I'm surprised the browser is so bad. Isn't it based on WebKit?

itchytooth

Opera Mobile 9.5 will be available for S60. Don't forget that a Nokia E-series phone can be tethered with one click. Try that with your iPhone.

DaveBSC

And full English has a point: lets not get too hung up on the US market. Sure, Giz's writers are American, but not all the readers are.

Ypoknons

The S60 browser does do Flash.

Ypoknons

Maybe if you stop thinking tooo much about the iphone you may give your self the chance to play with the phone two or three days and understand and appreciate the phone better.

about the menues been buried deep, its the same as having tons of apps on your iPhone or ipod touch. The amount of time you have to press forward to reach an app could be the same amount to go into an office folder and selecting for example Quickoffice on the e66

I Have an E90 and i absolutely love it and having been selling the iPhone for O2 and loaning it out for 2 weeks, it would be very hard for me as an E90 user to switch.
will be missing, recording my lectures with Alonmp3recorder then sending the recording to my Mac mini via bluetooth, keyboard, podcasting etc...

I Blame Nokia for not releasing any unsubsedised handsets in the country that has the biggest coverage in term of tech media.

Its like when it come to the mobile industry the U.S in on a different planet. The U.S mobile industry is soo different to the Europ and the rest of the world. Unfortunatly some American Analists never take their time to research properly the mobile industry outside the U.S, otherwise they would come out with stupid claims such as apple dominating the moibile phone market like the mp3 market in 5 to 10 years.

The cellphone industry is not like the mp3 industry, its far too divers and there are too many players in the game.

Q Xperia 1, Android, WM etc...

All i have to say is, as a mobile phone junkie i cant wait for the comming months and years both for services and hardware. For the hardware front, i must say thanks to apple for letting the Major players speed up their plans. However i must say comming from a nation where even 10 yeras old expect every phone to have file transfer bluetooth to send their pictures and video to their fellow friends, Apple has a fair bit to go in terms of functionality. A lot of people have came back to the store complaning that thire bluetooth on the Iphone does not work.

END OF ESSAY

The Full English Please!!

@Ypoknons: Agreed. But, any American (mostly) based blog will be American-biased to some degree. There's no escaping it.

Full English does make a valid pt which I have been keeping pent in as well (I live in the US, but have seen better in the world of mobile phones). Mobile phone tech in the US is still far from even coming close. Why is it taking so long? What the carriers had to do was waste time securing customers. Now that most people have mobiles and even more have them over landlines, now carriers will thrust high-end phones at US customers. US customers will salivate over these phones after looking back at their crappy subsized phones (ex: Most Verizon customers get free cheap ugly near functionless devices aside from calling feature).

The iPhone looks evolutionary compared to what MOST average US customers already have. Most people who are not gadgetheads like us won't know about the great phone tech with rich features that are now the defacto standard in Europe and Asia, hence they only know what they know.

The Sidekick is definitely NOT a high-end phone. It relies on the "cool/hip" factor to gain sales - much like the iPhone. Thus, the recent survey that said that the iPhone will not get many switchers in Japan will most likely bode true.

CutePuppyz

The reference to the iPhone 3G at the end lost any small credibility that was there in the beginning.

Lame.

mobilehavoc

it looks like a great phone and its made by nokia but i can never have a phone without a qwerty keypad or a touchscreen again

RBF05

@Ypoknons: Not all the Giz writers are American.

LJN

@mobilehavoc: Awww, that's just sour grapes talking, ever since you blew your money on an N95. Truth is, the E66 is going head to head with the iPhone whether you like it or not, and it's $300 more expensive. This isn't fanboy economics... it's just economics.

Wilson Rothman

I have the iPhone and I've worked for Verizon. Full English does have a point, I'll reiterate. The problem is that it's going to be hard to wean the US customers off of subsidized handsets. $500 is obscene for a mobile device in the US. And with the dollar and the economy the way it is, few Americans are going to want to spring for a phone that costs a third of their rent payment.

The problem also in America is that two of the largest carriers use CDMA, a technology that the rest of the world rejected because it was too expensive. Few manufacturers (for instance, Nokia) want to go through the trouble of making decent CDMA phones when the carriers that use them will just make them cripple all the extra functionality.

Customers aren't educated and few Americans know what a SIM card is.

I love Nokia's phones. And I will agree that the iPhone's extra featuers don't even come close to Nokia's. I love my iPhone, but I sure as hell would like to tether. And don't get me started on Apple's gimped Bluetooth stack. I am in full agreement that iPhone users give up a lot.

markarian

I'm confused. Why is everyone comparing the subsidized price of the iPhone to the un-subsidized price of Nokia devices like this one? Why isn't even the writer pointing out that the two are different prices?

The iPhone 3G costs 499 EUR (=780 USD) in Italy for the cheaper model - unsubsidized. We don't have the unsubsidized price in the USA because AT&T has a monopoly on it, but still that gives us a ballpark figure that you should compare the 500 USD of the Nokia E66 against. Not the SUBSIDIZED 199 USD!

If you want to compare to the subsidized price of the iPhone then you have to compare against the subsidized price of the Nokia E66 with similar contract terms (lenght of contract, services included, monthly fee). E.g. pick a carrier that has both.

I know many writers and readers on Gizmodo are in the USA, but lots are also outside the USA and this device isn't aimed at the USA - it's GLOBAL. The USA is just a tiny market for Nokia and the success or failure of the device will have very little to do with whether American carriers will subsidize this one or not. So please talk about the issue in the context it is really in: global.

Kim98

@Kim98: Your confusion confuses me. Say you have $500 in your pocket, and you have to buy a phone. Would you a) buy a phone for $200, knowing you'll full well have to pay some kind of monthly plan going forward? Or b) blow all $500 on a phone with more or less the same features, knowing full well you'll STILL have to pay each month for the service?

Subsidies are only painful when you want to use the phone on another service (and your chosen provider doesn't offer the same model). Both of these phones would by definition be used on AT&T in the US—as a mostly American editorial team, this has to be our primary frame of reference. But even outside the US, the situation looks like it will be similar.

Wilson Rothman

@Wilson Rothman: But, you may end up spending all of that $500 on an iPhone, if you're with AT&T and don't qualify for an upgrade. Only people new to AT&T or who already have an iPhone get the good deal.

If you really wanted a subsidized E66, you could sign up for a 3G iPhone, buy an E66 at full price and then sell the iPhone.

itchytooth

Sorry for the double post - it appeared as if the site had tossed me out and the post didn't appear.

Kim98

@Wilson Rothman:

You missed the point completely. I would go with option c, buy the Nokia E66 for 30 euros rather than the iPhone for 199 euros from a carrier than has both and subsidizes both equally. So for me the supposed 500 USD (unsubsidized Nokia E66) vs. 199 USD (subsidized iPhone) is a totally false comparison as it assumes I can't buy a Nokia E66 subsidized.

While I know it's hard for Americans to comprehend, they only represent about 5% of the world's population and about 10% of the mobile phone market (including that of Nokia). That's why I'm confused why people are speculating about the success or failure of a device based on that tiny and highly un-advantageous situation for this device. As if everyone in the world has to make the choice between an subsidized Nokia E66 vs. a subsidized iPhone.

Kim98

@Wilson Rothman:
I would go with the obvious option c) that you left out: I would go with the $30 subsidized Nokia E66 from a carrier that subsidizes it, which is tons of carriers *OUTSIDE THE USA*.

If I was in the USA then it's of course a non-issue, but like I stressed: the Nokia E66 is a global phone for a global market and we are reading this on the global Internet. So why are we using the worst-case comparison against the device - comparing its non-subsidized price agianst the subsidized price of the iPhone?!

I don't live in the USA, I couldn't care less whether carries in the USA subsidize it or not so the $199 USD for iPhone vs. $500 USD for E66 is a totally false comparison for me. If I buy the device I will - of course - get it for a subsidized much cheaper price than the 500 USD listed or the 199 USD for an iPhone. It will be more like 199 EUR for iPhone vs. 30 EUR for Nokia E66 for me.

The article makes it seem like the Nokia E66 is more expensive than the iPhone when in reality it is cheaper. The only time it is more expensive is if you only compare in the USA - a market that represents less than 10% of the global market for mobile phones and less than 5% for Nokia.

Kim98

I have the E61i and I decided to change my web browser to Opera Mini. Some of the time the Nokia's browser (is it.. Safari-based??) can't load the pages completely, i.e. just hangs somewhere between loading 700kB and 1MB, and sometimes it crashes (but these new E-series phones have more RAM and MHz, so they're probably a lot more stable).

Plus, when the page is loading you cannot smoothly scroll around the page but have to wait until the page has finished loading - if it ever does that. Also the loading 'architecture' or what is it - sometimes after almost a minute or more of waiting the browser has loaded a page without CSS and just when you think you're going to be able to start browsing the page the screen goes blank and the browser starts formatting the page using the CSS stylesheet. Very frustrating..

But, I'm only talking about my experience on my E61i, and people with faster and more high-end phones (like N95 for example) surely have varying opinions.

KVirtanen

i GOT E65. i pay about 15$ per month for it for 36 months, when the 15$ is a rebate for calls. so i just need to talk more than 15$ worth of calls to not really paying on the phone. if i wanted to but and 1st gen iphone, and it isnt marketed here (israel), i would had to pay about 1000$ at launch, and these days its about 700$. so i m quite happy with my E65. and i m cant wait till i would upgrade to the the E67. (i upgrade one time in three years or so).

Achiron

Actually you can get high end Nokia phones subsidized in the US, you just have to know where to go *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*.

cubensis

@Achiron:
Exactly! And you can get a Nokia N95 8GB for *free* with Vodafone in the UK. A Nokia N82 is 99 EUR with T-Mobile in Germany. Those are the subsidized prices - free and 99 EUR. And the N95 8GB and N82 are both much higher end phones than this E66 so the E66 certainly won't be more expensive. That's what the 199 USD of the iPhone should be benchmarked against when it's called "cheap".

Kim98

You can rearrange the icons in the main menu however you like so there's no excuse for them to be buried in folders.

I agree, the browser needs some work. It supports multiple windows but only if the site opens them - it needs an "Open New Window" option. Yes it loads the page as a desktop browser does but then so does the iPhone. At least S60 reflows the text into a screen-wide column so it can be read without too much horizontal scrolling. And it supports a mobile view. And you can always install Opera Mini which works very well (my browser of choice at the moment).

Also, just because in the US market it costs $500 or whatever in Europe (well at least the UK) it's free, or a few quid, on a low priced contract, unlike the iPhone.

Having used Safari on an iPhone I would much rather stick with the S60 browser along with the fact that whilst it's loading a page you can always play a game - multi-tasking, something else a certain popular fruit inspired phone is unable to do.

sparx104

Ok, so this is the most one-sided review I have read in Giz. You can't evaluate a phone constantly comparing it with a totally different device. We agree that the iPhone is great, but this is a very good phone too. S60 browser is fantastic, it loads flash, video streamings have a full screen option, paragraphs are stretched for fast-browsing, etc. Also, I don't know why you complain that the page "loads just like a desktop version". I thought that this was good!

You should stop thinking in the iPhone when you write a review. As strange as it might sound, there is people that don't care about the iPhone, and find very annoying to read "screen is good, but no IPHONE GOOD. IPHONE RULEZ, THIS SUCKS" every time.

This is no more a gadget blog, now it's an iPhone blog! You should change your motto to "So much in love with iPhone, it's unnatural"!

I love to read Giz, reviews are very funny, and I really love the titles, but phone reviews have become less reliable every day.

Lautaro

@Lautaro: You know, when we go out of our way to NOT compare a phone, like say the Samsung Instinct, to the iPhone, we get totally screamed at. Then, when we compare a phone that, in all likelihood, is aimed straight for the same audiences as the iPhone, again, we get screamed at. Hopefully you understand that there are (at least) two sides to this whole "one-sided" debate.

Having said that, I am moving on, and will not, again, comment in this increasingly fanatical thread.

Wilson Rothman

This, my friends, is why you NEVER walk out on a comment thread.

sam_i_am

Oh.

He's gone.

sam_i_am

HEY WILSON!

*pant pant*

Sorry I'm late man, I brought you an ice cream.

sam_i_am

@Wilson Rothman: Ok, sorry if my comment sounded fanatical. Not my intention. But your comment helped my understand two things:

One: There is more that one side in this kind of discussions. Some accept arguments, some others don't. And some, like me, tends to label as fanboy too easily. My apologies if this was the case.

Two: You HAVE to compare similar phones in order to see what's better of each. But you failed not comparing the Instinct with the iPhone (a clear iPhone rival) and instead comparing this one (a business smartphone with poor multimedia capabilities wich, IMHO, is more rival with Blackberry than with the iPhone).

I hope this comment clarify my position on this debate. Have a nice day!

Lautaro

@Lautaro: Failed to compare the Instinct to the iPhone?

LJN

Since the price of Nokia E66 (bundled with an operator) is not yet known here in Finland, here is what I will pay for my E71 (which should arrive next week):
+ 24 months * 19 euros for the phone (=456 euros). The phone would be about 500 euros without the service.
+ 9,80 euros for unlimited mobile data (cheapest 384 kbit/s speed)(inc. email, net, chat etc.)
+ 0 euros monthly fee (inc. 50min/month free calls for 12 months)
+ 0,069 euros per min for calls to all providers (after the 50min/month). Same price per text message.
+ 24 month contract. The service works in the entire country. 3G is practically in all the cities that have at least 10 000 people. Edge networks cover almost the entire country. I even got an USB 3G modem and an additional 384 kbit/s unlimited mobile data service for free (for my laptop).

I would be interested to know how much you pay for your calls, text messages, mobile data in the US (and other countries) compared to me. Would the calls be more expensive, less expensive or the same without the phone? Can you use your phone in the entire country? Is there competition in your area or does AT&T etc. have monopoly?

Here in Finland you can transfer your phone number when you switch to another operator. Can you do that in your country?

The most expensive service packages for my provider costs 49,95 euros (without the phone), which includes 3000min/month of calls, 3000min/month of video calls, 3000 text messages/month, 3000 mms/month and 1 Mbit/s unlimited mobile data.

hatoju