@johnnyrandom: "you MUST state very clearly in your contract that you are NOT to be picked up at the airport by some cracked out raver who is borrowing his mom's car"
LOL, I once had a GROUP of (what I call) "pooky ravers" pacifiers and all, pick me up at La Guardia in a station wagon. Longest car ride in my life.

kahri

@johnnyrandom: the ninja tune artist you saw in the 90's was ColdCut and I believe the tour/album was called "play". That whole video was produced alongside the tracks.
As for the "impossibility" of cutting video along with audio, that's just ridiculous. That's what people said about turntablists using cuts to make a new track. If you think the human mind can't handle it just take a look at some xmen/invisible skratch picklez/scratch perverts etc..
I personally prefer old school vinyl on 1200s. And BTW do they expect DJs now to buy the album AND the DVD?

kahri

@Keebler:

I bring my own mixer and needles to any gig. I never use CDs, but have used a MacBook Pro sometimes. If you really want a smooth gig though, you MUST state very clearly in your contract that you are NOT to be picked up at the airport by some cracked out raver who is borrowing his mom's car. Oh, and half up front!

johnnyrandom

@Keebler: Read the above comment.

johnnyrandom

@flufftronix: Also: The Vestax unit I'm talking about isn't a "CDJ"....it's a MIDI controller.

johnnyrandom

@johnnyrandom:

He wasn't saying they're the industry standard for *mixers*, he was saying they're the industry standard for CD turntables (which is definitely true). That being said, a case could be made that the Pioneer DJM-500/600 is the industry standard mixer as well. It was for a while, but these days Rane or Allen & Heath are usually acceptable alternatives for big budget djs as well.

Check out any DJs contract and you'll find it. I actually have one printed out that I'm faxing back to a booking agency:
The Promoter agrees to provide and pay for the following:
2 x Technics SL1200 turntables
1 x Professional high end mixer with 3 band EQ (Rane, Pioneer, Allen & Heath)
2 x Prioneer CDJ 800/1000 CD players

Keebler

@flufftronix: Pioneer mixers are definitely NOT the industry standard for scratching. I'll bet you money on that. Pioneer is the industry standard for other types of djing though....house, d'n'b, etc.

The only thing Serato makes that I use it Pitch 'n' Time as a plugin. I haven't dug anything else by them.

M-Audio can go "Torq" themselves. They make absurd products with bad support and worse audio quality.

I've always thought Ms. Pinky's stuff was geared towards "IDM" types who make music that sounds like a broken washing machine full of ping pong balls. Not impressed with that either. Plus, you still need turntables, etc.

Anyway, that Vestax mixer I mentioned is getting delivered to my studio in the next few days. I'll let you know what I think of it when it's here...till then, the jury is out!

johnnyrandom

@flufftronix: Fluffy - glad to know you're a reader! Sorry I didn't get to see you play much when you were in town ... coming back any time soon?

BENNY THE INTERN

@Johnnyrandom: Pioneer CDJ's are still very much the industry standard, even moreso in Europe than the US.. go into almost any nightclub with a DJ and you'll find those, a Serato setup, or both. As for that Vestax thing, it's kinda cool but I don't think anyone looking to scratch digital files is going to pick that over Serato/Torq/Ms. Pinky/etc.

flufftronix

@timerider42: Joy, now when I am at a club all I have to do is stare at the dj...fun...yea this is completely unnecessary...

youknowit

This guys has nothing on Mike Realm.

Captain Angry

I swear I saw some Ninja Tune guys do this way better back in '99. I don't think they were scratching the video, but it sure as hell was synced to the records they were spinning. I wouldn't really call what this guy is doing as in the scratching vein though. He's doing some cutting, but it's not like he's whipping out the crabs and flares...though I would think that would make the video a stuttering mess. Also...Pioneer? I don't know anyone who scratches on those. Vestax seems to have cornered the market on that. They even have a pretty decent digital mixer that allows you to scratch any sound you have without records (skip to the last minute or so):

[www.youtube.com]

This guy was using a older powerbook, but if you have a faster computer set up correctly, there's no lag. It's a pretty cool interface if you grew up scratching vinyl old school style.

johnnyrandom

That was pretty bad....

Y2KGTP

The video aspect gives people something to look at.

timerider42

cool hardware but the dj was lame

king_of_fools

@toyotaboy: This one, for those playing along at home. I have not watched it, our work firewall is blocking youtube, and I haven't had time to tunnel around it. Yet.

[cgi.fark.com]

DirkusMaximus

@flufftronix:

I completely agree.

Pioneer missed the boat with this mixer, it should have come out back when their DVD players came out. Serato's video option will be much more economical.

I agree the demo was pretty lame with its material but it's always been like that with the Pioneer demo team.

As far as visuals go I think it should be left to someone else not the DJ. Look at the stuff Brash! is doing with their box and software. It's so far ahead in the video world.

DaddysFavourite

online price for this system starts at $3.5k (for one turntable), start adding additional channels and it gets expensive. This guy also did a nice video mix of office space "oh", look it up on fark.com

toyotaboy

@fusedinertia: "...too complicated and no fun..."

A few years ago, I'm sure the same was said for some of the mixing and scratching that can be done by skilled performers today.

Also, simply because no one else has said it yet, THIS IS SPARTAAAAA!!!

DirkusMaximus

No offense to DJs, but as a video editor working almost exclusively in music videos, I'm not really wowed by what I saw on the screen. It has nothing to do with his skill, he's obviously amazing. But that's not the road to watchable viewing, as far as I can tell.

For real impact, it takes more brain power than one person can do in realtime, while worrying about audio as well. Just watching video follow audio in a scratch situation is boring.

direktor

@NNTPGRIP: Check out System D-128's videos.. sounds like exactly what you're talking about

flufftronix

@Keebler + Benny: Ya, it's me. Hi!

flufftronix

This could be cool. This demo just sucks (using Lenny Kravitz' cover of American Woman...stupid)

Using real obscure video NOT from the last 20 or so years or more or original video and give that to someone like DJ Shadow, Qbert, or RJD2. Marinate, Bake, Serve on a platter with collard greens.

If anything it could be an interesting interface for editing video if no one used it for live performances.

NNTPgrip

AWWW SHEEEEIIIITTTT. Now I can mix up my Linkin Park/Naruto AMV mashups at RECORD SPEED. Because if the world needs one thing, it's more of this.

Pope John Peeps II

Tommy Lee?! WTF?! A big name at the trailer park maybe...DJ seems awfully busy trying to mix music and video....not fun...actually here where I live there is a huge video bar inside a club, I see where this would come into use, but still too complicated and no fun..

fusedinertia

this is the future, whats with all the nea-sayers?!

i want a DJ to mix music, video, drinks, and gogo girls for me, whats wrong with that?

How much hard drive space does this thing require?

desimal

@flufftronix: @Keebler: Yeah, fluffy, is this you?

BENNY THE INTERN

@flufftronix:

Hmmm, didn't know Serato was working on that. Sweet.

btw, is this "the" flufftronix?

Keebler

@chai714:
You're right, VJing like this is more of a performance thing than it really is a "in the club" thing. Or for DJs in hip hop groups to use.

It has its place, but it's definitely a much more limited use-case than standard DJing.

@BENNY THE INTERN:
Interesting... my guess is that this other post involves Tommy Lee (or another company) using his celebrity status to promote the DJ career he's trying to start up (which is solely based on his celebrity status).

Keebler

The video app for Serato is going to make this what, $9000 rig obsolete real soon..

flufftronix

People at clubs aren't into videos, they're into music. Drunk people won't really care about video mixing. Music, yes. Video, I doubt it..

chai714

Lots of shiny buttons...

Seriously though you could splice in a section of 300 into just about anything and I would be hooked.

PCLoadLetter

This is clearly an exercise in making video editing way more complicated then it ever should be. I know it's not exactly video editing but if you step back and think how else could I produce such a spectacular A/V show you will realize that it could be a lot simpler than what was displayed in this here video. Interesting idea though.

TheAstronot

I like to take notes while I toke the marijuana smoke, too. Heh. What a coinky dink.

djtooshay

I use a Pioneer DJM-800 with CDJ-1000Mk3's and i just want to say DJing is hard enough without mixxing in video. All the big name DJ's that come to clubs in LA have a whole TEAM of geeks that run graphics on big screens in sync with the music. ONE man DJing AND Scratching VIDEO at the same time is IMPOSSIBLE. im a die hard pioneer fan, but i dont think this will sell very well at all.

MacAddict21

@Keebler: Oh, just wait for later today -- I didn't mention his name by accident.

BENNY THE INTERN

"big names in electronic music like... Tommy Lee."

HA!

Keebler

I think the description of "mixes audio & video to awesome effect" is quite an overstatement. I watched all of about 30 seconds before both my eyes and ears began to bleed. Does anyone actually care about this crap?

golferal

@johnnyrandom: Hey, I should've specified. The "impossible" comment was made earlier by MACADDICT21: "ONE man DJing AND Scratching VIDEO at the same time is IMPOSSIBLE".
Must agree with you about the scratching w/ linear video, crabs would end up just looking like strobe lights. It just wouldn't make sense. Tight cuts of audio(like crabs) can be musical, where tight cuts of video is just seizure inducing.
And BTW, pooky ravers are good for one thing: they're more than willing to carry our record cases.
PS. Kid Koala's first mixtape FTW

kahri

@rainmkr: No. People are poopooing video because it's stupid and trite, and largely useless, as the video seems to not have anything to do with the song and mixing the two produces nothing of interest.

See @direktor: comment above.

Pope John Peeps II

@kahri: Thanks, I think it was Cold Cut. It was a sick show. As far as "impossible"...I'm not sure what you're referring to. I never said anything on this thread was impossible. I was just imagining what some scratch techniques would do to linear video...even with perfect tracking, I imagine it might be a little blurry if I threw in a few 64th note crabs. Without a doubt, my favorites are def. Kid Koala and Q-Bert with Cut Chemist/DJ Shadow right behind 'em. Stay away from those "pooky ravers"...they'll drown you in a puddle of PLUR.

johnnyrandom

VJ'ing does very well in most major cities here in the US. I've been doing it for over 7 years here in Tampa, FL and do very well for myself. This beast of a mixer Pioneer has release will land in just about major club around the country (being the big LA/Vegas/Miami/Chicago/NYC clubs).. For me, as much as I love VJ'ing with my Pioneer DVJ-X1s the price is pure overkill at this stage. It would be nice to have an all in one unit but it's far cheaper to go the stand alone audio/video mixers route right now.

People who are poopooing video are just closed minded!

rainmkr

Yeah, so it's been pointed out already, but Coldcut has been doing this for nearly a decade now. I remember when I interviewed them back in '97 or so when they talked to me about the possibilities of video scratching. Then I saw them live in NY in '99 or so at Roxy and I was blown away. It's some dope shit. Just search for "Coldcut" on Youtube and you'll find tons of video of their performances.

Here's one for ya StarWars nerds:
[www.youtube.com]

They designed their own hardware and software in the early days to do this shit. So basically, technology (and other DJs) have finally caught up with Coldcut after 10 years. Such visionaries.

Now, I must add, Coldcut are awesome music creators and visionaries (they run Ninja Tune), but they are NOT the best scratch DJs out there... think the caliber of Qbert, Invisible Skratch Piklz, Mix Master Mike, etc... now what could people like THAT do with this technology/concept?

I think it's awesome.

Dearhaw

@BENNY THE INTERN: Ya I've been reading Gizmodo for years :) I'll be back up in mid-December I think, assuming you're in NY.. if you're out West I'll be out there soon too (late December/early Jan)

@johnnyrandom: I know the difference between a MIDI controller and a CDJ. Good luck "scratching" with that MIDI controller, by the way! (I'm sure the DMC champs I know would agree that any scratching interface which doesn't involve vinyl is inferior and novelty at best) As for the industry comment, I was talking about club DJ'ing as an industry, not scratch DJ'ing.

@Everyone: The most odd thing about this video is really that it's not targeted at people trying to do short scratch routines, it's for big clubs (because as Rainmakr pointed out, they're the ones with these mixers in their budget) where people play music all night long. The demo style they picked seems to show what the mixer is capable of, not necessarily its choice application. The majority of people using these will just use it to segue between one music video and the next, with a little blending in between. There's not too much to wrap your head around, at least not much more than a normal DJ would have to deal with.

flufftronix

@kahri: That Kid Koala mix you mentioned...the first mix tape? I have it on a "promo only" 10 inch. My fav. is the Charlie Brown "I gotta rock" cut. Pretty nice stuff.

@flufftronix: Dude, seriously...if I want to scratch records, I use my turntables. If I want to scratch sounds I've recorded? That's another thing all together. That is why I'm trying out the Vestax unit. I have djed with plenty of DMC champs...so don't feed me that line of crap. I don't give a flying @#$% what interface is used...as long as it gets the job done. I'm not going to refuse to adapt or limit myself for vinyl's sake. Have you even tried the Vestax unit I'm describing? If not, don't diss something unless you've tried it. I'm not going to diss it unless it sucks after I try it out. I've seen plenty of video clips of people using it quite well, even on a first try, so I'll stay optimistic.

johnnyrandom

I soo want!!!!

UNDERSTAR

He's got nuthin' on Flosstradamus

rfaulder

the only people that care about graphics at clubs are the ones that are trippin out on E and K. people who are there actually for the music could give 2 fucks whats playing on the screen behind the DJ.

ask yourself, do you need to see a music video to enjoy a song you love?

MacAddict21

Wow - there's a lot of hate being thrown in here by people who have no clue about electronics or DJing.

Roonie's set wasn't the best I've seen from him (and I've seen him play at least 40 or 50 times) but the technology Pioneer has brought to the market is revolutionary and will certainly change the way DJs/VJs operate. For those who don't think people "watch videos" at the club, it's not just about standing there and watching the screens - it's a total immersion experience.

CapitalC

@ johnnyrandom: Hate to break it to you, but the "digital mixer" that you are speaking of is a vestax VCI-100 Midi Controller. It was designer for used with Traktor.

Fonzietron

@johnnyrandom: "They even have a pretty decent digital mixer that allows you to scratch any sound you have without records (skip to the last minute or so):"

That's no "digital mixer" it is a midi controller.

Fonzietron

@Fonzietron:

Did you read any of my other posts on this thread? I already said it was a MIDI controller. If you want to get into specifics, it still classifies as a digital mixer as well: It is a USB connected digital device controlling volume and panning, so it is both...even if it is extremely simple in that respect. Here's the classic definition:

Mixer: • (esp. in sound recording) combine (two or more signals or soundtracks) into one.

From what I've read, you don't have to use Traktor either. You can use it in Logic 8, or any other sequencer that you want to assign MIDI function to.

I think it's quite obvious that my goal is not to use the Vestax unit to do full-on mixdowns I'll use this for that:

[www.mackie.com]

Seriously, I have a B.A. in Music Synthesis, so I'm not talking out my ass. Unfortunately, this thread has a abundance of DJ's who think they are expert bedroom studio engineers. The interactions I've had are pretty much like this:

-Defending a device till I've tried it.
-Others smugly dissing it without having tried it.
-Others claiming, implying or comparing it to something that it isn't (CDJ mixer)
-Me stating the obvious (Vestax dominating the scratch mixer market)

It's all in the thread above. Honestly, there's nothing more annoying than people who spout off about gear they've never tried and don't know shit about. I'm not annoyed with you though, just so you know. :)

johnnyrandom

(Roonie said it took three months to prepare this 15-minute set, and he's been DJing for 25 years)

Which means it will take some precocious 10 year-old about a week.

And I think there might actually be an emerging market for this device, considering there are already quite a few DVD scratch videos on YouTube. Like this one.

deusdiabolus

@flufftronix: Btw...not that you will probably check back in on this thread, but if you do: The Vestax VCI-100 is really quite amazing. I got it yesterday and it's quite addictive. I recorded some scratching and sent it to some fellow DJ's and they couldn't believe it wasn't vinyl. They were like, "Where did you get that record you were scratching?" It was a recording of my cat. :)

johnnyabnormal

@flufftronix:

Regarding: "Good luck "scratching" with that MIDI controller"

For the record (no pun intended):

[www.johnnyrandom.com]

Here's the VCI-100 in action. The sound being scratched is my cat when he was really pissed off. Not bad for a MIDI controller. Please excuse the distorted audio and low frame rate: I recorded the video real fast using quicktime and the built-in camera on my MacBook Pro.

johnnyabnormal