Audiophile Deathmatch: Monster Cables vs. a Coat Hanger
Whether or not Monster Cables are worth it is a war that has raged since home theatre immemorial. A poster at Audioholics was put in a room with five fellow audiophiles, and a Martin Logan SL-3 speaker set at 75Db at 1000KHz playing a mix of “smooth, trio, easy listening jazz” that no one had heard before. In one corner, Monster 1000 speaker cables. In the other, four coat hangers twisted and soldered into a speaker cable.
Seven songs were played while the group was blindfolded and the cables swapped back and forth. Not only “after 5 tests, none could determine which was the Monster 1000 cable or the coat hanger wire,” but no one knew a coat hanger was used in the first place.
Further, when music was played through the coat hanger wire, we were asked if what we heard sounded good to us. All agreed that what was heard sounded excellent, however, when A-B tests occured, it was impossible to determine which sounded best the majority of the time and which wire was in use.
It’s possible these guys weren’t super-hardcore audiophiles that might not be able to tell the difference, but it largely goes with what we’ve found in our own tests of Monster Cable: The lower end can perform just as well, though we don’t really recommend re-wiring your home theatre after a firesale on wire hangers. [Audioholics via Consumerist]
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Just stumbled on this… backs up what I’ve been thinking for years… Know of a few “audiophiles” who just happen to have some hearing defect, but are in denial over this. I know because, upon visiting them some times, it is me who has to alert them to a knock on the door, or other sound they did not hear. One of them even admits to having an earwax problem, yet still insists on digitizing his entire vinyl collection onto .WAV, not high grade mp3 or AAC or whatever, at the expense of hard drive space. I think ‘normal’ folk will reach a point where they are satisfied with what they have but *some* audiophiles on a constant quest are quite possibly looking in the wrong place!
However, ‘normal’ folk with mediocre kit will be happy until they compare it to something better – & I do think improvements are to be had, just that there are limits… after that, it becomes peer pressure in audiophile circles.
“…..yet still insists on digitizing his entire vinyl collection onto .WAV, not high grade mp3 or AAC or whatever.”
Am I missing something?
I was of the understanding that .WAV is an uncompressed format that retains the detail of the source with no compromise.
‘high grade mp3′ was and remains as far as I am aware, a lossy compressed format that strips out the detail of the source in the name of a smaller file size.
AAC whilst considered to be the ’successor’ to mp3 is also a lossy compressed format.
WAV is uncompressed and thus any self respecting ‘audiophile’ or anyone who actually cares about their music sounding the best it possibly can, would obviously be insisting that it be digitized into the best available format.
He may have ear wax problems, but a bit of digging with a q-tip will sort that out.
Similarly a bit of digging and a bit of independent thought may actually reveal some things to be more than they seem.
Ignorance is never a defense.
Food for thought my friend.
I would consider myself a light audiophile, and I agree, cables can be a big scam. I *do* think that to some degree cables are a factor…I would gladly opt for a well built cable over – ahem – coat hangers; however once you’ve got a decent cable (around $15-30 USD is a good price point IMO) there’s no need to go above that level of quality unless you have a specialized application like a really long run or something like that.
I’m an audiophile. However I don’t have a home theater system. My sound is a 75w guitar amp in the back, 25 watt bass amp in the front, an old stereo probably also 25 watts, and two computer speakers. So in this particular argument between monster audio and regular audio I’ve never used either of them. Now when it comes to guitar and bass, My monster cables sound at least 25% better than the cheapo ones, plus I can get them replaced for free if they go bad. As for regular audio cables, there probably isn’t much of a difference. But I’d like to find out for myself
What about Monster Cables vs Toslink?
I thank you, Chris, for completely missing the point. I mean, really, in such spectacular fashion…it’s not easy. Dude, you’re not even in the same country as the point. You’re in like, a completely different galaxy from the point. The point exists solely on a dimension you have no possible chance of perceiving, let alone the point itself.
I’m done.
I do think at least you’d want some insulation, I’d imagine you’d get quite a bit of crosstalk on a coat hanger outside of a very controlled environment, but outside of that I have no surprise at the outcome.
What I would like to see is some professional audiophiles from magazines, etc. take the challenge and see if they can see the difference. I’m not sure what credentials you need to be considered an “audiophile” (I mean it literally means you like music, and I think most of us qualify), but someone who is credentialled like an audiophile magazine writer would be the best choice.
While I don’t believe the large cost of Monster Cables is justified, I’d like to know more details about these tests.
I should think the conductivity of a coat hanger would be quite high, perhaps even close to the conductivity of a monster cable.
I’d say the main difference would lie in the shielding. Therefore you would only really notice the difference in sound if the cables were running through an area where there was a lot of interferance that could be induced.
Dude, even at 15 USD, you’re getting scammed. You can *make* excellent cables for less than the cost of the materials AND your labour.
@Stephen
I have built cables in the past, even sold them at one point. Frankly the time and effort involved isn’t worth the trouble anymore. To do a really good job with litz braiding, shielding, techflex, etc. takes a few hours at least. Subtracting the cost of materials I’m doing that work for $5 / hour if we set the cost at $15. I’d rather pay and be done with it!
Uhh sean… Litz wire? For inter-component connections, standard coax cable is fine.
And figure-8 cable to the speakers.
As long as you have a reliable physical connection from centre pin of RC connector to the centre conductor of the coax, you’ll be fine.
first of all, Monster is mid-fi at best. it ISNT much better than coathanger wire. playback hardware plays a part too. you wont hear much difference in cable if you are using an Onkyo receiver. if you were using an OTL Atmasphere power amp and a nice Audio Research tube preamp, you might here more accuracy. finally, did these ‘audiophiles’ have a thorough understanding of soundstage, paplpable presense, and phase anomalies?
just remember–some people think the food at Cracker Barrell is great. and some people think the Traveling Wilburys CDs were recording perfection. and that a Cannondale bike is the ultimate riding experience.
just because someone has a big home theater with deep bass does not mean they understand accurate acoustical presentation in a stereo. a Linn setup with small speakers and medium power blows away the best stereo system at Best Buy in terms of accuracy, musicality, and soundstage.
and MP3s are good enough? please. if you cant hear the difference you should be forced to listen to Heather Montana for the rest of your life.
My my, it certainly sucks to be you. The audiophiles are crying in full force on this one…. waahhhhh wahhhhhh. LOL.
Obvious troll is obvious.
who is heather montana dude??
You work for Monster? The few that can afford the “top” in audio equipment will buy Monster cables at monster prices. For the rest of us there is cables we can but at Target, WalMart, Monoprice and be just as happy with the results.
If they were using Martin Logan speakers, its safe to assume they are not using a shitty source or amp. I would put money on them using a high end source + amp.
Oh Hai !
Your sound installation may be as sophisticated and expensive as can be and some home theatres are VERY expensive, the human ear is what you are born with. Period.
VERY FEW people (less than 1 in a million) are blessed (?) with what is known as “absolute hearing” and those who have it, only have it for part of their life.
Also, when listening to a piece of music for assessment puposes, that piece of music ought to be played to perfection, by top musicians using the best instruments available, tuned spot-on. Ok, forget that, that does not even happen by coincidence.
Taking in account the above, it would be practically impossible to perceive audible differences caused by cable quality. One could solder trash cans together and it would probably still work.
ANY good (cheap) co-ax with terminals properly attached will do, considering the natural limitations of one’s hearing.
Kthxbai.
Takeo.
in my experience, speaker cables rarely make much of a difference in sound – the only time I’ve heard a difference is when the wire gauge was way to small. So, this result is what I would have expected. The interconnects though, for example from preamp to power amp do make a major difference – in fact the absolute worse interconnects (on my system) were some I made from twinax (doubly shielded coax)and the best I made were double twisted shielded pair (I use a balanced XLR type cable for pre to power amp) – and much to my surprise, there was a difference in sound depending on how the pairs were wired.
Good point regarding the hearing loss of people who consider themselves to be “audiophiles”.
Kip.
you’re a douchebag.
Banishing people who can’t tell the difference between wav and mp3 would leave only a handfull of people on earth..I say handfull because most of you who claim to be able to tell the difference are just bullshitting yourself into believing you can percieve differences.
your 98 khz 24 bit audio isn’t getting you laid. No one cares.
those must have been high quality coathangers.
What was the gauge # for the coat hanger wires? Just kidding… but really feel sorry for those who can tell the diff betn mp3 and wav… or monster v chicken wire: this world must be so noisy for them! I have trained my brain to filter out static from AM and SW radio, however, when listening to acoustic music. And what’s the point of listening to Hard Rock, e.g., if the elec guitar don’t get to pass on that crackly sustained note?
Vick, I agree with you 90% about KIP, but actually there’s a huge difference between MP3/AAC and WAV, some of the newer codecs eclipse all three, like FLAC/OGG, moreso 96/24.
I don’t personally claim to have fantastic hearing, but you only have to hear ONE really bad compressed track ripped from CD to know what you’re missing.
As for Monster Cable, it’s more of the Brand factor, it looks nice. But a group of friends and I compared some $100/m audiophile cable on top-end NAD/KEF hardware, against soldered heavy gauge Mains Electrical Wire, and the difference was barely noticeable. The results suggest to me that the important thing here is adequate shielding and reliable connections — if you can get both of those bases covered, you can save a lot of $$$ for no perceptible sound loss.
“and a Martin Logan SL-3 speaker set at 75Db at 1000KHz playing a mix”…. presumably Db is ths same as dB and I doubt anyone could hear 1000KHz. Still, it must be true as this is the Internet…
The Law of Diminishing Returns applies here. As long as you use better cable than the crap supplied with most reasonably-priced equipment, you’ll hear the difference with the same source.
monster cables suck just for the record i have them and they never work
Let’s see, lead/tin solder on the circuit boards, copper for PCB traces, carbon for volume controls, nickel plated switch contacts, tinned copper leads on the ICs, zinc, nickel, and gold flashed contacts for cables all to reproduce sound that was recorded using copper conductor mic cables with a braided tinned copper shield using a variety of patch bay connections and cable types.
Yep! I can sure see where 10 feet of Litz cable or Monster cables will make the difference in reproduction accuracy.
Guys, if 2,3,4 or more amps and source devices do not have identical acoustically perfect (impossible) reproduction, then there is no way to claim that one ridiculously overpriced and totally hyped cable is better than standard old Home Depot Romex for permanent installs or SJO portable cables for portable systems.
BTW several audio testing labs over many years have all concluded that the oxygen free, Monster (et al) cable hooey is first rate BS.
You must also consider the individual doing the listening and his frequency response and overall amplitude sensitivity, room acoustics, temperature and humidity, altitude, source material, and equipment reproduction linearity.
factor the crappy “music” being recorded and all this is just an exercise in futility and monetary waste.
lol….I gotta call BS on this one. This “experiment” is a scam and the person who started this is laughing his/her a** off.
Hear, hear! There is a persistent meme out there that says “More expensive is always better!” Sometimes it’s true, but there are cases where the point of diminishing returns is low, as in speaker cables. *NOBODY* can really hear the difference between $1000/ft solid-silver, Teflon-insulated litz cables assembled by Tibetan virgins and 16AWG zip cord. There are several effects that can make you think you can:
Unless you listen in an anechoic chamber, there will be standing waves. At 1KHz, an acoustic wavelength is a little more than 11 inches, so there can be a deep null less than half a foot from a peak. At higher frequencies, it’s worse; the 10-KHz wavelength is only 1.11 inches, so just moving your head makes a difference. If you get up and sit down in a slightly different position, what you hear will vary, even if the sound field does not change at all.
If you get up, walk over and bend down to change cables, your heart rate and blood pressure will rise a little. That can make a subtle difference in your hearing.
Most importantly, knowing which cable is which will color your perception. That’s why all legitimate listening tests of audio systems are conducted double-blind.
There are people who justifiably pay a lot for their speaker cables. They build systems for rock concerts, and what they are paying for is abrasion-resistant jackets, heavy-duty connectors, and enough extra copper to hold the total resistance down in long runs. They don’t pay as much per foot as the audiophool market tolerates. The $480 wooden volume-control knob is gone, but its spirit lives on.
Good points Bill Bloomquist. However, the reality is simply this: Every medium you run an audio signal through….does color it. If you care enough to take advantage of the nice fidelity and soundstage that high end cables offer, by all mean…pay the money. : ) If you don’t care…or can’t hear it….don’t pay it. It’s that simple, people. BTW, this coathanger thing is fake. Focker out.
Well, ya know…. 36 gauge speaker wire will introduce some signal losses (I*R readily pops to mind) such that getting 75db (decibel is lower case db, not ‘Db’) into 8 ohm speakers will incur some voltage losses which even 90 year old AM radio class ears should hear problems with. Try THAT test and see! I know there IS a difference SOMEWHERE. Maybe 40 gauge versus 4 gauge? Everyone seems to want to smack a company name or a persons reputation as opposed to testing the actual range of possibilities. 40 ga versus 18 ga versus 8 ga versus Monster cables versus coat hangers versus welding rod versus 4″ junior beam….. that ought to cover the …. oh. wait. OFHC copper versus nonOFHC copper versus 24k gold plated versus platinum plated versus silver plated….. and rope lay versus Litz versus parallel strand versus coaxial versus…..
Aw dang. Did I just fudge your experiment?
I own what you would call a mid range hifi system. Thousands spend on amplifiers, speakers, sub and cables. Infact, almost more spent on cable than the rest of the system.
Guess what the biggest change in sound came from?
Not 5k speakers with kevlar cones and tapered tube ti tweeters yady yah.
Cables. Yes.. I said it. Cables made the biggest difference out of every component I have ever purchased. I’m not talking monster or pudney, I’m talking top of the range audioquest gear about as thick as a hosepipe in a bi-amp setup. It made the rig come alive, soundstage, presentation, depth.. anything you listen for – it improved in leaps and bounds. It took over 100 hours of wearing in to reach a golden clear sound. With these cables you can tell straight away if the rig is not warmed up enough. Once it is though, you’re in for a treat :)
I’ve said all along that monsters are complete crap and this just about proves it. However, real cables on a real system with ears that know what to listen for, is a whole different deal…
Bullshit…plain and simple.
Wear in and warm up on a system to make a difference in sound? You’ve prolly got vermin in yer walls that get scared and start moving when you crank your “rig” up.
I am ceaselessly amazed by “audiophuks” who think that $$$ = better sound. A smart shopper (one who researches his/her purchases) will save beau coup $$$ and get a very nice sound from their home theatre…and enjoy it in the process.
I’m not gonna get into the argument over the whole cable thing…it’s been debunked so many times, I am frankly tired of slapping people in the face with facts.
People will convince themselves that they “hear” or “feel” things that simply aren’t there if you tell them often enough to expect it…seems those who think MP3 encoding or $10 cables will bring the overall value of their “rig” down to human standards…It’s really such a pity to only be able to play sounds humans can hear when you paid for something that should command the attention of every dog within miles.
Idiots.
99% of everyone who argues the point of “more expensive cables produce better sound” does so for the ability to tell their associates that they have the best equipment that money can buy. It’s a status thing, and quite childish in it’s simplicity, not to mention completely idiotic sounding to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
I consider myself to be a diligent lover or music (in all of it’s myriad forms)…and I am a performance artist (I play music as a side job)…and unless the venue supplies cables (which I have yet to see), I’m going to hook up with my $25 cables from Best Buy.
I’ve never had a complaint yet.
That’s why my company, AtrociouSSound, will be providing new high-end hanger-based cabling solutions to meet the needs of the sound-conscience listener.
Is that a dead ringer, or a hanger?
Find out!
If the cable run is short, under ten feet or so, any well made cable will do. ‘Monster’ cables won’t make a difference.
The electrical properties of a cable can be measured – including those that can affect the signal delivered to the amp or the speaker. (the first being much more susceptible to issues than the latter.
It is possible that a very long run of cheap will alter the signal in a perceptible way. High and low frequencies are affected differently in transmission through the cable. This can be heard if the problem is bad… However, the only way to introduce this type of change into the signal would be over a considerable distance.
Another issue is shielding. If the cable from the device into the amp or preamp is poorly shielded, it will pick up noise from the environment which will definitely affect the signal in an audible way.
The only other issue is power. In the case of speaker cables, if you listen at high volumes and use a high power amplifier, you should use a cable that is build to handle that kind of power. However, even lamp cord can easily handle 100 Watts of audio. You’d only need something more substantial than lamp cord if you were running a pro style sound system in a large room or club.
The conclusion: High priced deluxe audio cables are a sham for most buyers. If you aren’t sure you need one, you probably do not need one. Any moderately priced shielded (for your component to amplifier) or 16 gauge lamp cord for your speakers (buy at a dept store or hardware store) will do, and you’ll save a bunch of money that you can put into your speakers – which are the weakest chain almost any audio system.
Hey, I used to buy 15Amp extension cords, cut off the plugs, and use THEM for speaker wires. Worked just as good as Monster. Although, I HAVE had a pair of Monster cables for nearly 25 years and they are as good as they were when they were new. No degradation or corrosion. But, my hearing isn’t all that great to begin with.
I am a big believer that IF you have a high powered amp (over 300 watts) and GOOD speakers, you NEED good cables. Gold plated? Maybe not. Fiber-optics? What happened to fiber-optics?
What’s really hilarious, is the “premium” digital cables. It’s a digital signal. It fucking works, or doesn’t. Period.
Digital Cables?
Wow…And I thought the expensive cabling was a joke…
Analog signal can degrade, but digital is either on…or off…how can you fuck that up?
Ye Gods! what morons we have among us.