Not all gamers will get screwed. In fact, I feel the majority will not. Maybe my feeling is wrong, but I'm basing it out of the assumption that most people don't have SLI nor want it.

SLI is a ridiculous waste of money and does not provide enough of an advantage worth the cost (not just of the additional GPU, but of a more powerful PSU, and most likely some kind of expensive cooling), unless you have a monitor with an ENORMOUS resolution (SUPER HUGE).

Again, might be an assumption, but I feel most mainstream gamers don't have such displays, nor SLI for their smaller displays.

- PR-0927

PR-0927

NVidia needs to get with VIA to form the third major x86 manufacturer. Either have Isaiah-based SLI boards, or nForce boards supporting Isaiah. Intel will definitely be pushing Larabee soon, going up directly against NVidia. There is no way that either side would want to support a feature that would make the other side's offerings more powerful. That would basically be like Intel making motherboards that are compatible with AMD processors, which obviously would never happen. NVidia will need VIA, or they will not be able to compete in the future on the same level.

pete_at_brandeis

Screw discreet graphics. I only run indiscreet graphics.

Windhawk

nVidia need to back down - even if they were to receive a licence from Intel, their motherboards suck, so all their graphics cards customers would rather see them just licence SLI back to Intel instead.

Step666

Hugs his Radeon 3870 Warmly

vicsells

And it's for reasons exactly like this that console gaming has had such a huge success compared to PC gaming. These companies all need to swallow their pride and work together.

Annex1

@pete_at_brandeis: VIA specialises in low-power CPUs.
Isaiah is not a gaming processor.

nVidia and VIA will not happen, at least not for high-end gaming rigs.
It just wouldn't work.

Step666

What gamers rarely realize is that the cpu hasn't been the bottleneck point on current games for years and years. My gaming computer has an AMD cpu and it runs everything the same as, if not better than, a computer my friend has, the only real difference between the two being that he has an Intel chip that cost about the same. Because it's Intel the clock on his chip is 1.87 ghz while mine is 3.0. I know that Intel is ahead in the game at the moment, but it's not as if AMD is useless. Far from it.

mhlaxp

"Intel hasn't yet licensed Nvidia to make an nForce chipset that'll support Nehalem, citing a "disagreement" over the terms. "

So Nvidia will have boards that only support ATI/AMD CPUs?
This tech business is turning into a soap opera.

tex1ntux

@matt buchanan: Hmmm. I was thinking that the gap at least closed somewhat when one moved up to multiple cards and crap. Ah well.

Ashe

"Man, where's AMD when you need them?"

That made my day. Thanks, Giz!

spacecadetdavsot

@I Think We're Property: There were Space Marines in the Alien movies?

Ashe

@Ashe: They're not going to, if performance matters at all--at least based on their current crop of chips which don't touch current Intel or Nvidia wares.

matt buchanan

For some reason, the question that's weighing heaviest on my mind now is: if Intel are the Aliens, and NVidia are the Predators, then who are the Space Marines? AMD? ATI? The consumers?

I Think We're Property

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned how AMD is going to benefit from this. I am guessing though that if Intel is going to have to inadvertently help someone out there, they'd rather it be AMD than nVidia. If I had to choose between SLI and Intel, it is a rather simple choice. Intel with Crossfire beats AMD with nVidia SLI any day IMO.

Ashe

"Man, where's AMD when you need them?"

gettin shat on?

Sheemo44

@tex1ntux: What they haven't told us yet, is that ATI married AMD because former thought it was having that latter's baby. But when the next Radeon card comes out with built-in PoewerPC support (who are of course currently sleeping with Apple) all hell will break loose. And then IBM will wake up from a coma and reveal that they inherited Dad's money all along.

icelight

This Intel vs nVidia bitchfest was inevitable. While their products were the top performers when taken together for some time and both competed with the newly merged AMD, their relationship was tenuous and fleeting at best. It's well known that Intel is aiming squarely at the video card market, and nVidia had their mobile processors in the works for some time now. All we're seeing here is the tensions reaching their breaking point.

Still, this will undoubtedly have an impact on gamers with copious budgets. Intel has maintained their performance lead very strongly for some time now, and nVidia really managed to lay waste to ATI in terms of performance. An Intel and nVidia gaming rig is an orgasm-in-a-box, even without the new synergy between AMD's and ATI's products.

AMD has been taking some big risks here and there. (Disclosing large portions of their hardware specs for the open-source community comes to mind as an example.) I smell a potent storm brewing on the horizon.

@PR-0927:
Performance boost not worth it? Geeze, don't look at the numbers. While they don't lie, they also don't have much to say.

I can sincerely say that having two GeForce 8800 GTS cards in SLI is totally worth it. I can run most of my games at max settings, with higher-than-stock quality texture mods at 2560 x 1600 resolution and get liquid-smooth framerates. (By most games, I mean everything but Crysis.) Pricey? Yes indeed, and it takes a spell of total batshit insanity to take the plunge with nothing but college loans, but I'm not regretting it now that I have it.

Further, SLI is good for future-proofing. Get a cheapish card now, and then when it gets a bit dated and cheaper to purchase, buy another to keep up with performance requirements. That's how my friends do it.

DisposableInterloper

@diabolusunknown:

Intel decided to enter into the market that Nvidia had complete control over...

Step666

@matt buchanan: I still say Intel is the reason that all this shit is happening. There was a clear relationship between Intel and Nvidia after the Core2 releases, in which it made sense to have an Nvidia Video Card with an Intel processor (be it on Nvidia chipset or Intel chipset), while AMD people got their processors and ATI cards. Intel decided to enter into the market that Nvidia had complete control over, and im sure that made Nvidia jumpy, causing all this shit thats happening now. All this will do is make hardware purchases that much more difficult. This better get settled soon (at least Nvidia getting Nehalem).

diabolusunknown

@I Think We're Property: I suppose the movies are due for a rewatch now. It's been so long since I'd last seen them that all I remember about them was that Sigourney Weaver was in them.

Ashe

@Ashe: Please see "Aliens". Includes nigh-archetypal space marines. Show up again to a certain extent in Aliens Resurrection, but I try to avoid thinking about Aliens Resurrection. Also showed up in the Aliens vs Predator games (and some of the comic books & novels, I think), but not the movies.

Game over, man. Game over.

I Think We're Property

@Step666: Actually, the dual-core Isaiahs due out later this year are supposed to be powerful enough for regular desktop use. Don't you remember those videos of the chip running Crysis? It may not be the best thing in the world, but it won't cause a bottleneck in most gaming systems. And once they move on to the next generations, they will have a line that branches off from the low-power CPUs that they have been building and moves towards a more able chip. It would also give NVidia a major advantage in the mobile/embedded world, as the chairwoman of VIA is also the chair of HTC, so cozying up could do nothing but help.

Also, SLI has never been what NVIdia has pushed at the forefront. They have always been more interested in creating a single chip that is powerful enough to do whatever anyone could want with it, considering multi-GPU solutions to be merely stopgaps until the single chips can catch up. SLI is never necessary for too long.

pete_at_brandeis

ooooh how the tables have turned nvidia. after going through three 680i boards until finally deciding to just eat the cost and buy an IP35, I am very happy to see this critical hit to nvidia's motherboard division.

Zodduska

Call SLi a scam if you want, I have dual 8800's and I can tell you this. Its faster, smoother, more fluid motion with dual as opposed to a single card.

tehronin

@disposableinterloper

and i can do nearly the same with a single card 8800 ultra.
SLI is a scam plain and simple.
if Intel told you to run quad core, you needed to have 4 cpus, 4 motherboards, and 4 sets of RAM youd tell them they're crazy. but, for some unknown reason, fanboys of corporate executives seem to think for videocards its a great idea.
marketing dollars in action.

Skullonius.Grimbacher

"Man, where's AMD when you need them?"

In bed with ATI, which makes them no friend of Intel or nVidia. There lies the problem, a little too much protectionism on nVidia's part seeing that they would surely be snatched up by Intel, except Intel isn't makeing love like Microsoft/Yahoo! (ooops!) so that only leads both parties to go against each other. As long as nVidia keeps making x2 cards Intel gamers will still get their SLI, just not the QUAD or 6x that is possible with nVidia.

andrelix

@tehronin: but you are using 2 cards, you would expect twice the speed, but SLI gives you 20%/40% and the second card was just as expensive as the first one. Somewhere down the pipeline, something is effed up and not that well designed...

VakeroRokero

dunno bout all the hype one way or the other, but i like my sli setup, smoooooooth baby, smoooooth, and upgradeable, like now that the 8800gt's are getting affordable
crysis on high is just around the corner!!!

godwhacker

@andrelix: "In bed with" implies that AMD and ATI are separate companies that like to have a fling on the weekends. In reality, AMD ate ATI's liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. mmmthpthptptp.

dingus

screw sli.

crossfire on intel boards all the way.
(just to make sure, the Intel X48 chipset DOES support crossfire right?)

Alfonzo

@DisposableInterloper:

You are one of those people with an insane resolution. While such resolutions are getting popular, I'm pretty sure the majority of gamers don't have resolutions that large or close to that size (I'd assume somewhere between 1280 x 1024 to 1440 x 900 to 1920 x 1200 is what the majority use - I'm a little beyond the mainstream gamer, and I use both 1680 x 1050 and 1920 x 1200). The benefits for the majority are very little, and having just one of the best GPU on the market is more than enough, and can match or come close to SLI performance on the same size.

@Skullonius.Grimbacher:

You said it right.

- PR-0927

PR-0927

@PR-0927:
Youre wrong about SLI being useless.
Look for reviews on the 9600GT in SLI. Its cheaper and performs better than a 9800GTX.

Sli also doesnt result in a higher maximum Fps, but more of a steady unmoveable lowest Fps rating.

desostros

@icelight: Apple dropped PowerPC for Intel around the same time Microsoft chose PowerPC for the Xbox 360's CPU. Add the fact that Microsoft has owned ~12% of AAPL shares (6x more than Steve Jobs owns) since a $150,000,000 deal at $4.19 a share back in 1999 and you've got a giant drama clusterf***.

tex1ntux

@Skullonius.Grimbacher:
Oh really now? I can tell you that after the update to Vista SP1, my SLI settings were reset from some bizarre reason. What happened that made me notice it? All my games slowed to a crawl, and Crysis was rendered utterly unplayable.

Look, companies put out expensive things that have a weaker price-to-performance ratio than their mid-range. For a lot of gamers, it doesn't make sense budget-wise. However, it's not a scam.

@PR-0927:
Here's the thing: I cited myself as an example of someone who could benefit from a high-range SLI setup. My friends, though, use SLI as a cost-saving measure. It's hard to deny that the boost one gains from SLI is worth it when the price of a second graphics card goes down a generation and a half later.

For example, one friend recently built a new PC to replace his aging one. His mobo is SLI-capable and he got himself a GeForce 8800 GT. Pretty decent card, especially considering price, but it will get a wee bit dated by the time the next wave of 9-series models comes out. Likewise, it'll be much cheaper. The performance to be gained is going to be cheaper than buying a new mid-range card.

DisposableInterloper

SMH @ you all missing the big picture. Eventually Intel and Nvidia are going to come together as one, just like in the AVP2 movie with the Predalien thing =)

Ricorich196

SLI is a total waste of money. It's a very niche product.

EnzoFX

@EnzoFX:
Goddammit, stop saying things that you obviously know nothing about.
As said in my previous post, buy a cheap e6700,2 gigs of normal ram, and 750I sli mobo (cheap-o...and take into considiration that 790i SLI gains are like 3 fps over the 750i), and put two 9600GTs in there.

You'll have a computer for what...maybe 600 bucks that performs way better than a standalone card that costs 600 bucks by itself.

People, SLI is the way to go for maximum performance/price ratio out there.
Dont believe me, believe the reviews.

Just google 9600GT SLI review.

desostros

INTEL wont lose anything. They dont have SLI license anyway. NVIDIA WILL LOSE if they dont get the Nehalem license.

On the other hand, gamers dont need superfast CPUs anyway.AMD CPUs are more than enough for games. I always use low end CPU with high end GPU and the result is superb gaming with superb price

KroKan

@EnzoFX:
That's how it was with its debut, which was like a millennium ago in Internet time. Things change fast. SLI really does make sense today.

@KroKan:
Well, Skulltrail used SLI controllers that Intel purchased, and didn't use a liscensed nVidia chipset, so you have a point there. However, I doubt Intel will do that again, considering Larabee is set to debut soon.

Intel might possibly stand to lose its performance crown, since Larabee is designed to be completely programmable, and lacks features specific for DirectX and OpenGL. While Larabee would be great for a game engine based on ray tracing versus what ATI and nVidia have on the table, everyone uses polygon rendering and even ray traced lighting and shadows are a good way away.

DisposableInterloper

@desostros:

You're missing the point - I had already said SLI does give SOME boost. My point is that it isn't cost-worthy (the 9600 being more cost-worthy than other cards in SLI). The cards in SLI might cost as much as a 9800 GTX, but you're not counting the price of a more expensive PSU, and reliable cooling (most likely liquid cooling). And if you're willing to spend that much money, might as well just spend a little more and buy a single 9800 GX2 (or whatever the flagship card is at the moment, previously it would be better to buy a single 8800 Ultra than two 8600s in SLI).

- PR-0927

PR-0927

AMD/ATi has got nothing. I would frankly be surprised if ATi is still offering new cards in 5 years. Their business model is so janky, and they're getting the crap kicked out of them by nVidia every time they release a card.

ATi cards run hotter, slower, more complex calculations, and are lower-spec'ed than the nVidia counterparts before they even launch. nVidia is so far ahead of the game it's scary. They have the next-gen cards already completed, but they're sitting on them because there's no competition.

DaOtter

yeah, kinda sucks balls, my next build (assuming AMD does not pull off some sort of miracle ...not likely) will be an Intel motherboard...and I kinda want SLI too.

rainfever

@ViperBorg: Oh... and HDMI FTW!

ViperBorg

@PR-0927: Speak for yourself, bub. I'll keep enjoying my SLI setup on my 65" 1080p display, thanks. :)

ViperBorg

@DaOtter:
The merger between AMD and ATI has nothing to do with putting out a better video card. Radically new CPUs are being designed right now, and ATI's resources are vital for AMD to keep up in the long run in the CPU market.

If anyone is doomed, it's nVidia. GPUs, as we know them now, will wither away in due time. I'd wager that nVidia will push ever harder for the mobile market to try and establish itself as a mobile CPU manufacturer.

DisposableInterloper

@ViperBorg:

Does no one read? Never mind, dumb question. You're using a 65" HDTV as your display. The resolution is 1920 x 1080. SLI isn't really cost-worthy for more massive resolutions (I'd say around 1920 x 1200/1920 x 1080 and up). MOST mainstream gamers don't game at such high resolutions, making SLI rather wasteful.

YES, it provides benefits. YES, two 9600s in SLI may perform better than one 9800 GTX. However, the additional costs (money and otherwise) aren't really worth it, UNLESS you really need it (much larger resolutions - most gamers don't have this).

So that's why I'm saying that a detriment for SLI stuff will not, IMO, affect mainstream gamers as much.

Plus, if people really wanted multiple GPUs during an "nVidia - Intel War," they could just use ATIs in CrossFire (that's what it's called right?).

- PR-0927

PR-0927

"two GeForce 8800 GTS cards in SLI is totally worth it"

It is.

But any more than two of (anything other than GeForce 8800 GTS) is not worth it.

ROI (return on investment) starts to go the wrong way with any card other than the 8800 GTS (g92's).

axiomatic

Actually, any of the newer Intel motherboard that have two or more PCI-e slots are Crossfire compatable. I happened to have picked one up tonight (DX38T). So while Intel has been beating AMD over the head on the CPU front, this little dust-up between Intel & Nvidia is going to do nothing but help AMD/ATI. Intel hasn't been foolish enough to put all it's eggs in one basket so far. However, if push came to shove with Nvidia, I am sure Intel could afford to shut them out of the mobo chipset race for nice "time out" session until they behaved themselves properly (in Intel's eyes). Remember Intel doesn't need Nvidia but Nvidia does need Intel. The only one this little spat helps really is AMD/ATI. If Intel keeps thier pimp hand strong then they will just sell lots of Intel motherboards with Crossfire X built-in and Nvidia will suddenly be pushing AMD compatable SLI shipsets like crazy. Of course if Intel does shut out Nvidia, what is to keep AMD from doing the same and then lets see how well the House of SLI does. Personally, I think this three-way "frienamies" dance does us all good.

CassandraAgraulus

As a user of SLI, I sure hope that Intel and nvidia kiss and make up. For me and my 22'' monitor, SLI is a huge help. With only 1 8800gt, it can do ALMOST full setting at 1680x1050, the only thing notched down would be AA. I always wait until the next generation of cards come out, this time the 98xx series to buy the second 8800gt, so the price is about 1/2 or less than when the 88xx first came out. With 2 in SLI, they can usually outperform or do the same as the new gen big budget card (9800gtx). Plus, 2 graphics cards look damn cool.

MasterLow

I know how Intel works, I have seen it first hand. They are completely dysfunctional as a company, but make no mistake. Intel will crush nVidia if this actually becomes a war.

agpc

@PR-0927: Wouldn't know. I keep away from ATI at all costs. I was just tossin' my $0.02 out there, man. Didn't mean any offense.

ViperBorg

@pete_at_brandeis: Something like an NVIDIA+VIA merger can't just happen because NVIDIA and VIA want it to happen. Intel has to approve of anyone manufacturing x86 chips because they hold the license. And AFAIK Intel and AMD have to approve of the 64-bit technology due to their x86-64 cross licensing agreements.

A Puckish Satire of Contemporary Mores

@ViperBorg:

Haha, I know, just needed to state stuff for the record.

And about staying away from ATI - of course.

:P

Although, brand loyalty leads you nowhere. I'm just a follower of the best.

- PR-0927

PR-0927

I for one just want to see the power of a Macbook Pro in the shell/case of a Macbook. The only thing lacking in my Macbook is the integrated graphics - which is crappy.

Show me a decent graphics card in a Macbook, and I'll be stoked Nvidia.

CutePuppyz

@PR-0927: pair of BFG Tech 8600GTs(256MBGDDR3 flavor) running 1440x900 DVI..no complaints.
saving up to get a 24" LCD and probably some 8800GTs..

akmarksman