@Mondoz: locksmiths are lock pickers, couldn't really do their job if they weren't. Now if you meant, "why don't lock makers hire lock pickers?", then yes, they do that too. Next question is "why don't they make locks that aren't pickable?", a couple of reasons:
1) Complexity
2) Reliability
3) Cost
4) Locksmiths wouldn't be able to pick them.

jkr2

A Banana? How?

Mr.DuckSauce

"A gun or a hammer is usually all of the lockpicking equipment a criminal needs." ..and you don't even need to shoot or bust the lock in that case. Just use them to intimidate the lock's owner into giving you the key.

Actual lock picking is fun, even without criminal intent. BTW, how do you use a banana, really?

Kareem King

@GeekyNerdGuy: boltcutters can chomp straight through the body of the lock...

I'm just saying, it's not pretty or elegent, but it is fast.

PЯide (Interwebz white belt)

i've been bumping into my buddies apartment for a while now - it's cool, but not the best way, as geekynerdguy has pointed out, for criminal activity.

nutbastard

@GeekyNerdGuy: I can attest that those locks are no match for an acetylene torch. Of course, the door it was protecting ended up a little crispy...! ;)

FredicvsMaximvs

@Skeptic: The problem with bumping is, if you're trying to get in and out undetected, you can't bump the door locked again. That's why if you're doing anything other than crappy B&E, you've got to know how to pick the lock.

GeekyNerdGuy

I want to learn to use a banana to pick a lock...perhaps it was a plantain?

katsushiro

This is one case where security through obscurity hasn't worked. Lock makers and locksmiths (and criminals) have known for years about the super easy and fast picking method called "bumping," but the makers have done nothing to fix the vast majority of all locks vulnerable to the technique--until now, now that the public has learned about it from lock enthusiasts.

Skeptic

wow I just had a Doctor Who flashback somehow.

br4nd0n

It actually used to be ridiculously easy to pick padlocks, deadbolts and such. They've gotten a lot harder in the last 10 years though.

Just get a little set like this: [us.st12.yimg.com]

Then throw out every pick except that one pictured top left. All you need is that one and the tensioner tool.

Instructions are all over the Internet. Get a little two-tumbler Master Lock like this to practice [www.outinstyle.com]

Once you get the feel for using the tensioner and setting the tumblers, start moving up to the 4-tumbler locks and eventually the 6-tumbler deadbolts.

If you want to protect your stuff, use a lock like this. [toolsmet.com]

I found them almost impossible to pick or pry.

GeekyNerdGuy

so what's going to happen locksmith when our lock gets replace with some high tech lock. will hackers become the new locksmith? hmmm, maybe locksmith needs to learn hacking too

UltimateIdiot

@Mondoz: I make a pretty good booger picker...

shamoononon has a hebetudinous dog

So Association of Ontario Locksmiths = RIAA?

Gann

Why don't the locksmiths hire the lockpickers?
Security firms hire hackers all the time to help improve their techniques and learn from the criminal's point of view.

Mondoz

Everybody should know how to pick a lock, shoot a gun, and change their oil.

bobdobbs

"A gun or a hammer is usually all of the lockpicking equipment a criminal needs." Actually, that's all us other folks need to keep out lock pickers.

shamoononon has a hebetudinous dog

Information is scary.

liquidsoapdispenser

@GeekyNerdGuy: @Skeptic: @FredicvsMaximvs: @nutbastard: @PЯide (Interwebz white belt):

yeah. we're all criminals here. we all know how to pick locks. super cool.

o_O

i cant wait for one of you to concoct a legitimate use.

ive got a buddy who carries lockpicks with him at all times. he thinks its great. its kinda sad. like the guy who has a 5 year old condom in his wallet, but with a criminal flavour. hes currently serving the last of a 150 hour community service for theft. really, its like he just stepped out of oceans 11.

aestheticity

I expect locksmiths to have access to replacement parts and suppliers that I wouldn't easily be able to find. For instance, in my 100-year old house there are many very old locks. A good locksmith can rebuild one of them and fabricate the internal pieces with little effort.

pdok

@bobdobbs: Crap: I learned how to change a lock, pick a gun, and shoot my oil....

Mandatory_Field

@aestheticity: A legitimate use? Any time you would need a locksmith.

Why pay someone else to do something you can do yourself? Not that I know how to pick locks, but really, it doesn't take much imagination.

Ghede

@Mandatory_Field: lol

shamoononon has a hebetudinous dog

@aestheticity: Legitimate use.. Okay. I've had friends call me when they've been locked out of their house and didn't HAVE the $60+ to get a locksmith to pick their lock.. I've had friends call me to get me into their cars.

Seems pretty legit to me. I carry my picks with me most of the time because things HAPPEN in the real world.

SMSDHubbard

@GeekyNerdGuy: That round padlock you linked to at the end of your comment.. I can pick that particular lock in about 10 seconds. Takes a ton of tension, though.

SMSDHubbard

This is why my house has a push-button lock. Although, in all honesty, I don't know if that's really any safer against someone who really wants to get in my house.

ekirsch

@aestheticity:

i don't agree with the 'legitimate use' argument.

First of all, doing something interesting is in and of it self a legitimate use

beyond that the need for a legitimate reason to do anything that does not harm anyone is non existent. no one need justify the whys and wherefores of their daily, harmless activities. this IS still America, right?

nutbastard

It's possible to be a locksmith AND a geek, of course.

Torley

@SMSDHubbard:

ok. yeah. locksmiths. you need those often. to get into your house/garage/car you locked yourself out of often. you may also need help putting on your padded helmet and guiding you away from naked flames. i locked myself out my first apartment once right after moving in when my hot neighbour practically threw herself at me. i feel i was allowed that one mistake - i was a dumbass kid and she really was a very hot neighbour, french, big tits. it never happened again across many homes and even if it had ive always made provision, as i was advised by everyone older and wiser around me at the time.

we're talking about repeatedly picking locks to get back into your own house and car and you want to quote 'real world' at me. try this one on; in the real world, real people dont keep locking themselves out of their own shit. go ahead, ask around in that real world, outside of your... interesting group of friends who require saving from their own stupidity on a regular basis. its a fucking good job youre there for them or your local locksmith would have a client list.

bullshit. fantasy. thus i refute your attempt at legitimacy.

aestheticity

I've used a pipe wrench to open a locked door once. Worked better than I though it would. I was just going to twist off the handle and force the latch from the inside, ended up pulling the latch as well. We were going to have to replace the set anyway, no one had a spare key.

Barry99705

Same here, locked myself out once, then the dude from pick-my-lock-pretty-please-company did it in 5 seconds and charged me 90 euro for it while talking about his little lockpicker club. So a few weeks later I could do it myself (have not tested my skillz in real life yet, fortunately)

j05hu4

I'm a general contractor, and carry a set of picks w/ me, in my buis, it comes up all the time.

jkr2

where can you learn to open a safe with a stethoscope and cracking your knuckles alot?

mozzer76

prohibiting the possession of lockpicking tools is tantamount to censoring knowledge and restricting opportunities for expanding knowledge. nor should possession of lockpicks in connection with criminal activity in any way affect the sentencing involved. why should a guy who's clean about it get more time than a guy who threw a brick through a window as a means of entry?

nutbastard

@aestheticity: Very funny!

I thought a locksmith was like a notary, in that it isn't necessarily his/her main source of income.

SuperCollider

@nutbastard: is that a madlib? can i fill in uzis, crack-cocaine and whores in there somewhere?

Paradise

@aestheticity: Locksmiths are so cute.

junyo

@aestheticity:

Does anybody need a grease man?

mergedwarrior

@nutbastard: lots of things that are interesting are illegal. and many of those dont potentially involve breaking and entering. and note, my original post was in response to a series of boasts of practical techniques, not the intellectual richness of lock mechanisms and the joy of knowledge. i didnt mention prohibiting anything.

in fact maybe ill go and buy a set tomorrow and learn to use them myself. except im honest enough to admit i would be planning to use them to illegally break and enter, for theft or possibly rape or arson, rather than some sort of esoteric mental discipline. and you know what? i dont think i would be the first.

aestheticity

@nutbastard: Speaking of which, why aren't bricks illegal yet?!?

bpapa9013

@GeekyNerdGuy: Yeah, I have had numerous people recommend those kind of locks, in fact I have like 5 of em, I use them for everything I need to chain up like my bicycle, scooter, girlfriend, ex-girlfriend, etc. They have yet to fail me in any way.

Have you heard about Almax chains? Dunno if you have any interest in chains (maybe ur just lock-picker) not so much a tie down enthusiast. Check them out, they'll stand up to a 42" bolt-cutter.
[www.almax-security-chains.co.uk]

bpapa9013

@aestheticity: I locked myself out of my car 2 times last month. Prior to that, I never locked myself out ever. I had AAA so they unlocked my car for free, but I would have much rathered to do it myself than wait 1-1.5 hours in a parking lot at night.

geowrian

I used to carry a set of lock picks, but then I locked them in my car...

atomx

*is fun and interesting

ps61318

My dad always says "Locks are made to keep out honest people." If someone wants in, they are getting in. The vast majority of thieves will break a window or pry a door, I think, as opposed to taking the time to be subtle. I mean, what for? A little noise?

I do agree that knowing how to pick locks if fun and interesting. And very geeky.

Furthermore, why can't Jews be kept in jail? Because we eat lox! Ah, hahahahahahah.

Thank you, please tip your mohel, try the veal.

ps61318

@nutbastard: Seriously! I'd say the guy who used the brick should get more time simply for being rude and messy, and add a vandalism charge on top. At least the guy who picked the lock was neat about the B&E.

There isn't a lock made (well, so far as I've seen, which is plenty) that is truly unbeatable. Locks of any type (door, car, padlock, ID & password for your network or ATM card, etc) only inhibit theft or entry, not stop it. They keep out the honest folks who might otherwise be tempted and the riff-raff who don't know any better. But a real criminal with intent and skill? He (or she) is in.

A banana? I'd like to see that! It's hard enough to believe my friend and I used two sheets of paper once (except I was obviously there and did it myself), but a banana would be interesting. Video? Please? :)

@bobdobbs: Much like my favorite quote of all:
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
If you replace 'write a sonnet' with 'write a haiku', then I hit the entire list. Well, I can't be sure about 'die gallantly' yet. I'll probably scream like a baby.

hnkelley

@aestheticity: So because I know how to hotwire any 2-stroke motorcycle/scooter I am ipso facto a motorcycle/scooter theif?

I'm a big fan of the esoteric value of understanding (theory & practice) almost anything mechanical, that doesn't mean that I am lying about my motives... Any why would locks be any different, there are plenty of legitimate uses for the skill of lock picking. The only thing that can makes picking a lock illegal is not having the permission of the lock owner to pick it...

bpapa9013

@hnkelley: certain key pad locks are stronger than the hinges, and not pickable, same goes for some card entry locks. But anybody could use a blow torch, but I wouldn't call that picking. We could even go as far a bank vault doors, for all intents and purposes, unbreakable.

jkr2

@aestheticity: I'm gonna go with you on this one because you are mostly correct and no one else is.

ezman

@aestheticity: And yes.. I do get a call about once a month from someone who needs my help. I have NEVER used my skills to break the law. I'm not a thief.

You've never looked at something like a lock and wondered how it works and how it can be manipulated? I have two guesses about you. Let's see which is right.

1. You're a locksmith and you don't like being made to look like a fool.

2. You have no concept of curiosity or wonder. I certainly hope you're not an engineer.

SMSDHubbard

@aestheticity: "im honest enough to admit i would be planning to use them to illegally break and enter, for theft or possibly rape or arson"

You'd be a rapist and arsonist were it not for locks???

SMSDHubbard

Theory on the banana: (and I made the assumption it was a key lock). Take a banana, not overly ripe so its still pretty firm, and squish a piece of it into the lock, then insert a small piece of metal (or whatever), forcing the banana mush into the grooves, enough to fool the lock into thinking its a key, and use the piece of metal to turn the lock.
(Just a wild-ass-guess theory as I am not an engineer or a criminal, just very curious.)

Curves

@aestheticity: Isn't it easier to socially engineer your way into a situation you can get the right keys?

Rodime

Does anyone protect the window breaking skill? If people learned how to break windows we'd all be in trouble...

hagrun

I find a combination of a few sticks of dynamite, a battering ram, and an M1-A Abrams tank will get me through pretty much any door.

OMG! Ponies!

@bobdobbs

don't forget the 100 chest x-rays that we can withstand every year... we outta have em too.

dOk

@dOk: Dude, you get 100 chest x-rays annually? What the hell do you do for a living? I've had like 3 in my life.

Geisrud

@OMG! Ponies!: A flat head axe and a haligan and I defeat most doors. The ones I can't are even easier and don't require those tools.

Geisrud

@Geisrud: He's looking for winning scratch-off lottery tickets. If the x-ray shows that it's a loser, he rushes back to the store and exchanges it. Repeat until rich, or dead of various cancers.

ps61318

@ekirsch: My understanding is that push-button locks are one of the lowest security devices out there. They're mostly just a deterrent rather than an access denial system.

A few years ago, there was an "incident" at a University of Wisconsin campus where a bunch of students got hold of some professors' keys and treated them as encryption clues to find and cut the master key for the entire campus. I can't seem to find an online reference though, sorry.

Go Geeks!

Ben Zvan

@Geisrud: Yes, but the battering ram is fun to use and a good upper-body workout and the dynamite and tank both go boom in hundreds of ways that a flathead screwdriver does not.

OMG! Ponies!

@Geisrud: They do a chest X-ray on you every time you get arrested to check if you have TB before putting you in with the general population.

GeekyNerdGuy

@GeekyNerdGuy: ...and you know this because...?

ps61318

@GeekyNerdGuy: Are you implying that dOk gets arrested 100 times per year?

Geisrud

@OMG! Ponies!: Flat head axe - not screwdriver. thus a good upper-body workout as well, not to mention perhaps more available than yer average stick-o-dynomite.

Geisrud

@GeekyNerdGuy:

"By the way, if you ever do go to jail, and you think you'll have it easier by saying that you're gay, DON'T. You DO NOT want to be on the gay floor/area."

thanks for the heads up! i just hope you didn't find that out the hard way.

nutbastard

@ps61318: When I first started my career, I was on the crime beat for a while. Learened more than I ever thought there was to know about our legal system -- as well as experiencing some things first hand that I wish I could forget.

By the way, if you ever do go to jail, and you think you'll have it easier by saying that you're gay, DON'T. You DO NOT want to be on the gay floor/area.

GeekyNerdGuy

@Geisrud:I don't read so good. And while the axe will allow you to go all The Shining on someone, showing up on someone's doorstep with a tank is WAAAAAY cooler.

Thanks. Now I have my prank for next year's April Fool's.

OMG! Ponies!

@nutbastard: Thankfully, I was in the pods, not the cells.

GeekyNerdGuy

the pods? you mean the Penis Or Dildo Section?

nutbastard

@OMG! Ponies!: For the record, you weren't wrong in your statement - flat-head screwdrivers also don't go boom in a hundred ways as a tank or dynamite do.

If they do, however, and they're Craftsman, just return them to Sears for a no-questions-asked replacement!

'Course the same might be true of the axe...

ramblin man....

ps61318

@nutbastard: ROFL

I always wondered what that meant!

Does kind of give a new appreciation for Invasion of the Body Snatchers, though...

ps61318

@aestheticity: I've legitimately picked locks, my teacher had an enclosure with some home automation modules in it and lost the key.

Oracle989

@Curves: ...and that's very oddly stimulating...

ps61318

@katsushiro: Was it an African or European banana?

@SMSDHubbard: "I carry my picks with me most of the time because things HAPPEN in the real world."

Is that a felony or just a misdemeanor?

@aestheticity: "i was a dumbass kid and she really was a very hot neighbour, french, big tits"

Have I wandered into Penthouse Letters? All those stories are real, too!

@Paradise: "can i fill in uzis, crack-cocaine and whores in there somewhere?"

Yes, you can. Welcome to Libertarian Land, where pretty much everything is legal, as long as you don't harm another.

@SMSDHubbard: "You'd be a rapist and arsonist were it not for locks???"

Apparently.

@Curves: That's just crazy enough to work!

@GeekyNerdGuy: "You DO NOT want to be on the gay floor/area."

That's just common sense. If you want to avoid something...

GadgetPlay

I'm both a locksmith and a nerd. Hummm! My thoughts: Anyone can hack a computer and anyone can pick a standard pin tumbler lock. Kwickset, Schlage, Wiser, Falcon and Arrow, just to name a few. All make inexpensive locks. The tolerances do not meet the same standards of heavy duty lock and the market has turned to pick resistant locks. This doesn't mean it can't be defeated, it just takes longer.

I'm curious as to what you are picking? Is there a lock you haven't picked? What automobiles locks can you pick? Chevy, Ford and Dodge. All manufactures aren't the same and don't all use the same specifications. So, what you think might be hard is really simple. Take the disk padlock by ABUS. They have the simple version and they have the not so simple version. Try picking a master padlock and then pick an American padlock. You are less likely to pick the American lock. I would love to tell you why but you have all the data.

Do I mind that you pick locks! no! I don't agree with the fact you make it sound so simple and easy. I agree that there are many cheap locks out there and chances are you have one on your door. So, if you think your good then challenge yourself and try picking the following. Medeco, ASSA, Schlage Primus, Dom and Abloy. The list goes on but if you are picking any of these then you are good and I will shut my mouth. If you want a smaller challenge then try picking a 1986+ 10 cut ford ignition or any chevy prior to 1984.

locksmithnerd

I'd like to know who these people are who constantly lock themselves out, and forget to carry a spare key, yet remember to carry a set of lock picks.

The old fashioned way of social interaction--build a good relationship with your neighbors--will provide you with a ready source of a spare key, should you need one.

pilotj

Good gravy! There are too many people here who actually pick locks and think it is physically possible to pick a lock with a BANANA! I was under the impression the author was using hyperbole. Oh well.

whiteknight

HOLY CRAP IT WORKS!!!!

I just unlocked my iPhone with a Banana.

CribbageLeft

The banana thing was with the fibrous, tough stem at the top. I've only read a little bit about lockpicking once or twice and I read that.

baglunch

@aestheticity: "bullshit. fantasy. thus i refute your attempt at legitimacy"

Obviously since you've got your mind made up about this there's no way to sway you. Fortunately YOU don't get the final say. If I want to know how to pick locks I can. I don't need to explain myself to YOU, sir.

Bruce_A

Here is a link to the youtube video of Digital_Blue from LP101 picking a lock with a banana.

+ Watch video

freakparade3

To geekynerdguy. The first lock you listed has 4 pins, not 2. It is the recommended started lock for most people however. The last lock you listed as "almost impossible" to pick it actually very easy to pick once you get the amount of tension correct.

freakparade3