Series game, traffic on the network will spike during time outs, or when a great play, bad call, or something else big happens. In normal circumstances, we might measure traffic and performance a few times per hour, but in these situations, we'll monitor every few minutes to ensure maximum performance during the spikes that occur in real time.
•Wireless backhaul. We're leveraging our U-verse and metro Ethernet fibre deployments to enhance wireless backhaul connections in many areas. We're moving more and more of our wireless backhaul onto the 40 Gbps AT&T backbone network. So ... the investments we're making to maximise service quality on the wired side also benefit our wireless customers.
•Drive testing. AT&T technicians and other third-party vendors will drive-test its network nearly 30 million miles in the next year to improve the network's coverage and quality.
•Hundreds of technicians from third-party testing companies, infrastructure vendors and AT&T technicians use specially designed vehicles to travel throughout the country and test the signal strength and coverage of AT&T's ALLOVER Network.
•Along with drive-testing its own network, AT&T drive-tests competitors' networks to ensure that its coverage and quality are equal to or better than other companies providing service in the area.
•The drive-test results help to prioritise where the company invests in new cell sites and equipment that enhances the network quality and coverage.
While a great deal of the document above is fairly obvious, there are many roadblocks to executing the plan and improving the network. Donovan's interview revealed some details of the plan above, but some engineers within the ranks gave me a great deal of insight, too.
A large part of the problem, Donovan said, is that people would complain, and yet, by all of their measurements, the user should have had full bars in the place and at the time they reported the poor coverage. Hence the need for better tools and more frequent sampling, instead of several times per hour, they'd do it every few minutes during congested periods. A great deal of that testing is done using network tools, but drive testing will help, and AT&T also tests their competitors' networks for comparison.
Adding more towers in a place is not simple. It's a local affair, requiring navigation of local building codes and politics. Somewhere like SF makes that hard, but the hilly terrain wouldn't help the situation either. And while 30 million miles of driving sounds like a good idea, the engineers I talked to insisted that drive testing is really just a final check once you've got enough towers in place. "Save the money on drive testing and build sites or improve sites we already have...[by] buying t-1s to increase capacity." He also commented that adding 1500 towers alone isn't enough to solve the problem.
Turning down analogue networks sounds like a winning strategy, as long as you don't mind grandma's call quality being degraded. The activation of the 850MHz band will also enable better indoor reception, which is going to be critical in expanding data/voice quality as user counts go up. Donovan also said that they'd shift their allocation of bandwidth towards data from voice, which makes sense. Analogue aside, the EDGE legacy is taking up resources on the towers which are shared with 3G. As one of the engineers said, having UMTS and GSM use the same antennas causes "interference and performance. It's like putting a splitter on a garden hose the flow is still there but volume is cut in half on each side." (This is where Verizon and Sprint have an advantage.)
And as Wired has realised, 3G range being more limited, AT&T can't actually blanket a city by using the same tower locations as their EDGE counterparts. But my engineer friend also said, "We went from 2.5g experts to 3g novices." They don't have the training or experience to find or fix issues as well as they do on EDGE networks. Many in the field are also lacking the expensive test gear for UMTS to find bad channels and interference.
Why didn't AT&T make these investments in the first place, while Starbucks and T-Mobile worked on Wi-Fi hotspots and Sprint/Verizon went 3G ahead of the curve? Money.
And while AT&T's financially conservative strategies in the past have limited expansion, there's no reason they couldn't also do so in the future. I asked Donovan if caution was the overriding strategy behind waiting to match Sprint's initial 3G rollout, he replied, "I'd like to say we're deliberate. " He added that initially meeting the voice quality and data rates of Sprint's 3G network would have been both technically and financially impossible, despite the customer benefit. (One only needs to look at Sprint's financial weakness now to appreciate the wisdom of his point.) He also pointed out that by waiting, they got to leapfrog the limitations of Sprint's EVDO networks, referring to the extended data rates their network will eventually run at, at a better value. "The most astute thing you can do is be as late as possible and as fast as possible. Because it's going to cost you more if you do it too early, and if you do it too late, you don't get the features you want."
When AT&T's LTE networks do make the jump past Sprint, from 1.7Mbit to 7Mbit to 11Mbit to 20Mbit, their bottle neck will move to their backend infrastructure. To counteract that, they'll depend on their extensive wired and fibre backhauls the company has. But, in areas where the telco is owned by AT&T, AT&T wireless still has to buy lines from themselves and the budget isn't there. According to at least one engineer, "We still operate at the field as two completely different companies. While at the top they see "ONE" we see many."
Will AT&T succeed at having the best call quality, coverage and reception? Who knows. But at least here, we have their plans on record and can hold them to the goal. After all, they're the biggest carrier — they've got a responsibility to all of us to make their network the best, no matter what the cost.
I just want to be able to hear the other person on the end of the line.

Comments (AU Comments · US Comments)
There are currently no AU comments for this post.
mildretard
Posted 3:50 AM 26/8/08
Yep, sticking with the ol' Touch here myself. Although if AT&T and Apple manage to wrangle their feces, me and my little enterprise will switch over. Until there's reliable coverage - and I don't care who's at fault - my money's on Verizon.
mildretard
praevalesco
Posted 3:50 AM 26/8/08
I suggest they get their sh*t straightened around before the iphone contract expires.
praevalesco
foofighter28
Posted 3:49 AM 26/8/08
you'd think they've been 3G for a few years now they would at least know how to optimize a network.
My buddies over there said that as soon as the merger was complete the company's philosophy went from orange to traditional BLUE ATT conservative. He told me 6 months ago that they're just letting things go and not be ontop of it as they use to when it was Orange (Cingular)
They're still popular because of the lemming principle; joe and sally are on ATT we should get on there too even though their network sucks.
foofighter28
reddingofish
Posted 3:47 AM 26/8/08
I was a drive tester once. There were two of us per car. One with a laptop and a phone. The other drove. We would drive around according to a map on the laptop and use the status function on the phone to get the signal and bit rate on all three nodes of the tower. It paid $12 and hour and lasted for three nights then I was no longer a Cingular employee but now I know where all the AT&T towers are around my town.
reddingofish
OMG! Ponies!
Posted 3:47 AM 26/8/08
@PopsG: And Gizmodo also said that Clone Wars is a piece of drek. Yet there's the ad for Clone Wars.
Just saying.
OMG! Ponies!
OMG! Ponies!
Posted 3:45 AM 26/8/08
@TheSonOfKrypton: I'm dead certain that my iPod charger does not charge my iPhone 3G. It gives me a lovely little message saying that the two are not compatible.
OMG! Ponies!
PopsG
Posted 3:45 AM 26/8/08
Front page logo:
Gizmodo, presented by Verizon
Just saying!
PopsG
Noobs-R-Us
Posted 3:45 AM 26/8/08
"The most astute thing you can do is be as late as possible and as fast as possible. Because it's going to cost you more if you do it too early, and if you do it too late, you don't get the features you want."
As Keynes said, "In the long run, we're all dead." So I guess that's what AT&T is hoping for, that we all die so that they'll never have to make the upgrade.
Noobs-R-Us
sharkync
Posted 3:45 AM 26/8/08
With less than a week old iphone 3G, I'm starting to have more than buyer's remorse.
sharkync
miocid31
Posted 3:44 AM 26/8/08
As much as I love my iPhone, i'm beginning to regret my decision of dropping Verizon..sniff::sniff::
miocid31
lpranal
Posted 3:43 AM 26/8/08
Can you please maybe spare 1 or 2 for green bay? We lost brett... 3g would be a great consolation prize!
disclaimer: I don't actually care much about brett or the packers... but I switched from verizon which has had EVDO up here for almost 2 years now, and my iphone gets spoiled on 3g when I'm out of town.
lpranal
pj_rage
Posted 3:42 AM 26/8/08
@remps: +1. AT&T's coverage is terrible compared to Verizon for every area I've been in. But, it's still worth it for the iphone.
Imagine if verizon had gotten the iphone. They would probably be dominating by now.
I do have to laugh when I see the AT&T "more bars in more places" commercials. They are usually in another country when they are getting "more bars." Great, but what about coverage in the US, where you are based? Then you see Verizon's commercials where they are going to the woods and to "real" places in the US and getting coverage. It really makes me wonder why AT&T is so worried about overseas performance when their US performance obviously needs a lot of work. Do most AT&T customers travel overseas or something?
pj_rage
canyoncarver
Posted 3:40 AM 26/8/08
What's funny about this is how many times it's evident that AT&T just doesn't get it.
I especially like how they admit that their tools sampling a few times every hour isn't quite up to snuff.
I regularly have to explain to network engineers how it is that they might be doing 15 minute sample intervals and THINK that their network is healthy, when it's really a pile of puke for running services such as Voice over IP.
Don't let the slick interview fool you. AT&T is still the same old moronic behemoth they've always been.
canyoncarver
Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish
Posted 3:37 AM 26/8/08
@OMG! Ponies!: Um, yeah that sucks and seriously makes me reconsider yet again. I liked being able to use the same little white brick for everything, and having to have another kinda sucks. I have a cheap third-party charger at work for my iPod and it works great for all of them it seems, and would've been really convenient.
Yep, touch for me (no sex jokes!)
Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish
TheSonOfKrypton
Posted 3:34 AM 26/8/08
@Sean Robertson: Hahahahahahhaha. That is hilarious....Who the FUCK thought of that? That's great...Really, just really intelligent. By SOP, do you mean Sons of Patriots?
TheSonOfKrypton
accordionhero
Posted 3:34 AM 26/8/08
@TheSonOfKrypton: intelligently enough, the 1st gen iphone is chargeable by either the firewire or usb charger (at least using the wall cube) but the 2nd gen iphone only allows usb. wtf.
accordionhero
s5
Posted 3:33 AM 26/8/08
Did he give a timeframe? All of this is sounding very grand and long term. Are 3G customers going to want to stick around for the duration of what sounds like a 2 year project?
s5
Sean Robertson
Posted 3:32 AM 26/8/08
@TheSonOfKrypton: He said 3G. The second gen iPhones will not charge from a charger not specifically made for them. Douchetastic doesn't even begin to describe that, but Apple-SOP certainly does.
Sean Robertson
Sean Robertson
Posted 3:31 AM 26/8/08
Hmmm, seems sticking with my 2G iPhone on T-Mobile wasn't a bad idea at all... ;-)
Sean Robertson
nitefire77
Posted 3:30 AM 26/8/08
and while att iss busy playing catchup, Verizons network will be expanding even still, and will soon start deploying the 4g network for 2010 and beyond
nitefire77
Daarken
Posted 3:29 AM 26/8/08
Personally, the 3G coverage issues is also an AT&T problem.
Locally they rolled out 3G about a month before the iPhone3G was released.
The call quality then was horrible when connected to the 3G network, along with the dropped calls, and "network busy" connection errors.
However with the 3G the 'Network Busy' message is not there, but you do get the "Call Failed" in its place.
So blame Apple/Steve Jobs/Whoever, but make sure you put in some AT&T to be fair.
Daarken
TheSonOfKrypton
Posted 3:27 AM 26/8/08
@OMG! Ponies!: "and that not letting me juice up an iPhone 3G with an iPod charger is completely douchetastic."
Something's wrong there dude...You sure about that? My 1st gen iPhone charges fine using my iPod charger (for clarification, my USB iPod charger...)
TheSonOfKrypton
remps
Posted 3:25 AM 26/8/08
@davebg5: agreed
remps
remps
Posted 3:24 AM 26/8/08
I've joked about it many times, but in all seriousness, I only moved to AT&T because of the iPhone. AT&T service is terrible compared to Verizon, and I hope all of the above is true. I guess time will tell.
remps
OMG! Ponies!
Posted 3:24 AM 26/8/08
My testing last week revealed that Cape Cod has better 3G reception than Manhattan.
It also revealed that the iPhone freakin' devours electricity - even when the phone is allegedly off - and that not letting me juice up an iPhone 3G with an iPod charger is completely douchetastic.
OMG! Ponies!
Elvisisdead
Posted 3:23 AM 26/8/08
Yeah, that's the tough part re:Sprint and timeliness. Do you build it and wait for them to come, or let them come in droves and then promise you're building it. As we've seen with the iPhone 3g, option 2 doesn't work. At least give it to Sprint that they went balls out to build the network. Better to build it and have capacity then have an army of unhappy people locked into service commitments? Wait....
Elvisisdead
axiomatic
Posted 3:23 AM 26/8/08
...all this while violating our privacy too. Stay busy AT&T.
axiomatic
CaptMoose
Posted 3:22 AM 26/8/08
I'm a little perplexed as to how they got to be the nation's most popular wireless provider with such a poor network. And even more perplexing is how they CONTINUE to be popular if their service is really that unsatisfactory.
CaptMoose
davebg5
Posted 3:19 AM 26/8/08
"The activation of the 850MHz band will also enable better indoor reception, which is going to be critical in expanding data/voice quality as user counts go up."
They had better b/c my iPhone 3G functions more like a fraking SAT phone than a cell phone.
davebg5
texizboy
Posted 4:15 AM 26/8/08
This just goes to prove my point about how things work these days in our economy. "Free Markets" my a**. AT&T has achieved their number one status through brute force, not providing a better service. They turn record profits and turn it all over to investors. As is the case with more and more companies. But the customer is asked to suffer through crappy service cause they've rolled everything in to one. "ONE BILL ONE BILL" you hear it everywhere. When will we hold these companies accountable and show our displeasure with the fact that they don't really return a level of service expected for our output, but a level of returns for investors. Wake up America.
texizboy
dea136
Posted 4:15 AM 26/8/08
This exec's business plan looks like smoke and mirrors. I'm so glad I cancelled my Verizon contact (and incurred fee's) for this :( Love my iPhone but HATE AT&T
dea136
fastm3driver
Posted 4:11 AM 26/8/08
@CaptMoose: IT's easy, shiney toys. Mr. LAM admits he has a connection so bad he can't even use his phone but insists on using the iphone. sad.
Personally I have been using att/cingular for a long time with no problems. I've lived and traveled a lot all over the USA and Europe over the last 10 years with no real problems.
fastm3driver
BasicBlack
Posted 4:05 AM 26/8/08
@bjarnia: "I can't remember a SINGLE dropped call, ever, in Iceland"
Wow. And they manage that with just the one cell tower? (kidding!)
BasicBlack
Noobs-R-Us
Posted 4:03 AM 26/8/08
@praevalesco: What's this about a mongrel? I don't think that kind of talk is permitted here!
Noobs-R-Us
Tim Faulkner
Posted 4:02 AM 26/8/08
You were surprised an exec said his company wants to be the best?
Tim Faulkner
bjarnia
Posted 4:01 AM 26/8/08
I have lived in Iceland my whole life. I have done business with pretty much of the cell phone providers we have there, but until recently I haven't had anything to compare them to.
I moved to Los Angeles 2 weeks ago, just got an iPhone 3G from AT&T. Let me tell you this... I would pay double (btw I already pay AT&T tripple what I pay for similar package in Iceland) for service that worked like the service in Iceland.
Dropped calls are more like the norm rather than the exception (I can't remember a SINGLE dropped call, ever, in Iceland) and voice quality is at times beyond horrible.
bjarnia
praevalesco
Posted 3:56 AM 26/8/08
@davebg5: I recently switched from Verizon to Sprint and got on their SERO plan before they murdered it. I love Gizmodo as it provides me an opportunity to laugh at those slow on the uptake who moved over to Cingular for the iphone. My Mogul does everything your iphone does, doesn't drop calls and costs 35 bucks a month.
praevalesco
BasicBlack
Posted 3:54 AM 26/8/08
@reddingofish: "I was a drive tester once. There were two of us per car. One with a laptop and a phone. The other drove."
Is it me, or did that read like the beginning of a Dashiell Hammett novel?
BasicBlack
Ken_Darrow
Posted 3:53 AM 26/8/08
Yep. It's AT&T thats causing us grief. "More Bars In Imaginary Places"
Ken_Darrow
davebg5
Posted 3:53 AM 26/8/08
@remps: I am in the exact same boat. I was on Verizon for about 8 years and I honestly cannot remember the last time that I dropped a call with them. I would never have left them if not for the iPhone 3G.
Thus far, my iPhone 3G on AT&T has dropped calls at a rate of about 40% (a review of my first bill with AT&T showed that 85 out of 217 minutes used were related to dropped calls and upon exchanging my 1st iPhone 3G at the Apple store the Genius showed me that his diagnostic tools were saying that I had dropped 40% of my calls since the previous restore.) Oh...and lest anyone think that it's just a 3G problem...I turn off the 3G at home b/c, despite what AT&T's coverage map indicates, I get no 3G coverage there. I still have frequent dropped calls (or calls that don't drop, but no sound on the call for minutes at a time, so you THINK the call has dropped) on Edge.
davebg5
kaizoku80
Posted 4:41 AM 26/8/08
Hmmm...all those plans and one of the main things that would help improve call quality, and thus make customers happy, dropping the HR codec and going with FR, wasn't mentioned...
kaizoku80
dcdttu
Posted 4:33 AM 26/8/08
Ok, you 'charging your iPhone' people:
1. The 3G iPhone will only charge on a data cable with USB charging functionality, not Firewire. Many chargers for your car are made with Firewire charging capability, therefore won't work.
2. All data/audio cables that aren't designed for an iPhone will work to play music as far as I know, but you might get 2G GSM interference if the phone is running on a 850 2G EDGE network and is 'talking' to the network when you're using it to play music.
On Topic, My phone works great in San Antonio, but absolutely sucks in Austin, whereas non-Apple 3G phones seem to always have a 3G signal... You tell me what that means... I'd say that the iPhone 3G's bad signal reception (for at least some phones, including mine) in combination with Austin's crummy 3G (especially South Austin) make for 3G about 20% of the time city-wide, with MANY dropped calls.
dcdttu
m4ximusprim3
Posted 4:32 AM 26/8/08
@BasicBlack: It's still a 1 tower to 5 phone ratio, which is pretty good.
m4ximusprim3
TechnoElf
Posted 4:31 AM 26/8/08
Problem is I think a lot of people go for AT&T just because they have fancy GSM phones or you can import a fancy phone from Europe and pop in a SIM card which you can't do on Verizon. Besides phone selection though AT&T is very poor and I think people have just gotten used to it and don't want to deal with the phone company.
TechnoElf
davebg5
Posted 4:31 AM 26/8/08
@texizboy: Too true. I used to be very libertarian, but the simple fact is that Capitalism is broken. Corporations these days are just too powerful. They are bigger and have more monetary might than entire nations. Their political cronies let them get away with breaking the law, stiffling competition and enacting entirely anti-consumer policies in their TOS.
Frankly, the only way that corporations are ever held accountable these days is via class action lawsuits, which don't really help the impacted customers as much as they do the lawyers. Unfortunatly, it's pretty much the only significant weapon that we have in our arsenal (Posting on message boards like this one? That's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.)
For now, I will continue to call and complain to AT&T. I will continue to demand service credits (I have received one bill and thus far have gotten $55 in service credits from AT&T.) As long as I don't get a 3G signal at home (despite AT&T's coverage maps and what their technicians say) and as long as such an absurdly high rate of my calls continue to be dropped, I refuse to pay for full service. Furthermore, I am giving Apple until the next big firmware update in September. If that doesn't resolve a good portion of my issues, I will be contacting AMEX to dispute my charge at the Apple store for my iPhone and activation.
I encourage anyone else impacted by this clusterfock to do the same. Even if our chargebacks are denied, imagine the problems that having to respond to thouands of identical chargeback applications will cause. Apple may be able to "no comment" their paying customers, but I'd like to see them try that shit with their partners in the credit card industry.
davebg5
mdoublej
Posted 4:29 AM 26/8/08
@TheSonOfKrypton: I have a cheap ass transmitter/car usb charger (not ipod specific) that I tried yesterday and charges a 3G iphone.
mdoublej
MichelleDatsun
Posted 4:24 AM 26/8/08
I'll believe it when I see it, that's all I can say. Lately the market seems to be saturated with CEO's saying how wonderful things are going to be. Nudge, nudge, Steve.
MichelleDatsun
UofITom
Posted 4:21 AM 26/8/08
Oh, and how about consolidating regions...hasn't that been on the docket for 5 years or so?
UofITom
UofITom
Posted 4:21 AM 26/8/08
I wanna be number one in my metrics too...then I take a long lunch.
UofITom
SF_iris
Posted 4:18 AM 26/8/08
My cell coverage is marginally stronger with 3G, but my AT&T wireless phones have never worked well enough for me to use my cell at home, despite their coverage maps saying I ought to have three-four bars (EDGE or 3G, I'm lucky if I have half a bar inside). It's rather embarrassing as a professional to have to tell my clients that I'll call them back on my land line. They always ask what crappy carrier I have, and I tell them.
SF_iris
Brian Lam
Posted 5:06 AM 26/8/08
@Tim Faulkner: No, but surprised they had a plan. Plus, ATT historically hasn't given a fuck. Consider the JD power ratings and the number of subscribers. They have no incentive. Either way, you're right to not be surprised -- that's why the engineer's comments are in there.
Brian Lam
Brdf
Posted 5:05 AM 26/8/08
I second the request for a time-frame. And also other numbers: when will most of us who see 1 bar at home, say, start seeing 2+ bars? When will these 1500 towers go up? My very first incoming call on the iPhone was dropped, and I'll be damned if I'm going to wait out my two-year contract without costing AT&T and Apple a bundle in support salaries if this doesn't improve.
Brdf
dfl
Posted 5:04 AM 26/8/08
When I complained to Apple that 3g is useless here in SF, the genius blamed AT&T and offered to replace my iPhone (new one is not any better).
When I asked AT&T if I could expect useful 3g reception anytime soon, rep said that I should just use EDGE. So I asked if I could pay only for EDGE. The rep laughed. Seriously, he laughed. Then I laughed too. The whole iPhone 3g situation is a joke.
But I when I see Apple advertising that the 3g is twice as fast, I still get angry.
dfl
billc124
Posted 4:55 AM 26/8/08
Reading about all these issues with the iPhone 3G and ATT's crappy network makes me glad I bought a used first gen iPhone, unlocked it and am running it on T-Mobile's network. I may only be at Edge speeds but my call quality is great in the areas I use it in. I guess many 3G people are running at Edge speeds too right now, so I am not too bad off. I hate ATT and will never give them a dime of my money again, so I will happily stick with T-Mobile and when they get 3G in my area, which should be soon, I will do the same thing with the iPhone 3G, once they figure out how to unlock it that is.
billc124
purple-pillows
Posted 4:52 AM 26/8/08
@OMG! Ponies!: cape cod has amazing 3G coverage these days which is surprising because used to barely have edge.
So if AT&T is all about making their network the best why did they let themselves get outbid on the 700 mhz auction, i know they got that other 'B spectrum' stuff but verizon is still going to have a better network.
purple-pillows
ripfire
Posted 4:51 AM 26/8/08
@bjarnia: Welcome to L.A. where the city is over 10x the population size of the whole country of Iceland (and in a much smaller area of space). You would need to pay more than just triple if you want to get over the wireless traffic going through the smog.. i mean air here.
ripfire
whootowl
Posted 4:50 AM 26/8/08
I love the depiction of AT&T as aligned with the "Dark Side". Obi-Wan Kenobi didn't need any fancy network to communicate with Luke, not even from beyond the mortal coil.
whootowl
yoshi
Posted 4:46 AM 26/8/08
@absconded:
Hmmm... read what you just typed. Sounds like an Apple iPhone issue to me.
yoshi
bspence
Posted 4:44 AM 26/8/08
I just really hope that this means I'll be able to talk on my cell phone while riding the metro in DC, like I used to be able to do when I was with Verizon. That's my number one complaint.
bspence
yoshi
Posted 4:44 AM 26/8/08
@CaptMoose:
Maybe because it's not as poor you "claim."
The 3G problem is an Apple iPhone issue which is why they are so quiet about it. Do you honestly believe Apple would sit back and allow this to happen to the iPhone if it wasn't?
There are plenty of other 3G phones at AT&T not having this issue and the issue is wide spread all over the world.
yoshi
absconded
Posted 4:44 AM 26/8/08
This weekend I went to a ballgame at AT&T Park in San Francisco. You'd think the company would make sure the park that bears its name has decent coverage, but twice when I went to use my phone for something, it said "No Service."
absconded
Convergent_Punk
Posted 5:25 AM 26/8/08
Excellent interview/article/post. I believe what this guy is saying today, but that does not mean it will get through tomorrow. This company is huge and their initiatives take 5 years or more. They do not work with small, cutting edge players, because they do not want to take on risk. Instead they partner with big slow companies like the old NEPs and IBM/MSFT. This won't be fast is what I am really saying. It is nice to see that people are finally recognizing that the U-verse investment was also a major network infrastructure upgrade and not just re-packaged DSL. Once U-verse really gets traction it will being interesting to see where all of these wireless upgrades go. Everything at AT&T is relative to who is making money. Right now that is Wireless, but if Wireline starts making cash off U-verse, then there will be a shakeup and these priorities may go away.
Convergent_Punk
praevalesco
Posted 5:23 AM 26/8/08
@Noobs-R-Us: Fair enough, I'll keep my time browser loading, clear calls, and TomTom GPS to myself. :(
praevalesco
phor11
Posted 5:21 AM 26/8/08
It must be a matter of location, because here AT&T is far and away the best cell provider as far as coverage is concerned. They even coordinated with our university staff to make sure that reception worked in elevators, basements, etc...
phor11
viper1080
Posted 5:52 AM 26/8/08
I laughed yesterday in columbus when i saw my iphone 3g only had two bars of sevice while passing a more bars in more places billboard....
viper1080
Capt. Mazda Sisko
Posted 5:48 AM 26/8/08
These are not the cell phone towers you are looking for
Capt. Mazda Sisko
robo
Posted 5:43 AM 26/8/08
@texizboy: Wahhhh. I'll be the first to agree that we don't have a free market in this country due to all the ridiculous regulations and corporate lobbying that goes on, but I think the problem is that even though everyone is complaining about AT&T's 3G network and coverage, no one is returning their phone and dropping the service! It must not be that bad then.
You want the market to work, you have to do your part on the demand side.
davebg5 thinks he can just call and complain and ask for service credit. Why not return the phone and tell them you are unhappy with their service and are not interested until it approves?
robo
seamustry
Posted 5:35 AM 26/8/08
Why is it that other countries, such as India, have much cheaper calling than USA? Granted they don't have 3G yet, but it's still at least 10 times cheaper there.
seamustry
saronian
Posted 5:33 AM 26/8/08
I'm in an area with strong AT&T coverage. The tower is a few blocks away and signal strength is excellent. But my iPhone can barely hang on to a 3G connection.
If AT&T can't even provide an accurate cell/3G coverage map, how can they find areas with poor service performance?
Take note - We are paying for advertised coverage now and want it now. Future improvements are irrelevant when the bill arrives each month.
saronian
otis123
Posted 6:21 AM 26/8/08
I can't vouch for 3g since my iPhone actually has some brushed aluminum on it, but edge is terrible and I live in a huge suburb outside Seattle. I wish I could make calls over wifi.
otis123
Gessho
Posted 6:19 AM 26/8/08
@bjarnia: Welcome to America my friend...get used to the bad service and infrastructure, we're a Potemkin Village.
Gessho
davebg5
Posted 6:16 AM 26/8/08
@Noobs-R-Us: Capitalism is thriving...in a communist country.
LOL!!! Sorry...I just find that rather amusing.
davebg5
shockwaver
Posted 6:09 AM 26/8/08
@viper1080: Amusing. Around atlanta, the only time I had more then 2 bars was when I was under an AT&T wireless billboard. I think they have picocell transmitters in them! (as an aside, my brother who has t-mobile only gets good service near a t-mobile advertisement.)
shockwaver
Noobs-R-Us
Posted 6:07 AM 26/8/08
@davebg5: "..but the simple fact is that Capitalism is broken."
Sir, I beg to differ. Look how well it's doing in China!
Noobs-R-Us
davebg5
Posted 6:05 AM 26/8/08
@robo: You know, you're right, I should probably have returned the iPhone 3G and dumped AT&T right off of the bat. Unfortunately, I didn't. Before I made such a rash move, I wanted to put the iPhone 3G through it's paces, which took some time. Then, I let AT&T and Apple lead me around by the nose until I was past my 30 day return window. I wasted precious weeks trying to figure out if it was a problem with my specific hardware (by exchanging SIM cards and iPhones) and waiting for the results of my trouble tickets with AT&T technicians to check on the network in my area.
So, now I'm left with the unappetizing option of calling AT&T every month when I get a bill and going through my call history to demonstrate how I drop approximately 40% of my calls (in NYC/Northern NJ) and demand credits for the lack of service. Plus, unless Apple actually addresses the issues with the device, I will try to dispute my charge at the Apple store, as I fully believe that Apple shares in the blame for my iPhone 3G woes.
davebg5
sxr7171
Posted 6:24 AM 26/8/08
"The budget isn't there" Are they fucking kidding me? I pay $100+ a month for this service and "the budget isn't there"? The have more customers than any other carrier (okay not since the VZV-Alltel deal) and they charge as much as VZV and they want to tell me the budget isn't there?
While I admire the truth in saying "we are 3G novices" all I can say is: WTF? This is 2008 motherfuckers! The rest of the world could have made that statement 5 fucking years ago. Have you no shame in making that statement now? Late to start, late to deploy and now you want to tell me that not only are you cocksmokers late, but also retards.
What if when my bill comes I said I am a "novice" at paying my bill or that "the budget isn't there"?
Stupid fucks are so behind the curve it's amazing.
sxr7171
airgauss
Posted 7:49 AM 26/8/08
@praevalesco: ditto on the move to a wicked awesome Sprint SERO plan (from att, no less). palm centro + unlimited data & more mins than i can use for $35/mo = maximum deliciousness. queue the laughing loudest track...
airgauss
Hickeroar
Posted 8:03 AM 26/8/08
@CaptMoose:
They were decent sized already and then Cingular bought them out....which at the time was the largest provider....thus making them really big. Then AT&T bought them back.
Hickeroar
growler
Posted 8:40 AM 26/8/08
@OMG! Ponies!:
Not true! My girlfriend's brand-new 3g iPhone needed charging, and she'd forgotten her cable at work. Hooked it up to my computer with my iPod cable and it charged just fine.
growler
luun
Posted 8:08 AM 26/8/08
I'm back with T-Mobile after nearly 3 months of horrible AT&T reception problems (1st gen iPhone).
I'm sure this is a rarity but it bears mentioning; My reception at home (I live in a major metropolitan area) was so bad that AT&T let me out of my contract without an early termination fee. I had to argue with AT&T customer service reps for 90 minutes and escalate through reps, supervisors and eventually to a manager who was understanding enough to let me out of my contract.
I've unlocked my phone and am using it now on T-Mobile where (not surprisingly) I am now getting great reception.
luun
luun
Posted 7:17 AM 26/8/08
I was with AT&T using the 1st gen iPhone for a little under 3 months. My reception was so bad at home that I was actually able to get AT&T to let me out of my contract and waive the early termination fee. It took 90 minutes of talking to and escalating through various customer service reps, supervisors and managers before they gave up and let me out, but it did work.
luun
jmo7
Posted 7:01 AM 26/8/08
I will never forget when I was in Upstate NY, driving past a billboard that said, "Upstate NY is AT&T Country," ironically, I didn't have a single damn bar. That pretty much summarizes my experience with AT&T, they say plenty of shit about coverage, but in general, their coverage sucks.
jmo7
kcroley
Posted 6:40 AM 26/8/08
AT&T may be working hard to fix the problem, but they're aiming in the wrong direction when it comes to voice quality. At Ditech Networks, where I work, we've talked for more than a year with AT&T about making it easier for callers to understand each other. Despite the fact that they now know how to fix the problem, they have opted to focus on data, or 3G applications, and not voice. Because of that, we all suffer, and interviews like this need to revert to a landline. Frankly, we could have solved this issue for AT&T last year--and it can't be solved with more cell sites or bandwidth--but the business has made a decision that it's really not all that important to insure voice quality.
kcroley
jeffindayton
Posted 4:20 AM 26/8/08
funny i thought that a phone was for making calls not trying to impress others.
i'll stick with verizon thanks, it may not be the flashiest phone but it does everyting i want and it does it very well 99.9% of the time.
jeffindayton
Phish007
Posted 3:58 AM 26/8/08
I gotta say, I left verizon for att and the iphone. ATT coverage is awful here in NJ. Especially when Im commuting on the train from NYC back to NJ and vice versa. You would think they would at least have all of the train line areas up to par. stupid att. Verizon Network is superior!
Phish007
cobaltage
Posted 4:04 AM 26/8/08
It's about time someone at ATT acknowledged a network issue with 3G. They probably were limited in their ability to learn much from such a limited initial 3G roll out, because of the low number of users. However, it's also true that some folks at ATT don't really quite get it. One of the posts about ATT talking about potentially adopting an Android phone because they were reassured that it would support ATT apps.... That just doesn't make any sense. Android will have one app store. Apple will have two app stores: the official store, and the black market store.
I anticipate that T-Mobile will have a much superior 3G roll out and that Android is going to spread like wildfire. I also anticipate getting an Android compatible unlocked phone and testing it side by side against the iPhone 3G. I have no real regrets getting an iPhone 3G after skipping the first one, since I am now turned on to unlimited 3G data with the right mobile device, but I really think Android will be great.
cobaltage
MICHAELSD
Posted 10:02 AM 26/8/08
Is ATT still planning to upgrade their 3G network to 20mbp/s?
[www.appleinsider.com]
MICHAELSD
yoshi
Posted 10:41 AM 26/8/08
It's funny how iPhone users have shifted the blame to AT&T while Apple sits quietly trying to fix the issue.
Don't you people find it odd that Frucci posts a "fix" to the iPhone 3G issue by turning on and off airplane mode?
Sounds like a hardware issue to me.
yoshi
Whirl
Posted 4:59 AM 26/8/08
Boy..I been saying this all this time...THE NETWORK!
Whirl
SneakerFiend
Posted 12:52 PM 26/8/08
@CaptMoose: Their coverage in NY is unprecedented and places like florida, texas, etc.
You can see in their coverage map they have those three states almost fully blanketed with coverage. Compared to other companies their coverage is super good.
Their coverage is really good the call quality isnt whats best. Which verizon claims they have the most reliable which may be true i dont know much about verizon though.
SneakerFiend
paul96734
Posted 12:45 PM 26/8/08
LOL All I can say is that I am glad that I returned my 3g Iphone. Dropped calls, little to no 3g coverage in Honolulu, and the email service on a POP account was laughable. Luckily I did not turn off my Sprint phone after I singed up for ATT.
paul96734
charger08
Posted 1:17 PM 26/8/08
Wow i cant believe that there are so many people upset with ATT but they dont do anything about it but talk in forums clearly thats not working att service and customer service has been crap for along time and jd powers can vouch for that. you guys are nuts i would cancel my account so fast (if i had one line no family plans i under stand) ask for tmobile service as far as call quality no one will be able to top them with there umts ive used it and its awesome the catch is that the people that are using there blackberries and other old device wont exp it till they get a umts and its avail in there area.
on to another subject verizon aint so good there self i mean they may have bought the 700 mhz spec but they still dont quite know what they are doing with it and even though verizon customer service sucks not sure how the heck they won jd powers this year but it sucks they close at like 1200 midnight i need a place thats open 24 hrs shit my phone and recv and make calls 24 hrs what do i do if something happens and there closed. also with verizon there prices are high as shit and dont get me started on the so called unlimited data thats capped at 5 gbs what kind of advertising is that.
Now tmobile there customer service is great there phone are pretty decent not bad then need some serious upgrading to there devices but the way tmobile is heading is the most promising there actually being patient with there 3g there not rushing it out so they end up with att issues there launching there 3g umts service so voice will be great.l and that android sounds pretty impressive. there wifi calling is awesome comes in handy so well and get this alot of times the phone connects to a secured wifi network and still makes the call with out the wep key so go figure.
charger08
OMG! Ponies!
Posted 1:30 PM 26/8/08
@growler: Let's deconstruct what you just said.
You just said that the fact that you can charge an iPhone 3G using an iPod cord connected to your computer - the same cord you use to sync your iPhone - is proof that you can charge an iPhone 3G using an iPod charger. That's like saying you know a Ford Escort gets over 30 mpg because a Ford Taurus comes with an automatic transmission.
I've been using iPods since the 4G first came out - four years ago. Back then, Apple was gracious enough to package a dock and a charger with the iPod. I still have my original dock and charger which I use to juice up my iPod classic at home. The four year-old charger is compatible with a new iPod. In the electronics world, that's known as being classy.
What irks me is that an 11-month old charger - the one from my iPod classic - will not charge the iPhone 3G. I'd like to just be able to use one charger at the office to top off my iPod and my iPhone 3G. It should be possible as Apple makes the iPod, the iPhone and the charger.
The fact that if I want a spare charger for the office I now have to buy one (never mind the fact that Apple charges $50 for the cradle) is what's known in the electronics industry as "douchetastic".
OMG! Ponies!
UnStatusTheQuo
Posted 1:27 PM 26/8/08
"The application AT&T Bad Service Area would like to use your location"
[ OK ] [ Cancel ]
oh wait it can't connect...
UnStatusTheQuo
roobieroo
Posted 3:03 PM 26/8/08
Just about every person I know who owns an iPhone just leaves 3G turned off all the time so that they don't drop calls so frequently. Edge may be painfully slow but at least you can actually make a phone call. 3G being "fast" only does you some good if you can get it working in the first place. AT&T needs to do something about their horrendous 3G network and do it fast.
roobieroo
jeffindayton
Posted 10:57 PM 26/8/08
they should start advertising 4G so people fotget about their crappy 3G network. I should be in advertising for ATT
jeffindayton
davebg5
Posted 10:45 PM 26/8/08
@SneakerFiend: AT&T's coverage maps are a lie...a fabrication...a fantasy land with magical fairies and unicorns.
When I punch my address into their coverage map I see my entire town, as well as all surrounding towns, all the way to the water (the map even displays the outline of the pier that part of my development sits on) and it says that I am in the "best" voice area with full 3G coverage.
I get no 3G at home. Inside my home I turn off the 3G and still have problems on Edge (fluctuating between No Service and four bars and dropping a substantial amount of calls...sometimes by just moving the phone to the other ear.)
When I've spoken to AT&T CSRs they've told me that according to the maps that they have I am in "good" calling area and am directly in the middle of 3G towers. Apparently, AT&T CSRs have a different coverage map than the one that is on their website.
davebg5
yoshi
Posted 10:36 PM 26/8/08
@roobieroo:
Apple needs to recall ALL 3G iPhones and fix them.
That's where it's heading. Trust me.
yoshi
Daytodaz3
Posted 6:32 AM 27/8/08
AT&T is so huge because of the merger with Cingular.
Take two big mediocre companies, put them together and you've now got one giant mediocre comapny (the largest wireless company in the world??).
Then go ahead and add in exclusive rights to some amazing new device -- like the iPhone -- and you've got a mediocre evil empire in the works.
Then, go ahead and tell your customers you've got more bars in more places, the fewest dropped calls and offer free handjobs with every month of service. Even though you're dropping calls, regularly enjoy spotty coverage and have yet to get a handy from an AT&T employee, those commercials still make you smile.
For now, I guess i'll stick with Verizon. Sometimes my AT&T buddies need to borrow my phone to make calls.
Daytodaz3
downbythetracks
Posted 7:15 AM 27/8/08
Great reporting and analysis. Pretty much proves AT&T doesn't have the best network.
It might be adequate, or even great depending on where you are, and hopefully improving all the time - but it's not all it's advertised as. Now we know.
downbythetracks
Tezlan
Posted 9:13 AM 27/8/08
I don't know what you guys are doing, but I've been all over the country with my att 3G phone and have never ever had an issue with calling. Seattle, San Fran, LA, San Jose, Phoenix, anywhere in New Mexico, Texas & Louisiana, Alabama, NY, PA, OK, NE, IL, MI and many many other places. You guys are so stuck on the iPhone (a phone that continues to have problem after problem) that ATT is bending over backwards to cater to a less than acceptable phone.
Like I said, I've been all over the country, and more often than not, I've had bars and was able to make calls when others were being liberty statues. I don't think it's the network at all.
San Fran definitely has a great 3G network. I was there for 2 weeks and never once lost a call, or didn't have 3G (unless I was in a deeply insulated area).
Get your facts straight and get off your obsession with the iPhone! Go with Nokia, they're so much better.
Tezlan
John_Blaze
Posted 10:43 PM 26/8/08
Not that I'm adding any more than anyone else. But here in Tampa my service dropped from 3G to Edge @ work. I was getting 3G -- the service was slow -- but it was faster than Edge. Now just Edge!? On the Highway --- it's worse! AT&T has work to do.. and alot of it.
John_Blaze
Dude_Ranch
Posted 9:51 AM 26/8/08
I live in SF and feel the AT&T pain. I just went from a personal BlackBerry on T-Mobile to a work BlackBerry on AT&T and the result has been disasterous. Dropped calls...terrible reception. On paper it looked like an upgrade...reality is that it feels more like a downgrade.
I thought it was just the part of town I live in, but soon realized that it is more prevalent than I thought. Recent travels to Chicago, Boston, Denver, Seattle proved that AT&T reception SUCKS EVERYWHERE.
Dude_Ranch
cvmd
Posted 9:19 AM 26/8/08
Just came back from a week in the Outer Banks where I passed a billboard proclaiming "OBX is AT&T Territory". Ironically, for the first time in 15 years I had no cellular service from one end of the island (Ocracoke) to the other, whatsoever.
AT&T's spotty network coverage has actually done me a favor....keeping me off the "grid" for a whole week!
Thanks AT&T!
cvmd
RoccoGalopamonster
Posted 6:23 AM 26/8/08
An acquaintance is a contractor working on the 3G upgrades. A couple of interesting tidbits that he dropped this weekend: each of the past 3 weeks, the weekly budget his project installing more capacity at existing cell sites in the SF bay area has increased and now it is more than double the initial budget; the 2.0.2 software update included AT&T-requested fixes to make the iPhone make more efficient use of bandwidth. He also claimed that Apple breached an agreement with AT&T by selling too many phones in the initial weeks after the iPhone 3G was released. I have no way of verifying any of this, but perhaps someone with more connections does. In a conversation a few weeks ago, he explained that one problem customers will experience with 3G is that as the number of simultaneous calls on a specific tower goes up, the signal footprint shrinks. He attributed this to the maximum power limits that each transmitter is licensed for. AT&T is trying to address this with a project he refers to as "second carrier": add a second transmitter to each existing site so that you can effectively double the maximum power available at that site. Any RF engineers who can validate whether this is true or plausible?
RoccoGalopamonster
tcw67
Posted 5:17 AM 26/8/08
Why didn't you ask about UMA coverage? Having that option would cover me for 80% of my day and I wouldn't have to give a damn about their lousy network.
tcw67
GodwinLycus
Posted 4:18 AM 26/8/08
If or when VZW gets the iPhone ATT will be in serious trouble. What on earth was Verizon thinking when they turned Apple down???
GodwinLycus
cepheusfilms
Posted 4:19 AM 26/8/08
Hello,
While his plan sounds just spiffy, where does this leave us right now? I'm in Manhattan and the call quality is shit. The call strength on the sidewalk can go from five bars to NO SERVICE. Try walking from Bowery down 2nd Street towards 3rd or 2nd Avenue. It goes to NO SERVICE.
I took it back and they confirmed that the phone wasn't automatically switching to EDGE. It even dropped to NO SERVICE in the Apple Store.
So he gave me a now one. I went down the same block and it did the same thing. Grrrrr.
The next day the top button stopped working so you couldn't reboot, turn the screen off, etc. Took it back to the store and it started working again while we were fiddling with it.
WTF. I've now wasted a huge amount of time sitting on a wood bench in the Apple Store.
The phone is fantastic except for two fairly major issues:
1. Call quality is shit.
a. It drops calls constantly in the middle of a major metropolitan area.
b. Signal strength disappears once you enter any building. I can barely get a signal on the first floor on my apartment.
2. Battery life is shit.
a. Self explanatory.
Now perhaps I am asking too much of a cell phone, but didn't it strike them that perhaps these are the fundamental requirements for a successful phone?
In my opinion all the U.S. cell phone companies suck rocks. I could care less who I end up with as long as they have their shit together and don't maim me for monthly fees.
It's like they hooked up a Ferrari to a donkey cart.
So fucking typical.
FIX IT ALREADY.
When I was leaving the store, I found the manager and politely let him know that of all the thousands that my company and my clients companies have spent (not to mention my parents growing up) on Apple products, this has to be the absolutely most disappointing product we have ever purchased.
He just sighed.
C
cepheusfilms