There is no difference in the image quality of an HD or BR disk. They're just containers for data. Who's getting all fuzzy-wuzzy over one format over another?

AdmNaismith

@MarkHawk: I assume that ur an HD DVD fan. Don't go around spreading your bullshit. Both formats are priced pretty much the same. Hell, I've found a lot more Blue ray Dvds for cheaper. Who cares about the format already. Just pick a side and enjoy your movies! Lets face it, both formats will eventually join forces and dual format players will be the future.

JD3M

I'd like a response from someone who isn't absurdly biased and on the Blu-Ray payroll. If I wanted the information you provided, I would have went to the Blu-Ray site. I bet you're just a walking billboard. If your long post was supposed to inform me that you are well educated on the subject, you're wrong. All it did was prove how much of a fanboy you really are. Thanks for not answering my question and providing me with statistics every other "format war" article includes.

I don't know if my previous comment seemed biased on one format over the other but it wasn't my intention as I own players from both formats and so really don't care who wins and who loses. If those are the reasons you believe Blu-Ray was chosen over HD DVD then so be it, you just sound like any of those hardcore Blu-Ray fanboys who want HD DVD to crash and burn for no reason other than having a Sony BDP-S1 that they spent a grand on when it came out or a PS3 they need to justify.

By the way, here is the link for where I got my video information from [gizmodo.com]

It was done in February so it may be outdated and if that is the case then I call upon the Giz to call upon High-Def Digest or someone else to perform a new comparison.

aurf

As for the record - Paramount carefully worded it. Transformers did set a one-day record. But for the one-week record it sold more than any title on Blu-ray OR HD DVD - but not more than any title. 300, which was released on both formats, sold more *combined* (250,000 IIRC) in its first week than Transformers sold.

Transformers very likely would've beat 300 by a wide margin had they not dropped Blu-ray. Dual-format releases still tend to sell 2:1 in favor of Blu-ray - Paramount likely couldn't shifted upwards of 500,000 discs as a dual-format release.

Their loss.

MegaZone

@aurf: Studios like BD because:
1. It has more space. I don't know where you got that bit about video - but Blu-ray uses the exact same codecs as HD DVD and actually allows for a significantly *higher* video bitrate.

2. Speaking of bitrate - Blu-ray provides a higher total bitrate, as well as higher video and audio bitrates. That allows for higher quality over all.

3. DRM. Like it or not, the studios do like DRM - and Blu-ray offers BD+ and ROM Mark, in addition to AACS which it shares with HD DVD.

4. Advanced features. Blu-ray uses BD-J for interactivity, which provides for a lot more advanced features than HDi as used on HD DVD. Admittedly it is also more complex to develop for, which is why there has been a slow start. But the dev tools are getting better and we're starting to see more BD titles using BD-J for advanced bonus content.

5. While HD DVD has more standalone players, it has been on the market longer. Blu-ray is gaining on HD DVD in standalone player sales as prices drop. And the PS3 is a major factor, as a lot of people (including myself) purchased PS3s *primarily* as BD players. Some of us have purchased a number of BD movies - I have, or have on order, over 30 so far, and plan to buy more before the end of the year.

6. Blu-ray is controlled by a consortium and there are more major players so control isn't in one vendor's hands. HD DVD is effectively controlled by Toshiba, the DVD Forum rubber stamps their specs. The studios have more of a role in the BDA.

7. The future. BD shows a lot of potential for evolution. It is a new technology with a long future. HD DVD is the last gasp of DVD, being pushed to the limits. Just trying to get their 45/51GB disc finalized has been a chore. BD is already looking at 100GB, 200GB, and beyond. Which may not matter as much for Hollywood today - but it may in time. There is a move toward 3D films again, and 3D home viewing systems. All of those systems will have more data to generated the 3D image.

8. Data. The PC industry has also embraced BD due to the higher data capacity and availability of drives. It is much easier to get a BD drive than an HD DVD drive in a PC. This additional format support will help drive down costs and increase production.

HD DVD players being 'more standardized' is really a red herring. So far Toshiba is the only significant player in HD DVD, so all of their players are based on the same implementation. The Xbox add-on was developed with them too. Blu-ray has a very clear stair-step standards system. 1.0 to 1.1 and 2.0/Live. Each later step in the standard is backwards compatible. So a 1.1 disc will work just fine on a 1.0 player, it just won't be able to access some bonus content. And 2.0 adds online content. But DVD had changes like this do - the addition of DTS for example - and it didn't cause major problems.

MegaZone

@Worf: That's not true. Existing players will continue to work just fine as they always have. Players without a second video decoder will not be able to access Profile 1.1 content, which just means they may not be able to access some bonus content - that's all. It has no impact on the movie itself and not even on most bonus content.

So drop the 'wildly obsolete' FUD crap.

MegaZone

@AlexLand: Bay is hardly the only one - Spielberg is on record as not allowing his films to be released on HD DVD, but backing Blu-ray, for example. Other directors have chimed in on the format war.

MegaZone

Problem is, everyone without a PS3 as a blu-ray player is screwed.

Because all blu-ray players that do not have Ethernet and persistent storage as of the end of this month will be wildly obsolete and unable to play newere blu-ray discs properly.

(Basically, these players never implemented the optional part of the blu-ray spec that becomes mandatory at the end of October). Sucks to be an early adopter...

PS3s are spared because they have all the necessary equipment to comply with the new spec.

Ironically, it was probably HD-DVD that pushed this requirement onto Blu-Ray (given how lackluster early Blu-Ray discs were). Especially in the extras and stuff.

Blu-Ray has a chance to win... and you still can try to get Transformers in Blu-Ray - remember, you gotta buy it overseas. Oh wait, Blu-Ray has region coding, too...

Worf

Can we look into Bay getting paid off by Sony? Past deals with them, etc? I don't care about the format war whatsoever, it's just random that there's one director in all of hollywood that's been outspoken one way or the other.

AlexLand

I don't think the EU has published their findings yet if they ever found anything.

Maybe someone can tell me why, as the EU has wondered, do more of the big studios support Blu-Ray over HD DVD.

- Not counting the PS3 and the 360 add on there are more HD DVD players.
- HD DVD players are more affordable.
- HD DVD players are more standardized.
- According to a Gizmodo article HD DVD has better video and special features than Blu-Ray and Blu-Ray has better sound.

The only thing I can think of is that the studios are counting the PS3 and they see it as a huge factor.

Well I can think of something else, lots of money being passed around like HD DVD gave to Paramount and DreamWorks for promotional consideration or whatever they called it.

aurf

@Talkstr8t: That's nice except hd-dvd has sold more players hands down. With the obvious exception of the PS3 and I have one I don't buy any movies for.

fastm3driver

And what do we get when we trust Michael Bay's critical eye?

Watch out, Blu-ray.

concrete_d

could you imagine if it sold blu ray...good god the numbers would be through the roof. Hell I just might even buy the DVD then.

knappoleon

@agrajag42: I just got kicked out of Best Buy trying to get the other 2 free hd dvd movies! can i get a copy of your receipt to prove them wrong?

Earthslide

Agrajag42, you get what you pay for. The HD DVD camp is giving away their hardware and software because they don't have the industry support to sell product based on its merits. Even with Blu-ray player prices 50% or more higher than HD DVD they have generally been selling more players.

Aurf, you see way more Blu-ray at Best Buy because a format supported by virtually every major CE vendor and most of Hollywood is going to be far more visible than a format supported only by Toshiba and Microsoft (with a few others hedging their bets via dual-format).

Talkstr8t

Know what's funny?

"UPDATE: Whether Bay likes it or not, his Transformers HD DVD just set an HD movie-disc record, selling 190,000 in one week."

If it came out on BD I bet it would've beat that 190k hands down. (PS3 and BD sales for that dvd)
So there.

kayne001

@Wilson Rothman: Now Grimlock mad. Grimlock take anger management course from Hulk. Hulk say Grimlock smash!

In retrospect, maybe Grimlock seek therapy from licensed professional instead of little green man with anger issues of own. This same problem Grimlock have when Grimlock take speech class from Bizarro.

Grimlock exercise poor judgment too often. Grimlock think that judgment problems are at root of anger. Grimlock needs address that before Grimlock can fully achieve own full potential.

Grimlock thank Wilson Rothman. Grimlock have good insight and not have to pay therapist lot of money. Grimlock has injured soul.

omg-ponies

@DeadPlasmaCell: exactly and nobody wins a stalemate.

kahri

@aurf:

as far as i know best buy isn't officially behind either side.

locally the BB has 1 HD dvd displayed and 3 blu ray players runnning. I think its more than sony and samsung both pay for their products to get featured end caps. toshibia is paying for the endcap on the HD DVD display.

endless

@pathogen:

Robot Jocks? Like, crotches? I think you read it wrong when I said Robot-on-Robot ass kicking... not ass pouding.

decerbo

MB's got a point. Why would a consumer have more than one different format for HD video disks.. BD has and will probably always have more capacity so why invest in HD DVD? The future of home HD is probably through some kind of computer+storage, with some kind of optical backup. In that case BD makes more sense than HD-DVD, and those smart ones who will start buying these drives will only have download as an option to get the HD movies... but will they pay what they couldn't buy?

Z

@kahri:

Pretty much, and really unless the HD-DVD camp completely goes tits up for some reason (Can't see why they have the lower price, and gaining in studio support) then I can't see this "format" war being more than a stalemate. Sony has invested too much money in Blu-Ray just to give it up if it (format war) decides to go HD-DVDs way.

DeadPlasmaCell

You fanboys are so stuck in the 80's! I grew up watching the show during the 80's and I like the improvements done to the G1 characters in the movie. Maybe you should buy or rent the movie and watch the special features so you can get a better understanding of why the characters ended up the way they did. The movie would have been a joke had Bumblebee ended up being a VW Bug.

Earthslide

This format war is ass-backwards. Usually the consumers win out because of that whole capitalism thing. That won't work as easily now because by siding with film studios, they've turned a format war into a studio war. We don't want to chose our media format based on what movies are available for that format. Unless you buy both (or combo), you're options are going to be limited. So consumers will end up just waiting: either for a winner, or an HD burner on their PCs to record HD programing.

kahri

@fastm3driver:
Some of us have invested in Dolby True HD. I have an STR-DA5300ES. It's true, there aren't alot of titles out there that use true HD, but I'm blown away by the sound quality it provides for HD Radio and the sample disc I got. I love your outlook on downloading, though. I've just been disappointed so often by Hollywood putting limits on my media that it seems like it'll never happen the way we want it. I'm just tired of compromises. Cell phones with 2MP cameras (TO THIS DAY) when there are +5MP cmos sensors out there, a lack of flash (geez, I just love a sharp camera that's useless in the dark, don't you?) when there have been xenon flashes in phones for a while now. Then there's downloading the actual movies. When are we going to see another big jump in internet speeds? 50x faster than dial-up was great. When are we going to see 50X faster than DSL? IPTV is going to be the future. I dream of being able to download what I want, when I want it. If it rains (ahem, DIRECTV), I could just get it later (in IPTV's case, your internet goes down). And cable goes out constantly for reasons obvious and not so. They just keep making half-assed solutions we're not totally happy with in the end, skimping on quality, content, and features where they see fit. BAH, The Man sux.

chuchi78

@bobman1235: I sort of see your point. But consider this. You are downloading just the movie and none of the other crap. On xbox these are like 4-5Gb and looks great even compared to the hd formats. And I have a new 1080p56" TV as wells as 3 720p and a older 1080i 52" so I'm pretty critical of quality. Also, there is cable on-demand that offers tons of movies in HD. I've used netflix. blockbuster, and gamesNflix and have canceled them all because I'm fine with downloading even with both players.
I think owning movies is something of a fools game unless they are ones you will watch over and over(read: not many) Most people I know that buy movies watch them once and are annoyed but all the space they take up.
The other killer app would be a system where you bring a hard drive to BB or blockbuster and copy a movie to it, then bring it home with no returning or late fees. They just need to make a cheap player with a removable drive and some ability for expansion. you could DRM it all you want as it could be a closed system; but every one would have to participate. The studios, the retailers and the hardware dudes. You could get the movies with a 8GB flash($50) or 80GB 2.5" drive($80) and bring it home to a player with 500GB drive for $200-$250. This would make everybody happy.

fastm3driver

@decerbo: You've obviously never seen robot jocks.

pathogen

Is Best Buy a Blu-ray supporter or on Blu-ray group's payroll or anything like that? I've been to 4 Best Buys across the entire state of Florida (Miami to Tallahassee) and all 4 of them had between 3-5 Blu-ray setups with surround sound, the works and in prominent locations. But they put the HD DVD set up in the back, out of the way from traffic.

Or is it because companies pay Best Buy and other retailers for floor space and prime locations and HD DVD is putting crap money in to it? Because if thats the case then they need to start focusing on that a little bit, it's probably not the biggest factor in this war but it would help I'm sure.

(posted this before here [gizmodo.com] but I was a commenter in tryout and by the time it saw the light of day everyone moved on)

aurf

@Wilson Rothman: Man, you're stingy on the prizes.

SchruteBuck

I gave him my money for the HD-DVD version in support of his movie. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

y2julio

@fastm3driver: The whole "we'll be downloading everything soon" thing is absolute nonsense. HD-DVDs have somewhere between 10 and 30 gigs of information a piece. While a lot of people have broadband, most carriers (*cough*COMCAST*cough*) punish users who use anywhere near that kind of bandwidth. It's going to be a while before the majority of people are able to download Gigs per day on their home connection.

bobman1235

I'm really not sure why they don't just release blu-ray, is it really worth loosing all those sales to blu-ray owners? it's not like i'm going to buy an HD player just for transformers... and there are so many titles that work on both.

ruggels

@agrajag42: one sweet deal.
Also I own both systems and prefer hd-dvd as I like the way it works easier and it boots faster.
Blu-ray's only advantage is size and it makes no difference in movies. On the PC side I don't think the size matters either. By the time the disk prices come down you will just move everything around and back up to servers or portable hard drives.
Plus the first time I had to update my system because a blu-ray movie wouldn't play I almost threw up. extra blu-ray DRM=bite me

fastm3driver

@chuchi78: What equipment uses Dolby HD? By the time this is available both formats will have lost and I will download everything.
Currently the the xbox 360 is the best delivery method. If they could just make a thing where you can transfer the content to a portable player it would win. The only problem then would be getting movies from Sony.

fastm3driver

After the deal I got at Best Buy this week, I'm sticking with HD DVD. They had the XBox HD DVD player on sale for $179 with Heroes Season 1 for free. On another page, they were listing the typical 5 free HD DVDs mail-in rebate, but with an additional 2 free HD DVDs in store for free. So for $179, I got:

XBox HD DVD (King Kong included)
Heroes Season One HD DVD
Transformers HD DVD (Sorry Bay, but I'm sure you don't mind the check)
300 HD DVD
5 free (pending) mail in HD DVDs

Sweet!

agrajag42

@chuchi78: I agree, it sucks that the movie didn't have TrueHD for an audio option, but the DD+ still sounds pretty good (in fact it received a perfect rating from hidefdigest.com. Although, I'm guessing that the lack of the lossless audio is what got Michael bay all hot and bothered.

rbf2000

@Type-E: yes he did fill it up and as a result there is no uncompressed high def audio track which is why he is bitching.

demonwolf

@SchruteBuck: No-Prize to you for saying what we were all thinking when we read that quote.

@omg-ponies: No-Prize to you for calling me on Optimus. It was a deliberate TF loyalty test (and a subtle attempt to try and piss off Transformer Fan #1, Mr. Brian Lam).

@jrog: No-Prize to you for referencing one of the finest SP scenes in recent memory. Try as I might, I couldn't squeeze it in there without seeming run-on. But yes, it was a perfect summation of Bay's (lack of) skillz.

Wilson Rothman

Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD

They all become divx in the end.

strider_mt2k

Well, technically, it's not as good as it could have been. Because of this format war crap, they made concessions and bogged down a near-perfect HD action movie. They weren't able to fit Dolby True HD audio on the HD-DVD disc (which would have fit on a Blu-ray version), and this is exactly the kind of movie that you'd want in top-notch HD (who ever cared about seeing a romantic comedy in HD, anyway?). They should be able to present their technologies, take the best of it all, and decide on a final, universal format. Blu-ray has more capacity, and HD-DVD has better interactive features (for now, at least). They should just concede to the better solution. What would be have today? A faster, high-capacity universal memory card, a single OS that fixes all the crap that's wrong with anything Microsoft, Apple, or Linux offers, a cheaper production cost for whatever's built? But wait, then we, the consumers, would benefit. Where's the sense in that?

chuchi78

The most recent South Park episode summed up Bay in a nutshell...

"Those aren't ideas, those are just special effects."
"I don't understand the difference."
"I know you don't."

jrog

Format wars are amazing.

You can either have over the top space and better audio with blueray but it'll cost you.

You can have the same video quality with amazing interactive menus and a much cheaper price with HD DVD.

I also doubt companys would be giving me 5 DVD's or really cheap options if one had won already.

MarkHawk

Well everyone knows that the fact that blu-ray has that much storage space it would be the better of the 2 especially for information...

AGROS

I don't give a damn what format it's on. The fact of the matter is, that movie contains some of the best robot-on-robot ass kicking I've ever seen.

decerbo

I sense he would get paid by sony if he could persuade his company to release transformer in blu-ray.

As a director, why should he care whether it's blu-ray or hd-dvd? Can he fill up the hd-dvd disc?

Type-E

While I think a majority of his movies are fluff, I agree with him on the Blu-Ray side of things. This format war is pure B.S.

I picked a format and will buy DVDs and Blu-Rays for movies. If HD DVD wins the war, then I will only buy DVDs until I'm forced to pick another format.

chillywilly

Prime not talk like that. Grimlock talk like that.

Grimlock think that Wilson Rothman get his robots mixed up.

omg-ponies

Is this the same "critical eye" that he used on Pearl Harbor? Get it cleaned....

SchruteBuck

When his movies stop being crap I might care what he has to say.

Quattuor

i want it on blu ray too michael, i want it too.

i wanted this movie to go to both formats for the reason the last line mentioned. big named movies make for good indicators of market demand. forcing people to not have a choice just costs them money [because i'm not buying it in hd-dvd] and makes it harder to really know what the consumer wants.

jerrt

@agrajag42:

Do you know when that deal expires w/ the two free in-store movies? I haven't seen that one.

Personally, I don't care who wins this whole format thing, I just want it to be over with so I know what to buy.

jefe_37

Ok, seriously. Is there any human that can tell the difference between DD+ and the "all glorious" lossless TrueHD without measurement equipment? Lets be realistic here.

idlemind

Wasn't Spidey 3 trying to only come out on Blu-Ray initially?

GOKOR

All I know is that Transformers is one of the best summer blockbusters I've ever seen. I'm just saddened by the lack of special features on the DVD (I'm not spending the unecessary money on blu-ray or HDDVD until forced to).

GOKOR