@kumuasata: Exactly

@sackofjawea: hahaha. Almost true

ImTheKing

@Kamuasata

Anything > Windows

sackofjawea

Silly Microsoft.

If they want people to switch to Vista, they should be trying to break XP, not improve it!

el_gordo

Ubuntu > Windows.

kumuasata

yay, lets hack it - www.hacknmod.com/display.php?subcat=Windows

gizmodome

better six years late than never

homerjay

In b4 Vista vs XP argument.

KiKadet

actually 130 is more expensive than a vista upgrade if you know where to look (like at newegg). 130 for a service pack vs 110 for a completely new operating system that won't need replacing for like 5 years?

burningsensation

I don't see what anyone has against Vista.

I personally like it. The memory management improvements are no minor aspect, it's more stable with good hardware, and while the user alerts are irritating they're also better than constantly sudoing or running in root mode all the time. A lot of the UI movements can make it a lot easier to do complex file transfers or other things. It's no Linux, and it requires better hardware than XP, but that really shouldn't surprise people. The hardware requirements aren't bad compared to the most recent Mac OS X or complete and similarly flashy Linux distributions, either.

That said, I understand why a lot of users hate it. It's significantly different, and if you've spent more than ten years with 95style systems, it's different enough to slow you down. I've had users switch operating systems before they figured out that they can use the new folder navigation in Internet Explorer. It's not hard, it's just different enough to irritate them.

The hardware requirements aren't minor, either. Every single new PC out in the last couple of years will run it fine, but folk do like keepin older machines running, and three year old ones won't do it.

gattsuru

@crazysamz:
Considering that for most people who've ever bought a Mac, this will be their first upgrade, it's $130, cheaper than any Vista upgrade, and FUNCTIONAL, well.. I think it speaks for itself.

But you called the Zune an "older product". It's only been a freakin' year. That's not old. And what version of Windows are you talking about? 98? XP is still used by shiltload of people. If Microsoft had a secret button to make them all move to Vista, I think they would have pushed it by now. XP is still around because XP has "gained" usefulness compared to Vista.

dagamer34

@kumuasata:

Troll.

dead_red_eyes

sorry guys, i love os x, and linux, and bsd, but xp is a good os. comparatively, it is still better than linux/bsd for the desktop. as it stands, os x is way better, but that doesn't mean winsdows can't catch up, but it's likely apple will have moved on by that point too.

i estimate by the next major wondows release (maybe 2011) they will again have a great contender like xp was, but oss will have almost caught up with apple.

EMoShunz

@dagamer34: Needs attention. T.R.O.L.L.

Cleverboy

@DAGAMER34
If I was a fanboy, I WOULD BE TYPYING LIKE THIS, or, I would be saying stuff like APPLE IS SHIT, THEY ARE THE WORST COMPANY EVER MICROSOFT IS THE SHIT. Did I say anything like that? I'm just saying it is more practical to be buying windows and keeping it while they still support it, even though they have released the newer version. Oh, and if you don't consider what Apple calls an "Upgrade" as something similar to an overpriced service pack, then you my friend, are an idiot. Seriously, there are maybe 10-15 upgrades in leopard that are worth getting on a new Mac, but not worth the price of $130.

crazysamz

@crazysamz:
So... fanboyish? Wow. Service packs? Seriously?

dagamer34

@EL_GORDO
Microsoft is not a company like that, they actually support their older products, like the zune, or windows, unlike companies like Apple, they totally forget about their older versions of anything, which makes you almost have to upgrade, but with microsoft, it's different. You can keep their older products and still be happy. Unlike Mac OS, where you have to pay $130 for what can basically be considered a service pack.

crazysamz

10% Boost. Woohoo??

I don't see what anyone has against Vista. Except for being confusing at first. I had to get a new computer so I didn't have to upgrade or anything. Came with Vista. Works nice. Way better than my old computer. But I would probably go back to XP SP3 if I used Windowblinds.

aaj111

@el_gordo: Not really... they supported Win 2k forever (stopped licensing this year or the previous) to keep businesses happy, the same will happen with XP most likely. It's the home user they'll try to push onto Vista.

rususeruru

Windows 7 is gonna rock my socks. Or not...Mac OS X Tiger forever!!!!!

slingblade

MinGW requires references to be specifically set and the calling command window to have administrator settings (and possibly that the current user have full control ownership of the target files and directories). It's a pain in the backside.

I haven't seen Vista refuse to close a running program, although I'll admit my experience is far from complete.

gattsuru

@Bokusatsu_Tenshi:
I've got vista running on all 4 machines in my home, and I don't know how these types of things are happening, because all of my machines run vista great, better than XP in some cases. Also, IDK what your talking about, my Vista laptop runs great, I'm using it to type what you're reading right now. Dells suck, you should have gone with an HP, they're much better in quality. Although, support is still not the best, simply because you have to talk to a guy that can barely speak english. The quality of their pc's are good though.

crazysamz

@ImTheKing:
well, not everyone can get the educational discount, because not everyone is in school anymore, unlike with the vista deals on newegg, which apply to everyone, not just students. So an educational discount doesn't exactly count as the retail price you can get it for.

crazysamz

@dagamer34:
Well, the 30GB Zune is an older product, by one year. And see, you think the Zune isn't an older product, but companies like Apple like to think of their 1 year old Ipods as if they're ancient and just discontinue it, along with not giving it a software upgrade with any new features, but the Zune isn't like that, they still support their "Older", or by that I mean previous, products, like with the software upgrade they gave to all of the owners of it for free. I was trying to say that XP is still used because it's still supported and gets new features, unlike Mac OS X.4, because apple is like one of those people that throws away everything old, even if it's completely functional. They're not adding any new features or performance tweaks to OSX.4 for a reason: They want you to go out and buy the new version for $130, even though it's not worth the money for most people.

crazysamz

I just replaced Vista for XP on my laptop.
Had to read a 32 page topic, another 17 page topic, a full tutorial and get drivers from different places while testing to see if they worked out.
All that because my laptop lacks some "official" XP drivers. It's a Dell XPS M1330. Dell sucks, and so does their support.

And this is how much I hated Vista. I heard of success stories, but for me personally, it was a living hell.
I had to restart the machine 10+ times a day because most softwares I use crashed, and task manager would never close them properly.

My C++ compiler wouldn't work out (MinGW), games would crash randomly, network would loose connection from time to time, browsers would just stop working out of nowhere. Bluetooth and integrated camera would't work no matter what I did, TV-out suddenly stopped working, my USB2.0 hub also wouldn't be recognized.

And this is just part of the whole problem that I had.

I thought that the interface was a pretty but not major improvement, UAC sucked ass, performance had a major downgrade. My Turion 64 laptop would be almost as fast as C2D 2.4Mhz running Vista.

I noticed most people who likes Vista are running them on Desktops. So my advice is: Don't buy laptops with Vista preloaded. And be prepared for a major downgrade on processor speed if you do, specially on 3D games.

As for me, SP3... and I'll never touch Vista again in my life. I read the tests on SP1 for Vista... minor improvements. Doesn't get close to performing as good as SP2 for XP.

Of course, this only affects people who use resource intensive apps and doesn't have high end specs.
But my laptop is not that shabby too... 2Gb RAM, nVidia 8400Go, 2.4C2D... and I could only play several games... such as Team Fortress 2 with lowest settings and DirectX8, which is just painful.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

Is this at no charge? Also, if I don't have SP2, can I still get this?

What are the differences?

Windows Services Packs have historically been free-of-charge other than the cost of your internet connection or the cost of shipping a disc to you. You may or may not need SP2 -- usually it won't update without the previous one -- but SP2 is available online or at low cost of shipping.

It's set for release in "the first half of 2008".

Most of the stated differences are minor or invisible. SP3 is supposed to have better per-user application installation abilities and non-broadcast SSID wireless controls, but those are pretty minor. The rest of the pack is reliability, security, and performance boost stuff.

gattsuru

Considering that for most people who've ever bought a Mac, this will be their first upgrade, it's $130, cheaper than any Vista upgrade, and FUNCTIONAL, well.. I think it speaks for itself.

An entirely new complete license for Vista Home Basic is only 130 USD if you look at the right shops. Upgrade licenses and OEM licenses for Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, and rarely Vista Business can be found from 60 USD to 140 USD.

They'll also remain up to date for more than two years, with future content and updates provided for free until the next system release.

For the record, Leopard's being considered the worst upgrade since Vista in a good few circles, including many mac-head ones.

There are a lot of reasons to go Mac, but getting bang or your buck really, really isn't one of them.

gattsuru

Is this at no charge? Also, if I don't have SP2, can I still get this?

What are the differences?

SAIFDS

@burningsensation: Just to let you know, $70 for OSX via educational discount. AND NO SERIALS! they arent trying to catch piraters like microsoft.

As for your years statement, thats because it took them 5 years to make anything even capable of working correctly.

ImTheKing

Please, let's not open a "Vista upgrade price Vs. Leopard upgrade price" discussion. I'm very interested in an XP service pack update that increases performance. Until we get Macs at the office, any improvement will do. XP generally gets slow over time, its fairly obnoxious. If a service pack reclaims some fresh-install performance, that's be awesome.

Cleverboy

@EMoShunz: "sorry guys, i love os x, and linux, and bsd, but xp is a good os. comparatively, it is still better than linux/bsd for the desktop. as it stands, os x is way better, but that doesn't mean winsdows can't catch up"

Agreed, if you're considering OS/X as a standalone entity, it's superior. Where Windows (of whatever flavour) is still superior, is in terms of manageability/tools, in the context of a very large enterprise. That's why so many large companies keep buying Windows -- it's not because of inertia, because they are too stupid to know better (being lumbering dinosaurs), or just follow the path of least resistance. Many of these corporations WANT to get off the Microsoft teat, but just can't get the numbers to make it a worthwhile endeavour, whether the desired alternative is Linux or OS/X.

Mandatory_Field

Dammit! I hate my Vista Machine! I wish my old XP laptop was still working.

icntdrv

I'm running all XP machines over here at the moment so I eagerly await this.

strider_mt2k

You know, Word and Excel ran really well on my old PCXT compatible with DOS 3.0.

NeoPoliticus

Hey, I just realized I have never known what XP stands for. ME 98 95 Vista all pretty easy, but what about XP?

nightsky

Ah, fun. The main reason I've stuck with Vista is the tablet PC functionality, and that handy little on-screen keyboard/doodly handwriting recognition place.

Reilao

@ TW33KR

Be forewarned that the currently available SP3 is a BETA. While it's unlikely to nuke your system as completely as the Vista or XP betas did, it's also likely to have significant bugs, and those bugs are not going to get technical support from anyone.

Use it at your own risk until it's officially released, or at least publically beta'd, if you can't accept potentially losing data or having to rebuild your operating system.

Highly, highly unlikely, but be forewarned.

gattsuru

@crazysamz: you dont have to be in school. Apple doesn't check the orders.

ImTheKing

@ Nightsky
XP stands for "Experience"

And when does this come out. I am stuck with windows. So this sucks.

Altanader

there is a registry hack that lets you download sp3 from windows update.

I installed it and it seems to work well. ^.^

Tw33kR

@ GATTSURU

I have multiple images of my system set up and I test software and other things enough to where I use them lol. Of course I understand all of the implications of using "Alpha" software. You spelled it out but didn't give it it's proper name. Earlier today I was trying to install Leopard to another drive with a Patched DVD.

Tw33kR

@strider_mt2k: i doubt it works. but worth a try i guess.

foureight84

Speaking of a performance boost for XP, has anyone heard of or tried a utility that claims to give XP a Readyboost-like performance kick from a flash drive called "eboostr"?
[www.eboostr.com]

I'm getting ready to try it on an older machine just for fun to see if it does anything to help at all.

strider_mt2k

I'm unmoved by this discussion until they clarify whether they're talking about a performance increase over a clean install of XP SP2 or just an old system that got updated.

HonusWScruggs

I've used Windows since version 1.0 on a box full of floppies. Every new version takes more hardware to run, it's always slower, never faster. You're also (as had been mentioned) going to run into drivers that aren't out yet, and your old programs which weren't written for Vista are going to have some problems. All this for a new interface you're going to be totally unfamiliar with.

Why? The reason is people are impulsive and if it's software, and it's new, they always take the bait thinking it has to be better.

Problem is, it can be a lot worse too. Big corporations know this, it's why they don't early adopt. They wait a year or two for the service packs, bug fixes, and generally for everyone else to go through hell before they switch.

Of course to be fair there's a lot of people who can't build a system, so they buy it and of course it's going to be preloaded with only Vista as a choice. I've just seen it happen so many times it's amazing, but they are a monopoly after all...

I like Apple a lot, and I hope this does make them more attractive to software developers so they can compete better. Linux by itself is more efficient, but too hard for the average person to use, that's been holding it back for years now.

Hello_Newman

@Bokusatsu_Tenshi:

You shouldn't blame the operating system because you have shitty hardware. I have a 4 machines with Vista and 5 with XP... I have no problems with any of them. The problems you keep stating your having (USB stops working, browser stops working, random crap, etc) Sounds like you have bad ram, or some other type of hardware issue. You keep blaming the operating system for your shitty hardware problems. If Apple used shitty hardware, they're OS would crash more too (not that theirs doesnt crash).

Vista uses a memory allocation technique called address space layout randomization. It means that a machine that ran XP without a problem but has a faulty RAM module somewhere may very well choke under Vista. This should be a sign that it's time to replace the offending RAM, since it may very well have contributed to silent memory-corruption issues in XP (i.e., the odd random crash or application fault) without you ever knowing about it. (This last paragraph was quoted from [searchwincomputing.techtarget.com],289483,sid68_gci1241306,00.html because I tried writing it in my own words and it sounded horrible).

On one of the machines I installed Vista on I noticed it was crashing constantly, I did a memory test and found I had some bad ram, replaced it and it was fine. Bad ram can cause some major computer problems (random stuff stops working), kinda like a bad ground in car. You'll get random flashing lights even with the car off.

teamlouish

Giz, this article is BS. If you would have done some more digging - like Engadget didn't do either - you would have found out that this bunch of hacks at "Devil Mountain Software" (whoever the heck that is) ran their benchmark one time on one PC. They're also the same hooligans who are claiming that Vista SP1 will offer no speed increases.

hughjass

People have mercilessly short memories. Every time M$ debuts anything some story pops up somewhere claiming performance boosts.
If you hate Macs you are racist.
If you hate Microsoft you are a commie.
So if you are a Linux-er then you are a racist commie.
OS/2!

calaverasgrandes

This is great news.

By the way... @calaverasgrandes, there seems to be a big hole in your logic... (where OS/2 fans end up hating everybody and themselves). Plus, nowadays, if you hate Microsoft, you are homophobic (but if you just hate Steve Ballmer you might just be amaxovenditiocompleophobic -the fear to car salesmen-).

Will Vista become the next ME? I think so.

whiskey

If me puter could handle it Vista would be on it.Period.................

mikegriffin

Someone Wrote:

"Microsoft is not a company like that, they actually support their older products, like the zune, or windows, unlike companies like Apple, they totally forget about their older versions of anything, which makes you almost have to upgrade, but with microsoft, it's different. You can keep their older products and still be happy. Unlike Mac OS, where you have to pay $130 for what can basically be considered a service pack."

THIS IS NOT TRUE... Otherwise, they would have come out with Halo 3 for the original Xbox.

SBM_from_LA

XP ftw heh. I like XP a great deal more than Vista despite the high gloss spit polish it has, so anything that makes it even better is fine in my book.

Kaiser-Machead

Someone install service pack 3 and let me know if it bricks you PC, OK?

pupaboy2

All of you who said that Vista made your computer explode encountered one of the following issues:

1) Your computer sucks 'em real hard, and its time you got a new one.

2) You are a moron and don't know how to manage and maintain your computer.

Also, OS 10.5/.1 has so many bugs that its unusable (personally). In fact, I only use vista ultimate now since some of the bugs in 10.5/.1 are so annoying that its just easier not to use it.

Half of y'all sound as if y'all are going to be using XP next 15 years. Its funny because by then y'all have become your grandparents and have to get some 8 year old kid to show you how to install your printer on Windows 2015.

kingbob337

Copy and Paste - making the world seem like a smarter place.

There are many words out that can be used, but it doesnt mean they should be. Like "ain't"

goatiiee

To quote the oxford dictionary:

y'all |yôl|
contraction of
you-all.

They must be hicks in oxford too.

Here's a note on proper usage:

This sturdy Southernism is most logically y'all, not ya'll. Only the you of you all is contracted. And in modern print sources, y'all is ten times as common. So ya'll (which misleadingly resembles he'll, she'll, and we'll) deserves an edit-e.g.: " 'Ya'll [read Y'all ] have got to help me a lot,' Bentley, a registered nurse at Chalmette Medical Centers, told the students about class planning." ( Times-Picayune [New Orleans]; Feb. 25, 1997.) In the late twentieth century, some writers began spelling the term without an apostrophe: yall. This spelling is not yet widespread (and not recommended). Why has the spelling been so much trouble? Y'all is the only contraction in English in which a stressed form is contracted to an unstressed one.

kingbob337

As if constantly hearing how XP is better than Vista (or vise versa depending on user) or how either is bad or worse than a MAC (again depending on user) is bad enough... now I have to read comments by people that type like hicks. "Y'all" know what I mean?

One magical day Im sure Vista will operate just like XP, but until 2012, Im sure many will love and hate either one.

As far as Windows vs MAC vs Whatever, it doesnt matter. Everyone will have their preferences. We dont need to constantly clog up these comment sections about whos crap smells worse.

"I use charmin to wipe my ass!"
"Charmin sucks, it rips in my hands all the time, Scotts is the way to go!"
"Scotts sucks. I get rashes from it, I use leaves!"
"Boo leaves - use sleeves!"

One way or another we can take care of our shit.

goatiiee

LINUX sucks!

bugstomper2

People who think Linux|Windows|OSX sucks suck!

I take any of them over IBM OS 370 that I first learned computing on!

Skeptical_Geezer

I really need to buy a computer. After reading everyones comments I dont know If i should buy a Mac or not. I really wanted to try them. I have heard a lot of good things, and I really am sick of all the problems I am having with my PC now. Any unbiased recommendations out there?

desertprincess214

Before it starts, I'm just gonna say: OS wars are pointless. People are not going to change their mind because of your posts or even accept your opinion. We all chose our OS for a reason-it works best for us. Obviously everyone's not the same person, and while a super do-all OS would be good, there's no way we're gonna see an Applinuxsoft anytime soon. Until then enjoy the choice, pick what's best for you and keep it to yourself, or to the people that actually care.

FishCrossing