@wicka_wicka: I have to agree, my buddy has the new touch, guess what everyone says to him? Hey I see you have the new iphone. I think apple dropped the ball on product differentiation here. Normally there products stand out and are very unique, but the touch and the iphone are almost twins, and ones black.

xxenclavexx

What? Saying a Microsoft product is good in /my/ Gizmodo?

Roflgoat

@wicka_wicka: You're right. If only the Touch had more space it'd be easier to swallow.

Nintenboy01

Microsoft may not have anything comparable to the Touch, but the Touch has to be one of the most half-assed products I've ever seen. People wanted a touch-screen iPod, and instead of making that, they took the phone off the iPhone and called it an iPod. Apple is supposed to be known for innovation, not removing features and calling it new.

wicka_wicka

@Erwos: The iPod classic is poorly-thought out. The interface is plagued with lagginess.

Additionally, the UI that works so well on a 20GB or even 40GB iPod doesn't scale well to 160GB. The hierarchy needs an overhaul. Once compilations and soundtracks are added to a collection, at a certain point, it renders Artist scanning nearly useless because every artist in a compilation gets put into the artist list.

Coverflow is useless because it sorts by artist, not by album, and once again, soundtracks and compilations cause multiple instances.

If anything, the classic shows that Apple either is resting on its laurels or doesn't care much for the Click Wheel-based platform enough to rework the hierarchy. The classic may be the last Click Wheel iPod if the latter is true.

omg-ponies

@Erwos:

The Touch is very nice but not appealing to me. The Zune 30 has them all beat for no other reason than price. Though I'd prefer it be a bit smaller (the 80 seems fine), the price point with the updated firmware specs make it very hard to beat. I'd much rather drop or lose a Zune 30 than a $300 Touch. For the me, the price point of the touch is contrary to the whole notion of portable music.

Abouna

Jason - check your tags. I think you left a door open somewhere

omg-ponies

The flash model seems to be step down in design for my tastes. It looks cheap, mainly because of that big border around the display, which is mighty reminiscent of those Chinese iKnockoffs that have the same design trait. Overall the feature set is promising.

Kaiser-Machead

The most space? Doesn't the iPod Classic have a 160gb variant?

But, yeah, it's a contender. Get the Bluetooth A2DP on there, have marketplace work OTA, and push the software a few notches further, and it'll be an iPod Classic and iPod Nano killer.

They still don't have much of a weapon against the iPod Touch, but you've got to figure that's in the pipeline.

Erwos

It's a stupid move by engadget, rathern than admitting it was an honest mistake or something, he closed down the thread.

How arrogant.

HeavenlySword

the new software is a piece of shit im trying to figure out how to get back to the old software. who in the fuck created this new software they should be fired.

I want to shoot them who in the hell would create some bs software where you cant edit shit
what were they trying to copy, they damn sure aint copy any music software i've seen, itunes, windows media player, yahoo/musicmatch, real all are better

and what the fuck is with the damn pink color who the fuck choose that color. all i have to say is goodbye zune hello ipod

utube2007

man, Apple can suck it right now. The only decent thing apple did when they overhauled the iPod line this time around was update the nano. I like the new nano, it has a great design and is an improvement over the old one.

The classic...well... Fuck, i tried one in best buy and I just couldn't use it for even 5 minutes...the menus are horrible. Laggy. I need my menus to be responsive and quick.

I'm never going to get a zune, but I'm having doubts about the iPods too. I'm just going to have to replace my stolen 30gig 5G with another one of the same. maybe a 5.5G.

The 3G (Have one) and the 5G were probably the best full sized iPods ever released. The mini was probably the best of the small ones. First gen nano...'nuff said.

If apple doesn't pull it together soon they're going to lose major market share.

Rob C

Better than Engadget's review, that was the worst review I have ever read. "The iPod is so much better. FYI, we're totally neutral! This doesn't measure up to the iPod. Nope, no bias here, guys! M$ sucks big hairy donkey balls! Yea, totally neutral is what we are! Hey, where's everyone going?"

DetergentDinners

@billin:

I think Ryan Block over at Engadget used up all the Apple-fanboi in his "review" (note the use of ironic quotation marks") of the new Zune stuff. Then he threw a hissy-fit and locked the thread from further comment after everyone took him to task for his lopsided review.

Cupajo

OH as for stock i talked to a guy at circuit city and they said they sold out right before i called they got a good bit he said but they had quite a number of people show up early this morning for them and they sold out quickly. i called a best buy and a few other shops in my area and all had similar storys, they had stock but sold out.

phantam

buggy? obviously you havent used the 2.0 software, its completely from the ground up rewritten and has no WMP code that's been confirmed by the zune team... hence the complete overhaul and the fact its quite stable since i've been using it.

Yes the 1.0 software was quite buggy but 2.0 works much better and i dont know what your talking about cover art and albums mine are all correct etc, non-legit downloads that tend to be missing their ID3 tags and settings.

Not to be an ass but your movies are over 80gb... thats good mine are over 1tb i'm not exactly expecting a portable player to hold them all you don't sit down and watch 80gb of movies, sync what you need 80gb is quite a lot of space. Ya i'd appreciate microsoft release a Zune120 but im patient.

phantam

@AJcorex: I played with a Zune2 at a Best Buy yesterday. I don't know if they were in stock, but they were at least out on display.

Limekiller

Oh, here we go again! Gizmodo, Jason Chen, Apple fanboys all, Apple is great, Microsoft sux, blah dee blah blah blah...

Wait...

A POSITIVE review of an iPod competitor? *GASP*

Unbelievable. It's as if... as if... Gizmodo ISN'T a bunch of Apple fanboys and they acutally, I don't know... approach their reviews with an open mind!

I'm sorry, but countless comments in other threads led me to believe otherwise. Idiots.

billin

@lastpulse: You have to use the Zune suite. It's essentially a different style of WMP and a buggy one at that.

rususeruru

Just upgraded my Zune30's firmware... it's nice but the software is still buggy as hell. If MS can make WMP function properly when it comes to keeping albums together and maintaining the correct art, why can't the Zune Suite? I'll never know. That's the only real gripe I have.

rususeruru

@baandoptager: Not Apple content, but content of your choosing. Since my movie library exceeds 80GB alone, I can see the appeal.

Kaiser-Machead

Movies? You can't get movies onto a Zune unless you jump through DVD-ripping or Divx-converting hoops. It's ridiculous that Zune Marketplace *still* doesn't offer movies or TV shows. Will we have to wait another year for that?

justrick

@lastpulse: I can't stand iTunes, so I flashed my old 1G Nano to Rockbox so I don't have to install iTunes in Windows.

fuzzycuffs

compared to the 160gb Ipod..... Who the h*** needs 160gb for apple content? Now 80gb Zune content.... or just content. Well. I will take that when my Cowon A2 dies. (if it ever will).

baandoptager

Too bad you can't pick up the Zune 80 anywhere. Only store that had one is a Circuit City a half hours drive from me. And then all of the online stores were backordered or not available or shipping in "2-3 weeks". If it's launch day for your product, you should probably actually have it available for purchase.

I want a Zune 80 :(

zeroprime

Just so everyone knows. (or at least it's like this in our area.) The Zune 2's aren't available at Best Buy, and it's said that they are only currently available online. I got a PRP just aching to be used. :(

Anyone know of a solid store release date?

AJcorex

not again!

lastpulse

I'm thinking about getting an mp3 player around Christmas, I don't have one yet. I currently use iTunes so I'm leaning towards the Ipods. I suppose if you get a Zune you have to use Windows Media Player to sync your files. How does WMP compare to iTunes?

lastpulse

Hi, I'm an iPod... and I'm a PC, sorry a Zune.....

altus

@Roflgoat: Obviously you've never seen past posts where Gizmodo praised the Zune. There were quite a few.

Nintenboy01

Ryan Block is a fool. While that may have been on his mind, you can't be so harsh when there's a strong viral campaign for the Zune. Gizmodo did a better job with their lighter tone because they understand the politics of the situation.

Marty_MacFly

@MINI Driver: No Mac support. The Zune can GFI.

bitfactory

I'm with ErWos, the first one to have bluetooth a2dp support is getting my next digital player $$.

bpatten

@utube2007:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

People like you crack me up.

P.S. You can change the skin on the Zune software.

Aaron Eaton

Also, you have to think that Apple could've easily put the smaller click-wheel from the 3G Nano on the iPod classic and given it a bigger screen. It may have been a little taller than old iPod, but it would still be adding an actual new feature. Hell, you might even be able to say it's better than the Zune 2. But that's the problem with Apple: they got dominant in the PMP arena, and became complacent, like every monopoly or near-monopoly does. The iPod classic is just a small taste of what Apple would do if they ever actually "defeated" Microsoft (god help us all).

Charles

@billin: If you're very, very quiet, you just might hear the banhammer coming down.

But you probably won't. You never hear the hammer that has your name on it.

EBone

@chinhster: I think the only people saying the former just didn't want to spend the $600 on an iPhone, and already had a phone (like most do). Then they dropped the price and the "cheaper iPhone w/out the phone" became useless.

wicka_wicka

I use a Mac - does the Zune 2 work with OS X?

MINI Driver

@utube2007: The lack of editing capability is annoying. I'm guessing their assumption is that these days you're acquiring your music by download from a store or a retail CD rip, and therefore they'll be properly tagged already. Hopefully their software will be updated more often now, and have more functionality to edit metadata.

If you're having trouble coping with the background color, you could go into Settings > Display and choose a new background. There's green, blue, and grey options available as well.

smith186

@wicka_wicka:

iPhone is announced, people yell "Hey, I wanted/want a touchscreen iPod without the phone!"

iPod touch is announced, people yell "Hey, you guys call yourself innovators? That's just an iPhone without the phone!"

chinhster

I cannot believe engadget has the gall to block comments after posting a dumbass "review".. I voted for engadget as the best tech blog.. now I feel stupid :(

slice39

Wow ... Amazon supposedly only has one more Zune 80 in stock. That's pretty impressive.

BigSwirv

@Brian Lam: That was practically not english. I need a nap and a cookie.

Brian Lam

@diabolusunknown: Bias is a part of journalism. Ever read forbes, or any column? It's supposed to be informed opinion, and that post qualified. Bias is what happens when we say one product is better than another. That's a wide misconception. The only thing that is supposed to be not biased is the process of journalism; the fact finding and verification. Once that happens, the opinions are drawn from those facts. (Some pubs more than others.)

Brian Lam

Why do you guys always rush to Engadget's rescue whenever they screw up big? When the enemy is on his knees, you decapitate him and absorb his power in the form of lightning bolts. Haven't you ever seen Highlander?

Marty_MacFly

@slice39: Locking the thread, maybe was going too far, but I would not throw any stones when under attack. (Halo 3, iPhonegate) I appreciate the dialog, Slice. This is what it's about.

Brian Lam

Brian,.. whatever.. lets just agree to disagree and call it quits.. using your own analogy.. "If people in the audience at a public speaking engagement get out of hand and start yelling and saying that the speaker should be fired, usually, security escorts them out".. thats like nuking individual abusive users, which like i said is fine.. locking the thread and then posting on it yourself is like escorting everyone out and speaking to an empty room.. pussies.

slice39

@Brian Lam: But wouldnt you get angry if you have something to say, and just get silenced. At least he didnt get the last word.

If i were him, i would have pulled the entire story, not just shut down the comments. Then he could re-write it without the bias that it clearly had.

And i dont agree one bit with this: "If they want to post their opinions, they should do so on their own blog." Why do we even comment here if thats the mentality of these blogging sites? Why not just pick up an electronics magazine and comment to no one? If there were positive comments, he would shut down nothing. If there were negative comments (and a vast majority of them legitimate, referring to his bias, not his character), he shuts them down.

You can say its his right, you can say its wrong, but what i can tell you is that no one reading engadget wants to hear from him again.

Oh, and its great you did such a simple review. No room for bias. Just leave it up to the user to decide.

diabolusunknown

@slice39: He can, actually. If people are attacking him, he has the right, as editor, and the power, to quell those voices. If they want to post their opinions, they should do so on their own blog.

If people in the audience at a public speaking engagement get out of hand and start yelling and saying that the speaker should be fired, usually, security escorts them out. Same thing.

Brian Lam

@utube2007: dude... you can change the skin and the view chill out.

rususeruru

@phantam: Well the new software decided to change the Artist on my Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers Greatest hits album to Tyler Bates and switch the Album Artwork for the 300 Soundtrack to the Tom Petty & The Heart Breakers Album Art along with switching out various other artists on CDs, so once again I'm stuck spending time re building the library. Yes I'll grant the software is miles ahead of where it was a year ago but to go back and fix things that are not only legitimate rips from CDs that I own but are also arranged in the OS by artist then album is aggravating. I would expect this on the backups I have where individual songs purchased from iTunes or the Zune network have been lumped together burned and ripped now coexisting in the same folder with potentially incorrect tags but for the albums it messed up this is unacceptable.

rususeruru

Brian, Ryan has the right to his incorrect opinion, but that doesnt mean he can block off comments if people want to voice legitimate concerns. I can understand nuking individual abusive users, but locking the entire thread?? What.. does he duct tape his audience in real life while he is talking.. then why do that on the blog.

slice39

@slice39: Whatever, its a high stress job, and it's hard to go full on all the time without making a mistake. I don't think this was a mistake, but for all the hard work both sites do, a lot of readers dont' seem to appreciate that at all. I know how he feels sometimes. Which is why we ban assholes, and keep the good readers around. Disagreeing is fine, and healthy but there's a point when people get abusive. That's why he shut it down.

Brian Lam

@Marty_MacFly: I think that what Ryan did was correct, too, though. If he doesn't like it, its his job to say so. I think it's pretty nice, so that's what we said. Same same.

Brian Lam

simple and straightforward review. thanks!

keyshey

@Brian Lam: Or they taser them. [www.youtube.com]

PuckOTG22

You guys are microsoft fanboys!

willyboy

@MINI Driver: No, and that's a pity, because I a flash-based want one sooo bad!

DW

That was for the wrong thread ... oops.

Not to keep harping on the engadget thing but you have to admit from a reader's standpoint, his actions were very defensive. I'll admit there were very blatant personal attacks but most of the comments were fact based. Its a bit of a double-standard that you as writers control. If there were pages and pages of comments that were praising him about his accuracy of the facts, there is no way he closes that thread down. But as soon as people find an easy way to discredit his statements, then he shuts it down.

He also added fuel to the fire but continuing to comment (and getting more and more defensive) even though he wasn't going to "win". The nice thing about it being the internet is you don't actually have to listen to any of what we are saying if it offends you.

Anyway, kudos to you Brian for withholding any negative judgment until after the launch day. :)

BigSwirv

@BigSwirv: Like I haven't been defensive myself. The nice thing about the internet, is that if you own a blog, you can shut down retarded commenters. (And they can get their own blog to write on and leave the rest of us in peace.)

Have you ever witnessed a digg mob going nuts? I love digg but it is one of the ugliest things ever.

Brian Lam

Not sure how you can say the 30 gig has all the features of the 80gb Zune. I don't think a firmware upgrade magically gives the 30gb Zune, a touch pad.

songs

The new software's pretty slick, but I don't know about the new models, myself.

ChickenOfTheSea

@willyboy: and ur a lil stevejobs fan boy : )

DJJS

my zune software on the PC simply refuse to update.... keeps saying I need to be a administrator .... lol.... but I've been the only person/administrator using this pc... OH, well.... I guess Windows can't even get their own product to work together... I think I'm getting a 160GB iPod for sure.... How I hope this Zune this works well....... better luck next time..... Sign.....

SFDJ

@SFDJ: Riiight. The accounts on your PC are not setup correctly and it's MS' fault? My guess is your parents took admin off your account to keep you off those 'naughty' sites.

You then follow it up with a MS bash and a Apple plug. Nice try. I think I see a bridge nearby.

TKWarrior

@SFDJ: Wow, way to prove you're not some little whinny uneducated brat with witty banter like that.

I'm actually the proud owner of both a 3rd Gen Nano and a 1st Gen Zune. The fiancé also has a 5.5 iPod and Macbook that I use often. So how bout taking your own advise on the "shut your hole if you don't know what you're talking about" line?

In any event, you take it upon yourself to post the same exact comment on multiple Zune related articles, in which you put down a DMP because you can't figure out a simple id10t rights issue. Did I call you a fanboy? No, I read your previous posts to see, but you obviously didn't do the same. I called you a troll, and the definition still fits.

Go to Geek Squad if you can't figure it out and STFU already.

TKWarrior

@TKWarrior:
Hello?! I had just bought 2 30GB Zune 2 weeks ago and are currently using them with the software that comes with it, and it's been fine.... but it simply won't update anymore since the initial set up update which went smoothly....

I fail to see where my fault is when all the other program updates perfectly, and only Zune complains?! In the mean time my old trusted iPods which are made by Apple has never given me a problem on the same PCs what so ever......
....you really should shut your hole if you don't know what your talking about........ are you one of those pissy queens who turn a red face whenever they hear the word iPod?!... Give Me A Break.....

SFDJ

While movies are large (>1TB for all data on the DVD), why would you take the same resolution and languages and put it on your portable player? I resize and change settings to play movies on my Treo 650 using...mplayer (gasp...).

The whole final movie of the Lord of The Rings trilogy takes up 1.2 GB (fits nicely on a 2GB SD card. Oh right, no card slots on those players.... :)

You can get a complete movie down to about 250MB without much loss of quality for a portable (i.e., smaller) screen.

Get what works for you and stop worrying about what "everyone else" is using. Who really cares?

Manos_Lijeros

I don't know if the Zune 2 is worth a damn, but for less than $100 with new software/firmware I can give definitely say the old Zune 1s are a steal.

Ron-Mexico

I have the old 30gb model, and updated it last night without problem. I'm especially pleased with the wireless sync capability...I was shocked that it would actually work with WEP on my wireless network! The sync is slower compared to the cable obviously, but it was nice to download new songs and playlists on my pc, and then later just hit "sync" on the zune and not have to worry about hooking up the cable etc.

I'm also impressed with how much snappier it feels when switching between menus, and especially when switching songs through shuffle. It used to seem stuck and sluggish before, but now changes without problems.

The only thing i do not like is I cant change the font of the menu's. Its all super large print like I'm some senior citizen or something.

SmileyBry