It would be completely hilarious to me if the iPhone ended up being the n-gage, only, you know, good.

matteric

what about this... this is the second one i've seen in development...

[www.iphonic.tv]

doctorSpoc

It's just a bit of adjusting to the new concept and learning curve for programmers. Otherwise, bring it on. It's going to be an awesome platform for games.

Ken_Darrow

@videoCWK: Since iPhone was developed to run OSX you'd better believe it is more powerful than the DS...

trendspotter

if it cant use the dock then just have a controller that is bluetooth but still clips into the dock to hold it.

thedommer

They need to come out with a sleek bluetooth controller that matches the aesthetics of the iphone. Apple is slick enough to make a really mainstream mobile gaming platform if they try for it.

AlexLand

@nutbastard:

I thought I read somewhere that apps cannot make us of the dock connector. What about bluetooth though? I assume that we will see some sort of support for peripherals in the future, but probably not for a while.

justinpe

I know the whole "motion gaming" thing is hot shit right now but seriously, I don't care that much about wiggling my phone to play a game. Focus on the multitouch, with the right design you can utilize that much more than the accelerometer.

I was just thinking how much fun it'd be to play one of the old Sprite style Final Fantasy games on the iPhone, you can select enemies and spells/abilities easily with the multitouch. Using the touchscreen for things like highlighting multiple things or gesture type controls where you move your finger on the screen to swing a sword, etc, all of those can be much more useful and enjoyable than the motion aspects. Not to mention the fact that you can only move the thing so much before you stop being able to see what you're doing on the screen (or look like a retard on the subway...).

Lance Wallen

On-Rails shooter...that's a genre that should make a come-back on the iPhone

House of Dead anyone? Games...NOT movie...

Chromeo is typing this on his iPhone 3G

@BoinK: Good point. Also, lets not forget that Nintendo hasn't really been focusing on cutting edge graphics and processing power as much as it has been simplicity in game play for the casual gamer.

Nick-Tick

If you want real games, get a DS or PSP. It's kinda hard to design a game with one exit button.

secretmanofagent

Hmmm, let me try that again ...

[farm4.static.flickr.com]

GeekyNerdGuy

I think something like this would be simple enough.

GeekyNerdGuy

@rexplex:

excellent question!

found the rules, i dont see anything about the dock connector...

nutbastard

@videoCWK: The DS was released in 2004, the iPhone in 2007. A LOT happens in that time when it comes to computers in case you didn't know.

BoinK

@rexplex: No matter what the current "rules" say, I'm sure if you developed one that worked well, Apple would OK it.

GeekyNerdGuy

cliping into the bottom would be great. as long as its small.

thedommer

Yeah, when I get bored with a game, I just take some time out to jiggle my bat a little.

oo0cyst0oo

@Sir Owen Guinness:

I think Super Monkey Ball is awesome. I've beaten every level, but I've only been able to unlock one of the hidden levels so far. It definitely took some time to get used to, and it was frustrating at times, but now I can fly through most stages without falling.

That being said, I don't think these types of controls lend itself to different types of games like first person shooters etc. It would be nice to have some sort of add on with buttons and an analog controller for particular games. I thought the controls on Bomberman were OK, but could be improved with a physical control pad of some sort. Also, the game was way too short.

justinpe

I'm thinking a bluetooth gamepad thats the dimensions of those credit card sized remotes you get with a lot of stereos these days, so that you could keep the controller in your wallet when not in use..
As for attaching it to the iphone for gaming on the move, I'm sure someone will figuure a simple mechanism.

Lukewpnunn

What are the SDK rules on the dock connector?

rexplex

I don't know if it's funny or sad that a phone made without gaming in mind (to my knowledge) turned out to have better graphics capabilities than the Nintendo DS.

And I agree with Gann, bluetooth gaming peripherals would be cool. They just need to be not awful. If we had a simple snap on controller even (it could connect to the dock connector) it would be fine, as long as they left the game developing entirely to the game developers.

videoCWK

I bet it's not too long before there's a plug in D-pad. You could throw a D-pad on one side of the screen, buttons on the other. Sure, it doesn't take advantage of the touch screen and motion interface, but it would be a quick solution to all of the old-school games that could easily be emulated.

GeekyNerdGuy

Super Monkey Ball?

More like super smashed iphone ball.

GET ON IT and make it retroactive. What a waste of ten bucks, infuriating.

Sir Owen Guinness

So the moral of the story is that it will never be a solid game platform because the accelerometers aren't good enough? Or can the smoothing algorithms make up for that? And what about using touch controls instead of the accelerometer?

ezman

So when are we going to see bluetooth gaming peripherals for the iPhone?

Gann

Personally, this thread is akin to the Blackberry v. iPhone topic. You can not compare analog controls to virtual ones. iPhone is not a dedicated gaming device, just as it is not a dedicated email/keyboard device.

There are shortcomings associated with that fact. That said, as the first ready for prime time mobile platform, it is pretty damn good at a lot of things, including gaming.

It's no swiss army knife, to be sure.

If interested in more fodder on the topic, check out:

iPhone 2.0: What it Means to be Mobile
[thenetworkgarden.com]

Cheers,

Mark

netgarden

@SuperCollider: Ahh, I always forget about the Google trick.

itchytooth

You also have to remember that the ds was also done in such a way to keep gameboy advance backwards capability.

majortom1029

@itchytooth: here's the link you're all talking about. [gizmodo.com]

Using Search within Gizmodo and other Gawker sites can be a pain in the butt. If you're looking for an old article on Gizmodo but you're having difficulty, run your search from google instead. Type site:gizmodo.com followed by your search criteria, and even the comments become searchable.

SuperCollider

My iPhone gets better reception than my DS,which is why I bought an iPhone in the first place.

kaylix

In my opinion, there is a fundamental problem with leaving it up to developers to figure out a good UI or control scheme for a game. Apple letting developers figure this out is contrary to everything else they do in UI, which is just weird... IMHO, if Apple is serious about iPhone gaming, then they need to provide a consistent way for developers to provide controls.

Geraldo

@doctorSpoc:

Oh God, and I thought the original PSP was Game Gear huge. With all that real estate, you'd think they could've slapped on two analogs.

Plan303e

Some people tout the graphical superiority of the iPhone, but so did past competitors like Game Gear, Lynx, and Wonderswan... and the Dreamcast of portables, N-Gage [sic]. I think the iPhone is the first competitor to have worse controls than the latter.

Apple is doing it wrong, seeing how gaming was more of an afterthought than a fully fleshed-out feature. Despite the PSP's flaws (UMD being the most glaring and damning) Sony has proven that it is a viable alternative, or even a complement, to the DS. I have both, and use them for two different experiences, since there are many different exclusive games and not as many multi-platform titles. And, the video performance on the PSP is just sexy, especially when given CFW. The DS is cheap and easy to use on the get-go, and relatively easy to replace.

Plan303e

@GeekyNerdGuy:

iPhone dock controller add on is already being developed..

[www.iphonic.tv]

doctorSpoc

@GeekyNerdGuy: Oh, I'm sorry GeekyNerdGuy, that's just simply not pretty enough to be an Apple Approved Accessory. Please play again!
J/K, I like the concept, but it seems like this train of thought is exactly what they were trying to avoid by making the iPhone/iTouch essentially lacking buttons altogether.

davidfbecker

Super Monkey Ball is a blast once you get it down, but TapTap shows that you can have a great time with multitouch

I highly recommend TapTap

Jakelshark

People who complain about Super Monkey Balls controls are just bad at the game. Go find something easier to play. I love it personally. Remember the old NES days when games were always that hard? Contra anyone?

centipedex

@GeekyNerdGuy: I can't find the link, but Gizmodo showed a prototype like that a few months ago. Actually, here's something. It looks a little different than the one I remember.

itchytooth

why don't game developers just add soft buttons on the side of the screen + the accelerometer... that should be enough.

doctorSpoc

I can play Super Monkey Ball just fine, but like a previous poster said, don't tilt it so much. I would love a connected attachment for some games.

jaredgibbs

@netgarden:

Aren't there also shortcomings with dedicated devices? For example, only being able to accomplish one task. Or having to carry around 20 separate devices and chargers.

Also, I'm not aware of any device that is dedicated solely to email. Some devices with email capabilities are certainly easier to use and more functional than others. The iPhone and Blackberry both come to mind.

justinpe

I agree. All we need is a snap on 'case' that includes a thumbstick on one side, four buttons on the other side, and maybe a couple sholder buttons.

I don't think it would be that hard to pull off - and having controls simillar to a PSP WITH Tilt control active as well would be awesome.

I imagine motorcycle racing games where you can turn with the thumbstick, and lean with the motion control. That would be siiiiiiick!

tek_nic

I want to see an add on that hooks up to the 30-pin connector and have that be a standard controller... PLZ that would be sick

Ferg1

Yea, I think Monkey Ball is great. I first I was so upset at it, cause I really thought the controls suck. They actually don't. It's just hard to play cause your tilting to much. You have to be very very gentle. And then he'll roll slowly, and you'll be fine.

I do think we need an add-on for a controller. However, as for as cell phone games, these are the best in the business.

Mel

melman101

+ Watch video

justinpe

I'll even take a SNES game pad......

justinpe

@Chromeo is typing this on his iPhone 3G: Forget "House of Dead" in either form, it's "House of Cards" that should make the jump from movie to game.

Also, someone should resurrect Glider for iPhone.

frigg

MotionX Poker (poker dice game) uses the accelerometer and touch screen flawlessly. Shaking the iPhone rolls the dice. Touch the dice you want to keep. Simple and elegant. It's a terrific game for only $4.99.

ObtuseGoose

@frigg: I'm pretty sure it's Lupus this time. Damn it!

92BuickLeSabre

@frigg: Oops. Meant "House of Games."

No offense to "House of Cards" or "House of Dead." or even "House" (which would also make an OK game). It's just that there's nothing that screams gameplay on an iPhone as much as a David Mamet psychological thriller.

frigg

@92BuickLeSabre: Guessing lupus on the game version of "House" takes the player back a level and loses 1,000 points. Even if the patient has lupus.

frigg

"Developers need to create smoothing algorithms in order to take random data points and interpret them into a curve which can then be used as movement info..."

Which means, basically, that we're on version 1.0 of the software. As such, I'd say that NONE of the existing software really uses the hardware to its best advantage.

Come back to me again next year, after everyone has a chance to work out the kinks and companies develop applications DESIGNED for the phone, and not just one or two ported and jury-rigged to use the tilt sensors instead of a D-pad.

ghmlco

@Chromeo is typing this on his iPhone 3G: REZ.

Valicious

Something like a Bluetooth nunchuck controller would be pretty cool. I like how the ds fps games use the bottom screen for aiming. I think it'd be possible to use the bottomhalf of the phone for the same purpose while using the accelerometer for things like reloading. Then the nunchuck for strafing and such.

karbon4

@bobdobbs: @92BuickLeSabre: @frigg: [itsnotlup.us]

lpranal

@92BuickLeSabre: {don't say lupus, don't say lupus, don't say...}

Lupus?

D'oh!

bobdobbs

@frigg: The patient enters the room.

"My symptoms range from mild to severe and come and go over time. However, some of my most common symptoms include painful and swollen joints (arthritis), unexplained fever, and extreme fatigue. I have a characteristic red skin rash (the so-called butterfly or malar rash) across my nose and cheeks as well as rashes on my face and ears, upper arms, shoulders, chest, and hands. I am very sensitive to sunlight (called photosensitivity) and the skin rashes first developed and have worsened after sun exposure.

I have also had chest pain, hair loss, anemia (a decrease in red blood cells), mouth ulcers, and pale/purple fingers and toes from cold and stress and experience headaches, dizziness, depression, confusion, and seizures.

My medical tests show that I have nephritis, anemia, vasculitis and pleuritis.

Can you please tell me what is wrong with me?"

92BuickLeSabre

@frigg: Noooo! bobdobbs, what were you thinking! I told you it wasn't LUPUS! lpranal told you it wasn't LUPUS! frigg told you it wasn't LUPUS!

I will not do clinic duty because of your mistake bobdobbs! I. Will. Not!

92BuickLeSabre

@92BuickLeSabre: Damnit! If he dies the game reverts to clinic duty for a week!

frigg

@lpranal: Awesome! Somewhere, some hacker is contemplating automatic redirection from [www.lupus.org] to [itsnotlup.us] as we speak.

frigg

@frigg: Shake it! Shake it fast!!!!

92BuickLeSabre

@92BuickLeSabre: Hmmm.. should I tilt right for autoimmune, left for infection, pinch to biopsy the liver, or take an MMS consult from the cloud?

Hmm....

Wait... it's vibrating... V-fib... someone flick in a crash cart STAT!!!

frigg

@oo0cyst0oo: Wait...so the patient is indestructible?

Huh. This is a crappy game after all.

92BuickLeSabre

@92BuickLeSabre: @frigg: @lpranal: @lpranal: I have done more research into the matter. And, after speaking with my colleagues at the Mayo Clinic, it sounds most like:

[video.google.com]

so, it's NOT lupus!

oo0cyst0oo

I will buy the iPhone is a week or two, but I can't see it replacing my DS. I'm sure I will purchase a few igames, but if the phone can't run Space Invaders Extreme and other arcade shooters it will always be a secondary portable gaming device in my house.

SlinkyDink

@justinpe: Wow...just think if you spent all that time on something beneficial to humanity...or yourself.

Sorry...did I just say that out loud?

craig

iControlPad, people, iControlPad.

metalgear08

I've played Monkeyball, Crash Bandicoot and Cro-Mag and I hate them, the game control is terrible! The best game for control on the iPod Touch I've found is Enigmo which utilizes incredibly well the touchscreen.

aussie

My alarm clock is more powerful than a DS.

DelSource

@videoCWK: thats why the Nintendo DS has sold 100 million units since it came out?? Not to mention it's only $150...

It's the same thing with the Wii...it's not all about graphics...

dandaman247

@justinpe: every device has tradeoffs. My only point is that if you think of devices performing different jobs and then assess how well they perform those jobs relative to shortcomings and constraints, you can see how a blackberry is a better pure email device than an iPhone but an inferior internet device and pathetic as a gaming device. It is a great phone too. The jobs I most care about are phone and email which is why I own a blackberry. In my case, it is worth having a second device (mostly for home and car use that I can have for media, gaming and information services, which is why I love my iPod touch. I personally am not more than a casual gamer so the touch is 'good enough' and pretty darn good subject to its limitations from a controller perspective. If your thing was shoot em up types of games that require multiple inputs, that is not the strong suit of the iPhone/iPod touch.

There is a tendency to confuse attributes with outcomes, which is why so many devices with a ton of 'features' suck. They don't deliver the outcome that the consumer expected.

Mark

netgarden

@Gann: Considering the iPhone already has the capability to be connected to a television set using one of Apple's iPod/iPhone component or composite cables, I can see that happening in the near future.

CTRLled

If you want to see how well the accelerometers can be used, try Labyrinth. Feels very natural. I don't think it's a hardware issue, but rather a software one.

tastewar

control pad for iphone coming

[www.icontrolpad.com]

tcrown

guys, how about this: making some buttons (maybe semitransparent?) on the left and right of the screen, like a joystick or whatever...

ddragos

guys how about this: making some (semitransparent maybe?) controls on the right and left of the screen for actions and movement? something like you see on a joystick...

ddragos

More tweaking required, proves even more why I've waited to get the Wii, I'd way prefer the iPhone over the PSP. They need to make some unique games for handhelds rather then downsized games for standard game systems.

I'm surprised the iPhone can handle The Force Unleased. It uses a new simulation technique rather than scripting object reactions. They'll probably have to downgrade that kind of programming though.

I'm still wondering if developers will take to iPhone gaming though, after all it is a *phone*

basicxman

Meh. Unless a decent control peripheral is released, I'm staying away from iPhone/iTouch gaming (save Tap Tap Revenge from installer.app...that shit is FUN! [and I'm on the high score list for quite a few songs as well...])

Anyways. Anyone else here waiting on the Pandora?
THIS is going to be what the PSP should have been (well, don't bash me for it. I mean cmon, you can't say you don't miss dual joysticks, and a touchscreen, and a keyboard, and solder pads on the mother board encouraging you to modify it!)

Rob C

I'm glad I was too busy to read last week. The iPhone really is cool, but it is not perfect. Let's everybody just say that ten times and reflect.

jtwaverly