Robots
New Yorker: Why We Won't Have Fully Conversational Robots
Posted by Adrian Covert at 9:50 AM on June 25, 2008
John Seabrook wrote a recent feature in The New Yorker about interactive-voice-response systems (I.V.R.) commonly used with customer service and tech support telephone hotlines. Seabrook spent time at B.B.N. Technologies watching these systems transcribe callers' words and analysing the tone of voice for emotions present. While breaking down the history of automated telephone services and voice recognition innovations, he attempts to tackle the larger question of whether or not we can create a fully conversational, quasi-conscious robot, akin to 2001: A Space Odyssey's Hal 9000. Judging from the number of experts interviewed for the piece, the answer is a resounding no.
- While machines that could accurately reproduce the sound of human speech, such as Wolfgang von Kempelen's talking head, have been around since the late 1700s, no device has been able to learn the syntactical rules necessary for generating conversation.
- Secondly, the act of hearing and interpreting is more difficult to instill in a machine because of the on-the-fly signal processing that would be required. The complexity of the ear allows it to pick up on the most subtle nuances in sound (according to the article, people can distinguish between hot and cold coffee just by hearing it poured into a glass.
- Roger Schank is a philosopher-programmer who has spent his professional life trying to create a conscious computer that not only has a memory, but can also learn. After years in the field, Schank is skeptical it will ever happen. He says replicating idle chatter and the sheer complexity of speech in general is beyond the abilities of current scientists.
- Steven Pinkner, a Harvard cognitive scientist, says that natural speech could rely on the breadth of one's knowledge, which is "extraordinarily difficult" to endow to a computer.
- R&D efforts in speech recognition began in the 1950s and '60s, but researchers are still hung up on the number of ways to communicate the word yes. Speech engineers for Nuance found that Southerners in the U.S. tend to add "sir" or "ma'am" to responses where as Northerners do not. And "Valley Girl" speak tends to make computers interpret declarative statements as questions.
- Finding it difficult to make a computer able to "learn," scientists turned to brute-force computing and algorithms that relied upon mass amounts of data. But in 1969, high-ranking Bell Labs staffer John Pierce wrote that a speech machine that could recognise, but not understand, was utterly pointless.
- The big emphasis on speech recognition has now moved to emotional analysis, which still uses algorithms to estimate a caller's state of mind. Stanford researcher Elizabeth Shriberg says its impossible to compare emotions in acted speech to emotions in real speech. The escalation of anger, for example, happens in smaller, more subtle increments with authentic speech.
- The most promising breakthrough in emotional recognition is an agression detector that has been deployed through out parts of Europe. Sound Intelligence were able to recreate the processes of the inner ear on a computer, which spawned a device that could learn the sounds of different objects in action and identify them. The Dutch city of Groningen has placed this technology in its pubs, where if it detects excessively aggressive speech in the pub, it will alert the nearest police station. But as Seabrook comments, "This is no HAL."
- Other research labs, like the Speech Analysis and Interpretation Laboratory, have turned to facial recognition to glean emotional insight, but have come up dry. "Emotions aren't discrete," lab chief Shrikanth Narayanan told the New Yorker. "They are a continuum, and it isnt clear to any one perceiver where one emotion ends and the other begins." To add insult to injury, there hasn't been any real demand for emotional recognition outside the call centre arena.
So while we might not ever see a robot become a Nobel Laureate, there is one lession to be learned from this New Yorker piece — never talk freely while on hold with customer service. Seabrook learned while at B.B.N. Technologies that they still record the call while you're on hold to assess your emotional state. After a profanity-laced tirade, one annoyed caller took a couple of hits from his bong, waited a little longer, and hung up. [The New Yorker]

Comments (AU Comments · US Comments)
There are currently no AU comments for this post.
livinzlife
Posted 10:31 AM 25/6/08
"people can distinguish between hot and cold coffee just by hearing it poured into a glass."
Well I can tell you its cold coffee without hearing just by knowing its going into a glass. Hot coffee isnt served in glasses..
There is hope!
livinzlife
logikgr
Posted 10:31 AM 25/6/08
These scientists are probably tired of being asked the same question, over and over again. The kind of, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"
Scientist: There will NEVER be fully conversational robots! Okay?! Now let me get back to work.
:-)
logikgr
JayD16
Posted 10:11 AM 25/6/08
You should never say never. Especially with something like this. If humans can do it then it's not impossible.
JayD16
ripfire
Posted 10:02 AM 25/6/08
Bah! Just use the brute force method: duplicate the human brain cell by cell with silicon.
ripfire
towlie420
Posted 10:00 AM 25/6/08
Thats Right!!! I don't want no sex bot givin' me no lip unless it's the good kind.
towlie420
Nintenboy01
Posted 11:06 AM 25/6/08
We just need to develop POSITRONIC BRAINZ. Or maybe create organic computers/cyborgs much like Mother Brain or RoboCop.
Nintenboy01
Aaron Stein
Posted 10:57 AM 25/6/08
though the fact that they are silly to call it impossible, does not in itself make it possible either. wait... its the same with god. OMG!!
Aaron Stein
jesusdiaz
Posted 10:56 AM 25/6/08
If humanity had stop every time a group of scientists and experts said that something was impossible, we would still communicating by letter, travelling by horse, and building with wood, stone and clay.
If that.
jesusdiaz
Aaron Stein
Posted 10:55 AM 25/6/08
i wish i had a nickel for everything scientists of a given time said was impossible...
Aaron Stein
Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!
Posted 10:41 AM 25/6/08
This is sort of a Dr. Moreau problem. We can craft all sorts of amazing (and terrible) things, but we still don't understand what makes the mind work. We know about all of the Freudian gobbledegook, synaptic hoopla and cerebral shenanigans, but we don't know what actually makes a human being, so how would we be able to take a difference engine and make something linear become completely random and abstract? Human beings are scatterbrains with fuzzy memory, biases and an imagination that can make wild interpretations and alterations to our supposed reality. It would be a hell of a feat to get something like that out of a pile of circuits. That's not to say that it's impossible, but I don't see one being able to fully recreate sentience until sentience is fully understood.
Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!
UniComp
Posted 11:37 AM 25/6/08
I think we should just all learn computer languages.
UniComp
junyo
Posted 11:34 AM 25/6/08
The good news is I should be able to out smart an computer during my lifetime by telling a naughty limerick then laughing maniacally while pouring a cup of lukewarm tea.
junyo
towlie420
Posted 12:00 PM 25/6/08
I took a class in A.I. at college. Great Course! Neural Networks were not random. They were a mesh of computers that acted kind of like neurons the connections between them(imitation synapses) would be weighted depending on weather the user decided the output is good/bad. Good question though! Whatever happened to Neural Network research? Last I heard they had one that could drive a car. That was 10 years ago!
towlie420
GadgetPlay
Posted 11:55 AM 25/6/08
It may be impossible for us right now, but so, at one time, were many things we take for granted today. Whatever happened to the neural net research where they essentially had random connections that "learned" much as biological ones do?
GadgetPlay
kiwizz
Posted 12:10 PM 25/6/08
Im with Jay - Never say never, thats just stupid.
kiwizz
IamNotToddDavis
Posted 12:06 PM 25/6/08
I still can't believe the UK sent up Skynet already. I mean, they really named it Skynet and everything?
[gizmodo.com]
IamNotToddDavis
doobiebros22
Posted 1:29 PM 25/6/08
Its been done.
Its name is K.I.T.T.
doobiebros22
MINI Driver
Posted 1:24 PM 25/6/08
I've seen it - it's rubbish....
MINI Driver
mkant
Posted 2:25 PM 25/6/08
A lot of those examples are from the 50s and 60s. There has been a lot of progress since then. There are no easy effective solutions -- solving this problem will require a lot of hard work for many decades. (I speak from experience, as the inventor of the first patent concerning affect analysis.)
mkant
strider_mt2k
Posted 2:02 PM 25/6/08
@jesusdiaz: A witch!
burn him!
strider_mt2k
adamator
Posted 1:52 PM 25/6/08
@junyo: lol, nice.
adamator
skierpage
Posted 3:39 PM 25/6/08
@Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!: As I understand it, Ray Kurzweil's idea is we make nano-sensors, map the half-quadrillion synapses connecting the 100 billion neurons in your brain, and then model that on high-performance computer hardware. Done. You turn it on and it's like Dixie Flatline in Neuromancer, "I'm Kaiser, wassup? Hey, what happened to my arms?" No AI breakthrough or understanding of sentience required, just 10-30 more years of steady advances in sensors and computers.
Right now it's an armchair epistemological argument for philosophers whether this approach will deliver consciousness. But we already have supercomputers modeling substantial groups of neurons like the IBM/EPFL Blue Brain project (10,000 neurons, with about 30 million synaptic connections between them), so we should get some evidence.
skierpage
jmprado
Posted 3:44 PM 25/6/08
Answer me Hal...
jmprado
MINI Driver
Posted 3:43 PM 25/6/08
Pardon me for breathing, which I never do any way so I don't know why I bother to say it, oh God, I'm so depressed
MINI Driver
Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!
Posted 4:47 PM 25/6/08
@skierpage: Like I said, not impossible, it's just a matter of executing our understanding.
Or maybe I'm just out of my flippin' gourd.
Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!
Dynastius
Posted 5:17 PM 25/6/08
@Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!: Yeah, actually it's not necessary for us to have thorough understanding of sentience to recreate it. When the Wright Brothers successfully created the first powered flight at Kittyhawk, they didn't understand the intricacies of aerodynamics. They understood lift and drag of course, but as for the finer details of how and why different shapes were more effective at getting what they wanted, no, they didn't have that level of understanding. And an understanding of what was going on at the molecular level? Not even close.
There are MANY examples like this and some even more dramatic where we have built technology that works but don't really have comprehension of the details of HOW it works. Scientists STILL are unsure of how so-called "high temperature" superconductors work. There are several competing theories on how they function, none of which has been proven. (They don't work like standard superconductors at near absolute zero is the only thing we know for sure.)
At this point, we can't even say for sure how fine a level of detail of understanding is necessary to create something that can converse in a convincingly human-like manner. In other words, we don't know what we don't know...yet.
So...we could have human level conversational robots in 5 years, in 50 years, or in 500 years. But it's very unlikely that we will never have them unless something globally catastrophic happens. Sooner or later, humanity will figure out how to do EVERYTHING that can be done in nature. (Not to mention all the things we already figured out and continue to figure out that nature cannot do.)
Dynastius
Barfolemew
Posted 7:33 PM 25/6/08
"Valley Girl" speak tends to make computers interpret declarative statements as questions.
That's because to a genre of people who know absolutely nothing, everything IS a question.
Barfolemew
vpenro
Posted 12:41 PM 25/6/08
Science is known to make leaps and bounds. I believe the ability to give a computer the ability to have an authentic conversation both humbling and empowering at the same time. But I don't think anyone living now or in the next twenty years is going to be alive when computers will be able to talk like us.
vpenro
mikes603
Posted 11:01 AM 25/6/08
There is a huge difference between a logical impossibility and a practical impossibility. The points in the article all argue towards a practical impossibility--which is an argument inherently tied to the times.
An argument such as Searle's 'Chinese Room' argument would refute the logical possibility of 'Strong AI'. To bad Searle's argument is a heap of steaming crap [see Sweat Dreams by Dennett].
mikes603
G2GdoB2B
Posted 1:01 AM 26/6/08
That's a pretty bold statement. I think that right now we can't but I expect robot companions in the future (at least in my generation)
Check this article in [www.internetevolution.com] about "Robot Personalities", how emotional bonding could happen, etc.
G2GdoB2B
HeartBurnKid
Posted 1:40 AM 26/6/08
Never say never. It may not happen as fast as everybody thinks it will, but it will happen, mark my words.
HeartBurnKid
Pender
Posted 2:25 AM 26/6/08
This is dumb. The brain is already a physical device. To suggest that we'll never be able to create a similar physical device is ridiculous.
Pender
nutbastard
Posted 2:49 AM 26/6/08
And it is in this way that robots will always be just a little cooler than women.
(i kid!)
(there's like, 3 more ways!)
(I KID!)
nutbastard
Thunderdome
Posted 4:56 AM 26/6/08
I'm speechless that people still find the nerve to say something is impossible. They might as well be saying, "hey...I'm too naive and little to look past my own intelligence."
Here are some notable quotes that keep popping into my head.
"The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible."
Arthur C. Clarke
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C. Clarke
"At the present rate of progress, it is almost impossible to imagine any technical feat that cannot be achieved - if it can be achieved at all - within the next few hundred years."
Arthur C. Clarke
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."
Arthur C. Clarke
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."
Alan Kay
"The chief obstacle to the progress of the human race is the human race."
Don Marquis
"Where facts are few, experts are many."
Donald R. Gannon
"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done."
Peter Ustinov
Thunderdome
-Core-
Posted 10:34 AM 26/6/08
It sounds like there not aiming for a robot, but a human..*sighs*
What the need to do is create something more akin to a .. P.D.A ? A computer that maybe you give to a kid at a young age, and like a pet, it learns what the kid wants, and then trys to meet those needs. It's not necessarily a friend, but a great helper/aid? Or something to bounce ideas off of. And as it goes on.. it would gain if nothing else, personality traits from the person it was with?
In the end we have not crystal ball. So I will just go with the "I bet it will happen, its only a matter of time".
Thought this relatively intelligent A.I/bot... may end up coming from China or Japan...
I personally do believe that it will happen. Look at all the technology that we have today. Its just a matter of time and will, and well a whole lot of money chances are.
-Core-
dezinewiz
Posted 3:04 PM 26/6/08
* YOUR JOBS-IAN
dezinewiz
dezinewiz
Posted 3:02 PM 26/6/08
Apple Computer to the rescue, anyone?
O.K. - if those genius' can out do the planet with cell phones, music players, etc.., than surely this "outside of the box" thinking can lend itself beautifully (and for the end user, VERY simplistically) to the world of robotics?
Sony was amazing at the AIBO/QRIO project. While a "failure" in terms of economy (potentially), QRIO could speak a conversation worth 15,000 words. If that isn't advancement, I don't know what is! It is VERY sad that Sony's research has resulted in a stupid egg! :-D
And, we now have HONDA picking it up with ASIMO. Trouble there - the dang thing hasn't been released to the public for reasons only HONDA knows.
So, Apple, CUT TO THE CHASE!!
BEG! BORROW! STEAL!! :-D SIGN CONTRACTS!! EMPLOY YOURN JOBS-IAN TYPE TAKE OVER TACTICS AND GET US A PROPER iRobot!! :-D
And, what would be extremely amazing with this is that such a bot would integrate perfectly with all other Apple devices currently on the market. Just look at the trends!
Simple. Elegant. Would work it's way into our lives as smoothly as other Apple products. And, it would be cost effective, because, well, we now have a $49 iPod. :-D
Mr. Wiz Out!
dezinewiz
001
Posted 4:14 PM 26/6/08
i didnt read the article, but of course marvin is not fully conversational, he's a pain to converse with.
But it's ok, i like my robots surly, it reminds me that i'm the boss.
001