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The State of HD DVD
Posted by Wilson Rothman at 5:00 AM on December 7, 2007
Where Blu-ray is a freight train of unrivaled weight and marketing might, backed by 13 of the world's most well known electronics and computer makers, HD DVD is a Little Engine That Could, the product of a much smaller group of collaborators that has gotten over each obstacle by simply thinking it can. Judging from early buzz, HD DVD should have been beaten long ago. Today, though, it appears healthy and gaining in momentum thanks to lower prices, less confusion about disc standards, less in-fighting among the format's supporters and a high likelihood of cheap Chinese models arriving soon. This piece answers the following questions: How in hell has the HD DVD camp lasted this long? And how will the format's backers stay competitive in the next year in the face of cheaper and more plentiful Blu-ray players
In my recent research into the two sides of the format war, I have tried hard to steer clear of marketing mumbo jumbo on both sides, and examine real issues. As I shared in The State of Blu-ray, there's growing disarray among Blu-ray's hardware makers and confusion about hardware versions and player capabilities. HD DVD has by contrast proven to be surprisingly elegant—at the moment best demonstrated by comparing both versions of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. There's far less confusion and potential backstabbing, but that is to be expected: There are only two household names leading the charge on the hardware side, Toshiba and Microsoft, and they are not engaged in any sort of infighting. Toshiba was one of the companies most involved with the original DVD patents, and creating HD DVD as a blue-laser extension of DVD made good business sense, though not to Sony and others who were left out of that revenue stream. Regardless of its strong roots, HD DVD is run by a smaller posse with less overall reach, so keeping things clear and tight amounts to a survival tactic.
HD DVD has three things going for it that Blu-ray doesn't:
1. Players at lower prices
There's no doubt that price is the deciding factor in an embarrassing number of consumer-electronics purchases, and HD DVD—Toshiba's players—have been priced lower than Blu-ray players from Sony, Samsung, Pioneer and others. At the beginning of November, Wal-Mart dropped the entry-level Toshiba to $99 and apparently sold around 90,000.
2. A finished spec with fully compatible players
Whereas Blu-ray bewilders me with future capability promises and current competing standards, the HD DVD spec is by contrast remarkably sound. Every player meets certain standards, and while there's no requirement for 1080p video like in Blu-ray, there is a consistent requirement of internet connectivity, dual-tuner playback and local storage, which disc makers are now using for fun—and useful—interactivity. It is also becoming typical for combo discs to be released with DVD on one side and HD DVD on the other, making them eminently more compatible. (Blu-ray can't do this.)
3. Coalition members who are not in direct competition
It's easy for the HD DVD camp to work together, since there are very few who have traditionally competed in the marketplace. Because of pricing and product positioning, Toshiba and Microsoft don't vie for the same customers at all. And as others begin to market HD DVD players of their own, they approach different customers in different ways. Of course, you could argue that competition among Blu-ray's supporters is a good thing, but it has not yet led to the holy grail of competition: discounted pricing.
Who is joining HD DVD?
Many people can name five hardware partners in the Blu-ray camp (Hint: if they start with P or S, they're in). Nobody knows who else is getting into HD DVD besides its main founders, Toshiba and Microsoft, but in fact, other HD DVD players are already starting to hit the market. Here are three key players:
• Onkyo DV-HD805 ($US900): distingushing characteristics include a Silicon Optix HQV Reon VX processor for upscaling old-school DVD content, and internal support for Dolby True HD and DTS Master HD Audio for natively outputting full-resolution sound. It's certainly a tweaker's special, and only makes sense if your speakers cost much much more.
• Samsung BD-UP5000 Duo ($US800): Since this upcoming device
famously has stated support for Blu-ray discs that Sony and Pioneer won't be able to play, it's easy to forget that it's also billed as a fully compliant HD DVD player. But the reviews say it's a winner in both arenas.
• Venturer SHD7000 player ($US200): Who? Exactly. That's what they said about Apex Digital when it came out with the super cheap DVD player. Venturer is living up to its name as the first cheap Chinese player to infiltrate American retailers but signs say it will not be the last.
What about Microsoft?
Microsoft's role in HD DVD may seem a bit mysterious. Besides selling the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on drive, Microsoft helped write the HD DVD video spec, including VC-1 compression. It also licenses the HDi runtime engine, developed with Toshiba, that enables interactivity on Toshiba players and those of other licensees. HD DVD players don't have to have HDi, but at the moment, it's obviously the software with the most momentum. And software is the key to HD DVD's current successes.
Toshiba's HD-A1 and HD-XA1 players, rolled out first in the spring of 2006, were based on a 2.4GHz Pentium PC architecture, in other words, real hogs. The second generation players were moving on a 900MHz Celeron, and the third-generation HD-A3 has a 333MHz MIPS chip. The funny thing is, menus move quicker on the much more affordable third gen, because of Microsoft's improvements on the back end.
In a tear-down evaluation, industrial analyst iSuppli determined that the components of that first $US599 Toshiba player actually cost the maker $US674 before manufacturing, accessories and packaging. Though neither Microsoft nor Toshiba would acknowledge any losses, Kevin Collins, head of HD DVD promotion for Microsoft, said, "I don't know if they are losing money or breaking even," adding, "We work together to minimize cost." Jodi Sally, VP of marketing at Toshiba America Consumer Products, echoed: "All of this speculation that we're losing money is just speculation," she said. Working with Microsoft, "we've transitioned our lines three times to lower costs. I can't comment on profitability, but we have increased cost production and efficiency."
So whether you are using a Toshiba player or an Xbox 360, you are watching HD DVDs using a hardware/operating-system combo developed in large part by Microsoft. Given the fact that Microsoft isn't always known for stable and intuitive user experiences, it is even more amusing to see Blu-ray and HD DVD side by side.
Compare One Movie on Both Formats
When I compared Warner's Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix discs, the Blu-ray edition in a PS3 and the HD DVD in an Xbox 360, the differences were startling. Never mind that the HD DVD has an entire online component that the Blu-ray can't yet implement, with features such as mobile downloads and user-organised live screenings. Never mind that you could watch the entire HD DVD with pop-up actor-commentary windows on screen—if Warner had implemented this in the Harry Potter Blu-ray, it would have been compatible with exactly one currently shipping Blu-ray player.
The surprising thing was, even when you compared the exact same experiences, the HD DVD behaved much better. Every so often an icon appears in the top left corner of the screen, indicating a behind-the-scenes featurette about that particular scene. On the HD DVD, you click it, watch what you want to, then click Enter again to return to the point you left off in the main movie. With the Blu-ray, the system had no way of returning you to the movie; it could only dump you in the featurette menu, where you were stuck watching more of those. Sure, these problems could be Warner's programmers, and not a format issue, but Warner is going for as similar an experience on both, and it clearly can't do everything on Blu-ray that it can on HD DVD. Just have a look at the back of each disc:
The difference is still less subtle when comparing the two editions of 300:
As I discussed previously, Blu-ray has specifications for picture-in-picture, but to date, only one Blu-ray player that has shipped, the Panasonic DMP-BD30, will be able to handle the discs when they start making their way to stores in early 2008. Except for some rumblings from Daewoo, nobody has promised an internet-connected Blu-ray player, while all HD DVD players can. (Samsung's hybrid BD-UP5000 Duo has Ethernet, but only for HD DVD.)
The Hollywood Factor
Studio support was once Blu-ray's ace in the hole—none of this technical crap matters when the movies you want to watch aren't available in a given format—but ever since Paramount and DreamWorks announced exclusive publishing on HD DVD, even Sony chairman Howard Stringer feels a bit shaken. (Fox, Disney, Sony and others are still Blu-ray stalwarts of course.) Some say there's dirty dealing afoot, specifically alleging that Microsoft and the HD DVD group paid $US150 million or so to Paramount and DreamWorks to go exclusive. When Michael Bay made these bribery accusations again the other day, along with the accusation that Microsoft was using HD DVD to destabilize Blu-ray in favour of downloads, Jordi Ribas, GM of the HD DVD Group at Microsoft responded:
Microsoft provided no financial incentives to Paramount or DreamWorks. Michael Bay's additional comments about our commitment to HD DVD are similarly unfounded. We have major technology investments in HD DVD...and have more than 100 staff at Microsoft dedicated to the success of HD DVD.The China Factor
People who are looking to Hollywood to determine the fate of the format war may well be looking in the wrong place. China is where HD DVD's secret to success lies, in a blue-laser format called CH-DVD.
The not-so-secret secret is that a CH-DVD player is an HD DVD player whose laser is set at a different modulation. While you could never play an HD DVD on a CH-DVD player, it is physically more or less the same product. Manufacturing can happen side by side, using the same components such as processors and optical pick-ups.
The funny thing is, HD DVD is known to be region-free—discs from one country can play in HD DVD players from another country. Many discs available on Blu-ray in the US are available on HD DVD elsewhere, making for a higher chance of piracy or at least quasi-legal trade. In our mind, CH-DVD can be an answer to that, an anti-piracy measure coming from a root technological difference. "I guess you could call it a region control," said Collins, "but the Chinese just want to have their own format." Whether this separate-but-equal policy helps the format burgeon, or whether rampant piracy itself is a sign of a healthy format, is for us all to find out.
The upshot of CH-DVD is that, if and when the time is right, China could flood the US market with cheap HD DVD players. Meanwhile, because of this deal, the likelihood of a similar Blu-ray flood gets slimmer. The Venturer is here; keep your eyes peeled at Wal-Mart, Target and other discount big boxes for the next models.
Does the China threat faze Toshiba? It's nice being the one in the spotlight, but Toshiba is well aware that it will soon share the stage with competitors. "There's always a business for a Tier 1 brand in HD DVD players the way there is with DVD players," says Sally. Increased competition will come at the higher end, with combo players from Samsung, LG and possibly Denon, and the premium Onkyo I mentioned above. All of this is good news to Toshiba. Sally adds, "Increasing household penetration of HD DVD players is good overall for the format and for the software [movie] sales."
Black Friday Stalemate
On Black Friday 2007, both the Blu-ray and HD DVD camps released numbers saying they were the overwhelming winner. HD DVD announced it had reached 750,000 in total home penetration (including the Xbox 360 drive). Blu-ray said that it had 2.4 million homes, presumably including PS3. Microsoft argues that all Xbox 360 HD DVD drive purchasers are using them to play HD DVD movies, while not all PS3 buyers are using the game system to play Blu-ray discs. While this is obviously true, there is only unreliable guess work to determine exactly how successful the PS3's Blu-ray drive actually is.
The point is, the format war is far from over, and it's wrong to write off HD DVD now just because it has fewer major japanese manufacturing giants 100% behind it. There's still some time before this whole thing shakes out, but because of the organisation and proper planning of the HD DVD camp, Blu-ray no longer looks anything like the predestined victor that it once seemed.
Comments (AU Comments · US Comments)
David D.
Posted December 7, 2007 3:57 PM
Great job. This was exactly the sort of investigation needed (by no means the end though) that I mentioned in my survey feedback. Keep up the good work.
RaYdeX
Posted December 8, 2007 2:41 PM
I'm with David.
That's a fair and honest article, that no doubt has pissed of many Bluray backers.
Top work :)
SirDanF
Posted 4:33 PM 6/12/07
Personally, I'd go with HD. The idea that if I buy a Blu-Ray disc in the future and it might not actually play on the hardware I already own? Disgusting. I'd rather not be punished for being an early adopter.
@Tehrab:
Actually, Beta is a technically better format than VHS and was used, up to the advent of digital video, in TV and movie production. Same with MiniDisc in audio applications. Yes, these formats don't succeed in the consumer arena, but they are technologically viable and used.
@Padriac:
Playstation isn't a format, it's a platform. Playstation used the CD format, PS2 used the DVD format, and PS3 uses the Blu-Ray format. Thanks for playing.
SirDanF
Aleung
Posted 4:32 PM 6/12/07
I think the format war is actually helping blue ray. Blue ray spec. is clearly better, but it takes time to implement everything. If blue ray is the only format, the media company can slowly implement new features to sell the same movie over and over again. With HD DVD, Blue ray have to move faster to stay alive. I hope in two, three years full spec. Blue ray disc and players will be available and 1080P TV will be $300.
Aleung
kcmurphy88
Posted 4:24 PM 6/12/07
Well, you obviously don't get the meaning of "feature" when you list the ones missing on HD DVD and forget the big one missing from Blu-ray: COMBO discs.
It may be hard for single or childless people to grasp, but families typically have one HDTV at best, with the kids having several SD sets, each with their own (cheap) DVD player.
The need to avoid conflicts, and to keep the adult's TV free for the adult's viewing is also very important.
Enter combo discs, which are to families THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT feature possible. With blu-ray you have to buy both the blu-ray and the DVD (which may help Sony, but not the consumer). With Combo HDs, you don't.
So forget all the nonsense about specs or compatibility or who makes what -- combo discs may be aggravating to you single folks, but to families they are a darn sight more important that some TV special extra.
Pretend when you analyze stuff that not everyone is like you.
kcmurphy88
slungsolow
Posted 4:11 PM 6/12/07
@Padriac: Yeah, but by the time triple-layer HD DVD rolled around Blu-ray would have finalized it's spec with PIP and internet connections across the board, so the point is moot.
The point is not too moot. The new Blu-ray specs will involve putting out new hardware (and therefore early adopters get the shaft on these features), while the new HD-DVD triple layer discs only require new media and a slight change in the disc manufacturing process.
slungsolow
jm9843
Posted 4:09 PM 6/12/07
@TONY C:
The PS3 would have to be updated to profile 2.0 to enable Blu-ray web-enabled extras. The PS3 is a "standard" profile (1.0) Blu-ray player currently.
Try to keep up pal.
jm9843
Padriac
Posted 4:06 PM 6/12/07
@dagamer34: And Halo 3 and Mass Effect aren't really worth $399 to me (Gears: PC; Bioshock: PC)... so does that mean the 360 has no games as well?
And Warhawk is one of the best console multiplayer games, period. You don't get to discount it just because you want to.
Padriac
dangj307
Posted 4:03 PM 6/12/07
HD DVD add on for the 360 sucks:
[gizmodo.com]
Hmm, article fails to mention the state of HD DVD, getting its ass kicked in every region except the US, where it is only getting beat 2:1. That is the state of HD DVD. oh, and weekly sales as reported by Nielsen got worse after the massive sales of the A2 players.
If I'm watching a movie and icon pops up during the movie, I'm punching someone. If I'm watching a movie and someone turns on PiP, I'm punching htem.
dangj307
sangarts2
Posted 4:02 PM 6/12/07
is anybody waiting to buy- like me? Anyone know what Bose and higher end brands are doing about players?
sangarts2
Noobs-R-Us
Posted 3:57 PM 6/12/07
Come one folks! Do you really expect the American public to have the intelligence to pick the right format?!?
This after they elected that idiot into office, TWICE!!??
How apropos that Blu-ray and HD-DVD is divided into blue and red...(states).
Noobs-R-Us
Tony C
Posted 3:46 PM 6/12/07
No Internet-connected Blu-ray players? Ummm... How about the PlayStation 3?
Another negative to the XBOX 360 remotes is that they're infrared, so you need clear line of sight to use it.
HOSERELDER: If you look closely under the "Subtitles" box, you'll read "The rebellion begins!" too, only in smaller type along with the short movie description that wouldn't fit on the back of the HD-DVD cover because the features box was too big.
Tony C
topcatticus
Posted 3:36 PM 6/12/07
@axiomatic: I too, bought the HD-DVD add on for the 360, but I promptly returned it. HD-DVD playback on the Xbox 360, even over HDMI, sucks balls. Maybe that's a little harsh. It's decent, I suppose.
Compared to Blu-Ray playback on the PS3, it's no contest: the PS3 is far and away the better system for HD content playback.
topcatticus
axiomatic
Posted 3:32 PM 6/12/07
To those saying the 360 is loud. It is, but only when playing games.
When the HD-DVD drive is in use it is far more quiet. In fact, my 360 is actually up on my desk and I just popped in a HD-DVD and can not hear it spinning.
But as I said, the internal DVD drive on the 360, INSANELY loud.
axiomatic
manhattan01
Posted 3:21 PM 6/12/07
I recall on black friday the sales on Amazon...where they offer consumers a chance to vote which item of 3 gets their super low price. The 3 items were a blue ray player (Samsung I think), an HD DVD player (Toshiba) and the Tivo HD player. The HD DVD player garnered 38% of the votes winning the vote. Second was Tivo. Third was Blue ray. I thought that was pretty interesting...mind you, I'm not yet in the market for either just yet but I'm trying to keep abreast of things.
manhattan01
cduran02
Posted 3:20 PM 6/12/07
@tomaartist: Exactly, HD-DVD just seems like a kludged solution, like they hacked a DVD to make it store a little more data on it.
cduran02
ANoel
Posted 3:19 PM 6/12/07
Even before I get a chance to read this post - GREAT illustration again Jesus! You get better and better!
ANoel
15minutesoffame
Posted 3:18 PM 6/12/07
@dagamer34:
LOL that flame war was settled 10 months ago and is thankfully not to be revived here.
15minutesoffame
cduran02
Posted 3:16 PM 6/12/07
@iDeadman: Both HD and BR players also play DVDs, in fact they also upscale DVDs to make them look a little better.
cduran02
TasteTheFlava
Posted 3:12 PM 6/12/07
@iDeadman: You can play DVDs on either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray drives. They're backwards compatible.
TasteTheFlava
Husar
Posted 3:02 PM 6/12/07
This was the best article I have read on the format war. I learned a lot from it. And I am happy with my decision to purchase a Toshiba HD-DVD player. I am a 360 gamers as are my kids. I am happy that I did not get the 360 player simply because if I want to watch a movie and the kids want to game (or vise versa) we can do it. The price to get a PS3 and then another Blue-Ray player is just not worth it. All the games we like are on 360 and many are not on PS3 as someone else mentioned. But that being said had I been able to pick up a BR player for $200 or less I might have went with BR. So after reading this article I am glad I went HD-DVD.
Husar
tomaartist
Posted 2:45 PM 6/12/07
Thomas the Tank Engine contains lead paint... very poisoness comments.
hd-dvd has to connect to internet to get options that it can not hold
because the disk is small. Menus options on hd-dvd is limited to
a generic layout with a SD loop playing in the back ground because again
lack of space. The format won't last as technology changes like dvd.
Blu-ray because of it's compacity of 50 gigs can change with time and get
better, whereas hd-dvd is limited.
tomaartist
dagamer34
Posted 2:39 PM 6/12/07
List games that are exclusives and don't suck.
PS3 games that can be had on other consoles: Rock Band, Guitar Hero 3, Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty 4, Unreal Tournament
PS3 games that aren't console movers (which is what the PS3 needs): Motorstorm, Warhawk
So you've got Resistance, Uncharted, and Ratchet & Clank left. Not really worth $399 to me.
dagamer34
iDeadman
Posted 2:30 PM 6/12/07
you know...
what the hell are we suppose to do with the DVD's after we get an HD or BR player?
i have 4 boxes full of movies...I'm not planning on restocking all of them to HD DVD's or BR.
screw this war...
iDeadman
Padriac
Posted 2:23 PM 6/12/07
@jriga: Not to beat a dead horse, but: Resistance, Motorstorm, Warhawk, Heavenly Sword, Skate, Rock Band, Guitar Hero 3, Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty 4, Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, Unreal Tournament...
The "PS3 has no games" argument just isn't true anymore. Maybe you like the 360's "exclusives" (don't count the PC!) more, but that's not the same as the PS3 having no games.
Padriac
Dave Ryan
Posted 2:18 PM 6/12/07
@axiomatic: I, too, have the X360 HD DVD drive and the PS3. Unlike you, though, I have no preference between the two from a visual/features standpoint -- although I don't have a ton of HD discs in my collection. My concerns are more estoteric, and there's a +1 for each side:
(1) PS3/Blu-ray: much quieter, but Bluetooth remote is laggy
(2) X360/HD: Loud! But the remote is nice and responsive.
That's really about it. I think some of the other differences -- the differing audio encoding formats, for example -- aren't things that the average consumer using average equipment can distinguish.
Dave Ryan
Padriac
Posted 2:18 PM 6/12/07
@Tehrab: Yeah, the Playstation format sure was a failure... It was over aa decade of dominance (and the worldwide fate of the PS3 is still an open question), which is just about exactly how long DVD will last as a standard, primary format.
@axiomatic: Yeah, but by the time triple-layer HD DVD rolled around Blu-ray would have finalized it's spec with PIP and internet connections across the board, so the point is moot. Basically for the next year it's "do I want internet extras" or "do I want HD extras". And in a year Blu-ray will likely have both.
Padriac
Bokusatsu_Tenshi
Posted 2:16 PM 6/12/07
Like I said several times on topics like this one... the only thing that matters to me in new gen formats is:
Who will release a cheap ass drive recorder with cheap ass media first?
My sight is crappy, so TV or HDTV doesn't really matter.
Hell, I can be plenty satisfied watching VHS...
And for all I read from both formats, HD-DVD is way closer to achieving that than BluRay.
BluRay needs to consolidate a standard fast. I've read too many problems while trying to play BluRay movies, mainly due to each BluRay player using a different set of standards thus causing major problems.
Bokusatsu_Tenshi
jriga
Posted 2:14 PM 6/12/07
For me, the format war boils down to the game system. I hate, hate, hate the 360 for it's noisy fans, crappy interface, 12lb power brick, horrid design, and the fact that everything is an 'add-on'. BUT... it has the games. And if I'm going to have a machine to play games and watch movies in HD I just prefer it to be one-in-the-same. So... I HAD to get the HD DVD add-on for the 360.
I would LOVE it if the PS3 had games, but without games it's just a huge Blue-Ray DVD Player with an awkward remote. It's definitely got superior hardware, is nice to look at, quiet, etc... it just has no games like Mass Effect, Halo 3, BioShock, etc...
As a result I'm forced to put up with MS crap. But rest assured - once some games hit for the PS3 and developers start really taking advantage of the RSX Engine, I'll eBay the hell out of my 360.
jriga
Joseph
Posted 2:06 PM 6/12/07
@CruJones: Didn't you see the M$ Zune ad's posted all over the site earlier this morning?
Joseph
axiomatic
Posted 2:05 PM 6/12/07
I own both a 360 with the HD-DVD drive and a PS3 and I can tell you without reservation that I like HD-DVD better. I will concede that at least on the Harry Potter DVD that Bluray's "extra content" is in HD where the HD-DVD extras are in SD. HOWEVER dMek I feel is incorrect that this is because Bluray is a better spec. It's just the simple fact that there is more space on the Bluray disc itself.
I read that HD-DVD should have a triple layer disc that levels the space lead Bluray currently has.
axiomatic
hoserelder
Posted 2:02 PM 6/12/07
Love that, on the HD-DVD Harry Potter...
THE REBELLION BEGINS!
hoserelder
Tehrab
Posted 1:59 PM 6/12/07
Betamax, MiniDisc, MagicGate, UMD and now Blu-Ray?
Is there no end to Sony's incompetence when it comes to formats? With everything in its favor to crush HD-DVD as a format, the fact that they haven't done so already is a loss and a signpost to the inevitable.
Tehrab
Jordan Lund
Posted 1:57 PM 6/12/07
@CHILICOKE
You can use those two links to see upcoming releases as well...
I also found it interesting that out of the 427 Blu-Ray titles, only 286 of them are exclusive to Blu-ray. This compares with 241 exclusives on the HD-DVD side. (Again, a difference of 45.)
Of the future dated releases there are 57 HD-DVD (33 exclusive to the format) and 73 upcoming Blu-ray releases (49 exclusives).
This is not the tidal wave of titles that Blu-Ray fans would have us expect.
Jordan Lund
Galley
Posted 1:52 PM 6/12/07
The Onkyo player was recently recalled after releasing a handful (literally) in Europe.
Galley
chilicoke
Posted 1:45 PM 6/12/07
@Jordan Lund: it is also logical to factor in the head start HD-DVD had over Blu-Ray, number of movies already released is not enough evidence to argue the number of studio support. Whats more important is the number of titles releasing weekly now, and the coming year(s).
chilicoke
Shervyn
Posted 1:44 PM 6/12/07
meh...who cares...until someone comes up with a plan that does not force me to buy the 100s of DVDs I already own all over again at full cost, I am not going to commit to either BD or HD. Neither is a compelling enough leap technologically to make it worth my time or money.
Shervyn
crash
Posted 1:42 PM 6/12/07
Both formats are on the clock. If they don't penetrate the market soon, they may never get the chance. If holographic discs reach the market in the next year or two, it's clear tech superiority may put it ahead in a hurry. The longer the two industries fight, the more likely they'll both become irrelevant.
crash
agrajag42
Posted 1:36 PM 6/12/07
I'm saddened that I know that it is Thomas the Train and NOT the Little Engine that could. Fix the pic!
agrajag42
Jordan Lund
Posted 1:35 PM 6/12/07
Everyone talks about how Blu-Ray has more studio support, but the thing of it is, if you check the list of titles:
Blu-Ray
[bluray.highdefdigest.com]
HD-DVD
[hddvd.highdefdigest.com]
There are 427 Blu-Ray titles in release compared to 382 HD-DVD titles. That's only a difference of 45 discs. It's not the significant difference you'd expect from Blu-Ray having that much more studio support.
In fact, the HD-DVD library is 89.46% the size of the Blu-Ray library.
Jordan Lund
Canoehead
Posted 1:32 PM 6/12/07
While all HD-DVD players have an ethernet port, all Blu-Ray players output 1080P - unlike the lowest tier of HD-DVD players, which are also glacially slow and tend to hang when accessing the net (I have the HD-A2, maybe the A3 is better). All that said, Blu-Ray is about a year behind in terms of finalizing its hardware specs, which is why the only Blu player I would buy now is the PS3, since it is among the cheapest and has the greatest potential for upgrades (via its gigabit ethernet port).
Canoehead
alexlr
Posted 1:31 PM 6/12/07
High Def as in High Definition in general, not specifically an HD-DVD player (or a Blu Ray player for that matter).
alexlr
alexlr
Posted 1:30 PM 6/12/07
Wasn't there a (smaller) bru-ha-ha over DVD-R and DVD+R a few years back? Your media would only work in certain drives, and then, eventually, it didn't matter? I'm not sure, as I don't burn a lot of DVDs, but I think the burner I have in my Mac Pro can at least read (and possibly even burn) both formats these days.
Perhaps this is what will happen with Blu Ray and HD-DVD in a few years? Everything will just "work" and the consumer won't even care what format it is as long as it plays when they stick in their High Def DVD player...
alexlr
SalParadise
Posted 1:28 PM 6/12/07
Ah, Sony vs. Microsoft. My two favorite consumer companies. Let's see, on the one hand we have Sony, the company that tried to put a root kit on my computer, lied about it, and then botched the removal tool. And then we have Microsoft, the company whose vision of innovation is being able to make more and more stuff (such as Microsoft Office, Internet Explorer, and, quite possibly, Minesweeper) part of the Operating System.
Who to support? It is so hard to choose between two such worthy contenders!
I think I'll vote for movies on demand. I already have too many CDs, DVDs and books (remember those?) littering the house. In the future, everything is a stream of bit, available off the Internet, whenever you want it. And the future will arrive just about the time those sub $200 hi-def players go mainstream.
SalParadise
dMek
Posted 1:26 PM 6/12/07
You also glanced over a huge disadvantage to the HD-DVD version of Harry Potter. Not only is the 45 minute long High Definition documentary on the Making of Harry Potter eliminated on the HD-DVD version, but all of the extras are in 480p. On the Blu-Ray disc all of the video features are in high definition, with the addition 45 minute documentary included. So it's basically pick your poison, as both versions have advantages and disadvantages.
dMek
CruJones
Posted 1:24 PM 6/12/07
Wow, I thought Gizmodo's were Apple Fan Boys so it surprises me they are also fan boys of an MS-backed conspiracy (just ask Michael Bay). ;)
CruJones
WilCon
Posted 1:22 PM 6/12/07
What bugs me is that I the consumer want a good quality item with alot of storage. Blu-Ray almost fits it with the quality being lacking in user experience. Then again I hate all that extra crap anyway. BD has more capabilities in my mind nuff said but hey what do I know.
WilCon
Padriac
Posted 1:22 PM 6/12/07
Regarding the Harry Potter disc:
You fail to mention that the extras on HD DVD are good old fashioned Standard Definition while on the Blu-Ray disc they are in 1080 HD. This is directly due to technical advantages of the Blu-ray format and thus a big deal.
So on HD DVD you can get some online feature and the "in movie experience" while on Blu-ray you get, you know, *actual high definition*.
Padriac
Techguy1138
Posted 1:20 PM 6/12/07
"How in hell has the HD DVD camp lasted this long? And how will the format's backers stay competitive in the next year in the face of cheaper and more plentiful Blu-ray players"
MS is wealthy enough to loose billions a year on home entertainment and not bat an eye.
Toshiba is so damn large it can't be fathomed. Their CE division is huge and funded by DVD sales. They can subsidize that division with the sale of Nuclear reactor components, or other heavy industry sales.
Don't be fooled. Sony may be 'big' but even with all the other content companies and CE BD is at a disadvantage.
Techguy1138
daftrok
Posted 1:20 PM 6/12/07
What will bring and end to the format war is if they JUST WORK TOGETHER. I don't care about director commentary or picture in picture. I just want 1080p movies with 5.1/7.1 surround sound for 20 bucks. I want a 1080p capable player for 100 bucks. DONE.
daftrok
arkowi
Posted 1:20 PM 6/12/07
I was staying out of this next gen otptical battle. however, the $100 Tosh A2 was too good to pass up. One day, if all the movies I want don't come to HD-DVD I'll get a PS3.
arkowi
Hodo
Posted 1:16 PM 6/12/07
Pretty good summary. Lost in that analysis, however, is the manufacturing issues around disc production -- and area where HD DVD again has an edge because it is not quite the "leap" ahead that BD was meant to be.
I believe that reasonably priced (i.e., $350) dual format players are what will bring this format war to an end.
Hodo
15minutesoffame
Posted 1:15 PM 6/12/07
HD DVD always seemed like the logical successor to DVD to me. Like TV to HD TV. Its prolly not going away any time soon and this dual format thing has slowed down adoption of either tech so much that downloadable HD movies may be where the future is at.
15minutesoffame
Taime
Posted 1:09 PM 6/12/07
If Thomas the Tank Engine is HD-DVD, I know where I will invest my money to support my childhood memories.
Taime
Kaiser-Machead
Posted 1:06 PM 6/12/07
The picture is hilarious.
Kaiser-Machead
MarcFen
Posted 5:42 PM 6/12/07
bring back laserdisk
MarcFen
ViewtifulJason
Posted 5:40 PM 6/12/07
Fuck yeah, Thomas.
Now convince my mom to replace her 480p DVD player hooked up with COMPOSITE cables to her 50" 720p TV to upgrade to an HD-A3, and we can see a brighter future for the format. Hell I certainly like it every time I pass the HD DVD setup at Best Buy.
ViewtifulJason
Padriac
Posted 5:33 PM 6/12/07
@Gelnika: Power Macs used liquid cooling for quite some time. The benefits of Aegis cards are debatable. What the hell does this have to do with anything?
I use Vista, XP, and OS X in various forms all day. But at home I use choose to use OS X. What exactly is it that I don't know how to do? Wouldn't Linux users say the same thing about Windows users? (I don't know what you use, so I'm not sure if you are going for the "Windows is harder to use therefore it's better angle" or the "Linux is more leet than everything" angle.
@SirDanF: Format, platform... do we really need to get semantic here? PlayStation games only play in playstation players, Blu-ray discs only play in Blu-ray players. Same damn thing. The point is that something being "endorsed" by Sony does not automatically make it a failure. Sony was not alone in creating the Blu-ray format/platform.
@parad0x360: It's been verified that Warner titles look pretty much identical on BD or HD DVD since they use the SAME EXACT ENCODE. Saying one looks better than the other is like a fanboy litmus test that you just failed. You could argue that the best HD DVD encodes look better than the worse Blu-ray encodes, but that's a pointless comparison.
@kcmurphy88: Even most HD DVD fanboys will admit that the combo disc thing failed. It has some uses, as you mentioned, but in the end it only ends up making HD DVD discs cost MORE than Blu-ray discs (so which format is more expensive again?) and they have had countless production issues with the process. I'd say your better off buying a $25 Blu-ray and a $10 DVD version for the kids than you are buying a $30 combo disc (sure you lose $5, but you don't have your kids mucking with your HD discs)
Padriac
Noobs-R-Us
Posted 5:27 PM 6/12/07
BTW, the next generation video will be 4K. The average 4K movie is about 12 TeraB. If using a lossy compression like VC1 or H264, it gets reduced to about 40GB. Let's see how HD-DVD deal with that!
Blu-ray will have no problems doing it in 2 layers. HD-DVD will have to do 4 layers. When has anyone ever seen an optical medium do 4 layers in the wild?
Noobs-R-Us
Gelnika
Posted 5:10 PM 6/12/07
I feel the same for blu-ray as i do for anything from Apple. it's made for people who dont know how to use the real product.
i'd like to see an apple take a aegis card. or liquid cooling. sorry had to prove my point.
i've owned an hd player for quite some time now, and it has never failed to amaze me, or wow anyone else that visits. and the menu's and special features are flawless.
Gelnika
dhaberer
Posted 5:06 PM 6/12/07
who actually watches any of the special features on dvds or high definintion discs? Lose all the special features, let the movie take up all the disc space and be the best quality possible. When i put a disc in the drive, I want the movie to be the first thing to start, nothing else. Fortunately, I redo all my dvd's this way and stream them. No unwanted trash. Maybe they'll be able to get the prices of discs to a reasonable level. I'm a bluray fan, mainly because that's what I have and most of the movies I love are on bluray. There's absolutely no incentive for me to buy either. I only got the bluray as a bonus to my ps3. the quality difference is noticable on my 60" 1080p, but not enough to spend the ridiculous prices on the movies.
dhaberer
Wilson Rothman
Posted 4:52 PM 6/12/07
@kcmurphy88: Not sure who you're hurling vague accusations at, but I mention combo discs right up at the top of the story as one big advantage HD DVD has over Blu-ray. So... like... happy?
Wilson Rothman
parad0x360
Posted 4:48 PM 6/12/07
I have the ability to use both formats as I own a 360 with hd-dvd addon and a ps3.
So far blu-ray has done nothing but piss me off. The popup menu sucks (if the disk supports it), sometimes you cant exit a feature, you have to either skip ahead or stop and restart the disk to get back to the menu and worst of all when comparing picture quality HD-DVD has thus far been superior. The hd-dvd camp must be using a higher quality transfer method, or a better codec because the picture is just sharper and more colorful.
If i have the option of what format to buy on it will always be hd-dvd, and i will never buy a blu-ray without first renting it on netflix because so many of the movies dont look much better then a normal dvd.
BTW i watch everything at 1080p over HDMI on a Sony Bravia so I know my tv isnt at fault for the quality difference. Oh and never buy a hd movie retail, amazon is always cheaper sometimes by more then $10.
parad0x360
firesign
Posted 4:45 PM 6/12/07
@SirDanF: to be fair, the beta equipment used for tv and movie production was superbeta and was a lot higher quality than the consumer stuff that was sold back in the day. and for years the umatic format (also sony) was a lot more prevalent in the industry.
firesign
92BuickLeSabre
Posted 4:40 PM 6/12/07
@Husar: Amen to the post kudos.
Wilson Rothman has quickly become a post-superstar in my book.
(And by that I mean a superstar of posts, not some kind of french-critical-theory-meta-take-on-the-notion-of-stardom...of course.)
92BuickLeSabre
aphxtwn
Posted 4:37 PM 6/12/07
If the PS3 wasn't a bluray player, there would be no competition between bluray and hd dvd. Whichever HD media player we see first at a local grocery store will be the winner. If it's any indication, a cheaper hd dvd player has reached Walmart, which would lead me to believe hd dvd is much closer to hitting the demographic sweet spot than bluray. Despite better retail bluray movie support, I think hd dvd will win in the long run because of the hardware pricing, but it will be a slow and painful victory.
aphxtwn
Noobs-R-Us
Posted 4:36 PM 6/12/07
The Only feature that's important for the long term survival of a format is CAPACITY. That's true for any new format. If you have enough capacity, you can overcome many deficiencies. The fact that HD-DVD is almost 1/2 the capacity of Blu-ray means that it's doomed. After all, if you think about it, why are we getting rid to the DVD format so soon after it's introduction? Simply put, the DVD ran out of space to fit new content, in this case, new HD content.
HD-DVD is only a short term fix. Only an idiot would support it. It's only been out for one year and already it's showing it's lack of sustainability due to its inability to hold multiple HD content extras. Just take a look at the Potter disc. Soon , you will have to have 2 discs HD-DVD sets just like the regular DVDs to hold all the extra content. Not so with Blu-ray. It will be a few more years before we start to tap out of capacity of that format.
So, the choice is simple. Buy HD-DVD like an idiot and in 5 years replace it with an even newer format Toshiba will come out with due to running out of space or Blu-ray and have that timeline stretch out to 8-9 years.
Noobs-R-Us
topgunner
Posted 8:42 PM 6/12/07
@sangarts2: Bose is anything but a higher end brand and they are certainly behind the curve on technology. They just recently started adding high definition outputs on their $3k and $4k Lifestyle systems and the built in DVD players on those units output a lower quality image than most $40 DVD players.
topgunner
Techguy1138
Posted 8:31 PM 6/12/07
@SirDanF:
Actually all future BD disks will work on all BD players. The extra features may not work but it is a requirement.
This may not be true for HD-DVD. There has been a recent announcement for 3 and 4 layer HD-DVD's. These disks require a physically different laser power to read the new layers. The old players may not have the ability to play the new disks. Right now they don't exist but it was a big announcement.
Techguy1138
Techguy1138
Posted 8:28 PM 6/12/07
@parad0x360:
What BD titles don't look better then their dvd counter parts? I have never run into this. Can you please list them so I don't wind up with them?
Techguy1138
Sloth
Posted 8:19 PM 6/12/07
That's right, Nobody messes with Thomas the Tank Engine, He's the Shizznick on the railroad Y'all!
Sloth
prodigal_son
Posted 7:53 PM 6/12/07
@agrajag42: Its Thomas the Tank Engine, not thomas the train.
prodigal_son
ibelli
Posted 7:03 PM 6/12/07
@Padriac: Thats kind of a good point, when I'm watching a movie for the first time, I don't want anything "popping" up on my screen. Likewise, If i have seen teh movie already, I would rather go to a menu and select the features I'd like to see. Who needs PIP?
ibelli
TheFaze
Posted 6:49 PM 6/12/07
Apparently Giz has gone the way of Gamespot. Ad money from M$ means shilling their format.
TheFaze
Krondonian
Posted 6:34 PM 6/12/07
I like Standard Definition, dammit! Bring back the VHS, cathode ray TVs, and Cassette Tapes. Oooh yeah...
Krondonian
glocksout
Posted 6:18 PM 6/12/07
A couple mistakes in the article:
1) The author writes the Samsung player has "support for Blu-ray discs that Sony and Pioneer won't be able to play." This is not true. 1.1 profile discs will play in 1.0 players. In fact all of the 1.1 content will play in every Blu-ray player regardless of version. The difference is the interface.
2) The author states, "HD DVD players don't have to have HDi, but at the moment, it's obviously the software with the most momentum." All HD DVD players have support for HDi, and it is required. The LG BH100 does not have support for HDi so it does not bear the HD DVD logo or certification. The way the author wrote this it makes it sound as if there are competing authoring languages with HD DVD, but that's not the case, HDi is the only supported menu system for HD DVD.
glocksout
Sloth
Posted 6:15 PM 6/12/07
Toshiba HD-A2 $89.98
Transformers on HD-DVD $24.95
TOTAL = $114.93
BEST DAMN CONSUMER ELECTRONICS PURCHASE I HAVE MADE IN MY LIFE!
You can't beat Optimus in HD! Now to get my wife to start calling me "Prime!"
Sloth
MegaZone
Posted 11:04 PM 6/12/07
"It is also becoming typical for combo discs to be released with DVD on one side and HD DVD on the other, making them eminently more compatible. (Blu-ray can't do this.)"
This is doubly incorrect. The combo discs are actually falling OUT of favor, and most combo sets bundle a standard DVD with an HD DVD in one case now. The combo discs cost more to make than two single-format discs, because of higher failure rates. And they're less popular with both vendors and consumers because there is no place to print a label as both sides hold data. All the same reasons DVD18 died in favor of two DVD9 discs. And Blu-ray *can* do it. Dual-sided Blu-ray/DVD discs have been demonstrated. Since the substrate on BD is 1.1mm thick, and a DVD layer is only .6mm thick, it isn't an issue. On top of that, the BDA has shown *single sided* dual-format discs with a BD layer 'over' a DVD layer, so they can still have a label. But both of these suffer from the higher cost issue, and it is still more effective to just bundle a DVD - they have to print the DVD *anyway* for all the DVD-only sales. Driving costs per unit down even more.
"Samsung BD-UP5000 Duo ($800): Since this upcoming device
famously has stated support for Blu-ray discs that Sony and Pioneer won't be able to play, it's easy to forget that it's also billed as a fully compliant HD DVD player. But the reviews say it's a winner in both arenas."
The BD-UP5000 does indeed look like a good player - if expensive - the statement about Sony and Pioneer is incorrect. The BD Profiles are backwards compatible. A BD 1.1 disc will play on a BD 1.0 player, and a BD 2.0 (aka BD Live) disc will play on a BD 1.1 or BD 1.0 player. The specs are additive. A BD 1.0 player will not be able to access PIP content that is added by BD 1.1. And a 1.0 or 1.1 player would not be able to access online content added by 2.0. But everything else still works. (And some vendors have indicated that some of the 1.0 players may have the hardware for 1.1, and just need firmware to enable it.)
"Besides selling the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on drive, Microsoft helped write the HD DVD video spec, including VC-1 compression. It also licenses the HDi runtime engine, developed with Toshiba, that enables interactivity on Toshiba players and those of other licensees. HD DVD players don't have to have HDi, but at the moment, it's obviously the software with the most momentum."
This is kind of confused. VC-1 is the SMPTE's standardized version of WMV9, and it is used by BOTH HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc. HDi was co-developed by Microsoft and Toshiba, and largely it was Microsoft. They've built it into Vista and to push it they offered it to the DVD Forum for standardization as part of the HD DVD proposal. And *all* HD DVD players MUST support HDi, just as all BD players must support BD-J. If a player doesn't support HDi, then it cannot use the official HD DVD logo or any of the other licensed items - that's what LG's first combo deck did. It would play an HD DVD, but just play the main content - no menus, features, etc. BD-J actually offers more power for developers than HDi, but Microsoft has offered a lot of support for HDi development - something the BDA could learn a bit from.
"The not-so-secret secret is that a CH-DVD player is an HD DVD player whose laser is set at a different modulation. While you could never play an HD DVD on a CH-DVD player, it is physically more or less the same product. Manufacturing can happen side by side, using the same components such as processors and optical pick-ups."
Based on what has been reported, CH-DVD uses the same laser and media and HD DVD, just with software changes. So it is even more similar than you state. but the BDA is also working with China on a BD standard for China. More than the HD DVD camp, they're considering incorporating China's requirements into a revision of the global standard. CH-DVD doesn't exist yet, it is a paper standard. Nothing final has been decided for the Chinese market, and China has been neutral. They just insist on having some domestic technology incorporated - which is what CH-DVD did. China could be even more pleased if the BDA incorporates their codecs, etc, globally and not just for a ghetto spec for China only.
I fully agree that the war is far from over now, despite my earlier feelings that Blu-ray was a clear winner. I still believe Blu-ray will win in the long run, but I'm not as confident as I once was. I am still fully confident that HD DVD will never 'win' the war. The only two options I can see are BD winning, or a stalemate with both formats surviving indefinitely. There are a few things that could tip the scales - such as Warner picking sides - but the war isn't just in the US, and BD is winning globally. 9:1 in Japan with a similar lead in Australia, 3:1 in Europe, 2:1 in the US. HD DVD would have to do something huge to completely defeat Blu-ray. And the longer the war drags on, the less of an advantage HD DVD will have. BD player costs will continue to drop too, and HD DVD is going to bottom out first, so the gap will continue to shrink there.
MegaZone
Hawk07
Posted 11:00 PM 6/12/07
Good article. Unfortunately, the PS3 and Xbox are probably not the best mediums to be viewing HD video content on. They're first and foremost gaming machines that support HD content on the side. For example, the PS2 and Xbox make crappy, subpar DVD players. Unfortunately, dedicated bluray and HD-DVD players are still pricey for the average consumer, so I understand you having to go with the game consoles.
Hawk07
Accelerata
Posted 9:40 PM 6/12/07
@Tehrab: They did get one right. Sony was a developer of the Compact Disc standard that served us well for years. But yeah, overall I've never been happy with their "we can invent a better wheel than anyone else" mentality.
Accelerata
Seiven
Posted 8:59 PM 6/12/07
Excellent review...good to see a non biased view on the upcoming technology. thank you.
Seiven
dcartist
Posted 10:38 AM 7/12/07
I refuse to buy a lu-ray player, because it's advantages are mostly vaporware hype.
Besides, when they eventually cut the PS3 price to $149 in August, I'll be able to pick up that blu-ray player on the cheap.
dcartist
dionion
Posted 5:43 AM 7/12/07
So the author pretty much hates everything about Blu-ray and loves everything about HD-DVD. HD-DVD advantages are magnified (Web content? Ringtones, wallpapers and share your bookmarks... I mean really?) and Blu-ray advantages are simply not mentioned (everything in 1080p, broad manufacturer support - the latter is mentioned as a con for God's sake!)
This is the sort of fanboy drivel you regularly read on forums but I didn't expect to see it posted as serious commentary on Gizmodo.
dionion
Monsterdog
Posted 4:33 AM 7/12/07
Well, I guess a lot more people drive bicycles than Porsches because they are either poor or cheap.
Monsterdog
Jordan Lund
Posted 4:08 AM 7/12/07
@ NOOBS-R-US
If capacity is the only thing that matters then HD-DVD has already won.
How? Because the dual layer Blu-Ray discs have such a high failure rate they're almost impossible to manufacture in bulk.
Virtually all Blu-Ray movies are single layer, 25 GB discs.
Meanwhile virtually all HD-DVD movies are dual layer, 30 GB discs.
DOH!
Jordan Lund
Seiven
Posted 3:31 AM 7/12/07
@Noobs-R-Us:
ok no PHD here but is 15 vs 25 = 50%?
or 30 vs 50 = 50%?
do a little math and realize that BD discs can't easily add more layers than 2 like they would like you to think because the information is .1mm from the surface, thus needing the extra coating...try cramming 2 more layers in there. while you could conceivably add 1-2 more layers to an HDDVD relatively cheap due to the thickness of the disc. But have we even seen triple layer or quad layer DVDs yet? Cost is king and Sony is well practiced at manufacturing failures when it comes to media formats.
Seiven
nick_r
Posted 1:57 AM 7/12/07
Happily sitting out this little war. Well, not happily, exactly, since I would love to be watching HD films on disc at home, but not so unhappy as to forsake pragmatism.
There's every chance that Blu-Ray will be victorious. There's also every chance that HD-DVD will be victorious. There's also every chance that neither of these formats will exist in three years. Or that Blu-Ray will "win" by default but Universal never produces any Blu-Ray discs because of some catch-22 with Toshiba. And so on, and so forth. I'll be ready with my wallet when the dust settles.
nick_r
kcmurphy88
Posted 1:56 PM 7/12/07
Everything in 1080p for both formats. On the disc, it is all 1080p/24 frames/second, at least for movies. Either 1080p or 1080i can transfer the entire frame set to the TV in the time available. At 1080p (60 frame/second) the player transfers 24 frames in 2/5ths of the available time. At 1080i (30 frames/second), it does it in 4/5ths of the available time. Some frames are sent more than once in both cases.
So long as the TV can sort stuff out, it makes no difference, and one can make a case that 1080i players are less prone to error.
kcmurphy88
Jordan Lund
Posted 12:41 PM 7/12/07
@DIONION, KNAPPOLEON
Everything is 1080p on the HD-DVD side as well. The idea that HD-DVD only did 1080i is obsolete.
Jordan Lund
knappoleon
Posted 12:29 PM 7/12/07
yeah the whole point of everything being in 1080p....um hello, thats the future of movies here. If you can't cut that, I don't even buy the movie now.
knappoleon
SirDanF
Posted 7:17 PM 7/12/07
@Padriac:
That's a reductive fallacy. There's a bigger difference than you let on. Your comparison is flawed and, therefore, so is your argument. Not to imply that I don't agree with what you're trying to say; it's just that using a specious argument doesn't help your case.
@Techguy1138:
Good. I'm glad to hear that, reading the article made me think differently. The 3-4 layer HD-DVDs don't quite give me the same reaction for the same reason you pointed out - it's just an announcement of possible technology. I guess it's back to format ambivalence for me for now.
SirDanF
robinandtami
Posted 6:54 PM 7/12/07
@dionion:
Everything on HD-DVD is 10809 as well.
As for studio support for Blu-Ray, let's just examine that for a moment. It has been known from the very beginning that hd-dvd, both discs and players, were going to be much cheaper to manufacture because of their similarity to the original dvd format. It would have seemed like a total no-brainer for the studios to jump on the hd-dvd wagon from the very beginning. Obviously cheaper players would mean that more people could/would buy them. More players in the wild, means more disc sales for that format. So why did so many choose to support blu-ray instead? Was it because they are so concerned for their customers they wanted to go with the "superior" format? Not so likely. The answer lies in DRM. We all know how crazy the RIAA and MPAA are about DRM. They seem to stupidly choose DRM over profit every chance they get. DRM is stricter on the blu-ray format, and hd-dvd is region free.
robinandtami
MegaZone
Posted 6:42 PM 7/12/07
@slungsolow: Actually, Toshiba has indicated in past statements that not all of the current players will be able to handle a 3-layer HD DVD. From what they stated, the first generation players will probably not handle it. The second generation players probably will, and the third generation definitely will.
But going to a three layer disc means revising the presses too - which means tossing out one of HD DVD's touted advantages over BD, being able to use DVD presses with few changes.
On the BD side, higher capacity discs, such as 100GB, have been demonstrated that work on existing systems with a firmware update. So both sides can play that game.
MegaZone
MegaZone
Posted 6:40 PM 7/12/07
@kcmurphy88: 1. BD can do combo discs, both dual-sided and single-sided. They don't because they cost more than just making a BD and a DVD.
2. HD DVD is moving AWAY from combo discs - for the same reason. HD DVD combo discs have been a pain for studios. Because of the much higher loss to manufacturing defects, the costs are higher. It is cheaper to press an HD DVD and a DVD and stick them in one case - which is the current trend. This is the same thing that killed DVD18. It was, and is, cheaper to press two DVD9s than to press one DVD18.
HD DVD combo discs have other drawbacks, such as both sides holding data so there is no place to print a label - other than in tiny print in the middle. Studios and consumers both like having one side of the disc labeled, and not having to worry about damaging both sides of the disc.
And, since DVD is still the dominant market, the studio is going to press the DVDs *anyway*. So that cost is moot. You just take a DVD off the DVD line and stick it in a two disc case with an HD DVD (or BD).
All of these factors add up to combo discs losing favor.
MegaZone
MegaZone
Posted 6:29 PM 7/12/07
@Jordan Lund: Virtually all BD movies are single-layer? Bullshit. 48% are BD50, 52% are BD25: [www.blu-raystats.com]
And most of the BD25 releases were earlier discs, the trend has been toward BD50 for newer releases, so that split will continue to shift toward BD50.
As for HD DVD, yes, about 86% are HDDVD30: [www.hddvdstats.com]
MegaZone
hoops_humphrey
Posted 2:31 PM 8/12/07
Wow. What an obviously biased article. How much money did M$ pay you to come up with this HD-DVD propaganda? Non-objective articles like this really hurt the credibility of your site. As stated in an another post the advantages of the HD-DVD have been over stress while Blu-ray has been downplayed. I especially like how you put up the screens of the back of the Harry Potter movie and "neglected" to notice that not all of the extras on the HD-DVD are actually in HD....guess they ran out of room? Of course, according to the author it seems full HD content isn't really that important which is ironic since the first two letters in the name are "H D."
Seriously Gizmodo, purge your site of FUD like this and try to salvage some credibility before it is completely gone.
hoops_humphrey
Nintenboy01
Posted 12:33 AM 12/12/07
@hoops_humphrey: When did you come out from under your bridge? Go back and harrass the three Billy Goats Gruff.
Nintenboy01