As far as I can tell, this WILL go on until the writers get what they want. there hasn't been a writers' strike in like 20 years, and last time it lasted like 6 months. that's 20 years of union dues backed up for just this sort of occasion. The studios should just give in

burningsensation

i miss Heroes =(

analyticalmind84

I hope this goes on an on until the writers get what they want. I can deal without my programs for a while and I hope this sets an example for any company that treats their most valuable employees like shit. Like almost any Quality Assurance department, assembly line employees, waiters, etc.

This is a country where the hardest working people are paid barely minimum wage and management gets to lean back in their leather chairs and relax.

bdkennedy1

On one hand, I support the writers. Without the creative backbone, there would be no good shows, TV would be a wasteland. If there is no other option than striking to ensure they get fair treatment, then so be it.

However, I look at unions with a bit of disdain, a group of whiners that only have strength in numbers. I look at my life and my pay increases, and it's all been on merit, not pay raises for what I already do, and certainly not resorting to holding my work hostage. I also look at the other people involved, the stange hands, the film crews, all the people that are out of a job right now because the writers are striking. These are people making 4x plus the money I am making - do I really feel bad about them not having "enough" money?

I would have had to buy another tuner for my HTPC for recording Heroes AND 24 at the same time....looks like the writer's stike just saved me some money.

That's my take, I hope it is over soon, that the writers get what they wish, and that TV will continue....oh and that a new crop of reality TV won't pollute the airwaves.

Lizard_King

The studios wouldn't EXIST without writers (don't tell me mafioso type studio types could write anything interesting, and certainly not on a daily basis). The ACTORS wouldn't get FAMOUS without interesting lines. They'd just be models, people with pretty faces.

It's pathetic that it's really the writers who make TV and film POP, and they get the shit end of the industry stick.

I, for one, fully support and back our future overlord writers.

banmojo

@bbfreak: You're exactly right about the purpose of a union.

I think of them as talent agents, to a degree. They are not concerned about how well you can perform a part as much as they are concerned with how much you get paid t perform it because if they can keep you working for a wage you appreciate they keep you happy and they get a percentage of your loot.

Of course they do actually benefit from having all the most skilled people tied up within the union as the skill of the members is as important as their solidarity if it comes down to a strike. The worse someone is at their job the easier they are going to be to replace with a scab.

logruszed

I still think the UK presenter for Deal or No Deal is much better and less creepy looking.

Taime

@Empire: That only works if your valuable enough an employee in the first place. Still, in my experience companies are willing to negotiate than loose a good employee. As for Unions themselves, I'm mixed. Depending on how the union is run they can be a good thing or they could be a bad thing. That being said, don't ever forget that the Union is on there to benefit the workers. Which means they aren't there to insure that the workers are competent or particularly useful workers in the first place. They are there to insure the jobs of the employees, whether they are necessary or filled properly or not.

Take teachers Unions for example, you can be a boozing monkey and still be a teacher. You can have sex with a student, and you can be just bad at your job. None of these would insure that you would be fired immediately. Removed from the school, yes, but fired nay. So I'm not really saying Unions are bad, or Corporations are bad for that matter, but neither are innocent completely of stupidity.

bbfreak

Does anyone think that songwriters would have a legitimate beef with recording companies if they were told they wouldn't get any money from iTunes sales?

I know I sure as hell would.

Kyoseki

@nutbastard: Well YOU could do that, if you were a member of a union. Unions prevent corporations from taking advantage of laborers.

ianmac47

@mpercy: "I think they shouldn't have gone on strike, what happened to doing what you love because you love it?"

You have to be fucking kidding with this. Hey, I really like my job, but I'm not going to sit up until the wee hours teaching some frosh how to write APA papers for free (unless I happen to be boning her).

logruszed

@mpercy:

what happened to doing what you love because you love it?

It went out of fashion about the same time we started having to pay for clothing, food, shelter, transportation, and entertainment. But it is certainly true that owners and management like to raise it as a viable option from time to time (while stuffing their pockets with the "residual" profits.)

I kid, but the point remains - Why should the writers have to work for the love when it means shooting themselves in the foot for someone else's gain. It's not about the writers taking more money from you or just wanting to get paid more money, it's about how much of the total money being taken from you goes to the writers and how much goes to the suits.

If the writers don't get the caaashhh it still exists, it just goes to the ultra-wealthy fat cat instead of the well-off professional (who probably didn't get where they are by doing what you love because you love it.)

92BuickLeSabre

i'm sorry but thats degrading, 250$? im mean yeah everyone should be thankfull for any money they get, but when they make millions off this stuff, they might as well share with the writers, after all without them this is what happens exactly, no shows, which means no money what so ever to make a big deal about so they are kind of shooting themselves in the foot, instead of being a little less greedy.

kush

I agree with it being a percentage of sales (ads,content,merchandise,etc)that lets good writers make good money and bad writers make little money. I know that is not always the case but at least they are a little closer to getting what they deserve.I think they shouldn't have gone on strike, what happened to doing what you love because you love it?

mpercy

@nutbastard:

While I'm not pro-union in a general sense (I was in one that happened to suck), I'm not sure if I grasp your problem with this particular union in this particular case.

I mean it's creative work, there are plenty of examples in and out of the art world of creative people earning from the success of their efforts. If you have a patent you benefit from people using it, if you make a painting you benefit from not only the original (if you sell it) but also from any copies which have been sold, and so on.

As for the whole "try that with your boss...." bit: People do that all the time, as has been pointed out. If you're actually in a skilled profession and are good at our job then you wield such power. Now if you're part of a group of skilled or talented individuals who are willing to support each other then your power increases tremendously, obviously.

Now a couple things you might not understand and which may be causing your resentment of the situation or those involved:

1) The company is free to hire scabs or non-guild members. It's just that a good guild or union tries to have all the best talent as members; and it's not like any schmuck off the street can write a screenplay (even shitty writing by today's standards takes some craft if not talent).

2) It's not like they are getting paid by the employer (a note regarding this as a p.s.). Most unions use dues paid during times of no strike to supplement the lost wages members suffer during a strike. So they are in-effect living off personal savings.

p.s.: Now there are some well publicized cases of striking writers still getting some kind of paycheck. The most notable examples are the staff of: the Tonight Show, The Late Show, Conan O'Brien, The Daily Show. But the studio isn't paying these guys; they are getting paid by Conan, Leno, Letterman, Stewart (all former staff writers for various TV shows and films).

logruszed

I'm confused--one writer gets 80 to 120 THOUSAND DOLLARS when a DVD set sells well? Or all fifteen writers who worked on the DVD set get paid that much to split between them when it sells well?

They get paid some sort of wage or salary on top of that, though, right?

Kered

@nutbastard: If you want to form a union then go ahead. I'm a computer programmer, it would be great if we all unionized so that I could get residuals for the work I do, but unfortunately that hasn't happened yet. Unions aren't a new thing in this country, they help the little guy get decent wages and protections. Most of the state and federal laws that protect you now are because of what unions did. I know I appreciate a Monday - Friday workweek.

reverland

I think if anything this is showing the writers and the public that the studios do think that internet broadcasts will take off. If they aren't going to take off then why be forced to pay the artist any money at all. If a show fails and generates no revenue, then 2.5% of 0 is always going to be 0. Under this plan the studios are being "generous", you know just in case they don't make any money, since that happens all the time.

What a joke, don't insult our intelligence. You're screwing up our TV seasons because you're being greedy. You would rather lose a billion dollars than pay pittance over the course of time that won't even add up to a billion dollars. Let me know how cutting off your nose to spite your face is working out for you while the rest of us look into other forms of entertainment.

reverland

@nutbastard: People do that with their bosses all the time. They say, "Give me a raise or I'll find a company that's willing to pay me what I think I'm worth." They just don't do it as a group as much as they used to.

Empire

@nutbastard:
and, also make sure your boss knows he can't hire anyone else while you're gone.

nutbastard

Are the studios unaware that the "internet" (whatever that ends up being) is going to be the primary distribution channel for basically everything non-physical in the future, or are they just negotiating in bad faith?

Empire

sigh. unions are the only entities whose members can say "we want more money, so we're not working until we get it".

try that with your boss.

nutbastard

It's not just TV writers striking, TV shows are just the first affected. This deal affects movie writers as well, but since the lead time on movies is a lot longer than TV shows, you're not going to see an effect on those until next year.

Kyoseki

What's it like to be a writer writing about the writer's strike and getting paid a flat rate while writing about how much it sucks to get paid a flat rate?

frigg

Cap those ridiculous actor paychecks at 2 millions max, and you've got plenty to pay to the writers. How's about that support for the poor schlobs now, Mr. Clooney?

Hvedhrungr

Apparently the studios think that writers are in fact less evolved than Brown Capuchin monkeys.

In Negotiation parlance, this is known as a failure to recognize the non-monetary intangibles and thereby increasing the risk of intransigence during bargaining.

In Grandparent parlance: you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

In my parlance: Dude, why are you being such a d!(k, I've got better $#!+ to do than deal with this $#!+, like wipe my @$$.

92BuickLeSabre

But seriously, how many TV DVD series make it to 2 million copies sold? If you look at every show that the writer's guild is involved in creating, what is the average DVD sales among all of those? Nowhere near 2 million, I am sure.

That doesn't mean that I am advocating a flat fee - I think a flat fee is stupid and I don't understand why the networks would want a flat fee when so many shows receive such a pittance in terms of DVD sales.

It sounds to me like the studios are trying to mimic record companies where they give 9 out of 10 artists an advance and expect never to recover that advance through those artists, but through that 10th artist that actually makes it big. We've all seen how well the current structure works for musicians...

rbf2000

The amount of pay writer's get for their work is an absolute travesty.

There is tons, and tons, and tons of bad writing on TV shows, but think of all the amazing writing out there...

Many great shows wouldn't be a fraction of what they are without good writers, and the writers go on to get only a fraction of the work in dividends.

twoohfour

I will watch leeched torrent goodness until the writers get their share. They got screwed royally on DVDs and they deserve to not take it up the pooper this time around.

ianken

I agree with their right to strike. A team of top notch writers can make more for a TV series than a team of professional athletes can (wonder how much Friends has and is making, and others in reruns, DVD's).
They are making all the content for the show but they aren't being treated like they are as important as the actors (you know they get residuals). I don't even want to know how much a shows creators makes for just coming up with the idea.
Studios are going to fight tooth and nail to keep writers as paid employees. This strike is gonna go on a long time I predict. It's the old head games of the studio offering crap so they will negotiate and take a slightly less crappy offer.

Hello_Newman

Who needs writers anyway? They're just a quaint holdover from when studios thought people actually cared about content. All you need is a great title, a catchy tagline, and a killer trailer - and it's the ad guys who do all that.

NeoPoliticus

Im 50/50.

A good writer is probably already being paid rather well but I don't like the idea of a corporation making all the money and not sharing it with those creating its product.

But would this change that? If the writers get this does that just screw anyone else working on a show behind the scenes getting a payrise later or mean some shows under development just get canned rather than given a go.

I find it difficult to have smpathy for either side.

hedges1968

Your Deal-or-No-Deal dude is freaky-looking.

Maxwells_Nylon_Hammer

The other thing is, the core of most TV shows *ARE* the writers. Without a writer, what do you have? A reality show, and a poor one at that (since a lot of the stuff has to be "written" as well - the stunts, the challenges, the rules, etc).

An actor that makes say, $50k an episode is dependent on the writer - without the writer's script, said actor has nothing. That's the main crux of the deal. Sure there are more important people as well (director, producer, camera people, props, etc), but one of the pillars is the writer. Without a writer, those people have nothing to do.

Also why no one wants to make the writers cross - they have the power to make a character terrible in the next season if they choose to out of vengeance. (And get yourself blackballed, means terrible characters for the rest of your career unless you move to say, Bollywood).

Worf

ADDENDUM:
Don't overlook the big picture here. Those of you who think all your pay raises are due to merit may want to wake up. You are telling me you've never received a cost of living increase? Most organizations have only implemented a pay raise schedule in order to keep up with Union jobs or other jobs trying to keep competitive. Benefits work much in the same way.

These writers are not holding their employer hostage, they are doing the right thing by simply standing up for fairness. Maybe you would be more forgiving if they could play a professional sport and were paid 100x more? Also, when these brave souls stand up for what is fair it does shed light on the working conditions of those that surround them.

In an environment where it is possible to pay someone a few dollars a day and no benefits, it is immediately done. When a large company pays anything more than minimum wage, do you think it because they want to or because that is the right thing to do?

Mr.bits

I fully support the Writers and their Union.

CEOs have to stop bragging about their sales and web traffic to puff up to their stockholders and then screw their creatives.

It's funny to me that you have "writers" credits even on so-called reality shows.

In the past few years I have seen creative television writing reach it's summit with "Arrested Development". Watching that show mishandled right off the air was a tragedy. I have no respect for any network that lets go of a gem like that.

We have seen the return of below ratings shows like Family Guy, and possibly Futurama. It just shows how out of touch these guys really are.

I don't need to see any more dancing, cooking, dating or otherwise insulting my intelligence with d-list actors or future Road Rules/Real World Arm Wrestling Superstars.

I have your back guys. I hope you'll all join me in canceling your cable/sat until this thing is solved. At least skip the urge to buy some micro format for your beloved 'pod of choice.

It's time for a serious labor movement in this country and NOW. These companies get larger and larger. Some re-form from an Anti-Trust like a liquid metal Terminator. Their focus is profit. If they can get away with something they will. That's natural. What is not natural is for us to let them.

Sad thing is, they think they have us beat. When workers and consumers unite we have the say so. So, lets say so!

With support,
Mr. Bits

Mr.bits

@Worf:

Well, how could anyone not support such an hounourable lot.

I'm not familiar with how they are paid, do they negotiate before joining a show in which case they are getting what they and the show deem themselves worth or do they get some sort of scale?

hedges1968

@Clammy42:
Your response is exactly what I was looking for and exactly what I was getting at, thank you! These writers might be getting cut out of the loop but they still make a shitload of money and are asking for a shitload more. Fuck both sides; they're all greedy.

Kered

@Kered: I believe the current deal gives them pennies per dvd PER writer. So yes, each of them should get that much money (I think), but like someone else commented, how many dvds (of the thousands and thousands out there) sell that many copies. TV shows have the most writers, because they basically have to dole out scripts non stop, usually in multiple alternating teams for a drama (I used to work in the industry as well). But how many shows have you seen sell that many dvds?

Writers also get paid a rate on top of residuals. (unless they write on spec) They are what we call "above the line" or people that have negotiable rates rather than a fixed cost or rate. Basically, they hammer out a contract and can negotiate later. The HUNDREDS of other people working on a show or feature are "Below the line" and can't.

I actually don't support either full out. I think the AMPTP are being really greedy and not offering enough. They OBVIOUSLY know that they are going to make huge sums of money through online distribution.

The WGA, on the other hand, are asking for a few ridiculous things as well. They want residuals from gross, not net, reality show writers want the same residuals as drama writers (that's just stupid), and a few other things.

What pisses me off about both sides is how many below the line people (crew) they are putting out of work. At least the AMPTP is suppose to represent the studios and be a bit stingy. Not a single one of the hundreds of thousands of crew will see an additional penny from this strike. It is a lose/lose situation for them. The WGA will say it's their (crew) fight too because residuals for IATSE (one of the crew version unions) pour into pension funds, but how many families that are now losing homes or can't make rent care about a pension that they may never see anyways. If they have all moved on to new careers because they HAVE TO, they aren't going to see any of that pension money. Anyone in the industry is used to looking for a new job every couple of months, but where do they all go when there isn't anything new to hop on to.

In the end, this is about two greedy sides fighting for who gets rich faster whilst screwing all the little guys.

Truth be told, talent needs to stop sucking so much money out of the budgets with their huge rates and huge percentage profits off GROSS. It's ironic that they march with the writers and support them, of course they do.. they can AFFORD to be out of work for half a year.

P.S. I know that there are many many writers that don't make a fraction of the top level writers but they aren't the ones calling the shots.

P.S.S. And for all my "moral outrage" I will still end up shelling out money to the studios for as long as they can keep me entertained......

Clammy42