The lack on online ordering/activation is a serious mistake on ATT's part.

I'd be right there on day one, but not if I have to deal with a retail monkey.

Seriously, that was the single greatest 'innovation' of the iPhone, and now they've thrown it away.

Zandr

i just want my fucking version 2.0 software, damnit

MrBlahBlah

THIS IS BULLSHIT. The iPhone plan was key. If i knew they were going to do this i wouldnt have waited for this to come out. Such crap. Way to ruin everything AT&T. There is no more profit sharing so lets fuck the subscribers and make them pay more.

p.s. we dont even know if the 200 texts are included yet. Im betting on NO if the data plan is seperate already.
so that makes it 40 voice + 30 data + 20 Unlimited SMS = 90 bucks plus ridiculous fees and taxes/ per month. NO THANK YOU.

Pinkertonfanatic

so does that mean theres 100% no way of buying a phone then unlocking and screwing AT+T?

thistle.john

I think the minimum is $40 (voice) + $30 (data) = $70. I could handle that, but only 200 txt msgs/month? WTF?

jw

The hell? When I saw $199 I said "oh sweet I will get one!" Now I see this, and I go "no way" The only reason I would get an iphone is the $60 voice/data plan. but now they want like what, 80 a month minimum? Plus no online ordering? Bull.

manaknight

this is bad news bears.

se.blackheart

@jeblis: well if the phone isn't being treated differently anymore, then discounts should start working again...

MrBlahBlah

I was ready to go with this until realizing that jailbreaking, while technically probably possible and likely, will be pointless because you won't get your hands on one without stupid activation. Eat shit, AT&T.

Back to importing from across the pond I guess...

UnStatusTheQuo

Apparently AT&T took some math classes in the past year and realized that the number of phones being sold does not equal the number of people signing up for service. You just can't get anything by these guys. They're smart.

Monty

well since it looks like unlocking the new one will be difficult, and since they don't make the old one anymore, looks like i may still be able to sell my current gen for a decent price

MrBlahBlah

@diesel828: Yeah, and with the $20 plan, you got 200 text messages, which was plenty for me. Maybe I won't get this fucking phone after all.

itchytooth

wonder if I get my corporate discount on the voice plan...

jeblis

To be clear, it seems like old iPhone will be the same as it always was.

matt buchanan

@itchytooth: That's what it seems like. These policies are getting ridiculous.

jekyoo_style

Wow, $30 for data only?? I believe unlimited texting on AT&T is $20. $50 seems pricey for unlimited data and sms whereas it was only $40 before on the iPhone plan. And activation in store only? I am so delicate with my phones that I hate it when store employees open up the box and start handling my phone.

diesel828

The activation wont hurt the line. Once they set you up....move off to the side. 99% wont have an issue and can leave.

JEmlay

@elcarbonite: They looks like you only get the $20 grandfathered rate if you don't upgrade to a 3G iPhone, which isn't very surprising. I mean, I would hope EDGE wouldn't suddenly get more expensive.

itchytooth

@Anks329: Unless they've changed their mind in the years since I have left, you have to go to a brick and mortar store (namely the NYU store) to exploit that NYU discount anyways - Which is why I always bought my Mac goods online as a fake Cooper Union student (and continue to do so)

Hiphopopotamus

Not unexpected really since it was upgrading from EDGE to 3G, but that extra $10/month does take just a bit of the luster off the $199 price of the phone since a lot of iPhone customers are first time data plan buyers and paying an extra $240/yr on top of their regular plan for data was a slightly easier pill to swallow than an extra $360/yr. But then again, only a cheap bastard SERO user like myself would even notice something like that. Shiny. Pretty. Me want. Cha-ching.

Ron-Mexico

Sheesh, now I will have to get an unlocked one from Europe.

LindsayJoy's MBP is into S+M

You can get your student discount in-store, unless NYU has some crazy ass deal going.

krylonultraflat

So, how will it work when you buy it at an Apple store? Will they sign you up with an AT&T contract before they'll let you out the door with it? This sucks.

itchytooth

Don't worry people, they've started making iPhones back in April/May so that there will be millions available July 11th. After all, they have to make up for their shortfall this quarter as all the supply are pushed to next quarter.

Noobs-R-Us

AT&T mentioned that current iPhone customers will continue to pay the $20/month.

[www.macspark.net]

elcarbonite

@Epershand:

I already called Rogers. July 11th for sure, but no pricing or data plans yet. They did confirm that there will be new data plans for the iphone, just not how much or limits.

Shifty203

The no online ordering kills this for me. This is a nice upgrade, but nowhere near worth waiting in line for.

Lewis

@gamecrazychris: wow you're selling it for $200? That's soo cheap. I EASILY sold my 16GB iPhone for $500 on craigslist. Received 7 calls at the end of the day about it.

Yes, you can unlock it even if it's already activated on AT&T.

jekyoo_style

Sory for the tripple post, it didn't appear when I clicked submit so I though it didn't work

gamecrazychris

Did you guys find out if the data plan is required? I can afford a voice plan, but not a data one on top of it.

ducttape38

I'm selling my 16gb iphone to a friend who uses T-mobile and I need to know, can I unlock my current iphone even if it's activated on At&T already?
PLEASE REPLY-THANKS

gamecrazychris

at&t just ruined my day. Another $10 a month for the data plan?!?!? No thank you iPhone, maybe next time.

i BaldEagle

I'm selling my 16gb iphone to a friend for $200 because he uses T-mobile(no 3G) and I need to know, can I unlock my current iphone even if it's already activated on AT&T?
PLEASE REPLY-THANKS

gamecrazychris

It'd be nice if Giz could do some digging around ROGERS in Canada. I'm dying up here.

Epershand

"And you will have to camp out, since there won't be any online ordering at launch"

does that mean that it'll be available for online orders after launch day?

jekyoo_style

Does that mean Text Messages are separate?

xxGenericSNxx

blah, that sucks. If there is no special treatment for the iphone anymore, that means that I can get my 20% discount as an NYU student? the FAN discount?

Anks329

Ok i meant no ordering it then jail breaking it for t-mobile or anybody else!
DAM U ALL TO HELL!

lunasdude

How are they going to tell who is a personal user and who is a business user? I use my current data plan for business use, but it's all under my name..

SecretAsianMan

wow att, way to rain on Apple's parade...That online activating was like heaven..figures

JAG

WELL NO FRACKING JAIL BREAKING! BASTARDS!

lunasdude

i officially quit.

no online ordering??

that makes me angry.

ihatethekids

Wackstreet! There goes my plan to get a 15% discount from my friend who works for Apple.

isoSasquatch

WTF, GG.

jekyoo_style

@mikemacman: That is horse shit, me and nutbastard were gonna get one and I don't know about him...but I was gonna unlock mine and keep it on my T-mobile! fuck well I suppose we will get the plan.

carmen has a hello kitty tattoo that nutbastard loves

@mikemacman: Yeah, it's actually $95/month after taxes and whatnot.

But you know you miss visual voicemail ...

GeekyNerdGuy

@JEmlay: Uhh, yes it will - they aren't going to have 100 "off to the side" stations. It takes approx. 1 minute to purchase an iPhone now - it'll now take 10 without issue.

So now it'll take 500 minutes for a line of 100 people. (If two activators are going, most retail stores only have 2-4 registers max) so it'll take 4-8 hours for a line of 100 people?! Compare this to maybe 1.3 hours the "old" way. I just can't imagine that happening.

I'm ok with the extra 10$ - it's a much better network.

Hopefully ATT releases info on this soon.

robotleawesome

I will NOT be getting a 3G iPhone. I currently have an iPhone running on T-Mobile. 600 minutes, unlimited data (T-Zones) and unlimited texts for $61 a month.

AT&T wants $40 for 450 minutes + $30 for data + $20 for unlimited texting = $90. $90 a month for a phone with 450 minutes?!?. I'll pass. Thats too much money for me. Its too bad, because a 3G iPhone would be nice.

mikemacman

Just because Apple isn't making monthly income off of iPhone users doesn't mean that they can't account for the iPhone as a subscription. They do it with the Apple TV; no guaranteed monthly charges there.

Ward

If they'll allow voip on their network (maybe skype :) ) then I wouldn't mind the extra 10$/month.

SowndOfDeth

OK this is weird.

After the keynote I was franticlly refreshing the Apple/UK page to try and get the UK price (it always more than the American one)

At first it threw me onto a screen that had order from store, order online options.

About half an hour later I clicked the same screen and it changed to just "order from store"
No online buying.

Anyone think there where some last min developments to stop people jailbreaking? Seems weird it changed. You would think a company like Apple would have their webpages done properly and not have to change them at the last moment.

...and no i dont have any screen shots unless someone knows how to capture from cache!!!!

dk42

@thistle.john:
I doubt there's any legal way to stop you from activating your phone in the store and then canceling your service in the first 30 days, but it's a lot of trouble to go through.

djfred

What if you are an existing AT&T subscriber and want the new iphone? Are they going to allow you to upgrade to the iphone at any time? Because If they didnt Ill have to wait until like freakin' December.

twoback

seriously why are details so sketchy on all this!? att hasn't even mentioned it on their website yet!

dothedrewtoo

wait, it has to be activated in store... but there will be a penalty if you don't activate it within 30 days... i don't understand

dothedrewtoo

Way to go Apple, market yourself as an innovative company that gets it and is down with all the new trends, and then tie your kewl hardware to an old corporate behemoth that's going to nickel and dime all your customers to death before they even get out of the store.

Dave J.

so.... is it unlimited or unlimited up to 4gb's?

odnet

So what are the unsubsidized prices going to be?

godai

boy am I happy I have an awesome 1st generation
iPhone.... I have found the edge network to be fine for me
not too slow IMHO.....The new 3g sounds like a step
backward in some ways. I loved buying my iPhone
and feeling like I owned it as I walked out of the Apple
store...now it will again seem like you're renting a
damn cell phone......too bad.

My wife wants a Google phone....I was going to buy her the 3G
iPhone but now.. I'll wait and get her the Google phone.

gaiking

Son of a beotch! No wonder you can't buy online. That is going to mega-suck, and not in the good way. Guess I'll go to an AT&T store, I assume the lines will be shorter there.

EricLA2NYC

I am soooooooo glad I didnt sell my 1st Gen phone. Honestly this make the 3G not worth it. Besides edge isnt that bad(**lieing to my self**)

Boots_Mcoy

Looks like i'll be getting the iphone around august 11th, I cant understand why a person would camp out for a product any product the only thing i could understand is someone camping out for something thats life or death or they are going camping in the woods other than that why not just wait.

utube2007

@SecretAsianMan: They wont know. The only way they know if the account has a business tax id or ssn. Before AT&T had business plans alot of business owners would get the iPhone in their name and use it for business purposes.

pdditty

OK, this has just gone from "cool" to "crap".

Hey, Apple, throw us a frikkin' bone here. At least offer us an unsubsidized, unlocked option! You're not revenue-sharing with AT&T anymore, what do you have to lose?

HeartBurnKid

@mobilehavoc: thats cool, I paid 699 for a 1st gen.

odnet

no on-line activation probably means the end to the "secret" pay-as-you-go option they've had since inception. They really need the pre-pay for teens and those with credit issues.
Boo to Apple for this one.

klrobinson

Apple has you all over a barrel...any current 3G phone on AT&T's network can run fine with the $20/mo smartphone unlimited plan...even the current $20/mo iPhone plan works perfectly with 3G. i.e. I took my iPhone SIM out and stuck it in a N95 US 3G and it worked perfectly at 3.5G speeds. This extra $10/mo is complete bullshit and just AT&T recouping the subsidy they are giving you upfront.

Do the math. 16GB = $300 + $240 (2 years of $10/mo additional) additional data = $640. $640 is the real price.

mobilehavoc

so if i restore it using iTunes because its not responding or something, do i have to go running off to my nearest AT&T store to get it activated again?

k4ffy

Activation in store means CONTRACTS FOR ALL.

Damn I was hoping to get around that.

Hell I'd be willing to pay non-subsidized pricing.

fuzzycuffs

It will still be $20 a month for unlimited data and 200 text. That is the official word.

TheManator

this is probably the end of an iphone for me. i was willing to leave my SERO plan ($35 + tax fees) for the $59 iphone plan, but the new $75 plan is out of the question.

sixsixty

It's STILL cheaper than what I pay Verizon for unlimited data.

kostia

So to the people who have iPhones atm who aren't willing to upgrade: Would you get the 3G iPhone if you didn't have one, given the contract price hike?

Onouris

@Onouris: Nope!

gaiking

AAAAAaahahahahah - Apple's got a great death grip on the Sheople of the iWorld. I can see it already. Tents, cheetos, days and days in the mall outside their "temples" awaiting their chance to be touched by Jobs... and still... won't have the capability to send a simple MMS message.

nrek

@Onouris: I'm sorry! I misread your question. If I didn't have an iPhone at all? Yes, I would still get this one. The extra $10/month kind of sucks, and the activation is hassle city, but the phone is the most useful device I've ever owned.

wild homes

@Onouris: Right now? It would depend on how many killer apps from the store really require 3G to be maximum useful, but probably not, no. I'll most likely wait for the refresh with a better camera.

wild homes

The most interesting part of this deal with AT&T and Apple is the fact that you have to activate your iPhone in an AT&T Wireless or Apple Store.

If you think about it for a sec... AT&T has converted every Apple store into a AT&T Wireless store.

Hmmmmm....

yoshi

Interesting! Yeah, I meant if you didn't have an iPhone at all, but I was trying not to use the word iPhone 26 times in my sentence.

Next question - There's nothing like Skype on the iPhone is there? I'm seriously considering getting the 3G phone, and something like that would seal the deal. To be able to use my iPhone outside on 3G, or at home on wi-fi and not use any of my minutes because of Skype (other online call programs are available!) would be perfect.

Ok, I lied, not perfect. No copy and paste is still rediculous, as is no flash support in Safari and no video. I said it in another post somewhere. Someone could have done these ON THEIR OWN in a year.

One thing I am glad of is that the UK iPhone is on O2, and unlike AT&T, they don't suck harder than a Dyson.

Onouris

@djfred: I *think*, based on the info released so far, that the activation being in-store only is only at the beginning of it's release, not forever. Or, it could be for areas that don't allow it. That said, how could they penalize me if I don't activate? Drop my warranty?

Also, what about people buying it as a gift? Activation within 30-days from the sale is going to be quite difficult to manage for many people.

geowrian

Update 4: This is going to cause a demand for unlocked v1 iphones, as they were readily available without having to purchase a plan and can be unlocked for use with other carriers. let the bidding wars begin!

se.blackheart

Well, it looks like I'm either keeping my EDGE iPhone or getting a Bold when it comes to T-Mobile. GG Apple.

Brandnew70x7

@UnStatusTheQuo: That's great, champ. You're really sticking it to the man. Maybe by the time your two years is up, T-Mobile will have a fully functional 3G network.

wild homes

I've been out of contract on TMobile for 4 years on a ridiculous grandfathered plan. I don't care what features an Apple product has- it has no business being controlled by a 2 year AT&T contract. To exemplify this, here's how much I hate AT&T:

I PLAN ON signing up and immediately (I mean like that same HOUR) cancelling the contract and paying the ETF fee of $175 so that it can be promptly be unlocked for use on TMobile where I get a VALUE for my money.

So, $299+$175 = still will be $500+ after tax to use an unlocked iPhone on another network. Old news, just my way around AT&T.

Glad I got about $450 for my used N95. Net cost = $50. Savings by screwing AT&T for 2 years = at least $1,000

UnStatusTheQuo

Giz, can you try to find out from AT&T if current non-iPhone AT&T customers in a contract can upgrade to the iPhone for the $199/$299 pricing by signing a new two year contract? If not, what is the full price of the iPhone. Details on the whole iPhone 3G are seriously lacking from AT&T at the moment.

steve1496

I'm confused. Unless you don't live in the USA, there's no reason to unlock a 3G iPhone. AT&T is the only network that will support the 3G part of the 3G iPhone. In fact, unless you're on T-Mobile, there was no reason to wait for this annoucement, other than to get a cheap iPhone from someone selling theirs.

If you were thinking of switching to AT&T then buying one, still, it makes no sense. And even those complaining about having to pay $10 more than before, HELLO, how do you think subsidies work? You still pay for the phone, just not all at once.

So please QQ more. If you don't like the iPhone 3G, stick with whatever service you have now. It's not going to melt because of what happened today.

dagamer34

Well I know that preorder will be available here in Sweden. But I have no idea if this means that you need to go to the store and sign up, or if they just send it home to you with the papers. If it's the latter, anyone with good ideas on how to screw Telia? Sign up a friend's adress and name, pay in the bank (OCR?)?

VirreVojj

n a sort of unrelated note why the fuck (wtf?) is the ipod touch more than the iphone 3g, they better lower the price that actually does not make sense, gps, 3g, camera, etc. is 100 bucks cheaper!, I just want some of the app store love and they want me to pay more for the less specs than a different product made and premoted by that company, wtf

takemetoyourtoaster

@dagamer34: Unless you want the phone for the GPS and not the 3G.

VirreVojj

Wait wait wait, calm down. You dont have to sign crap until you activate the phone. You have 30days to activate the phone and the contract. If some hacker/unlocker can figure out how apple can think it was really activated then everything would be set!

jsmjr816

I posted this on, um, another gadget site, but I think it's applicable here as well, even though it ignores the prevention of unlocking scenario:

I think it's ignorant and irresponsible to say that customers have been "happy" to activate their cell phones this way for years [in response to a quote from an AT&T rep]. On a grander scale that's akin to stating that we as a whole have been very happy about obliterating our Earth to the point of severe global warming for years.

Engadget chose the perfect word to describe the transition to in-house activation: innovative. Of course, it's innovation (or "rennnovation" if we're talking about certain other companies) that serves as the hallmark for just about every device or service that graces the pages of this blog, but I think most of us agree that when it comes to Apple the concept of innovation is taken to a whole new level.

The ability to take charge of purchase and activation from the comfort of their computers was just the kind of radical shift in the total, utter bullshit global warming cell phone business model many people wanted--and were relieved to have.

Gone now are the days that we don't have to go through the obnoxious and confusing rigor morale of being upsold on twenty-cents-to-make car chargers for the low, low add-on price of $20.

And that's really what it's all about: control of the sale. I'm 100% certain the two companies sat down, looked at the numbers and realized that the average accessory sale per iphone was lacking. So, in an effort to increase the bottom line--in lieu of the new rock-bottom pricing, of course--let's re-break (rennovate) what's already been fixed.

Look at it this way: 6 million iphones sold in a year at 12 minutes per activation = another 72 million minutes, or 50,000 days, that we get to stand on line waiting for the well-meaning folks in front of us to have their creditworthiness scrutinized by some punk kid salesperson. Supply/demand models also suggest that at the lower price demand will increase. What does that mean? More waiting.

But at least while we wait we can collectively nod like the drones they think we are when asked, "Would you like a Bluetooth headset with that?"

Thanks a lot.

Gilbert

@SecretAsianMan: Depends on how the account is setup.

Business = Business name with Fed Tax ID, D&B, etc.
Personal = SSN.

dink23

So if the phone is activated in-store, are they getting rid of the iTunes activation? If they do that, then is the SIM that the phone ships with no longer married to that phone? So then AT&T might give out subsidy unlocking codes after the contract grace period is up like they do for other phones. That would be worth the in-store activation.

dingus

Alright, no mention anywhere about those of us who will be donating our current iphone to our significant others. If we're in the store activating our new phones (and transferring our existing numbers), does that mean when I come back with my now non-activated iPhone 1, I can activate it via iTunes like back in the day and transfer my wife's number to it? Will we get the cheaper rate?

contempt

Ok Ive spoken to two apple reps who said the same thing, all these things are rumors and total BS! No where does it say it has to be activated in store said both the reps. It all started with one gadget blog and then spread. None of the apple employees were trained on at&t activation so how would it be in store activation if you bought it at an apple store? Especially gifts also. Please giz put an end to this rumor and ask apple for yourself or stop spreading the bs like every other gadget site

jsmjr816

@jsmjr816: The in-store activation only came from AT&T's president of national distribution, who I spoke to on the phone. I guess if you want to call that a rumor, go for it.

matt buchanan

@jsmjr816: I think Giz just has a better source then "random apple reps". They gave the name of AT&T's President of National Distribution for gosh sakes. Don't you think that Glenn (AT&T's President of National Distribution, Glenn Lurie) would have a better idea of how AT&T activation is going to go down, rather then "two apple reps"? Simple explanation really, all the information hasn't gotten down to every level of the PARTNER company. Apple isn't even doing the activations for gosh sakes, AT&T is. And you think you've got "the scoop" cause you've spoken to two of the lowest employees on Apple's corporate latter?

...go to bed man. Sleep on it. There'll be some new information in the morning.

newgalactic

@jsmjr816: holy crap every bit of that article came true! 3G Gps fatter ships in July for gods sakes!!!

jsmjr816

@RivaAntiphus: Thats exactly what I was told, I dont think they would be purposely told to say the same lie again and again do you?!?@matt buchanan: Please try and get Giz to bring this up again, this is creeping me out that we actually all saw the iphone 3g waaaaaay back in April linky: [gizmodo.com]

jsmjr816

@matt buchanan:
I think that ATT is saying that because THEY are giving the option of activating instore, unlike before where you had to activate online or on the phone. ATT is allowing the OPTION of activating online, the apple rep confirmed to me that you would have the OPTION of activating at the store but that it wasn't required.

RivaAntiphus

*comment

jsmjr816

@matt buchanan:
Sorry I just thought someone had to be trained, I didnt know you talked to him personally. You would of thought apple would have trained their employees on how to answer these type of questions, but I suppose thats what this upcoming month is for huh? I was reading another person's coment on another site that said they will not be doing preorders online but will be selling it online after July 11, hopefully this will come true?

jsmjr816

@Onouris: actually there is :)

noservice2001

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but how is it legal to force a user to activate on the spot, and then penalize them if they haven't done so within 30 days? I thought it was illegal to prevent a person from using their phone on another network??

Anyone have any insight on this?

rcast1986

As one of those *cough* punk AT&T sales reps, let me throw my hat into the ring of this eternal bitch-fest.

Let me go down the list of complaints on here that I find issue with:

"Oh no, instead of one minute to buy an iPhone it's 5!" No... if you're a new customer to AT&T we'd still have to run your credit anyways. Know why? You pick up the iPhone, you rush home, you run credit there, oh look. $150 deposit. Rush ALLLL the way back to the store to pay it (or return it and complain about the restocking fee we have ZERO power to override cause it's now open) and then go alllll the way back home. A credit check in store saves me an hour of work for each deposit-needing customer. My store has 5 registers set up. If we put the 5 fastest people on them... I guarantee you I can run credit, pick a plan with a customer, go over accessories and activate in 5 minutes unless I have to call for an analyst review of the credit ap. 5 customers at a time, 5-7 minutes each wave. That doesn't sound so bad to me. Line of 100 people (which what it was at the first iPhone launch) is two hours. Which is what it took last time.

"No prepaid option!?" Know how many iPhones get activated on prepaid in central jersey? zero. why? people on here are complaining the data went up $30 (possibly). The premium for the prepaid iphone was like $25 more a month... (ballparking cause honestly they don't even TALK about that option ever)

"Well, now I can't unlock/use on t-mobile/etc etc." If you don't like the strings attatched to the deal... don't take it. And to the gentleman who said he'd cancel the contract within an hour of the activation. Afraid it doesn't work that way. When you cancel in the first 30 days without returning the hardware we hit you for unsubsidized cost. Not $175. No word what that is yet. (And YES the phones will be activated in store, and NO the word was not "optionally", that's from an e-mail from Ralph De La Vega to ALL AT&T reps)

There is ZERO word to us that the iPhone plan is going up. Even if it did, all this does is bring the iPhone in line with the rest of our data packages. Apple themselves call the iPhone a SMARTPHONE. Every SMARTPHONE in AT&T's lineup is $30 for unlimited data. It accesses the full internet, thus you pay more for the wider access of sites. That's the deal. See above about "strings attatched to deal"

I'm glad your t-mobile plan is so cheap for you. I had t-mobile for 5 years and sold their wares for 2 years. But after paying at tiny bit more for AT&T service I know where that extra money goes. Coverage. Like every customer who comes in incredulous that their free LG flip phone peice of crap is a (wait for it) peice of crap... "You get what you pay for."

This system makes MY job easier cause now there will be no pressure on us to "screen" for unlockers. (AS much as I enjoyed that it got frustrating at times. Do people think they're really that smart?)

Oh, but plus side to no apple profit sharing/ higher plan... If you have a corperate discount, you might get it back now. I might get back MY AT&T discount... which makes it.... the same exact price as now.

And they're not PREVENTING you from using the phone on another network. You can make it work, props to you. You're going to be PENALIZED for it, which is a different animal entirely. You knew the system was being gamed before when you were doing it, they're changing the rules so you don't make a company lose money. I'm shocked. These are the people I love denying iPhone sales to.

Sorry for the bitterness tonight, but we tallyed 49 calls today to our store asking if we had the iPhone 3G and if we'd hold one for them and demanding confirmation of what rumors "The unoffical apple website" (no lie) had posted, cause clearly that's more based in fact then the schmucks who are just SELLING the damn thing.

"Do you have the iPhone 3G? I saw it online." "Did you see the release date online?" "Yeah, July 11th." "Then why do you think we'd have one?" "...can you hold one for me?" "No, but bring a sleeping bag, the line's going to be long."

ajfili

Oh and the whole "How can they tell "regular and enterprise" data usage. Same way they do with the Blackberries, probably. They'll block exchange connections on the $30 package, enable it on the $45. You want the exchange support? Cough up the extra $15 you corperate bastard you... :P

ajfili

@ajfili: You make some great points, but it still stands that not offering a pay as you go option alienates a lot of potential customers, including me. I spend a considerable amount of my time in Poland (about 8 months of the year), but technically live in the UK. I really want to upgrade my iPhone (which is unlocked by the way, sorry if that pisses you off) to the 3G version, but I'm not going to get myself into an 18 month contract which I will only find useful for 4 months a year.

Also, I actually NEED 2 numbers, one UK and one Polish, so that I don't incur massive roaming charges and people calling me aren't getting charged for international calls even though I'm in the same country as them. Ideally these should be PAYG numbers, but even if I went for a contract, the phone would STILL be locked. I should be able to do whatever I like with MY phone.

So what's my only option if I want a 3G iPhone that I can use all year round? Buy a UK one and a Polish one and pay two phone bills a month!?! That's not really viable or convienient, so I guess I'll stick with crappy EDGE and cell tower triangulation.

I'm not saying that there's hundreds of thousands of potential iPhone buyers in my situation, but there will be hundreds of thousands of potential buyers who want or need a PAYG option for one reason or another and I'm sure there's plenty that would like to use the phone that they own on whatever network they please. Every other mobile phone manufacturer offers their phones without restrictions so that people willing to pay the premium can do what they want with it - why can't apple?

craig_16

@ajfili:

The reason for this "bitchfest", as you call it, is because:

1) It's nearly impossible to decipher the policies of AT&T.
2) Every AT&T rep (in my experience) has this tinge of "bitterness" (your word). They feel justified in treating the customer like an idiot because the customer doesn't fully understand the policies (see point #1). I've spoken with AT&T reps on the phone and in person, and each and every time when I gently ask a simple question about, I get immediate hostility and most of the time they cannot give me a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer to a 'yes' or 'no' kind of question.

midnightzulu

Us Brits Can Get It On Pay As You Go. Even Confirmed On The 02 Website. :)

intel1111

What is the difference between the Business plan and the consumer plan? What do you get different other than $15 lighter in the pocket? Does the consumer version not support Exchange integration?

[www.att.com]

Zubov

WAIT I HAVE A QUESTION. I was really onboard for the iphone until I heard about the $10 extra/month for data. AS OF NOW, I have a razr2 and am paying 20$ a month for unlimited 3g. Can't I just switch sim cards and continue using 3g on the iphone for 20$ a month? Seems like people can just get a plan for their 3g phones right now for 20 and switch sims with the 3g iphone, I've done it before with other phones.

ps3_SUCKS

Apple getting revenue sharing from ATT and Apple accounting for the iPhone on a deferred basis are not necessarily related. AppleTV is also accounted for on a deferred basis, for example, and there are no revenue sharing plans for that. There are other reasons why Apple is using that model of accounting.

Accounting for the iPhone and AppleTV on a deferred basis is just a separate issue completely-unless you guys have some actual proof that the new iPhone is no longer going to be accounted for on a deferred cost basis.

Totorototoro

Also remember T-Mobile customers, unlocked and even in a 3G zone of t-mobiles the 3G iphone wont work, TMobile is rolling out their network on the AWS band 1700/2100MHz(its together wiki it) and the iphone is 99% likely to have Tri-band WCDMA(3G) so 850(US)/1900(US)/2100(europe)(no it wont work on AWS). But there are other carriers that are rolling out 3G in the us on those freq bands, I happen to work for one. I will have a 3G iphone, maybe from europe maybe from att, but I will not have ATT.

schwartzki

So let me get this straight. Apple will be selling the iphone 200 dollars cheaper, and losing their revenue sharing profits from ATT.

It seems like their new business model will be to make money off the app store. Which is bad news for all of us. Something tells me the apps will be way overpriced and we can forget about any of them being free.

Lee580

Will current 1.0 owners get their plans granfathered in? Why would I pay $10 more per month (if that's still holds true)?

I'd love to see them update the Touch with everything sans the phone & drop the price...

genius74

WAIT I HAVE A QUESTION. I was really onboard for the iphone until I heard about the $10 extra/month for data. AS OF NOW, I have a razr2 and am paying 20$ a month for unlimited 3g. Can't I just switch sim cards and continue using 3g on the iphone for 20$ a month? Seems like people can just get a plan for their 3g phones right now for 20 and switch sims with the 3g iphone, I've done it before with other phones.

KeeneGaze

It's very simple. Pay $199, activate it and cancel the contract right away. They'll hit you with a ~$200 cancellation fee but then you can unlock the phone and use it however you want with whatever carrier you'd like. So a total of around $399 for a soon-to-be unlocked 3G iPhone. Not too bad. You are basically just giving them back their subsidy with the cancellation fee.

If you already have an iPhone, keep that account open - just swap the SIM cards after you have cancelled the new account and keep your current plan cost as well.

rm121978

I think you're missing an important distinction here: AT&T may be subsidizing sales of phones through their stores, but Apple isn't doing that; after all, they are providing them to AT&T. So that would suggest that Apple is charging AT&T $399 for the phones they get and then they're being subsidized, thus allowing them to make the argument that they need to raise the price of unlimited data plans by $10 to make up for the subsidy. But what's to stop anyone from buying it online or at an Apple store and just walking out? If they want to jailbreak it and use some other carrier, that's perfectly legal, and you'd keep AT&T out of your bank account. Believe it or not, there are lots of people who just want the cachet of owning an iPhone, but can do without the data service.

BaileyNycteus

I agree with dothedretoo: why a penalty if you can't leave the store without activating it?

Also, Fortune/CNN is reporting:

"AT&T's exclusive iPhone partnership also calls for the company to share as much as 24% of its monthly iPhone service revenue with Apple."

So, the revenue share hasn't ended. I call shenanigans.

jtl3000

I don't get it. According to the updated post:

"Dow Jones' report: "AT&T and Apple are working on a form of penalty for users who don't activate their iPhone within 30 days of purchase.""

If you have to activate in the store when you buy it, how could there be a penalty for people who do not activate within 30 days of purchase? Does that mean you can walk into the store, buy a new iPhone, walk out and come back a week later to activate?

I'm calling shenanigans on this entire post. Apple Stores are not set up to do AT&T activations and I doubt that they would sit employees there with browsers open activating phone after phone. They want as many people to buy them as possible, just like the first time.

I seriously doubt that the procedure will change.

jtl3000

This pisses me off to no end. I switched from T-mobile a year ago when my wife and I needed new phones and I saw the iPhone in my future. While the $199 sticker has finally brought it solidly into my price range, the $30 fee makes it a bite in my ass. FUCK YOU ATT. I would much rather pay more to Apple (as I always have) than give ATT another dime. ATT didn't come up with a revolutionary device... APPLE did. I can't wait for their exclusive deal to end so that the free market can correct this bullshit.

Here's an idea: How about Apple subsidizing the $30 data cost (back down to $20 or less) to customers who ALSO pay for .mac??? Then things would get interesting again...

medmonds

Yep, WTF. No iTunes/online activation makes no sense. 30 bucks a month does hurt a bit--damn I hate subscriptions. Moore's law should apply here, too! As with the hardware, the service fees should be going down.

bbchee

I Would think if you could order it from ATT's site it comes Pre-Activated...Did with my Razr i bought last year before iphone

demonotaku

I was just told by a business customer service rep that FAN discounts do not apply to the 3g iPhone. She also verified that if you get a 3g phone (other than the iphone), your FAN discounts apply to the voice and data plan. If you get an iPhone (SAME plan mind you), you don't get a discount.

Yeah, fuck that. I'm keeping my iPhone 1.0. Fuck you AT&T.

sn0zc0r3

Well for me personally they added everything I wanted on the phone such as 3G and GPS. I wanted MMS but its something I can live without grudgingly.

Surprisingly the deal breaker for me maybe something I wasn't expecting and that is the new $30 data plan. To me it was already pushing the limits considering I had to pay $20 for a unlimited text plan which I need.

I hope by the release date AT&T or Apple reconsiders this or they may lose a sale here.

Foodstamp

@UnStatusTheQuo: Buy iphone for $199, sign contract, then cancel. They'll charge you a early term fee (typically $150 to $200), and then the hardware is yours to do whatever you want with.

I plan on doing this.. although I'm going to make sure what the term fee is before I do it. Doing this it works out to be the same price as it was before, so who cares about the contract?

grenahhd

in store activation?!? are you shitting me? and no online ordering? i guess AT&T finally put the pants on and barked down apple like some common cell maker... and what happened to "in store today" apple?

npa191

Well this is a pisser! I was going to buy two phones for my wife and I. No way now. I hated AT&T with a passion. In honesty they haven't been half bad since I started the service. Now this is the straw that breaks the Camels back. Fuck you AT&T. I will get another iPhone when we have more choice in carriers. You suck. I will keep my iphone till it dies and then be looking into the Android. this price break from Jobs was all smoke and mirrors. Bah!

hardenstuhl

Before reading this thread, I had called an AT&T store asking about prices for iPhone plans. They said it was any voice plan + $20 for unlimited data. Is this price going up to $30 or were they just incorrect? I'm on a grandfathered $29 per month voice plan and would love to be able to just add $20 to that.

Limekiller

Can either IPhone be used on family plans with the data plan tacked on? My wife just got a job and we are considering both getting an IPhone (me because I want to start developing with the SDK, and her because she will need a smartphone for her sanity). Will this cost us ($40 + $30) X 2? Or is there a way to get a family voiceplan or add an extra line and maybe pay something like $60 + ($30 x 2)?

Alluvian

@ajfili: Aaaah! The Enemy has infiltraded Gizmodo, it's a trap!

VirreVojj

@midnightzulu: I fully agree with you. Some of the policies are maze-like. Hell, they'll change them sometimes and not tell anyone until the system tells us we can't do something. But personally, I've been selling cell phones for 4+ years now. Policies that are just "common sense" are considered "ridiculous" by my customers... "What do you MEAN you can't take back a phone without the box?""I didn't know my son was calling some girl in Canada, thus I CAN'T be responsible for international long distance calls!" etc.

To be honest, if someone just has some questions, I'll sit there all day answering them. I really have zero problem with it. The more comfortable people are with the service the better it is for us (at&t) and them. However not all at&t reps are created equal, and I usually have to play clean up guy for a coworker or two of mine who won't even show customers how to use their new phone... The only time I'll get frustrated with a customer is when I have to repeat myself more than 3 times, or they don't like a policy and then decide to take it out on me. I don't write the policies. Honestly, people think we're verbal punching bags and treat us as such constantly. I think that's why you face such bitterness from cell-phone reps. I get cursed out on a daily basis. It's a problem that isn't easily fixed on either end...

@craig_16: In your situation, no, a PAYG option is the best thing for you. I have zero opinion on the PAYG iPhone option. I'd still make money on it if people legitimately used it. I've asked people in every store in NJ I've run into if they've ever seen a PAYG iPhone around here. No one has. Most can't even tell a customer what that PAYG plan IS. It's such a premium over the regular plan that no one activates it. Personally if I was going to do it, I'd simply hack it, get the PAYG sim with unlimited text and unlimited Media.Net ($40 a month + per minute rate). It's the special iPhone PAYG feature that makes it so much more expensive and the only thing it has over the other option is the visual voicemail.

And no, your unlocked iPhone doesn't anger me. If anyone specifically asks for an iPhone to unlock, I direct them to the Apple store. As an at&t rep we are tasked with screening people for unlockers. There is an immense pressure from higher up to make sure every iPhone gets activated. The more that you sell that don't, the worse you look to them. If people were up front about such a need I have no problems. Usually people visiting from other countries will ask in broken english "I can buy without contract?" I explain to them "No, but if you get one from Apple you can. Same price." and they merrily go on their way. It's the people who act like their smarter than me and smile to my face and go over the plans with me and waste my time making it look like a legitimate sale only to turn around and not activate it. Even if they say "I'm going to activate it here, I just want it unlocked for when I go overseas." I have ZERO problem to sell these phones. Hell I just unlocked my iPhone today so I can sell it to get the new one. But I just get furious that someone has the balls to come in, waste 45 minutes of my time because of their sense of entitlement. No sales rep I know cares if you have an unlocked phone (We'll simply inform you to restore the phone before you ever have to bring it to Apple), we just don't want customers walking in, wasting however much time it takes and not even walk out and not buy anything, but to buy something and indirectly kick us in the beanbag, and be proud of it by gloating on here that "My t-mobile plan is soooooo cheap." If you came in and said "I want to use this device on T-Mobile." Unless there's a hardass store manager or a reigonal manager somewhere around my store, I'll explain to you how to get one from Apple, because they don't have to screen for unlockers, they're not paid commission on the iPhone (and if they are, it doesn't matter if they're activated unlike at&t reps), and hopefully they're going to at least have the decency to go "Ok, that's going to screw an at&t rep over but he was cool enough to tell me how I *can* get one. I'll do that." Yet there are still people who will just go over to the next at&t store and screw THAT rep over. Because in their mind it's "Tough shit at&t man, I've got my cheap t-mobile plan and that's YOUR problem." THOSE are the people I was bitching about in my previous post.

ajfili

I'm not really looking forward to the 3G iPhone just yet, one of course is that it dose not support US T-Mobile 3G network (before you bite back, Yes I Do know that T-Mob. 3G uses a different signal than what is most common and is in the 3G iPhone) I'm willing to wait when either T-Mob or iPhone to make any changes. (if any, but highly doubtful at this point in time.) The price of the new 3G iPhone really had me by surprise. However the activation only in-store, story, really had me at a loss, but if I remember correctly FCC regulations allow 3 days by any cellular carrier for the customer to cancel the contract with out any fees or fines, and if I remember, that's what most did, especially me when I first got my 1st gen iPhone. That's what I wanted to do, however since the 3G really wouldn't work with me since I use T-Mobile, I really don't to get one right away, and just wait till at least an unlock and Jailbreak is available for iPhone 2.0 firmware.

RashidaNuggler

@ajfili: You are absolutley correct my friend. There is NO PRICE increase on iPhone data plans. It will still be $20 for unlimited data and 200 sms. PLEASE PEOPLE, CALM DOWN!

TheManator

*infiltrated

VirreVojj

"There would be penalties for users who do not activate the iPhone in the first 30 days, AT&T said, in a move aimed at reducing the number of customers who buy an iPhone and tweak it so that they can use it on another network.

From:
[www.reuters.com]

Doesn't this reveal that you will indeed be able to purchase a 3G iPhone and leave the store without it being activated?

For how else would you be able to have a 3G iPhone in your possession for 30 days, un-activated??

winexprt

@TheManator: You're both wrong. Confirmed reports point to $10 increase on data plans.

Gilbert

@Gilbert: Well working for ATT, and receiving the official memo in my email from Ralph de La Vega says that the price will not increase. You will see this confirmed in the next couple of weeks.

TheManator

i love how people comment "blah blah blah... watch out apple or you might lose a sale from me." like it really matters to apple. im so sure steve jobs is shakin in his turtleneck reading these comments.

esubi81

@TheManator: I hope you are right, but you must be like the second to top person at ATT since no one else at ATT has a clue to what the new plans are going to be.

PhilFin

I don't agree that there will be no iPhone 3G at all in Apple Store, they can't just put a banner saying " go to the nearest AT&T store and get 1" that's not gonna happen and what if you already sign up for 2 years when u bought your first iPhone, now you have to sign up for another 2 years... this is bullshit....
fuck AT&T, its all about money

sanchez20

Important! We should all consider the following:

- I saw photo of actual Iphone 3G back and it was covered with fingerprints! (but gps does not like metal)
- You all like the word ''3G'', but think a little deeper about your battery life, 3G will simply suck it, that's why I still keep my nokia settings on 2G and use free wifi. Data plans will be harsh on the pocket.
- You cannot use the phone with other carriers, huge slap for the business users and travellers
- the nice 3.5 inch display would be very good for video calling, but no front video camera, sorry guys.
- Iphone 3g does not come with revolutionary changes indeed

Think those over before getting rid of your 1st gen Iphone or lock in 2-yr contract. Cheers

acidized

Apple made a deal with the devil to get in bed with AT&T. AT&T does what it always does... take over the industry and raise the price. I remember when AT&T had to be broken up because they were a monopoly that was putting the screws to its customers. AT&T bought my cell phone company when I had plan of 1000 minutes for $39.99. AT&T has doubled the rate and now offers 450 minutes.
SPRINT HAS AN ALL YOU CAN EAT PLAN, DATA AND VOICE, NATIONWIDE, 3G FOR $99. They also just got a new phone, very much like the iPhone. Yeah,yeah yeah, its not an iphone. I love Apple as much as anyone. I've been making my living using their computers since the early 90's but I don't think I'm going to support this arrangement with AT&T. AT&T IS SCREWING THE PUBLIC AS THEY ALWAYS DO.

skr831

To those of you who've been insisting that the data plan is still $20, would you like to explain AT&T's press release on the matter?

[www.att.com]

For those reluctant to click over, it blatantly confirms the $30 data plan.

Sami3

OK, so in store activation. I would really like to know what Apple plans to do for activation in South America and India, where there are multiple distribution channels. Especially, keeping the price at $199 for India is a steal, if there is no contract. Might have to pick up the Iphone 3G on the next trip to India, and then Ziphone it. Ziphone..i am waiting for the updated software.

gizmoreader

According to AT&T Wireless' site, the data plan is definitely going up.

[www.wireless.att.com]

JustSayinMan

I have a Virg**Mobile phone. Cost free!! Only pay 20 bucks every three months! Makes calls just like the iPhone....Remember phone calls?

Muttly

Data Plan *IS* I repeat *IS* $30. See for yourself:

[www.wireless.att.com]

JustSayinMan

Screw At&t, screw apple Letting those jackasses at At&t and apple touching a new iphone is simply a fucking joke I rather get SE X1, HTC touch pro or blackberry thunder, better cams, . all with touch screens and physical keyboards, better yet I can use any carriers I want I've been a cingular/at&t customer for 4 years. this iphone shit is simply a deal breaker

VidarTantalus

Hey guys, I just started an online petition to Apple and AT&T, asking them to reconsider their new purchasing policies for the iPhone 3G. Lets make our voices heard, just so they know that we do not agree with the policies. http://www.petitiononline.com/IPHONE3G/petition.html Thanks, Alfonso Olvera

AdolfHizeck

May say walk cross forest to apple. Make big flashmob, evrybody just ignore new Iphone and this marketing position, and after mouth, they do it right thing, sell free new iphone?

Levantado

@ajfili:
@ajfili: You seem to be in the know, so I'll ask this: What's the story on existing AT&T customers (Like me, I have a BB Pearl) whose contracts are not up yet (mine is due in Nov/Dec 08), are we able to purchase a 3G iPhone on 11 July and simply extend our contract?

LouisaOrthrus

@ajfili:
@ajfili: You seem to be in the know, so I'll ask this: What's the story on existing AT&T customers (Like me, I have a BB Pearl) whose contracts are not up yet (mine is due in Nov/Dec 08), are we able to purchase a 3G iPhone on 11 July and simply extend our contract? Ascent Services, LLC Fred A. Crescente Senior Consultant fred@ascentsolutions.com 5565 South Decatur Blvd. Suite 101 Las Vegas, NV 89118 tel: 702-396-4300 fax: 702-853-6988 mobile: 702-524-3004 www.ascentsolutions.com The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege, or may otherwise be protected by work product, immunity or other legal rules. It must not be disclosed to any person without the sender's authority. If you are not the intended recipient, or are not authorized to receive it for the intended recipient, you are not authorized to, and must not, disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.

LouisaOrthrus

Giz, can you please do some more research and post again. Do some research, slap some people to get some answers!! Do you really have to activate on sight?.. Then whats the "AT&T and Apple are working on a form of penalty for users who don't activate their iPhone within 30 days of purchase." all about?? Do another post with more answers if you get some, Plz & Thank You!!

uklarz

What is goign to happen to current Iphone users? Does this mean that we add 2 more years to our contracts? or does this new one supercede the old contract.

GiuliettaJaloofamis

Thanks a lot Apple. You have convinced me to stick with my Blackberry until I know the new iPhone can be jailbroken!

kamie24

I much prefer the old activation scheme, rather than have some salesperson with greasy hands pop my new iPhone's cherry. Boo Hiss.

PUSSNBOOTS

You know, im on AT&T with an iPhone but this is a load of horse shit.
Seriously ANOTHER two year deal?
$10 more for data?
IN STORE Activation? I loved activating mine at home.

Looks like im sticking to iPhone 1.0 until this Nazi Exclusive Deal is Over, then im leaving AT&T.

Doerrfan

still love 'em.

Kprozac

F¿?=·)(/&%$·CK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in store acrtivation????? for god sake, how am i suposed to get an unlocked iphone down here in argentina????? waiting untill they release it here is clearly not an option....

ikyto

Any info on using the iPhone as a modem for laptops?

jpmaz

@LindsayJoy's MBP is into S+M:
Hey how are you goin to get one from Europe? You plan on jailbreaking it? let me kno how.. that was my plan.. but you have to activate in store

TheodoreHygieia

@gamecrazychris:
Yes, you can unlock your iphone if its on ATT. Mo Sifuentes, Equipment Manager XL Construction Corporation 851 Buckeye Court, Milpitas, CA 95035 Direct: 408.240.6373 www.xlconstruction.com See What's New At XL Construction [cid:image001.gif@01C8CD31.354ED6F0] The contents of this electronic transmission and any attachments are intended for the designated recipient(s) only. The contents, including attachments, may be confidential and subject to a non-disclosure agreement and/or one or more legal privileges against unauthorized reading, copying, storing , retransmission or dissemination. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email and permanently delete this email and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you.

NeomaAnkeet

$30 for unlimited data is such a rip off. I am paying $15 for MEdia net unlimited, without messages.

outie

i just got a bad taste in my mouth.

Of course I'll take a $200 discount over online activation. But that was one of the best experience I had when opening my original iPhone. Now if I sell my iPhone EDGE to my brother can he activate it online?

Gundampilotspaz

Does anyone have a clue as to what price a current AT&T customer can get the iPhone? I am not dishing out for a new two-year contract with AT&T when I am already committed to their family plan, which you could use an iPhone on without committing to a new contract.

sleepysentry

Damn, that sucks.

taiko

yea GG APPLE

solarix

@MrBlahBlah:
Agreed. Letting me keep my work discount will be yet another reason for me to switch.

(I love my Cingular 8125, but it's starting to show it's age in less than helpful ways)

oyvader