@illiniguy: How long is "a while"?

ripfire4

Wait, so this is saying that the Kuro is better than any crt tv as well? That isn't really clear from the conclusion. Hmm...are HD crt tvs even sold still?

dabu

@teejay333: AFAIK the burn in problems have largely been solved. Its still an issue only if you are irresponsible with it (IE leave your video game or movie paused for a while) I think its still possible to see problems with burn in but they are a lot less likely than they used to be.

illiniguy

@teejay333: what he said..

katorok

Is burn-in still a problem for plasmas? Because if it is I don't really care how much better the blacks are, I'm getting an LCD.

teejay333

I am a nut and happens to have three HD (720p) viewing source in the house: projector, plasma, and LCD.

I love the projector for its 120" size (max), plasma for its deep blacks and image quality, and LCD for its price ($500 for 32" purchased in Nov 06).

KenL

well it better be for that price

rodsky

Aren't the new sony XBR4, XBR5 bravias the best? The samsung that's LED backlit might have deeper blacks but that's basically the only thing it's got...

Jitty

Plasma != glossy screen. Any display technology (plasma, LCD, rear projection, etc) could have a glossy screen.

I personally do not have an issue with burn-in and have not even heard of any burn-in issue since gen-1 or 2 plasmas (we are now in gen 8?).

LCD, BTW, can get burn-in as well (OS X menu bar) but you don't have about it. Burn-in is the least of your concern.

Lastly, Much is correct that CRT has the absolute best quality but the largest ones commercially available was ~40" and could easily kill.

KenL

@Munch: HAHAHA ditto! Except mine is only just over 200 lbs. And I'm pretty sure that I'm just going to leave it for the next occupant of this apartment. ;)

cad3

@Munch: Gotta agree. The 34" XBR CRT is a great all-purpose TV. I stuck mine in a corner and don't really care that it weighs 200 lbs.

OMG!!! Ponies!!!

okay what about when you are playing a FPS for awhile....the radar image doesn't move on the screen, for example....bam. burn in. i don't want to be afraid to use my TV

MrBlahBlah

again i am disappointed to not see dlp :(

EMoShunz

I've seen the Kuro at the Pioneer store. It has, by far, the best looking picture I've ever seen on a TV. The black levels are absolutely amazing. This is coming from the owner of Panasonic 42" plasma TV with a 4,000 to 1 black level.

Obtusegoose

I like my big Sony HD CRT. Great picture, and anyone who's going to break into my house for a 250lb TV is welcome to it.

Munch

my biggest issue with plasmas is their glossy screen which glares in a brighter room. I'm still using a 30 inch sony xbr lcd from 6 years ago and it's still fantastic. i leave stuff paused for an hour sometimes cause i'm forgetful like that and there's no burn in at all.

a magic pony

So, basically, you're telling me that a $6000 tv is better than a $4500 tv?

danson

@dabu: Yes : [www.bestbuy.com]

danger_the_pirate

@MrBlahBlah: Exactly. People say "just don't leave it on pause." No one does that. It's the elements of the HUD that always remain on screen in the same place, the crosshair in the middle on FPS games, that sort of thing that I'm afraid of when it comes to burn in.

With that in mind, I'd get the LCD as well. Vertical viewing angles isn't a big deal to me. Nicer blacks are nice, but I too do not want to be afraid to use my TV.

I'm waiting for the 46" 81F to be a reasonable price before jumping.

fuzzycuffs

@OMG!!! Ponies!!!: McLuvin my XBR. Really nice bit of glass.

Windhawk

@OMG!!! Ponies!!!: That's that I have. Are you kidding? It's great! There is pretty much no chance for a thief to make off with it. As if 200 lbs isn't bad enough, 180 lbs of the weight is in the front.

cad3

@a magic pony: Well if you left something paused no a Pioneer Elite for an hour it's not like it would burn in either. Also, most likely the source you're pausing will have some kind of anti-burnin feature or the plasma will have it just in case you pause it for many, many hours.

Yes there's a glossy screen but just keep the light source to the side and not directly in front of the plasma and you'll be fine.

fusiongt

@fuzzycuffs: You would have to play an FPS for an ungodly amount of time before the crosshairs could burn in. And if you actually do turn the game off and watch some TV, then there's nothing to fear. And like I said in my previous post, if you get an Elite you don't have to worry about that kind of stuff. Pioneer made plasmas and their newest models do not burn in unless you are extremely ignorant and leave one static source on for 6 hours a day for a week. And after 100 or so hours of running the plasma you shouldn't even have to worry about that anymore. So go ahead and get an LCD but if you can afford the Pioneer Elite, it's the best TV out there.

fusiongt

Burn in is not a problem if you're smart and do some research. The TV comes out of the package on a very high bright/contrast setting which you don't need. If you turn that lower (and if you get an Elite you'll probably want to find people's TV settings online to get the best color, or ISF calibrate it) then you won't really need to worry about burn in. The person who mentioned if you are leave a static computer or game on your plasma will burn in kind of has it right but it's a bit vague... it's more like if you watch 4:3 tv for 6 hours a day (with the black bars on the sides) for a week, then you might have to worry about burn in. But seeing as how you got a widescreen plasma, you mine as well watch stuff in widescreen (duh!)

Also adding to that, once you have you plasma running for over 100 hours, you pretty much don't have to worry about burn-in. I'm not an expert on this but I believe the phosphors are a lot less suspectible to burn-in.

fusiongt

I've got a Samsung plasma and play a lot of 360 games. Same thing that ENDERVR46 says above. Static UI elements of games (think Halo, CoD, Katamari, etc) leave ghosts of themselves on the screen for a while afterwards. The longer they are onscreen, the longer they take to go away. My model has a few tools for handling burn protection, most effective of which seems to be the white scroll feature. This just kind of "washes" the entire screen with white. I let this thing go for a while after a long game session and everything clears up perfectly. This isn't exactly necessary as the retention will go away on its own. However, the manual makes it pretty clear that image retention from video games is NOT covered in the warranty, so I don't take any chances. With an LCD you obviously would never need to fiddle with this stuff, so I don't blame anyone who likes games for wanting a more worry-free panel.

k-factor

I've got a plasma and burn-in is not a problem. If you play a game for a while, the HUD will leave image retention, but it goes away after a minute or so of something else. Though I don't play for really long times, maybe 4 hours at the longest.

Black bars on movies or TV shows will leave a sharp line in full screen content for a few minutes, but it goes away. I do watch a lot of content with black bars, and the retention has never lasted more than about 2 minutes.

There really is nothing to worry about with Plasma. The worst thing about them, imo, is that like a CRT in 10 years it will have lost about 50% brightness. Good thing mine is perfect at about 35% right now. I'll just up it as it dims.

EnderVR46

@huygir: that's what she said!
But seriously, I don't want to have to constantly worry about my TV when I'm trying to enjoy myself. Personally I'm surprised that plasmas have lasted this long. It seems as though burn-in is never going to be completely solved. I think the manufactures should just completely dump plasmas and focus on improving LCDs.

teejay333

50"... not big enough.

huygir

I just picked up a 50" Hitachi plasma for $1200.00. The cheapest LCD that size (when you can find them) is well over $3000.00. I'll take my chances with burn in. If I have any problems, I will stick this tv in the bedroom in 2 years and probably pick up a 60" LCD for $500.00.

bdgbill

I have last year's Panasonic Plasma (TH-42PX60U) and all I do is play games on it. Burn-in has never been an issue like it was back in the Gen 1 & 2 days. For that reason, I don't worry about it. Like any TV I've had, if I'm going to walk away from it for a while I turn it off. Stop worrying about something that was a problem 8-10 years ago!

I'd be more worried about the response time of an LCD for playing games with ghosting issues than the burn-in of a Plasma.

zakharm

Why the hell are we still talking about burn in?

igneous

@bdgbill: 50" in the bedroom...see teejay333's comment :P

EMoShunz

@Igneous: Think of it this way.. at least people aren't asking about where they have to go to refill the plasma.

ReductiMat

Re: Burn in on the Kuro,
I just bought the 60" non-Elite kuro,
and it hasn't had any real image retention to speak of.
This is in stark contrast to my older LG plasma (42PC3D),
which gets very noticeable retention (though it's still not a huge distraction).

empathogen

Plasma burn in can definitely still be an issue. I witnessed first hand on my friends Pioneer PDP 4270 what can happen if you are not careful. He would watch X-Files(I believe on FX)every night. They 4 episodes back to back. Not only did the FX symbol burn into the bottom right corner of the screen but he often watched in standard 4:3 and had burn in from the black bars on either side. Luckily it was only VERY noticeable when he would watch hockey where it would really stand out against the white ice.
If you pay attention you may notice that on HD channels the logos in the corners appear and disappear. It's actually a preventative measure against burn in on the televisions.
Note-the burn in never went away entirely, it fade over the course of a month and a half(we eventually pulled a bait and switch for the same model TV from Best Buy...problem solved.)

Blozout

I said it on the kuro thread but it's important so worth saying again...;-p
When I finally found a page in the uk kuro website that didn't 404 on me:
[www.pioneer.co.uk]

I confirmed my worst fears...
Resolution (horizontal x vertical) 1,024 x 768

That's only for the 42" model (probably the most popular size for us Europeans with our tiny rooms!) - but that, frankly, is pathetic. I'm off to buy a Samsung or Sony LCD.

Unc.

Uncle-Meat

As some seem to have forgoten, CRTs were also prone to burn in if you left a static image on the screen for extended times. The latest generation of plasmas are pretty good about not getting burn in and image retention. All one needs to remember is to at least lower the brightness settings and try and calibrate it.

If you think 50" is too small, you can always go for the 60" 150FP for about $8K.

Either way, I think I'd go with the 52XBR4 for a flat panel TV this year. Can't wait till CES to see what all is coming out.

BobbyCash

As KFactor said burn in isnt really an issue anymore. Most plasmas come with some sort of way to get rid of it if it does happen. For everyones information just aboutany TV can burn in your: Plasma(obviously most common) LCDs(in your user manual look under Image Retention) and CRTS can aswell. Burn in isnt as big of a problem as it use to be by far.

SinVegas

A brand new plama might be better than a LCD but plasmas tend to degrade over time. I'd be more interested with a comparison of a one to two years old plasma and a LCD that is the same age. The verdict might not be the same.

newname

To the person who said "A $6000 tv is better than a $4500 tv) lets keep in mind that the Non-Elite version has the same panel, and priced right around $4500... and is still better.

havok2022

I'd like to see bigger screens - why did they stop at 70" I know a lot of people who don't want to buy projectors but would love an 80" screen as long as it looks good and is under 10K.

boe

I'd like to see larger screens plasma, LCD, LCOS, OLED, SED whatever it is I'd like to see larger and so would many of my friends. Not all of us have the space or an option for a projector but do have the wall space for a bigger screen. I wonder when we'll see 80" screens that look good for under $10K.

boe

I would have to agree with this article. As a dealer of both LCD and Plasma TVs, the Pioneer Plasma line is very hard to beat. I would also suggest looking at the non-Elite version as the value is much better.

plasmaconcepts.com

The deal with glossy screens vs non-glossy works the same way as glossy vs non-glossy, or matte, finished photographs. Glossy surfaces reflect light from point to point, like a mirror, so if the light source isn't being directly reflected to your eyes off of the screen you pretty much won't see it at all, which allows you to see the underlying surface without any light-pollution.

A non-glossy, or matte finish, surface doesn't reflect light directly but disperses it. The same amount of light is hitting the surface so it still needs somewhere to go. Instead of a bright focused reflection whose direction can be controlled it disperses all of the light that is hitting the screen throughout a large area in wide spread of directions. The end result is all of those nice deep blacks get watered down into a dark grey regardless of what angle you are viewing the screen from.

If your highest priority is contrast then you should lean toward glossy and adjust your light sources and room/window arrangements accordingly.

Subterfuge

I believe this is the Samsung model with the glossy glass front element so reflection is an issue with this particular LCD so that renders this issue moot.

mrz2u