Science
Scientists Propose Adding Lime to Oceans to Reduce CO2
Posted by Kit Eaton at 2:20 AM on July 22, 2008
The oceans already absorb megatons of atmospheric carbon, but scientists say that there's a way to boost this so that CO2 levels could drop to pre-industrial age levels. The answer sounds like a cocktail recipe: add lime. Limed seawater has boosted alkalinity, which lets it absorb more CO2 and stops it from releasing it back so readily. The idea's been around for a while, but the new proposition is that lime production should occur in areas rich in energy resources and limestone, but where commercial power generation is overly expensive. One suggested location is Nullarbor Plain in Australia which has limestone and abundant sunlight for solar power. Sounds like a whacky but not-infeasible scheme, though I suspect there're quite a few "polluting the oceans" concerns to get around before it could be tried out. [Physorg]

Comments (AU Comments · US Comments)
There are currently no AU comments for this post.
giyad
Posted 3:49 AM 22/7/08
5 years from now fish start to taste better
giyad
Kit Eaton
Posted 3:42 AM 22/7/08
@OMG! Ponies!: Oh, I've just been having a caipi at the beach bar! Yummy! Best use of limes known to man
Kit Eaton
GeekyNerdGuy
Posted 3:40 AM 22/7/08
@92FakeThomasJefferson: Do they even still make Tequiza? I always thought it tasted like the milk left over after eating Fruity Pebbles -- though not as milky.
GeekyNerdGuy
jonny6pak
Posted 3:26 AM 22/7/08
@Hectorvex: Yes, but that's not as funny to me, hence the use of actual limes, just like the post's image.
jonny6pak
stryder100
Posted 3:22 AM 22/7/08
In Kim Stanley Robinson's trilogy "Science in the Capital" they drop tons of salt into the Atlantic to combat global warming.
stryder100
Noobs-R-Us
Posted 3:18 AM 22/7/08
I think it would be much easier to just have a vegetarian pee in the ocean day! Their pee is alkaline. It would be much easier and you could get billions of participants!
Noobs-R-Us
DaSmith
Posted 3:17 AM 22/7/08
@MadColombian: Nah... When they add the Tequila and Corona we'll just have some boozed fish, big deal :D
DaSmith
berribrand
Posted 3:12 AM 22/7/08
It's like how some people said that you can throw particles into the atmosphere to block incoming sunlight so the temperatures do not climb as high as is being predicted under global warming. Riiight. Let's throw shit into the air because that's always a great idea! Woot!...
/Sarcasm off.
berribrand
92FakeThomasJefferson
Posted 3:11 AM 22/7/08
@92FakeThomasJefferson: Differentiating between "to" and "too" however?
To hard. I mean Too Hard! Too Hard!
(Wait, I didn't mean it like that...wait, that's not what I'm saying either. Gaaaah!)
92FakeThomasJefferson
ps61318
Posted 3:10 AM 22/7/08
@godwhacker: while you're at it, how about COBOL as well?
ps61318
92FakeThomasJefferson
Posted 3:08 AM 22/7/08
@strider_mt2k:
Your ocean's are more than just granite. (Janet.)
Our flight's from Planet Tequiza, and we'll man it. (Janet.)
Just please, don't tell me to can it. (Janet.)
Instead we'll drop hoses and dammit, Janet
...make some draft lime brew!
(Yes, I know it's the other kind of lime, but "All Your Base Are Belong To Us" seemed to easy.)
92FakeThomasJefferson
Chromeo is typing this on his iPhone 3G
Posted 3:08 AM 22/7/08
@OMG! Ponies!:
Mojitos are awesome...I could go for one right now.
Stupid not-drinking-on-the-job rules...These pre-schoolers need to learn how to take care of themselves eventually right???
Chromeo is typing this on his iPhone 3G
graphx
Posted 3:07 AM 22/7/08
now when i go to the beach and get a mouth full of salty water it will now have a feint hint of lime!!!!!! shakaka!!!
graphx
kaylix
Posted 3:02 AM 22/7/08
Doesn't it make more sense to treat the cause rather than the symptom.
This sounds like the beginnings of a chain reaction to disaster.
kaylix
drewls
Posted 3:01 AM 22/7/08
@godwhacker:
Done and done! :D
drewls
ANoel
Posted 2:59 AM 22/7/08
@strider_mt2k:
M A H V E L L O U S !
ANoel
strider_mt2k
Posted 2:55 AM 22/7/08
planet.
(dammit)
(janet)
strider_mt2k
strider_mt2k
Posted 2:55 AM 22/7/08
We're already worried about Aliens coming for our precious water, what do you think they'll do for a plane that's 2/3 7-UP!
+ Watch video
strider_mt2k
kOtic
Posted 2:51 AM 22/7/08
@Beard Police: RIP Mitch Hedberg
kOtic
Hectorvex
Posted 2:50 AM 22/7/08
@OMG! Ponies!: Yeah, but sometimes we just want a beer that has a good taint aftertaste...
Hectorvex
ps61318
Posted 2:49 AM 22/7/08
For all of you who found it necessary to point out that the article was NOT referring to the citrus fruit (and may have actually believed the people who jokingly said otherwise), I say: Don't have a CaO, man.
ps61318
ps61318
Posted 2:45 AM 22/7/08
@OMG! Ponies!: You make "tastes like ass" sound so negative!
And I like lemon in my water...because I like lemon in my water. We have the world's best tap water here and I see no reason to cover it up.
ps61318
Monty
Posted 2:45 AM 22/7/08
Any type of engineering (biological or otherwise) to fix the planet is a method of last resort. As a result, the big question on this concept is how long it would take for it to make a difference to global CO2 levels. Heck, if it comes to it, we could always create a giant sun-visor in space, too, but -- method of last resort.
Monty
godwhacker
Posted 2:44 AM 22/7/08
@ps61318:
+1 steely dan reference
godwhacker
godwhacker
Posted 2:42 AM 22/7/08
@drewls:
start w/algore, and you have a deal!
godwhacker
ps61318
Posted 2:42 AM 22/7/08
@grspec: Gots de lime, gots de salt, ya, mahn, just de Cuervo Gold, de Fine Colombian, make tonight a wonderful thing....
ps61318
Boognish
Posted 2:42 AM 22/7/08
It's not nice to fool mother nature!
Boognish
Hectorvex
Posted 2:41 AM 22/7/08
@jonny6pak: They'd actually have to be carrying a couple buckets of Calcium Oxide, not the citrus fruit.
Hectorvex
godwhacker
Posted 2:40 AM 22/7/08
@junyo:
well put, sir, well put
godwhacker
scarbrtj
Posted 2:39 AM 22/7/08
How 'bout we add Limeys 'stead of lime, eh Guvnah?
scarbrtj
Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!
Posted 2:39 AM 22/7/08
So all I need to do is add salt to the fishes, and bon appetit?
Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!
drewls
Posted 2:38 AM 22/7/08
We should do the world a bigger favor and throw all of these grant money sucking phony 'scientists' into the oceans to reduce BS.
drewls
jonny6pak
Posted 2:37 AM 22/7/08
I saw the image in post and suddenly imaged a few drunk guys in Jersey are going to take a break from harassing dolphins to boat out into the ocean, slam whole limes into the water, and heckle the ocean. "Yeah, you friggin ocean, take that! You ain't so tough now you friggin CO2 production jerk! Learn your lesson water!"
jonny6pak
junyo
Posted 2:36 AM 22/7/08
Yes, because the monkeys radically altering the chemical balance of 70% of the Earth's surface to alter a recent and quite possibly naturally occurring climatic event couldn't possibly have unintended consequences.
junyo
GeekyNerdGuy
Posted 2:35 AM 22/7/08
Well, I certainly think the addition of lime makes any soda better.
I'm drinking Lime Diet Pepsi right now.
GeekyNerdGuy
OMG! Ponies!
Posted 2:35 AM 22/7/08
@dorylomorphs: Corona tastes like ass and for good reason. It's made water filtered from a sewage treatment plant. The lime is there to cover the taste (kind of like tap water with a slice of lemon).
Mojitos are mighty tasty. May I suggest Caipirinha, the Mojito's sexy Brazilian cousin. It's made with cachaca instead of rum and no mint. Cachaca is distilled from sugar cane juice whereas run is distilled from molasses.
In fact, I might pop off for one right now...
OMG! Ponies!
PocketLint
Posted 2:34 AM 22/7/08
Are you sure they don't mean Lime as in calcium, often fount in the form of limestone? This type of lime increases alkalinity.
The other Lime, from the tree, would raise the acidity of the sea.
PocketLint
Beard Police
Posted 2:34 AM 22/7/08
"saved by the buoyancy of citrus"
Beard Police
ANoel
Posted 2:33 AM 22/7/08
@LittleJon:
Ja Mon metoo... deh said "Oceans"... I heard "Coconut"!
= |
ANoel
grspec
Posted 2:32 AM 22/7/08
Add some Tequila and a day at the beach will never be the same.
grspec
atomx
Posted 2:32 AM 22/7/08
@Git Em SteveDave is a poor substitute for LindsayJoy: I thought is was from cow farts! Man, every time I get behind a cause, someone pulls the rug out from under me..
atomx
ANoel
Posted 2:31 AM 22/7/08
Silly Woman!
"Doctor! Ain't there nothin' I can take, you say
Doctor! To relieve your bellyache, you say
Doctor! Ain't there nothin' I can take, you say
Doctor! You such a silly woman.
Put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both together
Put the lime in the coconut, then you feel better
Put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both down
Put the lime in the coconut, an' call me in the mo-o-o-ornin'.
ANoel
liquidsoapdispenser
Posted 2:31 AM 22/7/08
@aelver: Yeah, the comedic misdirection by the Giz confused me too.
liquidsoapdispenser
LittleJon
Posted 2:29 AM 22/7/08
@aelver: Ok. You got there before I could post!
LittleJon
LittleJon
Posted 2:28 AM 22/7/08
@aelver: Not that type of lime! It was a gizmodo joke. It's lime, as in calcium oxide.
LittleJon
aelver
Posted 2:27 AM 22/7/08
Ohh duh, calcium oxide. You guys and your tricky pictures ;)
aelver
LittleJon
Posted 2:27 AM 22/7/08
Seeding the oceans with iron to boost algae growth (that would absorb CO2) was found to have more dangers than benefits. This will probably go the same way.
LittleJon
Mayor McRib
Posted 2:26 AM 22/7/08
Adding lime could potentially destroy the delicate balance of trace chemicals. The ocean floor could be possibly be destroyed*.
* I prefer lemon over lime.
Mayor McRib
Git Em SteveDave is a poor substitute for LindsayJoy
Posted 2:26 AM 22/7/08
I just heard an article which said that most of the methane that is being produced comes from the oceans as well. Damn oceans.
Git Em SteveDave is a poor substitute for LindsayJoy
aelver
Posted 2:25 AM 22/7/08
Limes boost alkalinity? Uhhh, do they not contain citric acid?
p.s. My chemistry was never good.
aelver
MadColombian
Posted 2:25 AM 22/7/08
Wouldn't this hurt the fish in the ocean or something?
I cant help but think that this is going to backfire eventually.
MadColombian
dorylomorphs
Posted 2:25 AM 22/7/08
Coronas and Mojitos FTW?
dorylomorphs
dwhitman
Posted 4:17 AM 22/7/08
Lime is made on industrial scale by heating up limestone (CaCO3) until it gives off CO2, leaving CaO behind.
The resulting lime can absorb exactly as much CO2 as was generated in the process of making the lime in the first place. At best, you can break even.
But wait, it gets worse. If you burn any fuel to make the heat needed to convert CaCO3 to CaO, you have a net increase in CO2 level.
How exactly is this process supposed to help reduce atmospheric CO2 levels?
dwhitman
Rabid Penguin
Posted 4:09 AM 22/7/08
oh my... has everyone gone insane?
Rabid Penguin
Git Em SteveDave is a poor substitute for LindsayJoy
Posted 4:01 AM 22/7/08
@atomx: well cows still contribute, but not as much as the ocean. What's even worse is that as they produce methane, the temp of the seas goes up, which makes them produce MORE methane. It's like me that one time I went to the buffet at PizzaHut.
Git Em SteveDave is a poor substitute for LindsayJoy
bgbs
Posted 4:01 AM 22/7/08
I say dont mess with nature or it will bite back. Scientists have made many mistakes in the past by messing with nature.
Let nature repair itself, it nows how.
bgbs
Hvedhrungr
Posted 3:57 AM 22/7/08
@giyad: Five years from now, computer mice will be extinct, and fish will taste fruity... I don't like where this world is headed!
Hvedhrungr
92FakeThomasJefferson
Posted 4:49 AM 22/7/08
@GeekyNerdGuy: I must admit, I've never had a Tequiza. But I do enjoy Fruity Pebbles!
92FakeThomasJefferson
frigg
Posted 4:49 AM 22/7/08
@The_Gas_Man: Problem is, environmentalists float and clog shipping lanes. At least the oil execs sink.
frigg
92FakeThomasJefferson
Posted 4:49 AM 22/7/08
@The_Gas_Man: While I empathize with the sentiment, I would prefer to avoid the oceanic clean-up necessary from the massive levels of greasiness exhibited by both.
92FakeThomasJefferson
Duc
Posted 4:48 AM 22/7/08
@dwhitman: The answer is yes.
Duc
Duc
Posted 4:47 AM 22/7/08
@kaylix: +1
Humans are good at putting band-aids on next to damn near everything. God forbid we actually look at the real problem.
Duc
frigg
Posted 4:47 AM 22/7/08
Maybe this is all part of an evolutionary parabola, with the lime-seeding of oceans followed by a generation of human coelacanths as inevitable steps in our return to the sea.
frigg
UofITom
Posted 4:45 AM 22/7/08
Right, this can't possibly have any negative effects like killing everything in the ocean....
UofITom
The_Gas_Man
Posted 4:42 AM 22/7/08
@johnnyabnormal:
I think the best solution is to throw the environmentalists into the ocean. There are far more of them than there are oil executives.
The_Gas_Man
godwhacker
Posted 4:39 AM 22/7/08
@Noobs-R-Us:
we could, but it would take away from all their other tasks, like peeing all over other people's choices of food, entertainment, and clothing.
godwhacker
godwhacker
Posted 4:35 AM 22/7/08
@ps61318:
you mean the programming COBOL?
sure, why not? just don't screw with my BASIC, i loves me some basic. in fact where is my box with the rolls of punch tape?, i swear i had it just 40 years ago or so.........
godwhacker
Rabid Penguin
Posted 4:33 AM 22/7/08
@johnnyabnormal: So you want to open up offshore drilling too?
Rabid Penguin
jorvay
Posted 4:26 AM 22/7/08
@dwhitman: That's what I was thinking. Thanks for confirming.
Did anybody else read this and automatically think of the awesome Giant-Icecube Global-Warming Solution from Futurama?
jorvay
johnnyabnormal
Posted 4:23 AM 22/7/08
I think the best solution is to throw the oil execs into the ocean....
johnnyabnormal
frigg
Posted 5:07 AM 22/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: Interesting... I suppose I was overly focused on the buoyancy of hot air.
frigg
propertius
Posted 5:04 AM 22/7/08
@92FakeThomasJefferson: Shark species seem to like fat, so maybe it wouldn't be problem after all.
propertius
taciturnforsale
Posted 5:01 AM 22/7/08
Wouldn't a change in alkalinity kill off a large amount of fish? I guess if you slowly got them used to it, but even then there would be a limit.
taciturnforsale
justaj
Posted 5:00 AM 22/7/08
My mom visited Mexico a few months back and bought me a bottle of tequila. I don't even drink tequila. I told her I liked wine to which she replied 'They don't make wine'. So now I have a bottle of tequila sitting on the floor of my kitchen next to a bottle of Rosie's Lime Juice. Like how I brought it all the way back to the story? Yessssssss!
oh and stop putting stuff in the ocean.
justaj
Arvin Bautista
Posted 4:58 AM 22/7/08
damn you gizmodo for making a misleading picture to distract from otherwise interesting scientific discourse!
Arvin Bautista
shiftyeyedgoat
Posted 4:57 AM 22/7/08
You put the lime in the sea, you nut... you clean'em both up.
shiftyeyedgoat
Rabid Penguin
Posted 4:56 AM 22/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: Algore chained to anything would sink...
Rabid Penguin
Rabid Penguin
Posted 4:56 AM 22/7/08
@frigg: You have it backwards... Oil floats to the top. Algore chained to a tree would sink.
Rabid Penguin
dookieboy333
Posted 5:54 AM 22/7/08
typical fat american idea....treat the symptoms and not the cause. ie: we have a plethora of sleep aids, diet pills, ADD meds, when in actuality all we really need is to get up and MOVE.
dookieboy333
nmcglynn
Posted 5:47 AM 22/7/08
nmcglynn
GadgetPlay
Posted 5:38 AM 22/7/08
@kaylix: "Doesn't it make more sense to treat the cause rather than the symptom."
Don't be messin' with the Sun!!!
@Duc: "God forbid we actually look at the real problem."
I mean it! Stay away from the Sun!!
@frigg: "I suppose I was overly focused on the buoyancy of hot air."
With that kind of reasoning, Algore would would not only float on water, he'd float away on the air, like a Catholic Priest lazily sailing on the ocean breeze...
GadgetPlay
mehulkamdar
Posted 5:38 AM 22/7/08
The Aussies would do a lot better to use Solar Therml Energy Conversion Systems to process the millions of tons of iron ore that they export to China and ship sponge iron manufactured in their own country instead. Fewer large dry bulk carrier ships plying the sea between Australia and China would mean a lot less fuel used and the electric furnaces that the solar thermal energy systems would use would mean less coal burned in the old Chinese ore-smelters.
As a bonus to the rest of the world, US companies are among the most advanced in the world in Solar Thermal Energy Conversion and the world would get cheap steel to boot. A win-win situation for everyone if it ever happens!
mehulkamdar
OMG! Ponies!
Posted 5:37 AM 22/7/08
@ Everyone:
Do I need to remind you all of the Prime Directive of Man Rules?
NO FRUITING THE BEER
OMG! Ponies!
godwhacker
Posted 6:24 AM 22/7/08
@ps61318:
nifty, i never knew about Algol until you brought it up
[www.engin.umd.umich.edu]
godwhacker
ps61318
Posted 6:15 AM 22/7/08
@godwhacker: Yeah. Algore sounds a lot like a programming language (I guess I was thinking of Algol. Algore, algol, snobol, cobol, etc.)
ps61318
frigg
Posted 6:09 AM 22/7/08
@frigg: */guilty of succumbing to temptation.
frigg
frigg
Posted 6:08 AM 22/7/08
@nmcglynn: Nice!
(the temptation to put "limes" and "overlords" into the same sentence is almost overwhelming).
frigg
Rabid Penguin
Posted 6:06 AM 22/7/08
@dookieboy333: I don't think America has a monopoly on crappy ideas.
Rabid Penguin
Oracle989
Posted 7:08 AM 22/7/08
@kaylix: No, no, they're just taking a House approach, start treatment and hope it gets better, then change it once it makes it worse!
Oracle989
tg7400
Posted 6:40 AM 22/7/08
Stupid idea. even if it reduces CO2 levels in space, when is it going to do to the /ocean/? We suck at "managing" nature. Reminds me of a speech by Crichton. Worth reading:
[www.crichton-official.com]
tg7400
GadgetPlay
Posted 7:25 AM 22/7/08
@GadgetPlay: "Algore would would not only float on water, he'd float away on the air, like a Catholic Priest lazily sailing on the ocean breeze..."
Remember Kids, always proofread!
@dookieboy333: "typical fat american idea....treat the symptoms and not the cause"
I'm serious about that Sun thing! Hands off!
GadgetPlay
codykniffen
Posted 8:05 AM 22/7/08
@jorvay: Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. I love that show!
codykniffen
chukthedukslayr
Posted 6:59 AM 22/7/08
Does no one remember the fact that trees, grass, etc. (which produce most of the oxygen you breathe) need CO2 to survive?
It stands to reason, to me at least, that CO2 levels are not a concern, CO might be on the other hand.
Also rum and tequilla levels are a concern, is there enough??
chukthedukslayr
frndlybnny
Posted 8:25 AM 22/7/08
Well, it was either that or cite The Law of Unintended Consequences.
frndlybnny
OMG! Ponies!
Posted 8:14 AM 22/7/08
@tg7400: re: Michael Crichton.
The man is a right-wing misogynist. Ignore him.
OMG! Ponies!
johnnyabnormal
Posted 8:56 AM 22/7/08
@OMG! Ponies!: I know, huh? Although global climate change deniers love to get their "science" from a fiction writer. Other sources include pill-popping radio talk show hosts, oil companies and internet conspiracy theorists. Super accurate, that bunch! I trust them over scientists any day!
johnnyabnormal
johnnyabnormal
Posted 8:50 AM 22/7/08
@The_Gas_Man: You're looking a little bloated, Gas Man. Need some Pepto?
johnnyabnormal
johnnyabnormal
Posted 8:48 AM 22/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: It's already been open. Millions of acres have been leased and not used. Not that drilling ANWR would change a damn thing. Do your homework, and you'll see.
johnnyabnormal
Rabid Penguin
Posted 9:07 AM 22/7/08
@johnnyabnormal: The executive ban was lifted. There is still a congressional ban. As far as drilling in ANWR, it may not be a short term solution, but how is us being able to make use of our own oil not going to change anything? I thought people were bitching because we're to dependent on foreign oil, then those same people also want to bitch about us using our own oil.
Rabid Penguin
johnnyabnormal
Posted 9:44 AM 22/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: Uh, wrong. There are currently millions of acres on domestic soil and offshore that are not being drilled. The oil companies are simply not using them. Of the 90 million offshore acres the industry has leases to, mostly in the Gulf of Mexico, it is estimated that upwards of 70 million are not producing oil. People are bitching about being dependent on oil, period. Everyone is looking for a quick fix, and there isn't one. Now all those who have been demonizing environmentalists for all these years have been caught with their pants down getting a very expensive gas nozzle up the butt.
johnnyabnormal
johnnyabnormal
Posted 10:02 AM 22/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: Hahaha... Well, it hurts more for those who "pump" the most, no pun intended.
johnnyabnormal
Rabid Penguin
Posted 9:55 AM 22/7/08
@johnnyabnormal:
"Now all those who have been demonizing environmentalists for all these years have been caught with their pants down getting a very expensive gas nozzle up the butt."
Environmentalists have had something stuck up their asses for years... now it seems everyone does :c)
Rabid Penguin
Pablos102030
Posted 10:32 AM 22/7/08
You put the lime in the ocean and shake it all up!
Pablos102030
laio
Posted 10:52 AM 22/7/08
if it were to be the "fruit" as the one i use at my grilled fish and tequila.
it would be nice, but poeple would just get a lot of skin burns. Damn, how i wanted water+lemon to be everywhere.
laio
LittleJon
Posted 11:32 AM 22/7/08
@GadgetPlay: Global warming is not being caused by the sun. That old idea has been discredited. Solar activity has actually been declining since the 1980s.
[environment.newscientist.com]
And it's not down to cosmic rays either:
[www.newscientist.com]
LittleJon
Rabid Penguin
Posted 11:56 AM 22/7/08
@LittleJon: You're right. It's due to cleaner skies.
[environment.newscientist.com]
Seriously though, I don't think anyone knows what the hell they're talking about, including climate scientists. Climatology is an extremely young science and I don't think they fully understand what the hell they're talking about. Just like I'm sick of hearing that everything causes cancer... oh wait, it doesn't... it does again...
Different articles you may find interesting.
[environment.newscientist.com]
[www.newscientist.com]
[www.newscientist.com]
[environment.newscientist.com]
Rabid Penguin
LittleJon
Posted 2:24 PM 22/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: Yes, removal of particulate polution is reducing global dimming (where less sunlight reaches the ground) and this is actually increasing global warming, but it's not the only factor by any means. It's just been a masking factor that's held back global warming and is now going away.
LittleJon
johnnyabnormal
Posted 4:58 PM 22/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: I heard commenting on the Giz can cause cancer...
johnnyabnormal
skiterr
Posted 5:22 PM 22/7/08
[www.dailytech.com]
[www.digitaljournal.com]
[www.larouchepac.com]
@johnnyabnormal: don't even bother answering....
i said...
doooon't....
put that keyboard....
don't you dare hit the subm.....
ohhhh, no you didn't.....
oh, yes you did. Damn it!!!
skiterr
Rabid Penguin
Posted 12:26 AM 23/7/08
@johnnyabnormal: lol. Lucky me then. I don't consider what I do commenting... It's just a random jumble of words. Sometimes I get lucky and those random words form a coherent sentence. It's merely coincidence if it sounds like I'm talking about the subject matter at hand. In no way are my statements intended to explain anything. They are not meant to be criticisms or illustrations. And my statements are neither fact nor opinion.
This is the only "comment" I've ever made on Giz :c) Dammit... you just tricked me into possibly getting cancer :c(
Rabid Penguin
johnnyabnormal
Posted 4:36 AM 23/7/08
@skiterr: Muhahaha! You know, I recently heard all about that fuss caused by "Lord Monckton". (who neglects to be peer reviewed)
From the last link:
"Christopher Monckton! The well-debunked Lord Monckton of Brenchley!!! You cannot be serious!!! Marque apparently could not even find a real physicist for this physics newsletter! !!! You can read Lord Monckton's bio on Wikipedia. He has a diploma in journalism, served as a policy adviser for Margaret Thatcher, "inherited his father's hereditary peerage upon his father's death in 2006," and "was an unsuccessful candidate for a conservative seat in the House of Lords." You might consider him a rich man's (failed) James Inhofe. If you wanted to consider him at all."
Either way, this might explain some things:
[scienceblogs.com]
[www.livescience.com]
[climateprogress.org]
If you want to skip the links, the conclusion is...
"Rumor Debunked: No Flip-Flop on Global Warming"
In their own words from their website [www.aps.org:]
"The American Physical Society reaffirms the following position on climate change, adopted by its governing body, the APS Council, on November 18, 2007:
"Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate."
An article at odds with this statement recently appeared in an online newsletter of the APS Forum on Physics and Society, one of 39 units of APS. The header of this newsletter carries the statement that "Opinions expressed are those of the authors alone and do not necessarily reflect the views of the APS or of the Forum." This newsletter is not a journal of the APS and it is not peer reviewed."
johnnyabnormal
GadgetPlay
Posted 6:43 AM 23/7/08
@LittleJon: "That old idea has been discredited. Solar activity has actually been declining since the 1980s."
And global temperatures have been declining or steady since '98. Think there might be a slight delay between the Sun's activity and it's influence on our temperature? Nah. Couldn't be, doesn't fit the template. "Hey, I know, let's do a study that shows the Sun is not involved with warming the Earth! Then we can continue to get funding!" And it was so...
GadgetPlay
Rabid Penguin
Posted 7:42 AM 23/7/08
@GadgetPlay: After 2014 the Sun will have no effect on the Earth's temperature. Congress banned incandescents... haven't you heard?
Rabid Penguin
johnnyabnormal
Posted 7:47 AM 23/7/08
@GadgetPlay: You need to check your sources, my friend.
@Rabid Penguin: I replaced the incandescent bulbs in my house and the energy efficient ones still get absurdly hot. They are better than a few years ago, but still tweak out my eyes a little.
johnnyabnormal
skiterr
Posted 9:43 AM 23/7/08
@johnnyabnormal: "Digital Journal -- According to new DNA evidence, scientists say the southern tip of Greenland was once covered in lush forests and had a vast population of pants and insect life" [www.digitaljournal.com]
skiterr
GadgetPlay
Posted 9:44 AM 23/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: I forgot about that. That sucker's gonna be one bitch to change. I wonder how many Environmental Extremists it will take? I'm going to guess one billion. Algore to actually change the Sun to a Compact Florescent, and 999,999,999 others to look on and genuflect piously.
GadgetPlay
johnnyabnormal
Posted 1:37 PM 23/7/08
@skiterr: Uh, ever heard of continental drift? Even Antarctica had tropical life in the past:
Either way, that doesn't disprove anthropogenic global climate change in the least.
johnnyabnormal
Rabid Penguin
Posted 4:14 PM 23/7/08
@johnnyabnormal: Do you have cute animations for the supposed supercontinents that preceded Pangaea? The Earth, at one point, probably did only have one giant continent that broke up into the land masses we know today... but four supercontinents?
Rabid Penguin
johnnyabnormal
Posted 4:36 PM 23/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: That, I have never heard of. But feel free to supply links.
johnnyabnormal
skiterr
Posted 6:01 PM 23/7/08
@johnnyabnormal: Muhahaha! "Uh, ever heard of continental drift?" = wrong! The continents have been almost at the present position since Pleistocene, and haven't moved much since then. The DNA samples are only about 100,000 years old, so even if there was movement it wasn't that significant.
It proves that the earth was warmer in the past that it is today, and that was before the industrial eveolution.
Even IPCC is claiming that global warming is taking a 10-20 year break. If they couldn't predict the "break" how can they accurately predict the climate 100 years from now? They can't even predict how long the break is going to be. Since we know less than 0.01% about the planet and how each peace of the puzzle affects the other, there is no way of making an accurate predition about the climate.
skiterr
johnnyabnormal
Posted 6:53 PM 23/7/08
@skiterr:
"Muhahaha! "Uh, ever heard of continental drift?" = wrong! The continents have been almost at the present position since Pleistocene, and haven't moved much since then."
You're dead on with that. My mistake. I misread as 8,000,000 years instead of 800,000 years as cited by your [www.digitaljournal.com] "Dating back 450,000 to 800,000 years ago"
Aside from that, the rest is grasping. Why? Because there is no comparison between the world gradually warming and cooling over many millions of years to the rapid changes happening from pollution now. But, if you want to cut through the wanna-be press, ask the climatologists:
[www.realclimate.org]
It's a very interesting read, but essentially concludes that the article you linked is a result of "good science giving rise to bad press coverage". You are right that temperatures in that region were warmer than they were today...BUT THE SEA LEVEL WAS ALSO 4-6 METERS HIGHER! Let that sink in (no pun intended) for a little while.
On your other point: "Even IPCC is claiming that global warming is taking a 10-20 year break." is total garbage. They have said nothing of the sort and that statement is a complete lie.
Lastly, your statement: "Since we know less than 0.01% about the planet and how each peace of the puzzle affects the other, there is no way of making an accurate predition about the climate."
Speak for yourself. I seem to sense that you work really hard to be wrong about this subject. It must be frustrating to not understand it. :)
johnnyabnormal
Rabid Penguin
Posted 12:38 AM 24/7/08
@johnnyabnormal: Supercontinents: Rodinia, Pannotia, Pangaea. Those are just wikipedia links. They [wikipedia] didn't have a ton of info on the non-Pangaea supercontinents so it may be best to just google for some info. I'm not sure I buy into that, but what do I know :c) It sounds about as crazy as the growing/expanding earth theory if you really start to think about it. And then there is also the hydroplate theory. All the theories are probably wrong lol, but it's fun to read about.
Rabid Penguin
johnnyabnormal
Posted 4:29 AM 24/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: That was interesting. Did you see this?
[en.wikipedia.org]
This is probably one of the biggest reasons I think Pangaea existed (via wiki):
Evidence of Pangaea's existence
Fossil evidence for Pangaea includes the presence of similar and identical species on continents that are now great distances apart. For example, fossils of the therapsid Lystrosaurus have been found in Gandu, South Africa, India and Australia, alongside members of the Glossopteris flora, whose distribution would have ranged from the polar circle to the equator if the continents would have been in their present position; similarly, the freshwater reptile Mesosaurus has only been found in localized regions of the coasts of Brazil and West-Africa.[5]
Additional evidence for Pangaea is found in the geology of adjacent continents, including matching geological trends between the eastern coast of South America and the western coast of Africa.
The polar ice cap of the Carboniferous Period covered the southern end of Pangaea. Glacial deposits, specifically till, of the same age and structure are found on many separate continents which would have been together in the continent of Pangaea.[6]
[edit]
johnnyabnormal
Rabid Penguin
Posted 5:10 AM 24/7/08
@johnnyabnormal: Like I said, I don't doubt that at one time our Earth only had one giant continent. I just doubt that it was Rodinia, Pannotia, and Pangaea. I'm not trying to play semantic word games as to what you would call this giant continent, but I think the explanation given with the current Pangaea theory leaves a lot to be desired.
Rabid Penguin
Rabid Penguin
Posted 5:38 AM 24/7/08
@johnnyabnormal: That's actually a lot to go into... I'll try to find some resources this evening and send you a PM.
Rabid Penguin
johnnyabnormal
Posted 5:29 AM 24/7/08
@Rabid Penguin: "Pangaea theory leaves a lot to be desired"
Really? Like what?
johnnyabnormal