@Substance_D:
Yea genius? :rolleyes:

So tell me how that technology magically "restores" lost data? Compression removes data to make files smaller... once that data is gone - it's gone for good. Period.

Good compression will minimize the loss to the point that you don't hear much of a difference, but there is still a difference. You can extrapolate what that lost data is. You can emphasize certain other parts of the data to reduce the appearance of lost data, but you have lost data none the less.

Hazdaz

Mentioning the Zen X-Fi in the same context with Zune and iPod Touch isn't fair. Integrated wifi doesn't mean anything, it's function are what matters - Zune doesn't have IM or streaming functions, and the Zen doesn't (our present knowledge, at least) have web browsing capabilities.

rospaya

@shenanigans: you couldn't be any more wrong.
and most GOOD companies have phased out hard drive players or are in the process of doing so(Cowon). Sony doesn't make HD-based players(although the nw-hd5 was supposedly amazing sounding), samsung did away with them, sandisk did away w/them, as did creative.

I have the Cowon D2 and it's one of the most amazing players out there. I have an 8gb with an 8gb slot and also not to mention the EQ and sound tweaking it has, and the incredible built-in amplifier.

Tsumi91

Dominated by the Zune also?

Ken_Darrow

Problem 1: Too many buttons.

Problem 2: SD card. Everyone knows internal hard drives = faster access times. Even Microsoft wasn't stupid enough to do this with the Zune.

Problem 3: Screen-size is tooooo small.

Verdict: EpicLOLFail

They would have done a better job if they decided to try and knock off of the iPhone/Ipod Touch.

shenanigans

Sounds like...

Hmm...

I didn't know perfection was so...silent...

Musta Fail!

doobiebros22

@Hazdaz: You're BS. X-Fi is a legit technology, that's probably in your computer if you have a halfway decent soundcard.

Substance_D

Ha, X-Fi. Cowon did this with the X5 that came with "MP3Enhance" which was supposed to make up for lossy compression as well. I never turn it on because adding more processing/manipulation to music is a battery-drainer. Probably doesn't do much anyway. Mach3Bass and the equalizer are enough for me. Go lossless if you want "The Sound of Perfection." The bigger file-size, higher bitrate, etc. of lossless will probably have the drain on your battery as some gimicky alleged audio technology.

Captain Bringdown

"which restores lost data in compressed music files to create concert-like audio effects"

Yea ok, that's completely marketing BS.

Still though, more competition in the Portable Media Player market is of course a good thing. I do find it curious if that they wanted to make this also a TXTing device, why limit it to just 9 keys.

Pricing will play a big role as to if this gains any marketshare or not. A 3rd big player in the field will help keep Apple and MS honest.

Hazdaz

Screen size?

daftrok

@willentrekin:

Yeah, I had the Creative Zen when it first came out... 20gb... it was an amazing device, which I probably would have kept if it weren't for the fact that it doesn't work with Macs... and the fact that I like my 160gb ipod better ;)

cloudnine

"reminiscent of the iPhone,"

How? Because it's black, or something? Oy.

Concerning X-fi, I purchased an X-Mod a while ago and it was one of the single greatest audio investments I've ever made, second probably only to my Grado SR80s.

I like Creative. Always have. Zen was among the first and best mp3 players; the Nomad Jukeboxes were, back in the day, pretty awesome.

I would have chosen Creative when I finally bought an audio player last year, but Apple was, unfortunately, the only company that made a player with 160gb of storage (and I've nearly filled that completely up already, too). I totally fucking hate this flash trend; I'd be fine with a slightly larger, thicker player if it could hold, say, 320gb.

willentrekin

Did I read that the Zen needed to catch-up to the Zune? I hope not.... They are nowhere.... isn't the lay of the land: If you care about iTunes (and it's getting better all the time) then an iPod is the way to go. If not get the best and the Zune it isn't. Creative does good work!

altus

I can see my ipod hating friends getting this then telling me it's better than my touch because "it has moar buttonz!"

halcalanky

@Ariel_Wollinger:

WTF: No wonder I won a mp4 player of the year in 2006 or 2007 I think.

correction
...it won mp3....

Ariel_Wollinger

@cloudnine: Also:
Them vision M kicks iPods ass hard! no need to sync , just drag everything to the player, which appears as a drive, disconnect it, wait about ten seconds and all the songs are in the database! No need to reconvert videos, it plays almost everything!! Radio, tv out without docks. Amazing mp3. No wonder I won a mp4 player of the year in 2006 or 2007 I think.

Ariel_Wollinger

@cloudnine:
I had that too! ugly but amazing!!!The damm thing I sold to a friend of mine that completely destroyed its case, by losing all the screws and the thing still works! it is a tank!!

Ariel_Wollinger

@Ken_Darrow: What's a Zune?

eddiesdguy

@willentrekin: "reminiscent of the iPhone,"

How? Because it's black, or something? Oy.

And yes, the shiny black surface, chrome bezel and rounded back does look vaguely reminiscent of the iPhone.

someToast

@Hazdaz:

Apparently the theory behind X-fi is that its smart enough to recognize the algorithm used to compress 24-bit digital masters down to the 16-bit used on CDs, and then use an inverse to upsample back again.

So, the restoring lost quality thing with x-fi isn't about lossy MP3s, its about a shift from CD to DVDA quality. No clue if the data it looks for to decide how to upsample even survives compression.

Any which way, X-fi cards sound great. If they really have managed to port the technology into a music player this thing should have great sound.

citizensmith

looks interesting, Creative generally makes a decent player.

Vindicare86

@Hazdaz: Technology can do amazing things my friend. Go look up X-Fi somewhere if you still don't believe in it's capabilities.

Voohoo

Those buttons remind me of the buttons on the Sony Ericsson K810i. From what I heard they are uncomfy.

I can't imagine typing out something on Yahoo Mess with those buttons...I think my iPod touch is fine thank you very much.

CutePuppyz

Only if you redefine "vaguely reminiscent" to mean "doesn't resemble in the slightest fscking way"

drewls

urgh... would they stop with the "restores loss from".. blah blah

You don't know what used to be there. So stop adding fake noise to my MP3s. It's not better.

but no need to take my word for it... the X-Fi BS effects have been available for years now. Buy an X-Fi card for your PC and turn on the "crystalizer" and see what happens. Whatever that means.

kaneshadow

@eddiesdguy:

Oh a Zune?

It's just the best mp3 player when it comes to cost per feature.

I'll go so far to say as it has something better than every mp3 player ever.

Cursemaster0

The Creative Zen line has always been ridiculously awesome. I'd take one any day over an ipod. sound quality, FM, line-in recording, mic, gorgeous screens....

Zlevee

There are many things I see in my iPod Touch that can be approved...

That last word should be 'improved'

Hiphopopotamus

There are many things I see in my iPod Touch that can be approved...

A 9-direction button pad is certainly not one. Not even in the top 1,000.

Hiphopopotamus

Seriously, I'm excited for this despite the fact that i probably won't buy it. the reasons I like it are:

1. it is kind of sexy
2. you know the sound quality will be better than the ipod
3. I'm sure it will have very good codec support
4. more competition in this space is always better
5. interesting added functionality

MrBlahBlah

Creative will never be as cool as they used to be, in my book. Their designs throw me off, this just doesn't seem like a huge step forward for them.

Metkis

@Tsumi91: Great. 16GB of memory.

Oh wait, I have 35GB of music.

HDD-based players are still better for anyone who has a respectable music collection.

Z4N5H1N

To hell with you and your negative comments! That's my negative comment of the day.

cafenitro

Creative still seems to be thinking inside the box, offering one feature at a time. Great it has wifi, so let me guess, it can stream music to a receiver without the use of a docking station.

The ipod touch has wifi to, and it can surf the internet, and download applications from 4000 approved developers and... and...

Creative has proven time and time again producing a phone with superior sound/features then the competition makes you lose market share, and yet here is another such device that appears to have no potential to gain back any of said lost market share.

SuperSan

@Z4N5H1N: I do you hope you mean 32gb, not simply 16. 64gb for small devices is not far in the future, either.

shadowthief0

See, but what about left-handed users? Friends of mine have this issue with my Zen, as well. They need to give, to both devices, the ability to rotate the view 180 degrees.

shadowthief0

@someToast--
"You left out "vaguely" in "vaguely reminiscent".

And yes, the shiny black surface, chrome bezel and rounded back does look vaguely reminiscent of the iPhone."

Well, I guess that makes me vaguely reminiscent of Brad Pitt. Because we both have hair, and eyes, and a nose.

Good to know!

Because really it looks a little more like an old Sony multi-media device (by old I mean from, like, 2003 or so). The area where the buttons are was a bumpy touchpad sort of thing.

willentrekin

yea... high capacity flash drives coming up soon... worth the wait if i could have my fat ass zen vision m in 160 GB flash..... that's serious drool material... zens sound great...video support amazing... x-fi is bloody good... wonder shall they decide to do the ZenTouch..hahaha...

snowy_coke

@citizensmith: The X-fi does no such thing, it's actually just a multi-band compressor.

sambafish

@Substance_D: [www.digit-life.com] <- Creative's Crystalizer debunked

sambafish

@Zlevee: iPod sound quality is as good as a CD or DVD player through a dock connection.

cnocbui

@SuperSan:

Behind in features? Ipods are yet to add in features such as on-the-fly active playlist enqueueing, track searching/filtering, "previewing" tracks (you can pause your currently playing song A, and play song B, and when song B is over, song A will pick up where it left off). Creative has had this and EAX in their players for generations. Did I mention support for multiple audio file formats?

@Zlevee:

That makes the two of us. I still have my 40GB Zen Xtra and I love it. Sure, I admit it's a brick compared to the newer ipods, but it is amazing, does everything I want it to do in an MP3 player and more, and only cost me $100!

horspowr1001

@shenanigans: flash access has always been faster than HDD access, and still is. Anyways, it's not like it won't have internal storage.

Also, how do you even know the screen size?

Creative has always made the best-sounding products hands down. No other makers have ever really been able to compete in that department (maybe cowon?).

I'm amazed that all of you can judge a product so heavily this long before the release. Control yourselves.

dekigo92

@cnocbui: That just shows you how little people know about non-ipod MP3 players. The Zen line has consistently had a better signal-to-noise ratio than the ipod line.

It also has consistentley had better battery life. I didn't even mention above the wider audio standard compatibility, FM recording that some models offer, higher screen resolution and more colors, expandable memory offered by the some models, removable battery....

Zlevee

...to bad I'll never buy another Creative product again for as long as I live!!!!

Horrible company with horrible customer service/tech support!

JEmlay

@sambafish: Bingo. Nothing can "restore" lost audio data, or upconvert with data that isn't there - it's like trying to use data recovery software to get a movie off your hard drive that was never there in the first place. If there were an algorithm that dynamically examined MP3 files to "upconvert" them to better quality, it'd either have to be amazingly written or it'd just add a lot of noise... and we all know how Creative performs on the driver/software front. The X-Fi's Crystallizer is really a multi-band compressor that reduces noise and emphasizes certain ranges. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it sure is a dumb way to market it.

Ubik2501

@SuperSan:
Yeah, all those 'phone's that I see Creative producing really don't match Apple.....

@kaneshadow:
@Ubik2501:
Take a listen to X-Fi, it doesn't really matter how it works, cos it sounds great, and will make a great Mp3 player.

@shadowthief0:
As a leftie, I totally agree! Lefties unite!

slibuntu