Dieter Rams' work for Braun has pretty much always been hailed as classic even when it was new. ICON magazine did a retrospective of his work a few years ago and the influence he had on Ive's work was mentioned there too.

nevin

Well done, the comparisons are great!

fusedinertia

I suddenly feel the urge to listen to Kraftwerk now.

jonnyobrien

@Pope John Peeps II: Agreed. It might not be <200 words, but its a thinky-worthy, somewhat-servicey piece.

joshalism

Well... If you're going to steal, steal from the best.

These are exceptional examples of good design, both in their genesis and modern use.

/not a mac user
//design fanatic

the_caveat

If you think this is nifty, wait till you see what Andrew Ryan has come up with...

JesusDeSaad

GREAT ARTICLE: fascinating! When I was a kid I love Led Zeppelin because of their "originality." Then I found out years later that Jimmy Page was notorious for "Taking inspiration" from many sources and blatantly ripping off some old black artists who had no rights to their own material at the time. There's even a compilation CD called "Led Astray" featuring many of those tunes. But in the long run, like with APPLE, it's who refines the idea and gets it to market that gets rewarded. Sorry Dieter, life's not fair. Go APPLE!

bramachari

Wow! So cool to see that everything old IS new.....when i was a kid, we had a neighbor who was an artist---he had one of those cylindrical fans that moved a ton of air silently. Amazing design never goes out of style.

silverdote

@mrnako: Well, when retards find great articles lame, Giz knows it's doing something right. Why don't you plug back into Halo 3 and stop pretending you're interested in "reading" "words" about "ideas".

This is a terrific article. Those Rams designs are phenomenal! That watch is classic, and I really want one.

Pope John Peeps II

"Good artists copy, great artists steal"

showdoc

Man, that camera with THAT microphone is SO PORN!

Palestina

Gizmodo has once again proven that there is nothing new under the sun. Great article!

zenpoet

Superb Article!

aphex

So basically this article is saying that Apple really doesn't have any original ideas of their own despite what everyone thinks and just copies stuff from the 1960's that their target audience wouldn't recognize and pass it off as their own unique creation?

When Apple does it, it's a "great evolution to classic concepts." But when a company makes a cell phone that is rectangular and has buttons it's a rip-off. Once again iSheep have consumed the iKool-Aid.

snoogans

...so there is no such thing as an Apple rip-off? Just Braun rip-offs? Apple has been ripping of Braun... I feel like a college kid who just figured out that "Mrs. Robinson" by the Lemonheads was a remake. Oh well, que sera, sera.

dj_cobb

Really, really nice head-piece, Jesus. Really well-done. Most people don't realize that under the covers of our consumer culture there is a history of design and engineering that we all (hopefully) benefit from. Good companies leverage that history- and bad ones produce the Zune...

natlyon

There's some seriously beautiful stuff there. The lighters make me want to smoke again, especially while listening to music on that wall mounted reel to reel... Then I'd head out with me droogs for a bit of the old ultra-violence.

hhaller

Awesome feature! Really shows how design comes around again.

Can't wait until rotary dials come back to phones...then my nightmares will be complete. CAN'T...DIAL...NUMBER!!! Anyone else in their 30s have nightmares of not being able to dial out since they were a kid? I think the only thing that would make rotary phones worse is if the holes were razor-sharp and the handset dispensed lemon juice.

rxse7en

Nice job gizmodo!

PDSM

even the braun calculator and the one on the iphone :) that is neat.

sryidc

The MacBook Air is definitely an ultra-thin clock radio. With an iPod dock.

matt buchanan

Wow this is lame.

mrnako

So... pocket calculators and record players for Macworld?

Gizmo

Wow, scary when you see the radio next to the iPod.

Adam Rock

Have been on MoMa for about 3 times now. never notice tht similarity.

I guess because i just went on the free friday, and the museum was packed, with tourists

Jeremias

@k3of4: No, if Microsoft does it, it's also art.

The problem is, they don't.

Jesus Diaz

It's only called a "rip-off" if Microsoft does it. For Apple it's just recycled art.

k3of4

wow the calculator is the SAME as the one on the iphone.

MrBlahBlah

@Jesus Diaz: THANK YOU, you do commercial art a great justice. Jesus you are great.

oo0cyst0oo

O.W.N.E.D.

Skoove

Incidentally, the Wikipedia article on Dieter Rams finishes with, "Rams' designs have been very influential on Jonathan Ive of Apple Computers, designer of such products as the iMac and the iPod."

LittleJon

@packetsniffer: Yeah. Artificial design > design that doesn't come from a natural need in the product. LIke adding a handle where no handle is needed just for the sake of it, because the designer thinks it looks better.

Jesus Diaz

Nice post, Jesus. Thanks for the overview. I was already familiar with Ram's work and it's influence on Ives but seeing the examples next to each other was definitely illuminating.
@DJ_Cob and Snoogans: Nope that's not it at all. That's like saying that Braun ripped off the watch face because it's round and has numbers and hands to point out the time or that every example of the numeric keypad we use today on phones , computers, and calculators are rip-offs of Rams keypad design for the Braun calculator. Both are technically true but meaningless.
A big part of design process is knowing what to leave in and what to leave out and what works and what doesn't work are is unlikely to work. Knowing what has worked in the past is a huge piece of the puzzle and suggesting that a design is stolen simply because it acknowledges prior work instead of emerging from some vaporous part of the artists imagination that is completely untouched by memory is moronic.
The iPod scroll wheel is a perfect example of something that was invented for one technology then retrofitted to fit another. It actually made more sense on the iPod 30 years later than it did on the radio.
That's not stealing. It's not even homage. It's just good design at work.
That Ives understands so well how that process works is a big reason why Apple is Apple and everyone else is trying to catch up.

The kool-aid works whether you drink it or not.

djfred

"...The similarities between products from Braun and Apple are sometimes uncanny, others more subtle, but there's always a common root which provides the new Apple objects not only with a beautiful simplicity but also with a close familiarity..."
Jesus, seriously, you sound near-orgasmic during this entire article.

"with no artificial design"
And what the heck are does that mean?

packetsniffer

Apple's design really isn't that innovative, however what it is is very un-American (I mean that in the sense of being not typical of an American company, rather than unpatriot!). Their look is very much grounded in European minimalism that dates back to Bauhaus in the 1920s.

While the US has had its (important) proponents of minimalism, the movement didn't have the same wide-spread impact that it did in Europe. As a result, Apple's design seems a lot more revolutionary to most Americans than it does to Europeans.

I'm not trying to take away from Apple's design work - I'm a fan of Jonathan Ive's work, but it has to be understood in the the context of all the great design that came before it.

p.s. What are all the "Lame" comments supposed to mean? That the central thesis of this article is false, or that Apple's design is lame? Or what? It's not for me to tell people how to post, but please write so that other people (who are not living in your head) can understand what your point is!

LittleJon

Had this been any other company the article would have been very different. Replace "Apple" with "Microsoft" for example and you wouldn't call it "a great evolution to classic concepts" but rather "yet more proof that Microsoft is incapable of innovation".

BoinK

Amazing design never goes out of style.

These are exceptional examples of good design, both in their genesis and modern use.

92BuickLeSabre

I was shaving with my iPod just this morning.

geschmidtt

Wow! I totally had that squirrel-cage fan when I was younger (in the 80s). Really powerful for its size and whisper quiet. I had no idea it was a celebrated design.

adholmes

LAME.

tmncon

thats kinda creepy.

Lavallee017

nice comparison!

chopstickhero

This is a great article, I wouldn't call it "rip-off's" they are inspirations. Both designers have created great products. If only todays Rock music would have more classic rock inspiration there would be more new music that was worth a sh!t.

RemyRed

I know I've seen that calculator before: iPhone...

For those who claim 'rip-off', know this: Shakespeare did not write original pieces, his work was mostly borrowed from other sources. Inspiration is not the same as 'rip-off'.

TC2COOL

Thank you, Jesus. Now I can say, "but, honey, it's ART!" when the FedEx guy shows up with my MacBook Air. ;)

bobdobbs

@Jesus Diaz: Agreed.

hanswurst0815

Reel-to-reels ROCK!!!!! Wish there was some kind of modern equivalent...

Nothing said ''I'm smokin' hip'' like reel machines spinning back in the pad...

Just check ''Pulp Fiction''

W

Turbo Driver

Huh. That's actually interesting. I'm not sure we're going to see lighters tomorrow, but who knows?
Can't have fire without air...

Okay. I'm sorry. I'll go stand in the corner for that.

It was funny though.

munan

From Bauhaus, trace back to classical greek proportions and the golden section.

You can learn a lot from less is more.

RocketScientist

@LittleJon: Everyone lives in my head.

jellobrains

One of my favorite quotes (that i would have never known if not for Civilization 4)

"In anything at all, perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
Saint Exupery (apparently)

This seems to be very true for the designs that are so popular from Apple - not jamming latest doohicky-mobob just for the heck of it!

ChiefoftheChiss

Picasso once said that originality lay in having the most obscure sources for your ideas...

(and yes I know Rams is not obscure within design circles)

Mike from Boston

@ Jesus Diaz - Great post. Totally inspiring.

ImTheKing

Its just about clean lines people. The design truths are universal. Copying is done when there is no understanding of the product. Great art is all similar because it understands the design principles.

pancreas

@Jesus Diaz: OK, I've gotta give you that ;)

k3of4

[www.vitsoe.com]

I have a few of his shelf systems integrated into my living room and office layout.

And, yes, I'm an unapologetic Mac user and enthusiast.

littleSavage

Great article Jesus! LOL, I felt kinda religious back there for a moment. :P

Gonna store this on my favorites to shove it in Apple fanboys faces whenever they brag about Apple designs being SO ORIGINALLLLLL

I mean, it really is beaufiful. But even Jobs admited copying stuff once. And the worst type of fanboy is the ones who doesn't even know what they are talking about...

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

To be fair, the T3 pocket radio was "modeled" after a similar-looking Stone Age innovation -- the rock.

'Suss--

I wouldn't be suprised if Steve Jobs had asked Ive to copy designs.

You have to admit, Steve was probably impressed at the time during his youth by designers from Braun, the designer of the egg chair, and not to mention all those James Bond movies.

I always imagined him as a martini guzzling, smoke jacket wearing, and schmoozing guy wanting to collect all the Nordic peoples' designers and put them in protective mylar while he tries to bid on Ebay for any house featured in a James Bond movie.

Jobs. Lounge Lizzard for life.

Kendra

@Jesus Diaz:
Ah, gotcha.

P.S. I like how you didn't defend yourself against my accusation, hehe.

packetsniffer

Big deal. You see rectangles and circles, you see white and aluminum. So they are similar? C'mon, gimme a break.

Design is about solving problems. Take apart an Apple product and study how Ive solves the user-problems, production-problems, and aesthetics-problems ( details ). It's friggn' insane. You can't get that kind of artistry without full understanding of the product and trying hundreds upon hundreds of good ideas and prototypes that's just not-quite-perfect.

liin

While Jonathan Ive may have blatently copied the LOOK of some of Dieter Rams designs, he HARDLY applied Rams philosophies. All Apple products are based on the concept of function following form. There is no greater example of this than the puck mouse. Remember that? The iMac it came with was equally dysfunctional in having a 13-inch screen in an era of 17-inchers, and no method for expandability other than a few serial ports.

As a matter of fact, it wasn't until the most recent of Macs that Apple supplies a mouse that finally catches up with designs dating back to the 20th century. Please.

The G5 may be a nice-looking machine, but don't accidentally smack body parts into it. I've had a fractured knuckle from trying to plug a USB cable into the front port by accidentally hitting the sharp, hard edge. No fun.

So no, while he may have copied the LOOK of Rams designs, he did not implement COMMON SENSE into the designs. In the world of Apple, looks are everything, functionally MAY be an option.

vidrazor

I find it disconcerting that Ives' original iMac design was garishly colored -- and frankly a bit tacky -- and his Braun-inspired work is so clearly different. It just seems so clear that Ives has become a celebrated designer as a direct result of the influence of the work he's decided to "appropriate."

Granted, Ives' contemporary re-imaginings of Rams' designs are beautiful and thoroughly modern. I much prefer Apple's designs to those of any other computer/CE manufacturer. I just wonder what Dieter Rams thinks of it.

mrface

Great article Jesus!

WE_DELIVER

Wow, those folks really did some excellent original designs!

strider_mt2k

Damn, just a little too late for the Sprokets reference. The influence is strikingly obvious; has Ive ever made mention of Ram's work as an inspiration?

miken32

Deiter, would you like to pet my monkey and experience an ecstasy unparalleled only by walking naked through the downtrodden locales of South Berlin? enough! This is the time on Sprokets where we dance!

Seriously, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Dimplemonkey

nice article, not in terms of Apple's Secret, but it's cool to revisit such beautiful designs 5 decades ago/

kittenman

Great article. I hadn't seen the T1000 radio before. I do have the fan, two watches, a clock and calculator, all Rams' design.

Maladjusted

I do like Deiter's design, they still look nice today. I owned both an iMac G4, and iMac G5. Frankly, after looking at the iMac G4 for about 3 months, I thought the iMac G4 was still different, but was basically ugly. I thought that until I discarded it when the performance was unacceptable. I never really liked the style of the iMac G5, I bought it for the G5 processor, and 20" screen. A big chin may look good on some famous people, but I do not want a big chin on my computer.

Some people probably like the style of the G4, and G5 iMac's. I repect their opinions, I just have a different opinion about the designs after using both.

jimtravis

wtf. i love mac, always have, but the rip offs here are astonishing... isnt that copyright infringment?

swampape

@Shoe: The calculator similarities were pointed out a long time ago. The original article on the UI is linked in the lead of this article.

I haven't included UI in the article because Ive is not responsible of that dept. (although it's logical to think the whole company is influenced by the works of Rams' as a product of the hardware design.)

Jesus Diaz

oh crap- its right above me. what a silly man I am.

Shoe

By the way- look at the Braun Calculator at the end of the photos. Those buttons are almost DUPLICATE of the calulator interface on the new iPhone. I really believe that all this similarity is no coincidence, and that Rams may indeed be a huge influence on Ive. (If someone else already posted this then my apologies- I came late to the game and didn't have hours to read all the cool discussion.)

Shoe

Dieter Rams is one of the best designers EVER - and of COURSE Jonathan Ive will use him for inspiration! Open the calculator on an iPod touch and hey presto, you have a Dieter Rams Braun calculator! NOT Rip-offs at all - simply paying homage to one of the greats. I still have an original one of those calculators sitting on my desk in front of me!

ecobore

I wish my tv-b-gone would turn this article off.

stinko

They are similar because design is an artform - and artforms get perfected over time - so I think you are right on the money. That's why the many patents that get filed on interface designs are absurd.

LynnFredricks

Just look at the calculator on iPhone and iPod touch....
A full copy of Rahms most famous calculator for Braun!

awheintz

It's important to appreciate that good design isn't just cooked up in the mind. It's inspired from other great designers too. Good design even from decades past shouldn't be abandonned for it's age, it should be given new purpose in ours. I think that's what Ive does.

scandalmonger

Hi! I'm Diogo, from the Mac & Etc blog at O Globo Online. Just wanna thanks Gizmodo guys for crediting my post on this article. I love this site and it's really really cool "being here", specially cause my site isn't even in english (but i think images do the work here).

My post was collection from a few other blogs posts. And searching for two or three of these references on google images i ended up finding the others. I just took these articles and put them all together. And still... you also found out a new one!

diogowerner

I'm surprised no one mentioned that the picture "braun79" looks just like the Dash GPS.

TheCapt

Wow, my first read over here after 4+ years of Engadget, great article.

I'm somewhat surprised that it's Braun, the products pictured have more of a B&O look to them. I guess my only experience with Braun is standard looking coffee makers.

homant

Acually Dieter is a follower of the early 20th century Bauhaus School of Design - which created a modern 'less is more' and 'form follows function' in graphics (Helvetica type), products (Braun), and architecture (the glass and steel skyscrapers).

So Apple is not ripping of Dieter, they both were and are following the same design philosophy.

Paducah

Wow... Un-thought-out comment of the day award should DEFINITELY go SWAMPAPE. Way to comment on the article without even reading it.. or understanding copyright law, on even a fundamental level.

lpranal

1. Garageband = [gizmodo.com]
damn

Macbook Air? or perhaps [gizmodo.com]

WalkerP

A schoolmate had the white Braun stereo, so great.

Dieter Rams predates Bang & Olufsen, and he's Bauhaus not Danish modern.

The Braun wristwatch is PERFECT. I think Dietrich Lubs working under Dieter Rams designed it. There are many variants, none better than the AW20 with black strap... unhhhhharggh oooooooooo And compared to Bauhaus wannabes from Georg Jensen and Xemex, it's cheap (~$85 before the dollar tanked). In the '80s it was in all the museum stores, then Gillette (who own Braun, sacrilege!) gave it away with shavers, now it's unobtainable in the USA. I ordered several of them, plus the platinum AW50 and spare straps from timedesign.de.

"less, but better"

skierpage

@Paducah:

Thanks for pointing this out, I was going to as well. Apple is just following a revised "modernist" theory that was perpetuated by the De Stijl movement and Bauhaus design philosophy. Instead of steel, glass and concrete, it's plastic and aluminum. Oud's "Voids, Spans, and Spaces" philosophy is close to what Apple likes. I don't think Apple is ripping off anything, they are just following a design philosophy that's been here since the 1900s.

Sweet article.

SubKamran

I think these rules are not only good for product design but for communication design too. Everyone in the business should re-check their advertsing if it meets these rules, even the part "unobtrusive"!

KMTO

More like Apple derived the design for the G5 and Power Mac case from Lian Li.

skallah

I want those square lighters, and maybe that TV.

Jonn

Props Jesus, very interesting.

Can you do a balance article on another computer/phone/software/music player company and dig up their design influences ... oh wait.

I suppose you could do Sony but then I don't think their influences are as clear cut as Apple's.

Maxwells_Nylon_Hammer

not all these designs are dieter rams, reinhold weiss gets confused for him all the time.

ewhewell

Jonathan Ive is a sponge! Figures that this was all too good to be real...

djuoh

Well thank god he's (strike) copying (strike) being influenced by a decent designer. But this observation isn't new; I mentioned it in a post on our blog ([www.rmmlondon.com]) and I'd taken that from an article in the FT ([www.ft.com]).

leoryan

there is nothing creative in cutting someones else work and pasting it into a new piece...
and even iPod navigation is ripped - shit and ive loved it

its like:
-Jonathan we need design for our new "iGPS"
-ok ill check what else i can use

well there is more:
[youthoughtwewouldntnotice.com]

gardlo

I also dig the philosophy of Jacob Jensen. Check this quote about perfecting designs:

[blog.convos.com]

trush

I had the incredible fortune to grow up in a house, where Braun-design was sacred. My parents owned the reel-to-reel, record player (without radio or cassette-deck), alarm clocks and calculator.

These things had a strange pull to them that our other electronics could never match. The materials and the feel of them are just incredible. It's hard to understand, if you've not held them in your hand. It's very much a tactile experience.

I swear, my parents still own all these things, some thirty years on; they seem unbreakable. Lack of obsolence is perhaps bad for business (to quote Asterix:Obelix & Co.), but incredible for consumer loyalty. To this day, my father will still pick the Braun-model over any competitor.

BTW the record players buttons function by way of a circuit, that connects when you touch them, and thus it registers which button you've pressed. Check out the close-up in the gallery. It is one sexy stereo component, even in the drab greenish-greyish colour Braun favoured.

Sorry if this post is a bit on the mushy side. I am still in love with these designs, for they are truly classic. Thanks to Jesus for taking the time to re-acqauint me with things long forgotten.

QueerPunk

Jesus: Awesome post. I want to have your baby.

antonalfon

:oD
Maybe we could name the next generation: Mac Shave Pro…
If we look at all articles like this one, It's clear that nobody has invented anything really new. Multi touch is an old project, Windows was "influenced" by MacOs who was "influenced", an so on. New stuffs works fine in a era, but not in others.
Anyway Man has never "created" something, but always improved by things around him. So Ive's not more a sponge than anyone else. It's just good to know that and sometimes surprising to see what it gives at last.

seboulba

I found many of the above comments fascinating as so many in the US still think of Braun as the company that makes coffee machines, hairdryers and electric tooth brushes and very little else. As many will know, it's very different in Europe where Braun produces a seemingly endless range of Bauhaus inspired objects covering virtually every branch of consumer electronic needs. A good example of this occurred in the early eighties when Dieter Rams attempted to export the Atelier sound system components to the US. In spite of the fact that Braun had a long and respected history in Western Europe for middle to high end stereo equipment, America still thought they were best at producing coffee machines and likely ill equipped to produce much else, let alone high end stereo equipment. Consequently the Braun Atelier system was marketed under the ADS or A/D/S labels and to this day many are surprised (and even slightly disappointed) to learn it was actually designed and manufactured by D. Rams and his designers at Braun A.G.

I think it's very encouraging to see a large receptive audience for the terrific designs Apple has been producing lately and although they are in fact not quite as original as most might think, they are at least (for the most part) clean, elegant and functional designs that often reflect the old Ulm school principals.

We have (hopefully) survived Memphis, Alchimia and Post Modernism. I'm pleased to see so many so pleased with good old fashioned design again.

Now if Apple would just get rid of that gaudy chrome on their current iPods, iPhone's etc I might remain a steady customer.

RNJH

I guess, it wont be surprising if someone point out the similarity between the Samsung's NV series camera to some 6's Leica camera. - Haobam

haobam